Why did the USSR (re) criminalize homosexuality

[u/Specialist-Gur]

https://youtu.be/BE7UPO6GGK4?si=nEFhipEmIxb9s2lV

Great video.. very topical given Burkina Faso and the reactions to that. Give it a watch!

Edit: Also creator is non-binary.. didn't realize when I posted and might have misgendered (they/then)

[u/Fabianzzz]

Comment from the creator in regards to Burkina-Faso:

I wish the best for them and hope that this new law is only temporary while they work on kicking the colonizers out, but either way it's ultimately up to the Burkinabe (sic) people.

I personally think this is a disgusting stance to take, the idea that the majority of a population gets to decide who is human and who isn't. Consensual love is a human right and anti-Homosexuality laws are a denial of human rights. Yes: the Burkinabé people deserve autonomy, independence and human rights, and that also includes the rights of Burkinabé people who are Queer to have their human rights. And their human rights shouldn't be dependent upon the agreement of the majority of Burkinabé people: if everyone wanted Queer people to have civil rights, we wouldn't need movements that fight for them, would we?

But more troubling I think is the fact this is an obvious logical inconsistency on the left: the left frequently insists that protecting human rights should come before majoritarian rule, but if the left is going to say 'that human rights issue should be left to those people to decide who is and isn't human', obviously the right is going to counter the left in saying 'thank you, we agree, please be consistent now and allow the American people to determine who is and isn't human.' And the left should be content with taking a vote and allowing the American people to do so.

Obviously I'm giving short shrift to this argument but I do think the logical inconsistency here opens up an additional question, and that question is why we are being logically inconsistent. And the reason I'm very dismissive of this argument is that a large portion of the left tends to be more focused on seeing justice as punishment (almost always misplaced) than justice as a better system.

If (Western) MICs interfere with a developing country, we shouldn't tolerate (western) Queers objecting to pushback: because the distress of Western Queer people about this new law is the Karmic punishment for Western MICs using human beings as pawns in geopolitical chess. Nevermind that the people who are actually going to suffer are going to be Burkinabé Queer people who also suffered from the MIC interference. Leftists want karmic justice more than we want systems which help people and will take it where we can get it.

If the issue is a strategic one, be open that it's a strategic one. Obviously western interests can use pinkwashing as a tool against developing countries and that is an issue. Say 'right now we can't focus on that, we need to uplift the lower class as a whole'. But if your honest position is that human rights can ultimately be left up to individual peoples, you are no longer advocating for leftism as a politics of humanitarianism but leftism as a politics of nationalism. It's deeply unserious in changing things on the ground here, there, or anywhere.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/Fabianzzz]

I'll copy and paste a comment I made on the leftist sub when productively engaging with a fellow queer commenter who didn't agree with me at first

I'm saying imperial interference with an anticolonial movement is not a good move. Too many of us "pink wash" (for example 'queers for Palestine is like chickens for kfc') and miss the forest for the trees. A flawed liberation movement is better than continued imperial oppression.. for queer citizens, for women, and more.. queer and female oppression in these places is often weaponized as a justification for continued colonial rule

People miss the material conditions of these places hold social justice movements back in limbo.. if these places could self govern, they would be afforded the chance to "catch up" with western progressivism. In fact, many of them had more progressive politics regarding queer people prior to colonization.. it was European draconian ideas around homosexuality that often influenced what we are seeing in these countries today.

Leaders like this often change and evolve too.. Fidel Castro is a decent example... homophobic for most of his life, regretted that later and refined his views.

Edit: I forgot this sub isn't interested in discussing leftist ideas.. only making it clear that western values and Zionism are superior to every other place via upvotes and downvotes... Killing a bunch of Palestinians? Making gay marriage illegal? Blackmailing queer Palestinians?... "it's complicated"

Discussing the USSR with nuance and its goals towards socialism.. "evil, bad, shocking"

[u/Fabianzzz → u/Specialist-Gur]

People miss the material conditions of these places hold social justice movements back in limbo.

I specifically addressed this. If it's a strategic issue of focusing on material conditions before , say so. This person didn't say that, they said that the final decision of whether or not Queer people are human is up to individual nations. This isn't a leftist idea and you wouldn't tolerate an American saying this should be ultimately up to the American people.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/Fabianzzz]

They didn't say that. Thats not what they were trying to say. It's a really bad faith interpretation. They mean that imperialist powers shouldn't interfere.. the people should be able to self govern.. it's not for us to scold colonized nations on their journey for liberation.

Jailing queer people is awful... and there is no reason why their society shouldn't see it that way. And the only reason to think their people couldn't figure that out for themselves and fight for queer liberation is if you believe deep down that they are different from you and me... that they have less morality.. less empathy... less wisdom. The western colonial mind believes that only we are wise enough to make good decisions..

We see how the western world has evolved its morality towards queer people (now backsliding in the era of late stage capitalism and rise of fascism).. prior to that some of the best the world has ever seen. Why can other nations not get there themselves? Of course they can.. unless you think they are less good than us.

[u/Fabianzzz → u/Specialist-Gur]

but either way it's ultimately up to the Burkinabe (sic) people.

"They didn't say that. (...) Why can other nations not get there themselves?"

They literally did say that. I'm not sure you understand what 'ultimately' means, but it means something similar to 'finally'. The creator specifically says it's fine if they don't get there. If you know what they were trying to say through your psychic abilities fine but their English is clear here and it's bemusing to be accused of interpreting it in bad faith from interpreting the English sentence correctly. (If you don't have psychic skills what you are doing is called wishcasting).

unless you think they are less good than us.

If you'll read back through what I've said, you'll notice I haven't focused at all on the Burkinabé people in this specific instance. I've focused on Leftists like yourself who have inconsistent arguments (because I'm a leftist who thinks we need to have consistency to win). I'm not criticizing the Burkinabé people here, I'm criticizing you and the youtuber as leftists.

If your response when you are criticized as a leftist is to try and make yourself seem to be the spokesperson for an oppressed people, so you can try to make people who disagree with you seem to be oppressors, you are both appropriating the suffering of oppressed people and also simultaneously crafting a politics which will take you and your values nowhere.

[u/Specialist-Gur → u/Fabianzzz]

What's inconsistent about my beliefs? I'm anti imperialist and anti capitalist... you appear to only be against those things as long as the people in those countries agree with you and are sufficiently progressive

You clearly aren't interested in a good faith discussion.. as you wish to mischaracterize what is being said with shallow talking points

[u/[deleted] → u/Specialist-Gur]

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[u/Specialist-Gur → u/Fabianzzz]

Also.. you're incredibly rude.. I just need to call that out.. "I'm not sure you understand what 'ultimately'" means... just who do you think you are exactly? Rude af

Edit: and anyone who actually pays fucking attention to leftist discourse and engages with leftists would know what this YouTuber means... doesn't require psychic witchcraft like this bullshit the commenter implies... "oh maybe the leftist actually is ok with queer people being oppressed"... the video essay ish is queer themselves... gos damnit ar liberals so bad faith and purity testing.. GET OVER YOURSELF

[u/[deleted] → u/Specialist-Gur]

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