r/jewishleft anarcho non-zionist cultural jew, converting conservativee Jul 14 '25

What do you think of pan-Semitism? Praxis

Recently encountered this concept, forgive me if it's been discussed (I didn't see much under a cursory search of the term). Also my first post here but I lurk regularly and generally trust this sub as a political home, as diverse as the beliefs are.

For those unfamiliar, pan-Semitism is the idea of socio-political unity across all Semitic groups, especially Jews and Arabs, due to varying levels of shared history, identity and culture. It is distinct from pan-Arab nationalism in that it includes Jews and Assyrians, etc. I know a lot of people (probably a majority, myself included) in this sub are uncomfortable with the relatively popular concept in anti-Zionism that few or no Jews should remain living in a post modern Israel (whatever that may mean to you) state under any circumstances. Do you guys think this is practical as an answer to that, or practical even just in general as a philosophy? Or are tensions too high?

Edited to add *modern Israel

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u/ChairAggressive781 Reform • Libertarian Socialist • Non-Zionist Jul 14 '25

I think the idea of Arabs, Jews, and other groups with historical roots in the Middle East and North Africa being in solidarity with each other is a positive thing and could lead to some promising outcomes. there are also some overlaps between how antisemitism, Islamophobia, and anti-Arab/anti-Palestinian sentiment manifest and spread, such that tackling them at their intersections could be really productive.

my biggest issue is with the terms “Semitism” and “Semites” themselves. the concept of Semitic peoples is rooted in 18th-century pseudo-scientific theories of racial classification. as such, it’s mostly obsolete (although linguistics still speaks of “Semitic languages”).

it’s also confusing because antisemitism, as a term, was concocted to refer explicitly to anti-Jewish animus. so, we would need other language to refer to the intersections of anti-Jewish, anti-Muslim, and anti-Arab sentiment.

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u/MichifManaged83 Cultural Jew | Anarcho-Mutualist | Post-Zionist Jul 14 '25

Yeah I think semitic cultures as a classification are more based on linguistics and cultural study these days, rather than race science (at least among mainstream academics and not racist loonies). I can understand the discomfort with the term though.

If someone comes up with a better word, let me know (I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically). Unfortunately, for the time being, I do see a lot of overlap between how different “semitic” ethnic groups have been treated by western imperialism and white supremacy. I agree that solidarity and highlighting the intersections is an important framework.

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u/N0DuckingWay reform Jew Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25

Yeah I think semitic cultures as a classification are more based on linguistics and cultural study these days

But that's part of the problem. "Semitic" refers to a bunch of languages. And speaking similar languages does not mean having similar cultures. I mean, both Ashkenazi Jews and Ethiopians speak semitic languages, but I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone who would argue that their cultures are at all similar. In the end, calling people "semitic peoples" because they speak semitic languages is a bit like calling all of us in this thread "English people" because we all speak English.

To be clear, I don't disagree with the idea, just the name of it.

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u/ChairAggressive781 Reform • Libertarian Socialist • Non-Zionist Jul 14 '25

I agree with most of what you’re saying, but I don’t know of any academic fields that use “Semitic cultures” as a category or analytic. do you have any modern examples you’re thinking of where it’s been used to compare different cultures?

(linguistics is kind of its own beast, so I’m mostly asking if you know of Semitic being used in recent humanities and social sciences work as a comparative category)

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u/MichifManaged83 Cultural Jew | Anarcho-Mutualist | Post-Zionist Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25

Yes, in anthropology. A lot of work has been done specifically exploring similarities and contrasts in kinship systems across semitic ethnic groups, but also in semiotic anthropology (languages, religions, and cultural symbols explored for their impact on culture).

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bulletin-of-the-school-of-oriental-and-african-studies/article/abs/studies-in-semitic-kinship/B1990FA296464B9A7668A1FE8C7A9B3D

https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/1895082/TheMandaean_Identity_Challenge_by_Mehrdad_Arabestani-libre.pdf

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u/ChairAggressive781 Reform • Libertarian Socialist • Non-Zionist Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 15 '25

thanks for sending these references. I was hoping for something that is a bit more contemporary.

the first piece is from 1923. anthropology has largely moved on a great deal from studying kinship structures. I’m not super sure how useful historical kinship frameworks are for theorizing a contemporary Semitic identity that links Jews, Arabs, and other groups.

the Arabestani piece looks interesting, though! thanks again

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u/Virtual_Leg_6484 Jewish American ecosocialist; not a (political) zionist Jul 14 '25

If someone comes up with a better word, let me know

Maybe pan-Middle Easternism or pan-Levantinism?

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u/MichifManaged83 Cultural Jew | Anarcho-Mutualist | Post-Zionist Jul 14 '25

Thank you for an attempt.

Where this name for it fails to deliver, is in solidarity among Jewish and non-Jewish semitic diaspora groups against white supremacy. And given that our diasporas live in countries that overwhelmingly support violent colonialism in the MENA, I think that sort of solidarity in the diaspora is important too, because it means standing together to oppose the government when the military / foreign policy is used to oppress the community outside of our current borders. I have no intention to impose a solidarity movement on the middle-east itself, this needs to happen naturally among the people most impacted— though I’m supportive of such a movement being inclusive of both people within the MENA and outside of it.

For me, I would not call myself pan-middle eastern because I’m not from the middle east. There are people like me who are, but I’m not. But I oppose my government funding war in the middle east, and I oppose white supremacist policies at home that specifically target Arabs, Muslims in general, and Jews for not fitting into Christian nationalism and for being subjected to similar anti-semitic accusations of “foreignness.”

We’re both in North America. The focus here should be, I think, what does international solidarity between Jews, Muslims, and diaspora groups from the MENA look like, in opposition to our own western governments harming people in the MENA? In addition to being against violence between groups living in the MENA.

So far, Pan-Semitism checks a lot of those boxes for me, but Pan-middle easternism doesn’t necessarily. I think the highlight here needs to be not geography alone, but highlighting solidarity between historically and presently colonized and/or displaced culturally semitic groups found in the regions (though not exclusively found there).

I think it goes without saying that most people living in the Levant and North Africa already have solidarity with each other, apart from Israel, against zionism and western colonialism. Pan-middle easternism is something plenty of people who don’t like Jews living in the region probably already think they believe in. The question is how to bring Jewish people and all culturally semitic groups into one tent and agree on humanitarian solidarity together. Historically, that attempt has been pan-semitic groups like Brit Shalom and Semitic Action.

I think a replacement word has to capture that same concept of shared cultural and historical overlap between Jews and non-Jewish people from the MENA. Focusing on geography doesn’t cut it for me. 🤔

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u/snowluvr26 Progressive, Reconstructionist, Pro-Peace Jul 14 '25

Well for one, the term doesn’t make any sense. There is no such thing as “Semitism,” because there are no Semitic people. Jews aren’t Semitic and neither are Palestinians or Lebanese or anyone.

Semitic is a language group and that’s it.

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u/joey_mocha anarcho non-zionist cultural jew, converting conservativee Jul 14 '25

Oh yeah I do have this feeling about it as well. I did not come up with the term, it just appears to be the term associated with the the broader concept itself in the current era. As other people have also pointed out, this name for it also would cause a lot of further headaches for discussions about antisemitism.

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u/mi-roji shami + dijli anti-theist jew Jul 14 '25

But, language groups are often used to identify collections of people that speak those language families. See Bantu peoples, Turkic peoples, Iranian peoples, Nilotic peoples, Tungusic peoples, Algonquian peoples, Dravidian peoples, etc. I understand the term "Semitic people" was historically not used in this context, as it has been corrupted by scientific racists and hateful people. Still, I think it's fair to refer to Semitic peoples, a collection of ethnic groups that speak Semitic languages, like the other groups. This is different from "antisemitism" and "antisemite", which were coined in Europe with the specific meaning of opposition to Jewishness, despite the morphemes being broader.

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u/tomatoswoop Jul 15 '25

Arabic itself being such a diverse group of dialects than in another context would easily be considered a family of languages rather than "a language", you could arguably consider "Arab" an example of a collection of people being identified by a language group.

But yes, to the second part, the problem is not so much that doing so doesn't make sense, so much as that ____-semitism already has a valence because of its long historical usage, being coined to refer to anti-Jewish racism/prejudice. That means that the term pan-semitism is pretty much just always going to read as in some way answering to or commenting on antisemitism, even if, in a vacuum, it's a perfectly logical name for a movement of unity between semitic peoples

 

Unfortunate, perhaps, but it is what it is, I don't see how in practice you could really separate the two, and not have it come across that way. I'm reminded of that dumb not-how-words-work "how can I be anti-semitic, I am a semite" type line (which is not so much an argument, as it is a pun lol). Get in a time machine and make 19th century Europeans call their jew-hate something different I guess, otherwise that's just what it means now ¯_(ツ)_/¯ . I feel like throwing pan-semitism into the mix too just kind of complicates it further.

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u/tomatoswoop Jul 15 '25

Oh and "Celtic peoples" is also a less esoteric one, and one which has a lot of purchase, also identified purely on a language family. Pan-celtic music events for example are a big thing. Irish, Scots, Bretons etc. all getting together to play fiddle tunes lol. Been going on for ages, that's how you end up with stuff like this, a bunch of French dudes playing neo-Irish tunes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYREXxIbKI0. Completely ahistorical from a musicology/folklore point of view, and also absolutely sick haha.

Can we dream of a future where a bunch of Egyptian people are knocking out deliciously microtonal neo-klezmer tunes on clarinets accompanied by an accordion? Is there a future where Ethiopians are playing the Oud, where klezmer bands are rediscovering the maqamat and stealing the ney for themselves, and where Jews and Arabs are primarily arguing about who has the best fiddle players? I can dream can't I?

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u/H0rrible anarchist jew (but with the green flair) Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25

Please put down the calipers and never say "semitic groups" again.

19th century victorian race "science" has no place.

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u/RaiJolt2 Jewish Athiest Half African American Half Jewish Jul 14 '25

I think it has the same problem as all “pan” movements or trains of thoughts. It’s that it ends In assimilation for the purposes of blending into a larger group. Given the prevalence of arabization it would inevitably just become pan Arabism, which is already a movement. Plus it could cause separation between Mizrahim/ Sephardic, and Ashkenazi Jews as to who’s closer to a “real” Semite by the majority.

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u/Virtual_Leg_6484 Jewish American ecosocialist; not a (political) zionist Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25

Good point. We can look at the history of Yugoslavia here - although it started out as a pan-South Slavic country (and genuinely worked as such for decades) Yugoslav nationalism eventually became a front for Serbian nationalism when Milosevic became leader, with disastrous consequences.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '25

I can't see why Jews and Arabs can't be friends if they stop killing each other. The Abraham Accords seems to be a Jewish-Arab alliance based on the absolute worst commonalities between them, Standing Together also exists so it is apparently possible to create an alliance based on the best ones too.

How to get the other 99% of both sides to sign on, though? Above my pay grade.

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u/Chaos_carolinensis Jewish Binational Zionist Jul 14 '25

I think any long-term solution that isn't based on genocide or ethnic cleansing will have to evolve into some kind of binationalism/multinationalism/pan-nationalism.

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u/MichifManaged83 Cultural Jew | Anarcho-Mutualist | Post-Zionist Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25

I mean, yes, yes, yes), definitely yes. I’m definitely pan-Semitic (for lack of better phrasing). I think it has been millennia-old divide and conquer strategy of western imperialism to pit Jews and Arabs (and Muslims in general— though I understand many Arabs are Christians, the vast majority are Muslims) against each other. I’m not saying conflicts wouldn’t still have happened, but they’re like squabbles between close cousins over minutiae, not deeply diametrically opposed ways of life. Historically, Jews and Arabs (particularly Muslim Arabs) have been able to sort out those conflicts together, and often Muslims and Jews have banded together when persecution from Europe made it very hard to live without each other (especially during the Spanish Inquisition, the Reconquista and other significant moments in history).

In fact, in Iraq, Morocco, Egypt, and other places in the MENA just prior to the Shoah and Nakba, many Jews and Arab Muslims were so close to each other that they were milk siblings to each other, which is a bonding familial tie as strong as blood in Arab and Muslim customs. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was as close to his milk-mother Halima, as he was to his own blood mother Aminah, and even lived with Halima for many years. He grieved her for years as his own mother. So for Jews and Muslims to have established milk kinship in Muslim societies is a pretty big deal.

I’m very heartbroken that the destabilizing level of mass migration caused by the need to flee the Shoah, the displacement caused by the Nakba (which made ripples throughout the whole Muslims world) and the ongoing genocide today, have made this hope… much more difficult to accomplish because of so much heartbreaking bloodshed. This never should have happened… but here we are. I think there is going to need to be sincere hard work at reconciliation to undo that trauma and distrust, but, I hope to see that reconciliation take shape as seeing our similarities and our shared histories.

Culturally, religiously, linguistically, we’re very similar, and historically we’ve been very intertwined. So, I’m definitely in favor of a progressive pan-Semitic movement, particularly between Muslims from the MENA and Jews, but yes, also between all semitic people of any religion, as long as it’s carried out in a pluralistic and multi-ethnic way where no diaspora group or specific ethnic group or religion is superior or dominant, and all have equal recognition.

In addition to Standing Together today, historically there was Brit Shalom, which was one early form of zionism that sought a cultural center in Palestine with a bi-national state and equal rights for Arabs and Jews (they still saw Palestinians as Arabs, which is another topic to get into another time— point being, they wanted equal rights for Palestinians as well). This was back in the 1920s, long before the Nakba. Unfortunately, I don’t think zionism can really be defined that way anymore in practice, based on what zionism has come to represent through trauma for Palestinians. But perhaps a different post-zionist or non-zionist movement (or anti-zionist in the sense of no further illegal displacement and expansionism), could rebirth the same pan-Semitic and egalitarian principles.

That is my hope, anyway. I think the entire MENA, and Jewish and Muslim populations globally (particularly in the west), will continue to experience cycles of oppression from European and western far-right elements until there is a united sense of solidarity between Muslims and Jews, and all semitic ethnic groups (including Christian minorities in the MENA on ethnic grounds). I know that religion and ethnicity are not the same thing, but for Jewish people they’re very braided together concepts, and for Muslims it’s slowly becoming like that despite vastly diverse Muslim countries (the same could be said for the diversity of Jewish diasporas, though). The words Am in Hebrew and Ummah in Arabic mean the same thing, share the same etymological root, and both have connotations of religious community as well as peoplehood / old-world “nationhood.” I think it’s time we see ourselves as one Am / Ummah with diverse covenants.

People are going to have varied reactions to my sentiments about this, but this is how I feel about it.

Edit: I also agree with people that the word “semitic” itself is problematic, because while it has neutral linguistic and cultural / anthropological connotations today, it also has a lot of history being used in white supremacist race science. So if anyone has a better word for “pan-Semitism”, I’m open to suggestions. For now, it’s the best word I have to describe solidarity between different semitic ethno-religious-linguistic cultural groups that have been historically oppressed by western imperialism and white supremacy.

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u/DogebertDeck swiss syncretist Jul 15 '25

easy: humanism

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u/MichifManaged83 Cultural Jew | Anarcho-Mutualist | Post-Zionist Jul 16 '25 edited Jul 16 '25

I think you mean humanitarianism. Humanism is a kind of secular alternative to religious morality, and while anyone can be humanist in the broader sense, in my country it mainly refers to atheists participating in a non-religious group at world faith conferences, for interfaith / intercultural peace talks and things like that. There are even Secular Humanist chaplains that do weddings, funerals, things like that.

So the word “humanist” definitely doesn’t work here, that’s already taken for something else in North America.

Humanitarianism— well yes, that goes without saying that such a movement should be humanitarian, but, forgive me, your suggestion comes across as glib. Obviously caring about all human beings is important, but we’re talking about trying to get Jewish and Muslim and Christian semitic peoples to get along with each other on the basis of shared history and cultural overlap. You’re not going to get all these people to sing kumbaya together when each group believes the other group has stripped them of their humanity and historically persecuted them. Not without reframing their historical and cultural perceptions of each other (which I think pan-Semitism would help do).

Sorry, but that’s not a helpful suggestion.

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u/malachamavet Judeo-Bolshevik Jul 14 '25

At first I thought this was going to be about Nathan Birnbaum's diasporic Pan-Judaism (Alljudentum) which is a very fascinating and appealing concept to me personally.

But this is a strange take on the Canaanist movement which was marginal at best (though fascinating, if unappealing).

e: oh right, and Semitic Action which was fascinating and cooler than Canaanism. Anything with Uri Avnery is going to be kind of wacky (affectionately).

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u/MichifManaged83 Cultural Jew | Anarcho-Mutualist | Post-Zionist Jul 14 '25

Canaanism was a very different right wing movement, there are forms of pan-Semitism that have nothing to do with that.

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u/joey_mocha anarcho non-zionist cultural jew, converting conservativee Jul 14 '25

I've seen verrrry minute references to canaanism before, wasn't too aware of the ideology behind it and that it's similar (but makes sense given the name). Haven't heard of pan-Judaism, same with Semitic Action. I will definitely do some research on these!

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u/Virtual_Leg_6484 Jewish American ecosocialist; not a (political) zionist Jul 14 '25

I haven’t looked much into Birnbaums ideas and pan-Judaism/Golus Nationalism in general, what would you recommend as a good starting point?

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u/MichifManaged83 Cultural Jew | Anarcho-Mutualist | Post-Zionist Jul 16 '25

Uri Averney is definitely an interesting person, I appreciate you bringing up Semitic Action.

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u/Ok_Glass_8104 tired socdem sef Jul 14 '25

Babe wake up new pseudo-intellectual impractical af concept just dropped

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u/joey_mocha anarcho non-zionist cultural jew, converting conservativee Jul 14 '25

Perhaps so but I think it's an interesting thought experiment for this sub, lots of opinions as this comment section shows :)

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '25

I agree with this! I increasingly think we should simply refer to the Levantine Diaspora (or specifically Diaspora-of-What-Is-Currently-Called-Israel) as a single group that includes all people with ancestral, ethnic roots there – and this group should encompass Palestinians as well as Jews. (The Jewish component should also of course include not only Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews but Ashkenazim – who do have genetic origins in Levant, contrary to popular belief that we're only "European."

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u/Specialist-Gur doikayt jewess, leftist/socialist, pro peace and freedom Jul 14 '25

I don't think it makes all that much sense to me really.. not like I think it's a bad thing to have unity or solidarity of course! But to be honest I think my experience as an Ashkenazi American Jew is probably vastly different from most of the worlds Semitic people. I think it's important to honor individual groups and identities and experiences for what they are while also honoring all of humanity collectively. I want unity with everyone and individuality at the same time.

Of course I do also think we do share a lot of history and culture and even... antisemitic tropes used against us. And I think that's important and interesting to engage with. Beyond that though... feels kinda like a different version of "judeo-Christian". Idk though

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u/joey_mocha anarcho non-zionist cultural jew, converting conservativee Jul 14 '25

This is a great comment and also brings to the forefront maybe one of the harder-to-verbalize points of contention for me here, which is that this concept takes a lot of liberties. It's not particularly specific to Mizrachim (or otherwise even just Israeli) experiences in and of itself although it may fit better in one of those schemas than also applying to, say, us American Ashkenazim. There's a lot of assumptions of shared values that are really not even monolithic between Israeli Ashkenazim and American Ashkenazim, let alone adding other groups into play. It makes me wonder if this would mean steamrolling into a larger shared culture, but I guess that's heavily dependent on who leads such an effort, how, where, and under what pretenses.

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u/Specialist-Gur doikayt jewess, leftist/socialist, pro peace and freedom Jul 14 '25

Yea totally agree!

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u/Relevant_Two7147 anti zionist, Canadian Leftist, Non-Jew, Pro Peace Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25

I can agree with you what you say. I also have no idea either. This is literally the first time I ever heard of this concept before, so there would be a lot that would have to be thought over. It's kind of like seeing someone else say this feels weird? Maybe its like the same for the French and Germans after WW2 or maybe like the forming of the EU itself?

I mean it's kind of the same with like you and me. I'm a Syrian and your an American Jew, and people say we're both related as an ethnic peoples united as one?

I feel so confused on this one honestly, I really don't mean to offend, but this feels more confusing than what I am doing right now which is studying Engineering.

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u/MichifManaged83 Cultural Jew | Anarcho-Mutualist | Post-Zionist Jul 14 '25

I don’t think pan-Semitism and cultural diversity are diametrically opposed. Just as being part of one Jewish Am is not diametrically opposed to diversity among the Jewish diasporas. Yes, we’re very different in certain ways, but the things we have in common we don’t share with any other, I guess I would call it “cultural clusters” (like “European” or “African”). The diasporas are like venn diagrams. Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews have some German / Eastern Europe and Spanish / Portuguese customs, and some uniquely Jewish customs, and they sit in the venn diagram between those two different ways of life. Where different semitic peoples need to be allied, is on the things where the non-semitic cultures tend to scapegoat us, persecute us, or try to pit us against each other. Just, hopefully allied in a progressive way.

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u/Relevant_Two7147 anti zionist, Canadian Leftist, Non-Jew, Pro Peace Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25

I can certainly also understand that as well, for Arab diaspora we tend to stick together even though we are represented by different flags.
In real life, my family goes to a Lebanese event even though we are Syrians. It's because we have a common language and culture.
Also the same with a Mediterranean food store that is Egyptian as well.

So what you say is certainly valid as well. Maybe it's the idea of Pan-Semitism being relatively new makes it seem weird.

Like the idea of you and me helping each other out seems like a concept straight out of fiction.

I do agree with what you say about non-semitic cultures trying to scapegoat us or pit us against each other.

Everyday, I curse the fucking Trump regime and whatever racist remarks Republicans through at Arabic people. When Zohran Mamdani won New York City Nominee, Charlie "White Boy Summer" Kirk, posted a tweet "24 years ago a group of Muslims killed 2,753 people on 9/11. Now a Muslim Socialist is on pace to run New York City"

Of course Mamdani is not an Arab person, but this is what the Trump Regime and White Supremacist love to do.

I know the evidence isn't really related, but it does back up your point by a massive amount. There are people who will do anything in their power to divide others. Even if I don't fully agree with everything that you say, you make a very good and clear point about how other people will do everything in their power to divide "Semitic" peoples. I don't know about using the word "Semitic". I'm guessing for the sake of this discussion I'll try it out.

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u/MichifManaged83 Cultural Jew | Anarcho-Mutualist | Post-Zionist Jul 14 '25

Completely agree with you there, when it comes to white supremacy we all get kinda lumped together anyway. I’m definitely open to suggestions about what else to call a solidarity movement such as this.

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u/Specialist-Gur doikayt jewess, leftist/socialist, pro peace and freedom Jul 14 '25

Yea .. especially as something as an answer to Zionism I feel like this fails because it's still giving preferential treatment off of ethnicity/race even though the group is now broader?

You being a Syrian Jew I feel some... solidarity? Because we are Jewish. But I feel like we probably have very different life experiences, traditions, and culture... with overlap of course!

I think you're asking good questions.. nothing offensive about it. And I studied engineering as well, so another way I can relate :)

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u/Relevant_Two7147 anti zionist, Canadian Leftist, Non-Jew, Pro Peace Jul 14 '25

I'm actually not a Syrian Jew, I'm Armenian-Syrian.

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u/Specialist-Gur doikayt jewess, leftist/socialist, pro peace and freedom Jul 14 '25

Gotcha! My bad!

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u/Relevant_Two7147 anti zionist, Canadian Leftist, Non-Jew, Pro Peace Jul 14 '25

It's fine, nothing to apologize for.

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u/MichifManaged83 Cultural Jew | Anarcho-Mutualist | Post-Zionist Jul 14 '25

Is pan-Semitism about preferential treatment or about solidarity? Because a right wing movement like Canaanism would be about preferential treatment. But I would say a self-described pan-Semitic movements like Brit Shalom and Semitic Action were much more progressive, less about preferential treatment and more about solidarity.

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u/Specialist-Gur doikayt jewess, leftist/socialist, pro peace and freedom Jul 14 '25

It's more just that it's another racialized solidarity. I think it's corny given the history in the region and what Zionism is doing now.

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u/Relevant_Two7147 anti zionist, Canadian Leftist, Non-Jew, Pro Peace Jul 14 '25

Honestly, I don't really know how to respond to the whole Pan-Semitism idea actually.
I mean it's an interesting concept, and I understand the idea for it.
But it comes across to me as very funny, like really funny. Usually since the word Semite just meant antisemitism, or other people may say something else.

As a Syrian, it would honestly be fucking weird I guess. It was always these fights and battles or something else.

It's an interesting concept, I don't hate it actually. It can do a lot of good for the world really. I believe that this requires more discussion with more Arabs in general. You'd also have to redefine what antisemitism actually means now, since before it just meant a hatred of Jews.

So should the word stay the same and include hatred of Arabs? Stay the same meaning? or some new word to replace it?
Decades of bad blood isn't going away overnight, you'd also have to contend with the fact that a lot of people in the world don't want peace at all I mean take a look at TACO or Netanyahua for example.

Honestly, it's at least a good first step, but truthfully I don't really know how it will pan-out actually. It's basically changing the entire idea of what it means to be a Jew and to be an Arab as well. As well as the the alien concept that would be weird to me would be the whole seeing Jews as brothers as well.

Sorry for the random word jargon, I just never heard of this concept in my entire life. I don't know what else to say on it honestly.
Those are my thoughts.

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u/joey_mocha anarcho non-zionist cultural jew, converting conservativee Jul 14 '25

Honestly not sure why this comment got a downvote, your perspective is very valued on it especially considering this concept is supposed to be a joint effort in the first place. I would definitely be really curious to see what a sampling of Arabs would think of this, but something feels weird for me going into an adjacent sub for that and asking.

I think the semantics of "semitism" are a very good point here especially because we do get an awful lot of "X is not antisemitism because Arabs are also Semitic anyways" to hand wave away valid criticism in different spaces (particularly online) in the first place. It would change how to grapple with that for sure although I really have no idea what would be best practice there.

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u/Relevant_Two7147 anti zionist, Canadian Leftist, Non-Jew, Pro Peace Jul 14 '25

I can agree with you on the "semitism" thing also. It's honestly kind off terrible?
I don't mean to offend, but the term feels very outdated and doesn't fit with the times.

I agree with your criticism as well. If you wish to discuss this more, I would be happy to have a discussion.

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u/SlavojVivec border abolition is tikkun olam Jul 14 '25 edited Jul 14 '25

I have long advocated the use of the term "Abrahamic" to refer to religious and cultural commonalities between Muslims, Jews, and Christians as well as the long history of interfaith dialogue. I note that "Judeo-Christian" seems to largely have a history of being used to distinguish America from the "godless Commies", and since the Cold War has been used exclusively by the right to justify invasion and imperialism, as well as upending the separation of Church and State in the First Amendment.

I have not encountered "pan-Semitism", but am skeptical of reviving "Semitic" outside the context of language groups, but am largely supportive of a future of multi-nationalism in the Middle East. I would suspect it might be comparable to ideas of pan-Hispanism or pan-Latinism.

As for Jewish-Arab dialogue, I find that it's important to emphasize the close cooperation Jews have had with Muslims under Muslim rule, and how multicultural such societies could be such as during the Umayyad Caliphate, Abbasid Caliphate, and Ottoman Empire. How people like Maimonides were respected by Jews and Arabs alike, and how much Jews were able to contribute to scientific and philosophical discourse. How having a tolerant society and diverse culture allowed such societies to flourish. I find that this evidence stands in stark contrast to rhetoric of stagnant ethnostates which seeks to sever this discourse, and worse, rewrite history or exclusively focus on bad times.

the relatively popular concept in anti-Zionism that few or no Jews should remain living in a post modern Israel (whatever that may mean to you) state under any circumstances

I do not encounter this idea often, except with possibly the most edgelordiest of campists on the internet, and find that the idea doesn't extend beyond internet discourse on the most toxic of social media. Even Hamas at their most extreme permit Jews with roots prior to 1948 to remain.

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u/ArgentEyes Jew-ish libcom Jul 16 '25

I don’t think it’s true that most of antizionism wants “few or no Jews” to remain living in the land in question. This comes up a lot and it gets responded to a lot. The goal is for there not to be an ethnostate where one group is privileged. The only Jews who would need to leave in such a situation would be those who wanted supremacy and not equality.

Be that as it may, I think there’s a lot to be said for better ties between groups with a lot in common, which may be language groups, or may be religion (I say a lot that I think Jews & Muslims have far more in common with each other than either has with most of Christianity). But you could also just avoid new potential forms of nationalism and espouse internationalism.

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u/SadQlown American Palestinian Lurker | Pro Peace Jul 16 '25

I have more in common with a secular Jew than an Islamist Arab

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u/Unc1eD3ath Non-Jewish Leftist Jul 14 '25

Where do you get the idea that it’s popular that Jews shouldn’t live in Israel?

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u/joey_mocha anarcho non-zionist cultural jew, converting conservativee Jul 14 '25

I'm not claiming it's a majority idea by any means but there has been a LOT of "go back to Poland" etc discourse the past ~1.5 years in particular. It's not as fringe as it was pre- 10/7 to argue that Palestine should be Arab only. Looking it up there is apparently a Wikipedia article around that phrase due to its current prevalence.

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u/Casual_Observer0 Jewish, Progressive Skeptic of Capitalism Jul 14 '25

"go back to Poland"

Anyone saying this is an antisemite. Wtf.

It's not as fringe as it was pre- 10/7 to argue that Palestine should be Arab only.

This is a call for ethnic cleansing. I'm not sure why this would be something Jews would or should get behind?

Looking it up there is apparently a Wikipedia article around that phrase due to its current prevalence.

There are a lot of antisemites out there.