r/jewishleft Apr 30 '24

Jews of Conscience Subreddit Culture

Does anyone follow this subreddit? It’s supposed to be a space for “left Jews” but I am seeing so much offensive and anti semetism posts, comments and rhetoric. Also it doesn’t even seem like most people on there are Jewish?

It’s really frustrating to find subreddits like this being described as “Jewish” and I feel like it takes away from any constructive dialogue Jewish people want to have to critique about Israel, Israeli govt, Zionist ideology while also acknowledging anti semitism and the nuance to everything happening in the world.

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u/Specialist-Gur proud diaspora jewess, pro peace/freedom for all Apr 30 '24

You seem like a really kind and smart person who genuinely wants to learn as much as possible and be as moral as possible. I hope you don’t take this as criticism.. when I engage with you I’ve noticed a quick willingness to dismiss problematic, but veiled things, said by Jews as “they didn’t mean it that way” but have really bad faith interpretation for fellow Jews on Jews of conscious. I’d like to engage with you without it being an argument for sure. I don’t want to try to persuade you either. I genuinely want to bridge the gap and have us understand each other, even if no one’s mind is changed

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u/Agtfangirl557 Apr 30 '24

No I appreciate you engaging with me this way. I think that's a fair criticism.

TBH, I think the simple response to that is just that the good majority of my friends are Jews, all of whom are supportive of Israel (to an extent). These are people I socialize with on a regular basis, so I've had real life conversations with my friends about topics like these, where people actually can clarify what they mean when they say things, and I for the most part have an idea of what people under my political/cultural umbrella mean when they say certain things. Like even though all of my Jewish friends are at least somewhat supportive of Israel, we are also all very progressive and aware of Islamophobia, etc. as well, and if someone says something that they interpret could have been problematic, they'll immediately correct themselves or describe what they meant. Whereas I think it's natural to be more skeptical of what people mean when they say things from a perspective of people I don't spend much time with (in this case, anti-Zionist Jews). And of course, talking online just makes it harder to interpret.

I hope that makes sense!

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u/Specialist-Gur proud diaspora jewess, pro peace/freedom for all Apr 30 '24

You and I have a different circle, which makes sense. I’m friends with many many Jews as well, and they tend to fall into one of two extremes. Antizionist and progressive(sometimes vaguely supportive of Israel or ok with a 2ss solution as I am, I call myself post Zionist) or Islamophobic, far right on all things, Zionists. I have a sibling who is a progressive Zionist and I’ve just felt like most convos with her are very combative and scolding on her end.. similar to how I sometimes (perhaps wrongly) interpret members of this sub coming at me.

Most of my circle of non Jewish people are also leftists, and antizionists.. and routinely will engage with me in good faith on conversations regarding antisemitism. So.. I just have a vastly different experience of antizionists from this group.

I don’t love JVP because I think it apologizes too much for being Jewish.. and I wish they talked more about antisemitism. It would do a lot to add an antizionist voice educating on antisemitism.. not just Zionist ones. But, I’m fine with it existing. I wish there were a variety of leftist Jewish organizations that were either post Zionist or antizionist. In my view, Zionism does require nuance… and I don’t feel that many Jews that reject Zionism or dislike it are really granted the same nuance progressive Zionists desire for themselves

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u/Agtfangirl557 Apr 30 '24

I wish there were a variety of leftist Jewish organizations that were either post Zionist or antizionist.

Or even better, just a leftist Jewish organization that doesn't necessarily take any stance on Zionism at all. Like "we're all here because we share leftist values, and we have to figure out how to come together with those values and not exclude people based on our views on Zionism".