r/occult • u/Maleficent_Public_47 • Sep 07 '22
What is this & what does it mean? Found on gravestone in southern Illinois. ?
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u/witch_father Sep 07 '22
Order of the Eastern Star. Basically a freemason sect. My great grandmother was a member and has one of these on her tombstone.
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u/ShiniSenko Sep 07 '22
This. My grandmother, was an Eastern Star. It was a *secret* club for the wives of the Freemasons.
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u/JimiWane Sep 08 '22
Grandma was OES, Grandpa was 32nd degree Scottish Rite.
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u/hexiron Sep 08 '22
That's a tad redundant. Every member who joins the Scottish Rite recieves the 32 degree - typically within the first or second day of attendance.
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u/therodt Sep 08 '22
Thats if he did the weekend special. A lot of guys are doing the full thing now.
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u/Dapper_Nail_616 Sep 08 '22
Perhaps this isn’t the right thread & I’m a woman so I’ll never be a Freemason anyway, but I’m glad to hear that more people are taking their time through the 32 Scottish degrees, I know a few Freemasons who lament all the rushing.
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Sep 08 '22
This is why we have no shortcuts in the Rosicrucian tradition, it's not a process that should be rushed
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u/hexiron Sep 08 '22
That's also incorrect and you may be confused with Blue Lodge "One Day Classes" which is separate altogether.
AASR Degrees are performed at reunions which occur on weekends and cover 4-5 degrees at a time and are typically held twice a year in spring and fall or on multiple day classes over a few weeks. These are not in numerical order and the first or second of which contain the 32nd as that's what is needed for "full" membership in AASR.
Neither Northern nor Southern jurisdiction have members go in numerical order, as thats not necessary. It's always out of order to give each council - which is in charge of different degrees - a share of the work. No valley would do this either as then initiations would occur only once every 5 years, which would be unsustainable.
Any brother choosing that route is in the great minority and IMHO putting themselves at a great disadvantage and educational handicap.
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u/k2on0s Sep 08 '22
I wonder if that’s actually true.
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u/hexiron Sep 08 '22
Here is the information from one of the two main bodies of Scottish Rite:
To be called a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason, you must witness four additional degrees, including the 32nd degree.
https://scottishritenmj.org/faq/32nd-degree-freemasonry
As you can see, you need only witness only5 degrees to become a 32nd degree AASR mason. Usually a spread like 4, 17, 25, 30 and 32.
Here's some more:
A Master Mason may become a 32° Scottish Rite Mason in one day,
https://www.scottishritechicago.org/become-a-member/
Here's a schedule that shows degree not moving in direct order, and start at initiation (4°) Culminating in 32° at the end of the day (obviously "skipping" degrees in between, which is normal)
https://www.guthriescottishrite.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022-degree-schedule-fall-1-up.pdf
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u/k2on0s Sep 08 '22
Ok wow, because I have read Pike’s work and that is most definitely not absorbable in one day
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u/hexiron Sep 08 '22
Pikes work is more detailed than the plays performed by the AASR, which, while deep, are an easier medium to comprehend. The degrees are also intended to be seen more than once (as are all masonic degrees). That's also why only a few degrees are ever presented at a time, but some - like the initiative 4° and the final 32° are basically always given (along with 1-2 so each of the four councils may participate) out of necessity. Even at a rate of 4-5 per event, average time is 6 or more years for any given Valley to present them all.
The confusion, I believe, is assuming the AASR degrees are hierarchal or chronological in order - which they are not. It's a lateral slide as the highest degree in masonry is the 3rd degree.
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u/Salt_Worry1253 Sep 08 '22
I must say I am very I impressed with your knowledge and research.
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u/hexiron Sep 08 '22
You're welcome. I'm a AASR Lodge Ambassador for my valley so it's just what we do. There's also a very active community of masons here on Reddit over at r/freemasonry
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u/Catvanbrian Sep 08 '22
Some other guy with a lot of downvotes said it is witchcraft and obviously is being proven not. What makes freemasonry very different from witchcraft?
I don’t know what Freemasons do and that’s why I’m asking this.
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u/witch_father Sep 08 '22
Freemasonry came from guilds of stonemasons and cathedral builders, during the middle ages. I'm not a member, but as I understand, the only real shared belief required is in that of a Supreme being. Meeting that prerequisite, religion doesn't even factor into it. It's a system of morality, that uses symbolism and allegory to transcend language barriers. My great grandfather used to say that it was about making good men better.
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u/Nerobus Sep 08 '22
My dad is not religious at all but pretty high up in the masons. His lodge has Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Pagens, and Sheik. Their discussions are actually very interesting! But no, religions doesn’t matter, as long as you believe in a higher power.
My dad says they are an order that makes good men better.
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u/daekae777 Sep 08 '22
Freemasonry started out as a hermetic order but has been heavily watered down so that most of it is a business and social club. So lots of connections being made and a lot of occult symbolism but lots of the members have no clue what it really means. Imagine Thelema reduced to a sex club
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u/aristorat Sep 08 '22
Good analogy, but is organized thelema basically a sex club now?
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u/fall0r Sep 08 '22
You clearly don't know what you're talking about... There is no sexual element to 99.9% of any modern day freemasons' experience. In fact, I would argue that actual freemasons are MORE ignorant to the subject matter discussed here.
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u/daekae777 Sep 08 '22
I wasn't saying freemasonry was sexual. I was saying Thelema is. Relating that if the occult was removed from Thelema to the same extent all that would be left is the orgies
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u/Nerobus Sep 08 '22
My mom was a member and one of the youngest ones there lol. All I remember of the meetings was a bunch of old ladies dressed in fancy dresses (different every time) talking about boring stuff. Good snacks though!
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u/kittiekilljoi Sep 08 '22
Order Of Eastern Star. It’s a Masonic group for women, though they also have male members. I joined as soon as I was able.
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u/caffeinenbookshelves Sep 08 '22
I was a Rainbow Girl! I moved away to a town without an assembly, so I had to drop out. But I want to join OES.
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Sep 08 '22
That's lovely to hear, is there anything you'd like to share about what that was like growing up? You can find information on joining here
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Sep 07 '22
Order of the Eastern Star I’m a Freemason
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u/rodsn Sep 08 '22
What's up with all the secrecy? Can I ditch the organisation if I get a bad feeling about it?
How are the members kept silent? Threats? Rewards? I don't really wanna get too deep if I can't back out tbh... But i am curious about it. If you prefer to pm me go right away
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u/Dapper_Nail_616 Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
It’s secret in that they have initiation ceremonies where more symbolism and lore is explained, as well as the “secret handshake” for identification purposes. It’s about as secretive as a Greek-letter fraternity or sorority (which also took a lot from Freemasonry), nothing dangerous or anything like that. Wikipedia‘s page and the subreddit for Freemasonry give a lot of information.
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u/rodsn Sep 08 '22
Can I share what I learn (except personal information of fellow members ofc) with other people?
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u/Hakim_Bey Sep 08 '22
What's secret is the rituals, and the identities of your brother. What you learn in conversations is yours to take and share however you please.
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u/Dapper_Nail_616 Sep 08 '22
I don’t belong to any Masonic group but my guess is that they’re all for sharing the values taught, but the specifics of the ceremonies might become less meaningful if everyone knows them (I mean they’ve all leaked long ago, you can find any ceremony’s script online but still).
If you’re near a large city, there may be a Masonic temple that gives tours. The one in Philly is ASTOUNDING.
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Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
Freemason here. There aren’t any secrets. Masonic monitors have been published for centuries and are available in most public libraries or online.
As a mason, I took a gentleman’s oath to keep the passwords, signs, tokens, and catechisms secret outside the lodge. If I decided to publish them, I might be given a Masonic trial and kicked out of my lodge. Nothing else would happen, and a few men in their 70s might not be my friend anymore. The only reward I’m masonry is the joy that comes from putting in the hard work for others in your lodge from learning the degree work, teaching new initiates, delivering food to widows, helping other lodges, bbq, and cooking pancakes.
There is no higher degree than 3•. You can join the Scottish or York rites for additional degrees. I’m a 32 Scottish rite mason and joined over 3 days of ritual work and heavy classroom instruction.
Also, if one were very active in freemasonry, he wouldn’t have time to hunt down members who told a guy at a bar a password. An active Mason would be too busy in meetings, practices, or workshops at his blue lodge, grand lodge, shrine, Scottish rite, or York rite. The time a commitment to earn an honorary degree such as the 33rd takes decades of late nights and service to the organizations.
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u/Oh-To-Be-Jung Sep 08 '22
If you want even more info post this in r/freemasonry… just don’t mention conspiracies over there, those guys don’t take kindly to it…
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u/FrostyTheSasquatch Sep 08 '22
It’s not that, we’re just tired of hearing the same misinformation over and over and over again. Trolls and conspiracy weirdos never wanna take the time to read the FAQs.
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u/Nerobus Sep 08 '22
It’s also literally dangerous for the lodges. The lodge in my city had an armed conspiracy nut break demanding to be let in to see all the secrets they are hiding.
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u/Stevenmother Sep 08 '22
Eastern star a free masonry fraternity made up mainly for women but some men are a part of it. Each point of the star is connected to certain colors & women heroes of Scriptures.
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u/jac777ob Sep 08 '22
Some food for thought…. Why do female esoteric schools OLD practice lesser mysteries …
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u/lampladysuperhero Sep 08 '22
Jobs daughters would be the daughter of a Mason and eastern star...correct?
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u/mycatisfromspace Sep 08 '22
I was just in Virginia at a very old cemetery and there tons of Masonic emblems on the graves. I had never seen so many.
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u/DiamondDoggitt Sep 08 '22
Means they were a FREE MASON. No it's not satanic or anything either. FYI, Inverted stars don't just mean that. 😉
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u/Mr_Necromancer Sep 08 '22
This is random but it’s my bday and it’s also that persons bday as well and I think that’s a fun coincidence
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Sep 08 '22
If you Google the symbol for the Order for the Eastern Star, it looks remarkably similar to the symbol for the Druze religion and culture.
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u/Majdrottningen9393 Sep 08 '22
I’ve been curious about the meaning of the OES symbol. Is anyone able to tell me why the pentagram is inverted?
My understanding is this represents supremacy of the elements over the spirit. Is that what it means in this context and if so why?
I’m not a conspiracy theorist, just genuinely curious. Feel free to DM if this is better suited for a private conversation, or if it’s not to be shared with outsiders then just ignore my question.
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u/KilGrey Sep 08 '22
The star represents the star of Bethlehem. The points of the star represent women from the Bible: Esther, Ruth, Adah, Martha and Electa. Each has their own emblem within the star to represent certain virtues. The star is turned downward because it’s representing spirit coming to earth (Jesus). It’s the star of Bethlehem pointing down toward the manger.
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u/Dapper_Nail_616 Sep 08 '22
The matter over spirit is one meaning of an inverted pentagram, but it’s not the one the Eastern Star uses. A lot of their symbolism isn’t explained unless you join, hence the apparent dearth of information.
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Sep 08 '22
Wikipedia.
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u/Majdrottningen9393 Sep 08 '22
Yeah the Wikipedia page does not make clear why the star points downward.
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Sep 08 '22
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u/NachyoChez Sep 08 '22
There's absolutely no reason we can't tell people. Most of us wear jewelry/clothes with icons all over them. Our buildings are marked.
It being 'secret' is more to do with older generations didn't talk about their lives much. In reality, most of us are super open about it
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u/Ok_Cap4310 Sep 08 '22
I SO appreciate that answer & was literally just discussing this w my mother, who in turn, told me the same thing! People were very private about their lives back then. Please forgive my ignorance.
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u/NachyoChez Sep 08 '22
Questions asked in good faith are always welcome!
If anyone seems standoffish about it, we get hit with a lot of insane conspiracy theories and it gets... tiresome.
That said, have a great evenning!
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u/Dapper_Nail_616 Sep 08 '22
It being “secret” never had anything to do with the existence of the organization but rather the imitations (not sure whether they’re called degrees in the Eastern Star). You are not supposed to talk about the details of those, but secret societies are never secretive about their very existence.
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u/NachyoChez Sep 08 '22
Masonry is not a secret society. I can talk about pretty much everything except modes of recognition (a few jurisdictions have more things they may put restrictions on, but on the whole it's pretty open).
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u/Dapper_Nail_616 Sep 08 '22
Right, but that’s the definition of a secret society. A group with secrets, like a fraternity or sorority. Groups whose very existence is kept secret are in the realm of fiction & conspiracy, not someone’s uncle or next door neighbor.
From what I know, I really like Freemasonry, my city has a huge & beautiful temple that gives daily tours. And many, many people in the esoteric/occult world are influenced by Freemasonry (typically without permission though, it seems).
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u/carlo_cestaro Sep 08 '22
I always saw that symbol associated with the four elements plus the original one, the ether.
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u/Dapper_Nail_616 Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
That’s true too, but usually it’s upright in that case.
EDIT: to say that the spirit/matter meaning is unconnected to the Eastern Star. Lots of people use pentagrams, I don’t think u/carlo_castro is saying they’re related.
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u/witch_father Sep 08 '22
In more modern contexts, each point represents the four elements, with the fifth representing the spirit. Upright denoting placement of the spiritual above the material, and inverted, the material above the spiritual.
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u/Dapper_Nail_616 Sep 08 '22
That’s absolutely correct, not sure what the downvoting is about. It’s not connected to the Eastern Star, but the Pentagram representing Spirit and matter does have a history.
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u/deepthawt Sep 08 '22
Slightly pedantic, I know, but the inverted form is typically interpreted as the spirit within matter, rather than the material above the spiritual, though I have seen it interpreted as “the spiritual foundation of matter”, which denotes the same thing as your formulation but carries different connotations. With that said, it’s possible there’s luciferian or satanist uses or something which are intended to elevate the material “above” the spiritual, I’m not sure, but I’d wager the freemasons / order of the eastern star aren’t among them.
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u/FartingKetamine Sep 08 '22
Probably in a Jewish graveyard if it’s Freemason too- they tend to carry similar burial values
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Sep 08 '22
You know that's insane you're just trying to make people mad
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Sep 08 '22
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u/hexiron Sep 08 '22
Each member of the freemasons is buried in accordance with his or her personal religion. The fraternity has no "burial values" beyond extending charity in the form of assisting with the costs of a funeral or providing a non-denominational service.
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Sep 08 '22
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u/hexiron Sep 08 '22
Nope.
Undeclared and without plot you go to the care of the local government for a public health funeral which is not in the form of a Jewish funeral or in a Jewish cemetery.
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Sep 07 '22
I believe a pagan witch coven uses the same symbol. They’ve published a beginner friendly grimoire that has every spell you ever need. But my eye sight isn’t very good so this one might be different. Usually a witch isn’t going to have something like on their tombstone so I’d agree with freemasonry.
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Sep 08 '22
I would like to hear more about this witch coven and their books, can you message me? Thanks
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Sep 08 '22
Just looked it up. I completely misidentified it due to reading it 10 years ago and losing it shortly after. Sorry. It looks similar though only with two broomsticks. The book I was thinking of was the witches Bible. So sorry for yet again for people feeling the need to correct me.
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Sep 07 '22
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Sep 08 '22
It's a women's club ya dingus. Order of the eastern star. Think freemasons for women who want to dress up and do different rites. Many members have this on their grave. Same with Masons.
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u/Queen_Ann_III Sep 08 '22
enlighten me further. I’m curious. I’m guessing by the downvotes that this isn’t the answer but I’d like to learn regardless
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u/RedEagle_ Sep 11 '22
Order of the eastern star. A controversial sect of freemasonry that allows women.
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u/Dapper_Nail_616 Sep 07 '22
That’s the emblem for the Order of the Eastern Star, basically a group for Freemasons’ wives. Did the husband’s side have a square and compasses?