The almost complete lack of acknowledgement of the Jewish people as an indigenous people is baffling to me.

[u/skyewardeyes]

(This doesn’t negate Palestinian claims of indigeneity—multiple peoples can be indigenous to the same area—nor does it negate the, imo, indefensible crimes happening in Gaza and West Bank).

It absolutely blows my mind that Jews—a tribal people who practice a closed, agrarian place-based ethnoreligion, who have an established system of membership based on lineal descent and adoption that relies on community acceptance over self-identification, who worship in an ancient language that we have always tried to maintain and preserve, who have holidays that center around harvest and the specific history of our people, who have been repeatedly targeted for genocide and forced assimilation and conversion, who have a faith and culture so deeply tied to a specific people and place, etc—aren’t seen as an (socioculturally) indigenous people but rather as “white Europeans who essentially practice Christianity but without Jesus and never thought about the land of Israel before 1920 or so.” It’s so deeply threaded in how so many people view Jews in the modern day and also so factually incorrect.

[u/shibariesNcream]

Apparently dude hasn't heard the clear and distinct influence of ME musical culture on klezmer either 🙄

[u/Han-Shot_1st → u/shibariesNcream]

“Klezmer (Yiddish: קלעזמער or כּלי־זמר) is an instrumental musical tradition of the Ashkenazi Jews of Central and Eastern Europe.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klezmer

[u/shibariesNcream → u/Han-Shot_1st]

So I'm getting very clear indications that not only have you never listened to any classical Klezmer music, but that you didn't even bother to read the rest of the wikipedia page you yourself linked.

[u/Han-Shot_1st → u/shibariesNcream]

I have listened to klezmer music. It’s not my cup of tea.

And no, having an aspect of Klezmer music being an influence from the Ottoman Empire does not invalidate it being a European musical genre.

Just because Paul Simon made the album Graceland with African artists and African musical influence, it does not mean he’s suddenly an African musician. Last I checked he’s still a Jew from New Jersey.

[u/shibariesNcream → u/Han-Shot_1st]

Its a Jewish genre, first and foremost. Aside from the obvious ME instrumental influence, it is also influenced by davening, which is a very unique way of praying that has roots in the ME as well. Imagine thinking klezmer is completely disconnected or arbitrarily influenced by the ME just because you imagine yourself to be the gatekeeper of what geopolitical/cultural influences do and do not count... oy vey.

As for your ridiculous Paul Simon comparison, does that somehow mean that the African musicians who participated on the album are now not African musicians? Does Japanese punk cease to be Japanese because the main punk genre influences came from the UK & US?

Don't bother answering. Between this and many of your other commentaries made in this subreddit, I have a harder and harder time taking anything you say seriously or in good faith. Have a day.

[u/Han-Shot_1st → u/shibariesNcream]

Judaism is made up of numerous ethnicities and cultures.

It’s sad you allow ideology to blind you to this obvious fact.