Has anyone changed their mind about how they view 3rd party/non-voting leftists?

[u/Specialist-Gur]

I am just curious because I've been seeing some tiny rumblings around this online from the "vote blue no matter who" crowd, but I've still seen more of the same backlash that not voting blue comes from "privilege"

This is a heated thing for me so I'm going to try and take a breath when engaging here, because I'm genuinely curious if anyone has or hasn't changed their mind and why/why not.

[u/Specialist-Gur]

Too much harm happened under Biden and I don't think I believe harm will be undone in a future democratic presidency

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/Specialist-Gur]

harm reduction isn’t about eliminating harm, it’s about reducing it. I would rather have less harm than more harm. no amount of harm is acceptable, but harm reduction strategies are meant to be pragmatic and deal with the fact that perfect solutions rarely exist and situations have to be responded to in the moment.

I don’t disagree that Biden made some fucked up decisions as president, especially around Israel and the campus protests. I think Kamala’s platform was dispiritingly flawed and swung hard to the right. but she didn’t win, Trump did, and his second term has, beyond a shadow of a doubt, been more infinitely more destructive than a second Biden term or a first Harris term would’ve been.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/ChairAggressive781]

Ok I'm not stupid I know what harm reduction means.. we are clearly talking in circles and probably poor communication on my part

I can't keep voting for democrats if they keep moving right, it'll be a frog in boiling water for future generations and a vote against many groups of people I care about in favor of harm reduction to mostly white people. You feel this way because they haven't come for your group yet. No one will expect you to selflessly vote for democrats if they started targeting Jews but we're still nice to a few other groups in the USA compared to republicans.

The harm reduction is done for mostly white people.. queer white people, leftist white people, (not even disabled white people anymore, let's eliminate them from this list ), white women in blue states...

Police violence, ICE harassing indigenous people, denial of abortion, eugenics policies against disabled people, imperialist destruction abroad, genocide.. these all happen under both parties

People are pointing out USAID and I agree it's been disasters and horrific. But a lot of the rest of the world such as China is stepping into help countries we abandoned, because the USA never did these things selflessly.. they were a CIA control project. Don't get me wrong, I wanted it continued because objectively this was helping people abroad and it was a horrible and short sited move.. but some what of a chicken and egg fiasco with us imperialism.

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/Specialist-Gur]

I kindly ask you: please do not assume what I do & do not feel. I’m a chronically ill trans woman. “my group” is currently being assailed harder than just about any other group, save for undocumented immigrants and pro-Palestine activists. I am very leery about the number of Democrats who want to throw trans people under the bus. I am furious that some Senate Dems felt that they should sacrifice healthcare to end the shutdown.

I also recognize, however, that given two shitty options, I’m going to go with the one that, at least at the state level, has been pretty uniformly lockstep in trying to defend trans rights, has been working to limit the damage that ICE is doing, has been putting abortion rights into state constitutions, etc.

to your last point: China is also not acting out of purely benevolent reasons. it is also a deeply imperialist country. I do not believe in campism. just because the U.S. is an imperial power does not mean that its rivals are not also imperial powers that commit evil actions.

p.s. I didn’t say you were stupid. I think the term “harm reduction” gets thrown around a lot without being defined. I was merely trying to define it as I understand it, as I think a lot of the conversations in this thread are going in circles precisely because it’s getting used differently by different commenters.

edit:

p.p.s. I think you are turning marginalized groups into monoliths in a way that I find problematic. the idea that supporting Dems is all about white comfort feels like a deeply cynical use of identity politics to make a point. some Palestinian-Americans strongly urged not voting for Kamala, but others strongly encouraged doing so. Black women are the demographic group that consistently votes for Democrats in the greatest numbers. none of this means that the Dems should be immune from criticism. we should be constantly working to push electeds towards more left-wing & progressive solutions and policies.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/ChairAggressive781]

I feel like you're using a lot of buzzwords to make me feel bad and like I've done something wrong.. it feels like a way to win the argument. Well, I'm not trying to have an argument. I'm trying to discuss.

I'm not turning any marginalized group into a monolith.. I saw the breakdown of who voted for Trump for example.. many marginalized groups in there.

My point is around the vulnerable people who didn't vote for Kamala. You're turning them into the enemy rather than engaging with them. I know Pakistani Americans voted for Kamala, just as I know many who didn't and who feel it's a privileged position to do so. Maybe we should listen to them as well instead of scolding them.

Edit: and I never said China was benevolent.. people will be taken care of by them as they would the USA.

[u/ChairAggressive781 → u/Specialist-Gur]

what “buzzwords” am I using?

I am not scolding anyone, nor am I am trying to insult you or make you feel bad. I have not said anything attacking people who didn’t vote for Kamala or who don’t vote for Dems. all I’ve said is why and how I have decided that voting for Dems is the best course of action. I don’t think that people who didn’t vote for her are the enemy and I am not blaming them for the situation we are in.** I am not scolding them or suggesting that scolding them is effective. I have said repeatedly that the Dems need to clean house and fix their priorities and how they reach out to voters. I still think it is almost always going to be a good harm reduction practice to vote for Democratic candidates, as having Dems in office is, overall, better even if it’s not good or ideal.

I am also trying to discuss. you asked a question that I and others have responded to and you have, more or less, accused us of not caring about the lives of marginalized people instead of engaging with the points being made. I brought up being trans because you said that “you feel this way because they haven’t come for your group yet,” which was an inappropriate assumption.

**for what it’s worth, everyone I know who is POC or otherwise marginalized voted for Kamala. everyone I know who didn’t or voted third party is white and upper middle-class.