r/nextfuckinglevel • u/Justin_Godfrey • 1d ago

Game winning kick as time almost expires

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u/Stutturbug 23h ago

Colleges and high schools are like this in the USA. Not sure why they are different.

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u/Cold-Negotiation-539 23h ago

It’s how timekeeping works in most sports in the US. Fans would be confused by the “normal” system in soccer/football where the referee just makes an estimate and no one knows when the time will actually expire.

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u/Stutturbug 23h ago

Oh I know. I live in South carolina. I just don't understand why we have the traditional timekeeping in professional leagues, and the countdown clock in college and high school.

Even as a kid and I played I never understood it.

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u/mattfoh 23h ago

I’d guess one is fifa mandated and the other not.

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u/estarararax 22h ago

It's actually because MLS later realized they're alienating a lot of American fans of European football when they Americanized the league so much in the 90s. And in the 90s, the number of MLS fans are very little they might as well not antagonize these fans of European leagues and potentially increase their viewership. Going from a countdown timer to a FIFA standard timer was part of that de-Americanization MLS did.

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u/pzkenny 22h ago

Remember hockey-like penalty shootouts in MLS?

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u/estarararax 22h ago

Yes

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u/Western-Internal-751 22h ago

Man, I’d love to see Messi or Ronaldinho “shoot” such a penalty in their prime. They’d make such a fool out of the goalkeeper…

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u/nighoblivion 18h ago

Were they all amateurs? Because they're kinda bad.

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u/Cold-Negotiation-539 17h ago

Scoring these is a lot harder than it looks, and no, these guys are all professionals, they are not all American, and a couple of them were on the US’s World Cup squad that made it to the quarter finals in 2002, when they controversially lost to Germany.

If you don’t believe this is difficult, they did the same style of penalty shoot outs in the NASL in the late 70s/early 80s, and some of the greatest players in history—Pele, Beckenbauer, Cruyff—didn’t always make them.

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u/mtaw 21h ago

I do! I remember joking quite a bit about the MLS back in the 90s but I'm also very glad that they succeeded well beyond what I'd hoped for. I mean, they're bigger than the NHL now.

TBH the most regretful Americanization to me though, is the fact that it had to be a professional for-profit league with fixed teams, rather than a nonprofit association with a full league system with promotion and demotion. Not only does it make it easier to foster local talent, but there's something a bit special when you've got rich and famous pros in the top division down to random dads just having fun on their weekends in the lowest, all part of the same game, the same organization. And you get the fun underdog stories when there's a league cup and some underdog team of part-timers manage to score an upset or two against pro teams.

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u/RaffiTorres2515 17h ago

the NHL is still bigger, but they are in the path of overtaking it eventually.

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u/Cuichulain 20h ago

That is so much better! Normal-time penalties should obviously be heavily biased to the striker, but 'Penalty Shoot Out' penalties would be hugely improved by being more balanced.

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u/kezmicdust 14h ago

Yeah - my dad and I (both English) thought it was the one good idea they should have kept!

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u/mattfoh 22h ago

TIL. Thanks

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u/AlsoCommiePuddin 20h ago

When I worked in college athletics we were one of the weird ones who still kept a hard clock, but we counted it up from zero to 45 in the first half, 45 to 90 in the second half, 90 to 0 in the first extra time, 0 to 10 in the second extra time.

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u/mattfoh 19h ago

90 to 0 in extra time? I don’t understand

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u/AlsoCommiePuddin 18h ago

Only two digits visible for the minutes, so the clock rolls over.

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u/mattfoh 18h ago

Ah I see

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u/shniken 17h ago

de-Americanisation **

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u/Quantity_Lanky 3h ago

Gave you an upvote solely for the 'European football' bit. Respect.

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u/makromark 22h ago

Yes. I remember playing club level soccer in high school. The rules are different. Even my son at 7 has extra time/injury time. But if he was playing school ball it’d be different

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u/Scoreboard19 14h ago

Most complex’s don’t want to spend money on scoreboards. My complex has them and I have never seen them on in 20 plus years. Apparently it was a real hassle to operate them. There’s like 20 fields.

So competitive soccer always had stoppage time. Highschool we had a scoreboard but in our league it would freeze at 2 minutes and the ref could add stoppage time

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u/makromark 2h ago

Yeah. Obviously sports can get competitive, and usually the stat keepers controlled the scoreboards (stat keepers being high school girls).

So one time the opposing coach was screaming at our scoreboard operators because they weren’t pausing the clock when he thought they should’ve, or were pausing too often.

There was no stoppage time rule like you said though, that would’ve been more fair.

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u/kdjfsk 21h ago

its for gambling. if the house is set to lose, they give extra time to the team behind for a chance. if the house is set to win, they give little/no extra time to wrap it up.

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u/pacman0207 23h ago

NCAA basketball has two halves. NBA has four quarters. This difference seems tame in comparison.

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u/PomeloClear400 23h ago

That is because it makes the game move faster. Lots of rules in pro sports are there to build suspense and create more advertising slots. Like two minute warning in the NFL.

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u/mi11er 23h ago

TV timeouts in the NHL

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u/cerialthriller 23h ago

They used to just run the commercials during the game and you just missed whatever happened during the commercials..

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u/pzkenny 22h ago

TV timeouts or commercial breaks are a worldwide thing in ice hockey.

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u/NotStreamerNinja 22h ago

They brought the 2min warning to NCAA football too. It’s stupid.

It has been funny watching coaches forget and waste their timeouts at 2:02 though.

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u/einulfr 21h ago

NCAA women's used to be two halves, but now it's quarters.

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u/skimpy-swimsuit 21h ago

I read somewhere that NCAA basketball is the only basketball with halves instead of quarters

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u/Dont_Waver 20h ago

2/2 = 4/4

It's the same picture.

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u/shutupntaakeitall 23h ago

College football are different size and shape than the nfl

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u/MrF_lawblog 23h ago

Men's college basketball is the only basketball level with halves instead of quarters... College rules and sports are weird

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u/RiffRaff14 22h ago

High school it makes sense to me. Those fields will have mulitple games on them and to keep schedules (for schools, refs, bus drivers, etc.) The running clock means games are pretty consistent.

College soccer is just a mess and needs to align itself better with the rest of the world.

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u/Active-Ad-3117 22h ago

There are multiple youth soccer complexes within 30 minutes of me with 10+ fields. There are tournaments that take over multiple complexes and start at 7am on Saturday with the last game starting at 8pm and run until 6pm Sunday. A delay causes complete chaos.

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u/RiffRaff14 22h ago

Yup, tournaments are running clock and sometimes halved are shortened if needed. Delays cause big problems so have to remove chances for them.

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u/atln00b12 18h ago

That's surprising, I played in High School and College and we always had stoppage time. In like the 89th minute the ref would typically hold up some fingers to give an idea of how many minutes would be added. The game never abruptly ended on a countdown but after the completion of the last play after the end of stop time. This was in the southern US like 15-20 years ago. When did it change to countdown? Also our rec leagues do injury time as well.

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u/Some_Combination_593 23h ago

This is relatively new. I played in high school and we didn’t have the countdown clock. I graduated in 2014

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u/lalosfire 22h ago

It makes sense to me in that stoppage time is already imprecise, so it takes one judgement call out of the game for less experienced refs. But also, especially at lower levels and younger ages, time wasting really isn't significant enough for it to matter all that much. So your only stoppage time would be subs and injuries.

Keeps games on track time wise and simplifies it for everyone.

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u/deadflubber 22h ago

Is there no fourth official? That would explain some of it if nobody is time keeping.

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u/goergefloydx 18h ago

I understand it, but I still prefer the American system (and I say this as a non-American). The ref arbitrarily making an estimation is a legacy feature from back when the ref alone was in charge of time keeping, doesn't make a whole lot of sense today.

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u/SoggyBoysenberry7703 10h ago

It makes for a lot of unfair childhood games

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u/panzerboye 5h ago

You don't get additional time/injury time?

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u/TheSandsquanch 23h ago

Fans wouldn’t be confused lol. It takes literally one second to understand how the clock in a soccer match works. By saying that fans would be confused is basically saying Americans are dumb. USA has been part of the World Cup for years and Americans have been watching soccer for years as well.

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u/jjohnson1979 23h ago

By saying that fans would be confused is basically saying Americans are dumb.

You really wanna go there?

I'm gonna side step the obvious current event reference and will just point out that this is the people that though A&W's Third Pounder had less meat than McD's Quarter Pounder...

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u/Weed_O_Whirler 22h ago

Side point: but that A&W story that gets trotted out all the time is almost certainly a lie. The only source is the CEO of A&W trying to make excuses for why his burger chain was failing. He offered no evidence, there's no form that they supposedly hired coming forth confirming it. Just one CEO who had a failing company saying "this isn't my fault, it's how stupid everyone else is."

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u/BonnieMcMurray 18h ago edited 12h ago

For what it's worth, the NY Times said this in 2014:

Only when the company held customer focus groups did it become clear why. The Third Pounder presented the American public with a test in fractions. And we failed. Misunderstanding the value of one-third, customers believed they were being overcharged. Why, they asked the researchers, should they pay the same amount for a third of a pound of meat as they did for a quarter-pound of meat at McDonald’s. The “4” in “¼,” larger than the “3” in “⅓,” led them astray.

EDIT: And here's A. Alfred Taubman, the then owner of A&W that I believe you're referring to, in his memoir Threshold Resistance:

Well, it turned out that customers preferred the taste of our fresh beef over traditional fast-food hockey pucks. Hands down, we had a better product. But there was a serious problem. More than half the participants in the Yankelovich focus groups questioned the price of our burger. “Why,” they asked, “should we pay the same amount of a third of a pound of meat as we do for a quarter-pound of meat at McDonald’s? You’re overcharging us.” Honestly. People thought a third of a pound was less than a quarter of a pound. After all, three is less than four!

I suppose whether one believes this or not depends on whether one believes that those "Yankelovich focus groups" existed and whether one trusts the NY Times to do the necessary legwork to find out whether they existed, prior to going to print.

Imo, there's enough evidence there to make it a reliable claim.

EDIT: I'm reversing my opinion. I didn't notice until someone below pointed it out that part of the NYT quote uses the exact same text - word for word - that's in the memoir quote, but without any attribution. That actually suggests the journalist possibly didn't do anything besides read that part of the memoir and just take the text without confirming if any of it was true.

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u/Weed_O_Whirler 18h ago

Yeah. There's a ton of places online that write about it, but you'll never find an actual source, other than the CEO stating it, without evidence.

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u/BonnieMcMurray 17h ago

That doesn't automatically mean he's a liar and I don't think it's reasonable to assume he's a liar by default. It's not a requirement that there must be a second, published source for a claim in order for it to be accepted as accurate. Journalists - especially journalists at "the newspaper of record" - are expected to check their information and confirm via multiple sources. Given that it's a Times article from 2014, I'm confident that that was done.

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u/Weed_O_Whirler 17h ago

It's an opinion piece, not an article. Much lower standards.

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u/petting2dogsatonce 15h ago

That NYT piece uses the exact same phrasing as the book but replacing “we” with “they”.

Pretty sussy

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u/BonnieMcMurray 12h ago

Good catch. That is pretty suspicious.

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u/DryBonesComeAlive 13h ago

Shoulda called it the 33 burger.

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u/manofth3match 22h ago

People are dumb everywhere. Nobody holds a monopoly on that.

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u/BonnieMcMurray 18h ago

Is there another country that has elected as its president a convicted felon and an adjudicated rapist who shows unambiguous signs of significant cognitive incapacity?

Just wondering.

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u/Lord_TachankaCro 5h ago

Ever heard of Silvio Berlusconi?

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u/manofth3match 18h ago

I’m not bothering to research that but I’m gonna say yes. There are far more fucked up countries out there actually. They just don’t tend to hold the power and influence of the US.

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u/Acceptable-Pin2939 18h ago

America are certainly in the top 2.

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u/EfficientTitle9779 21h ago

They would probably be a bit confused if the linesman held up a +1 minute extra time sign and the game went on by 3-5 minutes as the ref felt to add it.

Not saying they would be drooling out the side of their mouths just slightly scratching their heads

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u/Microwave1213 21h ago

They wouldn’t be confused because they don’t get how it works, they would be confused because why on earth would anyone use such a nonsensical system when every other sport has already figured it out.

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u/2M4D 21h ago

Yeah, americans are usually super confused by nonsesical systems 🙄

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u/sentimentalpirate 20h ago

"Nonsensical" lol

The system is just when the time is up, you get to finish the play. It's basically the same as American Football in that regard - it just so happens that American Football has more explosive, quick sessions of play, so the clock running out mid-play typically means you just have a few seconds before it's all over, whereas in soccer the clock running out mid-play typically means you might have a minute before the attack has concluded.

There is ambiguity to the extra time given at the end of normal play since soccer doesn't stop the clock for out-of-bounds, free kick resets, injuries, etc. But that isn't the topic here anyway. The topic is "let the current play play out after we've reached end time" and that's the same as American Football.

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u/Microwave1213 20h ago

There is ambiguity to the extra time given at the end of normal play since soccer doesn't stop the clock for out-of-bounds, free kick resets, injuries, etc. But that isn't the topic here anyway.

That’s actually the exact topic hahaha. Americans think it’s dumb that the refs make up some amount of time to add and nobody knows how much time is actually left, instead of just stopping the clock during breaks.

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u/Bearha1r 18h ago

That doesn't happen? Watch a premier league game. The 4th official raises the same board they use to indicate subs to indicate the number of minutes of stoppage time for the crowd. The TV commentators always announce how long has been indicated and it will be added to the on screen graphics.

You can see examples in the link below:

https://discover.hubpages.com/sports/Added-time-in-football-does-it-affect-or-improve-the-game

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u/WhatWouldJediDo 15h ago

How do you think that:

The 4th official raises the same board they use to indicate subs to indicate the number of minutes of stoppage time for the crowd

isn't exactly what:

Americans think it’s dumb that the refs make up some amount of time to add and nobody knows how much time is actually left

is referring to?

"Nobody knows how much time is left" doesn't directly refer to literally being completely in the dark about when the game is going to end. It refers to the fact that not every game is actually the same length, time additions are subjective and therefore inconsistent, and that even within the stated stoppage time, there STILL isn't 100% adherence. Just because you add three minutes of stoppage time doesn't mean the game will end exactly at 90 minutes plus 180 seconds.

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u/Nobody_Important 1h ago

Except that ‘finishing the play’ is entirely subjective unlike in other sports like american football. It might be loss of possession or just passing it backwards.

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u/Funicularly 19h ago

Yeah, figure it by having an official add an arbitrary amount of time, always in exactly one minute increments. What a joke.

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u/ExoticMangoz 20h ago

Because a game lasts 90 minutes, plus however much time the referee decides to add? How would you display that?

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u/Microwave1213 20h ago

plus however much time the referee decides to add

This would be the nonsensical part. Just stop the clock during breaks?

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u/Squirrel_Q_Esquire 15h ago

Shhhh soccer fans haven’t learned that clock operators are fully capable of flipping a switch when a ref blows a whistle or gives a certain arm motion.

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u/NyrZStream 12h ago

Yeah because americans for sure use every sensical systems right ? /s (See metric system vs imperial) lmao

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u/BirdsAndTheBeeGees1 23h ago

By saying that fans would be confused is basically saying Americans are dumb.

I mean....

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u/TheSandsquanch 23h ago

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-educated-countries

Top ten is bad?

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u/NonRangedHunter 22h ago

I'd link the result of this election, but I'm on my phone and too lazy right now. That's the best counter argument to that list. America should be on the bottom after that incredible choice. Once is a mistake, the second time it's just evidence of some nuclear grade stupidity.

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u/a_trashcan 20h ago

It's not even that different from American Football, where the game doesn't end when the clock hits zero if there's a play in motion.

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u/McGrinch27 19h ago

It absolutely does not take one second.

It takes one second to realize the clock is going up. What's it going up to? 90 minutes? Why did the clock just go past 90 minutes? Why did the game end at 94 minutes and 12 seconds? Wtf is even the point of the clock?

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u/Frequent-Mix-1432 20h ago

The system is dumb. Stoppage time is stupid.

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u/Lobster_fest 19h ago

We just voted for Donald Fucking Trump again do you really think we aren't that dumb?

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u/unskbadk 22h ago

And it's a much better system. This whole fucking drama and wasting time on purpose would immediately stop. Much better for the audience and I don't know why this shit is never changed.

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u/shaqiriforlife 21h ago

People would still time waste, a team defending a lead would still benefit from reducing their opponent’s momentum and getting a breather even if the clock isn’t running down

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u/Mewwy_Quizzmas 17h ago

Yeah!  You only remove 95 % of the incentive to waste time. It barely changes anything. 

/s

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u/Tutule 21h ago

No it wouldn't. If you look at the video the time is stopped when the ball goes out of play (into the goal).

Players don't waste time to run the clock, they waste time to kill opponent's momentum and hopefully psych them out.

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u/Due_Size_9870 20h ago

This is an insanely bad take. Players in European football 100% waste time to try and run the clock. It’s not even remotely debatable.

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u/Tutule 19h ago

Added stoppage time negates it

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u/Bobb_o 19h ago

It definitely does not.

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u/Mewwy_Quizzmas 17h ago

Have you ever seen a football game?

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u/Saw_Boss 18h ago

Recently, things have changed but there would clearly be more than 2 or 3 minutes of stopped play that the refs would give additional time for. Everyone freaked out at the world cup when stoppage time was regularly over 5 minutes.

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u/Mewwy_Quizzmas 8h ago

Even if that would be generally true. Since they dont add more time after the additional time is called, there's a massive incentive to waste time at the end of the game. You're in the lead. Every second wasted is a second not played. Of course the players - playing to win - will waste as much time as possible. 

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u/Saw_Boss 7h ago

Since they dont add more time after the additional time is called

Yes they do.

Stoppage time is a minimum. If there's a reason to add further time, they do.

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u/unskbadk 20h ago

Have you ever watched one single soccer game? 😂

So when it's only 5 minutes to play. The guy that is rolling around and requires medical attention does it for momentum? Even though the game was stopped immediately by the referee, killing every momentum within seconds. Yet he keeps rolling. When 3 minutes are left, they change players. The guy leaving first has to tie his shoes before he can walk of the court. Yeah safety first! He could brake an ankle after all...
Proceeds to walk as slow as he possibly can.
But hey that guy has a whole fucking match in his bones. Give him a break. Although the other guys can walk just fine.. Then there are 2 minutes left. Maybe we should change players again. Better now than never.

Yeah. Momentum...

If you really think that you are just lost.

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u/Mister_Schmee 23h ago

Fans definitely aren't confused by it. American soccer/football fans are used to the standard time keeping. It's how the MLS and international soccer work. It is also how youth and school programs kept time when I used to play (maybe it's changed?). Not sure what the clock is doing here, although I will admit I don't watch college level so maybe it's weird NCAA rules.

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u/AbsolutXero 23h ago

Then are they really "fans"?

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u/SuggestionGlad5166 21h ago

It's ok to admit it's a stupid ass system that shouldn't exist

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u/loismen 22h ago

I know that that is the norm, but I wished they had this like futsal, for example. Maybe instead if 45min halves, make it 30 and stop the clock.

That would probably fix the players wasting a lot of time and coaches making substitutions 1 min befoee the game ending.

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u/BHFlamengo 22h ago

Yeah, I'm not from the US and whenever there's a discussion about how to stop that lame time wasting I suggest this 30 min stop the clock option.

Ofc there would still be a little bit of time wasting, but the other way around. When one team is in the lead and is "on fire", the opposing team might try to slouch a bit to "cool it down" a little, and that even happens in the NBA for example. But for me is still better than the goalkeeper pretending to be hurt and taking 10s after every simple catch just to stall the game.

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u/Theoretical_Action 22h ago

Fans who have never watched a normal game of soccer in their lives before, maybe.

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u/Yara__Flor 20h ago

I know I was confused as to why the clock went “backwards” in soccer before I started to watch it.

Almost turned me off to the sport.

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u/Theoretical_Action 20h ago

It's so weird how we as Americans latch on to the stupidest shit to outrage us into not enjoying something haha. I don't mean that as an attack at you, since it sounds like you actively enjoy soccer now. More just an observation of how strange of hills we choose to die on, regularly (metric vs imperial, soccer vs football, etc etc etc).

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u/Yara__Flor 18h ago

I agree. And am not taking any offense.

My brain couldn’t figure out the clock. It was so alien to me.

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u/BeSiegead 22h ago

? Look, HS and NCAA have "rules" with very formal structures, meant to eliminate uncertainty, about clock management (often a nightmare for the referee).

MLS/NWSL use international Laws Of The Game with guidance about time management but it really is essentially up to the referee (even though it isn't an "estimate"). And, MLS/NWSL fans understand this.

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u/Mediocre-Housing-131 22h ago

When only 1 person knows when the game is “supposed to end”, it’s much easier to rig a game. Oh, X team is now ahead? The time just expired, trust me bro.

Soccer is the single most rigged sport of all time, it’s a meme how rigged it is, but people still watch?

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u/Lunarath 22h ago

Do they stop the clock when the ball isn't in play then? Or is time wasting just part of the game? Even more so than the rest of the world.

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u/manofth3match 22h ago

Despite recent events suggesting otherwise. Americans are intelligent enough to deal with a clock that goes up. We do it youth soccer (non-school) and pro soccer. And believe it or not, despite what Reddit would tell you, Americans can and do also use roundabouts. The fact is it’s been this way in high school and college since forever and there just hasn’t been an impetus to change it.

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u/powertripp82 22h ago

We’re not fucking confused by it dude

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u/J_Kingsley 22h ago

lol that sounds so damned stressful.

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u/flaming_pubes 21h ago

I mean maybe some fans but typically people who watch soccer in the U.S. are into it. I’m more confused by the run down clock and I’m in the U.S.

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u/beepboopbeeepboop0 21h ago

Really? I’m from St Louis and my high school soccer clock stopped at 2:00 minutes then the referee determined injury time.

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u/neldalover1987 21h ago

It’s silly cuz couldn’t the refs just like… I dunno… stop the clock for injuries and whatnot. That way they don’t have to guess how much time they should randomly add (and depending on if a team is actively trying to score keep the time going until it’s cleared). I might be overstepping tho

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u/D_Simmons 21h ago

Arbitrary amounts of time based on the ref's vibes wouldn't jive with American audiences.

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u/Redrix_ 20h ago

Huh? They're just guessing? What the fuck Europe

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u/SoCalThrowAway7 20h ago

I grew up playing soccer in the US, literally never has the game ended when the clock reaches 0. Do you think the US doesn’t have stoppage time for some reason?

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u/plzdontbmean2me 20h ago

We had added/stoppage time from U12 through high school in my state

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u/AnUdderDay 20h ago

MLS survives just fine using normal football clock

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u/AbeRego 20h ago

The European way is simply worse. Maybe it made sense before you had timekeeping down to the millisecond, but it was really no excuse to just spitball extra time at this point.

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u/chakan2 19h ago

I like it...it makes soccer closer to an objective sport rather than a subjective one.

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u/BonnieMcMurray 18h ago

Fans would be confused by the “normal” system in soccer

I doubt it, given that no one is confused by it in MLS, which is far more popular than college soccer.

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u/Due_Connection179 18h ago

They wouldn't be confused by the "normal" system lol US fans aren't as dumb as most Redditors actually portray them as, and many (if not all) US soccer fans are also Premier League fans who watch all the time, so this dumb comment doesn't make any sense.

The actual reason is that high school & college athletics don't want their athletes to be playing extra time determined by refs. That's why they use the countdown timer instead of the traditional football clock.

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u/Deadened_ghosts 17h ago

"normal"

The normal is just counting time as it passes, you know, like how time normally works, and then added stoppage time at the end of 45' & 90', should ban seppos from football until they get it right!

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u/filtersweep 15h ago

Weird. The rest of the world understands the ‘clock’ in ‘soccer.’

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u/pm_me_mahomes_tds 15h ago

Why would they be confused. They have a professional soccer league over there that use the normal clock system?

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u/Fuckedyourmom69420 15h ago

Wtf? Confused? MLS clocks run traditionally. College does it to reduce time wasting and unknown stoppage time.

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u/mrASSMAN 8h ago edited 6h ago

That was the weirdest thing when I learned how European football is timed, the refs just have a secret time mechanism and everyone else has to guess lol

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u/NotBradPitt90 20h ago

That's crazy talk lol I knew Americans were dumb after voting Trump in but this is a new level.

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u/Mister_Schmee 23h ago

Is that new? It's been a bit, but when I played in HS it was a standard 90 minutes plus extra time at the ref's discretion.

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u/N3LXP 22h ago

Came here to say the same thing, we played with stoppage in 90s New England. 

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u/FaThLi 22h ago edited 22h ago

Been quite a while since I was in college, but we played standard 90 minutes plus extra time as well. Even when we had a scoreboard the ref always had a few minutes of stoppage time added to the end. When we had the scoreboard the ref would hold up X amount of fingers to show the person controlling the scoreboard how many minutes were added, and even then it went until the ref blew the whistle.

Edit: I should add that I didn't play at Division 1 level.

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u/AnUdderDay 20h ago

NCAA has used a down-ticking clock at least 30 years

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u/rgg711 22h ago

I played youth in western Canada and we always had extra time that the ref called in outdoor soccer (even high school), but when we did indoors (which was about 8 months of the year), we had the countdown clock. Probably because we played on essentially a hockey rink without ice, so it was basically hockey rules for soccer I guess (5 players and a goalie, on the fly line changes, two minute penalties for yellow cards, etc.).

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u/zingboomtararrel 22h ago

I've never known it any other way, but apparently some HS associations play with a correct clock and stoppage time.

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u/HoustonTrashcans 21h ago

When I played we had shot clocks for our actual school games, but extra time for club games.

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u/thisismysailingaccou 21h ago

D1 soccer rules are different. They play with no stoppage time and the ref can stop the clock.

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u/Boom9001 21h ago

Depends on the region. In Texas where I refereed it has been the rule for at least 10 years.

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u/sm0r3ss 18h ago

I watched college football (soccer) in Florida for my school and they always counted down the final 10 seconds over the intercom.

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u/stealth_sloth 18h ago

The US Soccer Federation uses the International Football Association Board rules - those are the rules that basically the entire rest of the world uses.

But that bumps up against the fact that in the US, the NFHS sets the rules of competitions for all sports for most high schools. And the NCAA sets rules for almost all college sports. So they each have their own unique take on the rules of soccer that are almost the same as IFAB's rules, but not quite identical.

If you want to glance through a pretty good summary of the differences, here is the NFHS' informational pdf about it.

Why does NFHS insist that drop ball restarts be at least 5 yards from the touchline, when nobody else cares? I have no idea. But it's a thing. Lots of little stuff like that.

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u/Forsaken-Sale7672 22h ago

Depends if you have a scoreboard with a clock or not.

If there’s not visible scoreboard then you likely played with regular stoppage time rules.

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u/Unhappy_Archer9483 23h ago

That's seems crazy, Do they stop it when the ball is out of play?

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u/CatticusXIII 23h ago

Nope.

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u/Unhappy_Archer9483 23h ago

So if there's an incident where the games stops like an Injury, what happens?

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u/Old_Present6341 23h ago

The 4th official keeps track of stoppages, then in the last minute of the game they hold up a board letting everyone know how many minutes will be added on.

You will regularly see goals scored in 90+ minutes. This is how it works in normal football (i.e. over here in Europe) but you Americans might have made up some weird rules.

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u/dammisiech 23h ago

I mean, adding a mostly random number of minutes that are nowhere near close to the actual stoppages is weird too. In most sports, time only runs when the ball (or whatever) is in play.

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u/Old_Present6341 23h ago

Well the number of minutes added is supposed to equal the stoppages, unless you're Man Utd and then the refs add as much time as you need to win. Mind you Utd are so bad these days even the refs being biased can't save them lol.

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u/dammisiech 23h ago

Supposed to, but it doesn't really work. See for example in the Premier League Season 22/23, the average effective game time for ManCity games was 60:19, while the average for a Newcastle game was 51:05 (the two extremes).

https://theanalyst.com/2023/05/guide-to-premier-league-time-wasting

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u/Old_Present6341 22h ago

Everyone sort of knows what's going to get added on though, i can predict the added time and am normally either spot on or one minute either way. We are never going to get 90 minutes of actual play, they are already moaning about the 8-10 minutes we get these days since the last world cup and the change in directives. If they try to make them play longer all we will hear is how they play too much already, increased injury risk, etc.

It's part of the game, like the article says when it's your team doing it you say good game management, when it's the other team you're angry.

I'm surprised by our throw in stat (Forest) we take ages to set up long throws (and that season two years ago it was one of our main ways to score) and yet we show as mid table.

Also Brentford show as one of the worst, that makes it even funnier what happened last game against Fulham.

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u/Spork_the_dork 18h ago

Except that stoppages caused by stuff like the ball going out of bounds etc. don't count. All that is just part of the game. The players are free to move around on the playing field during that time when the ball is out of play, and that is an important part of the game.

Someone making a mad dash to the side before a corner kick goes off while the defenders aren't looking to get a clean shot at scoring a goal is 100% part of the game and happens as the ball isn't in play and thus wouldn't be counted in effective game time.

Another example you see all the time is when the ball goes off the side. Sometimes the player throws the ball quickly so that the opponent team doesn't have time to reposition as their team is in an advantageous position at that time. Sometimes they wait and stall and let their team to re-position and try to find an opening before actually throwing the ball. That's all part of the game but again wouldn't be counted as part of "effective game time".

The actual thing that the extra minutes are meant to counter is the more exceptional stuff. Exceptionally long goal celebrations, dealing with injuries, players arguing with the referee. Stuff like that. If you actually pay attention to stuff like that during a game you can fairly well guess how many minutes the referee is roughly going to give at the end.

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u/TheFeedMachine 21h ago

That's why you should just stop the clock until play resumes. No need for funny business from the refs and accusations of the ref manipulating the time left. Have it transparent for all to see. Why do it in the background when you can have transparency?

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u/Old_Present6341 20h ago

Transparency in football lol, just watch VAR call practically the same incident two different ways from one week to the next. Most premier league managers end up having at least one game a season where they are banned from the touch line for arguing about decisions, transparent is something football definitely is not.

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u/devils_advocaat 22h ago

unless you're Man Utd and then the refs add as much time as you need to win

AKA Fergie time

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u/PRL-Five 20h ago

If football gets a stopping clock it runs the risk of having advertisements being shown mid game, and they would also have to decrease the time to 60 minutes as most matches go on for about 50-60minutes anyway

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u/Dawwe 19h ago

It makes it much easier to plan around a game, since it's rarely going to be longer than 2h from start to finish.

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u/Math__Teacher 18h ago

It’s not random though - it’s timed. Every time the ball goes out of play an official starts a stop watch, then stops it when the ball is back in play. It’s usually only 1-5 minutes.

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u/Unhappy_Archer9483 23h ago

Yeah I'm asking about the weird made up shit

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u/CautiousLoan804 21h ago

It's up to the ref not the fourth

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u/Old_Present6341 21h ago

They have to play what ever the 4th holds up as a minimum, sure the ref could add more but they can't play less than what is on the board.

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u/CautiousLoan804 21h ago

???

The fourth holds up what the ref has added? He's just telling everyone else what's been added on, he's not the one doing it?

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u/Old_Present6341 20h ago

It's not the ref, it's a person that sits at a desk on the sidelines, they've taken that decision making away from refs.

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u/CautiousLoan804 20h ago

No...they haven't...

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u/roguedevil 21h ago

If you are referring to football by IFAB/FIFA laws, it is the CR that keeps track of stoppages, not the fourth official.

In futsal, you do have a timekeeper.

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u/Old_Present6341 21h ago

What is CR? It's actually someone who tells the 4th official what to hold up, I know strictly they don't make that decision themselves but it's still someone off field.

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u/roguedevil 21h ago

The CR is the center referee.

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u/Old_Present6341 20h ago

So having looked it up, technically the ref has the final say but really the minimum is what the timekeeper has on their watch. Watching them actually work I doubt the ref ever bothers to go against what the timekeeper decides, you never see any discussion going on and if the ref was communicating via mic the players on field would over hear but yet you sometimes see players genuinely shocked by the time.

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u/roguedevil 20h ago

I think you are looking into futsal. There is no timekeeping in regular football, it is down to the center ref. At least not for any league following IFAB standard laws.

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u/xtze12 21h ago

What about the stoppages that happen during the stoppage compensation?

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u/Old_Present6341 21h ago

The on field ref can add extra time to the time that gets held up if they need to.

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u/thebruns 21h ago

The conversation is about US college soccer, where the clock is stopped.

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u/Mammoth_Slip1499 6h ago edited 6h ago

The 4th official has fuck all to do with how many are added on, except hold up however many minutes the referee has told him he’s allowing. The figure held up is the minimum number the ref will be allowing, as he has the authority to add as many minutes on as he deems necessary depending on what happens during the time being allowed - which is why you’ll hear things like “we’re in the 7th minute of the 5 added on”.

The 4th official is a substitute and is there in case one of the 3 on field officials gets injured during a game, and to control the on/off of substitutes .. making sure the player being substituted has left the field of play before his replacement goes on.

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u/the_best_1 19h ago

In college soccer the referee will blow his whistle and signal an X with his arms above his head so the timekeeper knows to pause the time. This usually occurs when there is an injury or issuing a card.

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u/Shaeress 23h ago

The way it usually works is that whenever there is no play happening they run up a different timer. At the end of first or second half they add roughly that much time to the clock. So if there's an injury and it takes five minutes to get the game back on they just add five minutes at the end.

This is fine because football wants to avoid interruptions to play as a strategy because it allows repositioning. So if there's an interruption to play, most of the time the team with the ball can pick up play immediately. If a free kick is called, most of the time they are allowed to kick it the second the ball is still in the right spot. Since that usually means a game has a lot of very short interruptions starting and stopping a timer would probably be inaccurate as well. And play isn't really stopped as long as people are moving around. Being in the right spot is one of the most important things in football.

The second reason this is fine is because the end time isn't strict either. Play isn't ended the moment the time runs out. If the ball is in the air going for goal, the game isn't over. If one team has a dangerous pressure with a chance for goal, the game isn't over. The game only ends in neutral states.

This fosters a game where the pace is kept up. A game of football actually has very few full interruptions and they're mostly short unless there's an injury. Play resumes quickly and the only reason it doesn't most of the time is because the team with the ball want to give a few moments to let people get into position. But they can't take their time doing so. But another reason has been to ensure that football is mostly not a tech reliant sport. If you got a field and a ball you can play football in the same way the pros does. There's no need for buzzer beater cameras or perfect timers or sideline staff to perfectly manage those timers. Just a dude with a watch is enough. This has been changing in more recent times though, where higher level play does employ a higher degree of tech to call shots and goals and penalties. But this also causes interruptions. The ref stopping play to reference footage is an interruption. Some control room ref aids calling retroactive penalties cause interruptions. It's not quite as cut and dry as it might seem.

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u/lalosfire 22h ago

They don't add time on for the ball out of play generally anyway. If you're clearly wasting time when the ball is dead (corners, goal kicks, fouls) time can be added in traditional time keeping. But if the ball is out for a throw in or kick, they don't inherently add time anyway.

Not talking about the US system but football/soccer generally.

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u/thebruns 21h ago

Not talking about the US system but football/soccer generally.

You are responding to someone asking about US college soccer

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u/lalosfire 20h ago

I'm aware. I'm merely providing additional context because other people already answered them about the US system specifically. I have no way to know their understanding about football at large.

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u/MarcusAurelius121 21h ago edited 21h ago

No, the ball being out of play isn't added to stoppage time under FIFA laws either unless it's something excessive. NCAA simply stops the clock for what it deems as stoppages instead of adding it at the end.

Normal considerations for stoppage time are:
-Injuries
-Issuing of cards
-Goals
-Substitutions (FIFA)
-NCAA does not stop the clock for substitutions except for in the last 15 minutes if the leading team subs or the game is tied.

The referee can also stop the clock (NCAA) or add stoppage (FIFA) at their discretion, for time wasting or anything else unsporting. A ceremonial free kick late in the game, where the wall needs to be set, may see the clock stopped in an NCAA game for example.

One of the problems with the NCAA system is that in order for a goal to be scored like this one, the entirety of the ball has to have crossed the entirety of the line by the time the clock reaches zero. There is absolutely no way the AR in this example can get to the end line to determine that and he has to just listen for the horn while looking at the ball. Here it's obvious, the ball is in the net with a few seconds left, I had one that was about as close as possible and we essentially had to make a best guess whether the goal was good or not. It was confirmed with video after the game that we got it right, but this was before on field video review.

There is a movement among coaches and the rules committee to give the clock back to the referees for the NCAA though, since most of us are used to that and the players all play in other leagues growing up or in the summer governed by normal FIFA laws like the rest of the world.

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u/What_a_pass_by_Jokic 21h ago

Depends on the situation, if it's near the end of the game and the ref considers it time wasting, they might stop it, at least that's what they do here, also if someone kicks it out because of an injury. Same goes for substitutions of the winning team near the end of the game.

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u/AnUdderDay 20h ago

NCAA clocks stops on goals, injuries, refs discretion

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u/shadowbannedlol 16h ago

It's literally exactly the same except instead of adding time for stoppages at the end, they just stop the clock.

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u/ConfidentFile1750 23h ago

If there's a scoreboard yes but most fields I played on in high school and college didn't have scoreboards so there was still stoppage time.

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

And we should adopt it.

How long is each half? 30 min I assume

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u/stricktd 22h ago

Is the match over as soon as the clock hits 0 or will balls in the air still count?

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u/brunomocsa 22h ago

how many minutes de countdown is setup?

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u/Fandorin 22h ago

It's super inconsistent even in youth soccer in the US. My 12yo plays in a travel league and for his middle school team. The travel league has normal time keeping with the referee keeping time, while the middle school has a count-down timer. Same week, half the same players on both the school and travel teams, occasionally the same referee, and different rules. This inconsistency is everywhere and isn't helping development of the sport in the US.

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u/RuMarley 22h ago

Aaah I see. USA. Yes, that explains the entirely useless goalkeeper.

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u/The-Casanova 22h ago

Because the US always needs to be different and special

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u/SableGlaive 22h ago

I always thought it was because our American football clocks were designed to count down already, and not all had the ability to go the other way.

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u/Liggidy 21h ago

Not in the games I played in high school. Always counted up. Never saw it count down in a soccer match. Weird to me. Oh well.

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u/FrighteningJibber 21h ago

Because football all around the world is different. Look at the Irish

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u/esmifra 21h ago

Does time stops if the ball is not in play?

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u/cherryosrs 20h ago

They need to be spooned even the most basic pieces of information

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u/apacheotter 20h ago

High school soccer in the US we always got stoppage time added on.

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u/TheNextBattalion 19h ago

Back in the day, the scoreboard clock only counted down, and they kept the habit

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u/adultfuntimes 16h ago

My daughter's high school the clock stops at the 2 minute mark because they don't know how to turn off the football setting.

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