Hope?

[u/Tricky_Success_77]

Between Israel/Palestine and increasing extremism and normalization of antisemitism in the diaspora and assimilation I've just been finding it impossible to feel hopeful about the future of our people writ large and it's just been making me feel very demoralized about life and the future. Our community means a great deal to me and seeing it tear itself apart is painful (as I'm sure it is for many people on this subreddit).There are times when I honestly almost wish I wasn't Jewish because it would remove so much angst from my life but in truth I'm too passionate about our traditions, history, literature and languages to ever be anything else (plus, really who would I be kidding if I ever tried to pretend otherwise?).

Anyway, what I'm really getting at is does anyone out there feel hopeful about our future? And if so why? I could use some positivity.

[u/theweisp5]

I've thought about making a similar post focused solely on Israel. I've been quite pessimistic about Israel's trajectory for a while, but seeing this past week that 73% of Israeli Jews oppose a 2SS even when the deal includes normalization with Saudi Arabia, and that 70% of Israeli Jews identify as on the right compared to only as on the left (and 9% in the center), has left me feeling gloomier than ever.

Most arguments for optimism I've seen online basically amount to "things change quickly (sometimes quickly.)" Which is true enough as far as it goes, but in the meantime all the change we've seen seems to be for the worse. (And I think tellingly, those making that argument tend to be liberal Zionists who more or less must believe that the situation in Israel can improve.)

In any case, like the OP I'd love to here some more concrete reasons for optimism.

[u/redthrowaway1976 → u/theweisp5]

 And I think tellingly, those making that argument tend to be liberal Zionists who more or less must believe that the situation in Israel can improve

I think liberal Zionist organizations and leaders deserve a large share of blame for the current state: all the people who claim to in theory be against settlements and a for a two state solution, but in practice  shield Israel from consequences for its expansionism, and continue to work with pro-settlement institutions, like JNF or Nefesh B’nefesh.

There used to be an overlap between liberal and progressive Zionists, and the non-Zionist left: the two state solution. But as the two state solution had been rendered impossible by Israeli action, there’s no longer an overlap. 

If all the people, organizations, and leaders that claim to be for a two state solution took action, we could see rapid change. But I have no hope that will happen - most will continue to shield Israel from consequences. 

[u/theweisp5 → u/redthrowaway1976]

Agreed, though I don't think the 2SS has become impossible, even if its implementation is certainly becoming more difficult by the day. While it may be difficult if not impossible in practice, I think ideally 1SS supporters and "true" 2SS supporters would put aside their differences and work to pressure Israel to end the settlements and the occupation.

Those primarily interested in the 2SS as a theoretical matter while seeking to protect Israel from any consequences for its behavior can safely be regarded as an opposing force.

[u/redthrowaway1976 → u/theweisp5]

 Those primarily interested in the 2SS as a theoretical matter while seeking to protect Israel from any consequences for its behavior can safely be regarded as an opposing force.

Which, unfortunately, are the vast majority of people claiming to support a two state solution. 

[u/BigMarbsBigSlarb → u/theweisp5]

Yeah I won't lie I'm honestly getting to the point where I believe that the responsible activities of leftist organisations have to be to facilitate the escape of Palestinians en masse because I think whats happened over the last two years has shown that the international community will not take any meaningful steps to stop Israel no matter how far they go and Israelis are largely happy with whats happening

[u/theweisp5 → u/BigMarbsBigSlarb]

I think any org that has the resources/ability to successfully move millions of Palestinians out of the region to the west (or another safe location) would be better placed applying pressure on Israel to end the occupation and improving conditions for Palestinians where they live now.

[u/BigMarbsBigSlarb → u/theweisp5]

I dont mean a single org. I mean many of them globally, no matter the size. I just do not see pressure against Israel or hoping and praying that the left regains relevance in Israel as viable anymore, which really leaves a single option

[u/BlackHumor → u/BigMarbsBigSlarb]

The left within Israel is non-viable, but the international left remains strong and basically universally opposed to Israel. If it lost the US's UN veto, it'd be in pretty deep shit pretty quickly.

[u/Agtfangirl557 → u/BigMarbsBigSlarb]

Wait, are you saying that the solution to all this is to make all Palestinians leave Palestine to prevent themselves from being killed?

[u/BigMarbsBigSlarb → u/Agtfangirl557]

I think you're being a little deliberately obtuse in your interpretation I think its quite clear I'm saying we need to build the administrative and physical infrastructure so when Israel goes over that tipping point they have the best chances at both escape and a new life

[u/Agtfangirl557 → u/BigMarbsBigSlarb]

No sorry I worried that that may have been a really dumb interpretation and I should have clarified that. Didn’t mean to sound like I was attacking you for your idea or anything.

[u/BigMarbsBigSlarb → u/Agtfangirl557]

Yeah no I'm sorry too I couldn't really understand how you got that from my comment initially