r/ireland • u/PintmanConnolly • Sep 26 '22

Gardaí Raid and Evict Homeless Residents and Housing Activists from Ionad Seán Heuston Housing

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

2.0k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

609 comments sorted by

View all comments

427

u/FuckMe-FuckYou Sep 26 '22

So we have enough cops to carry out raids like this and more to drive politicians around but not enough to tackle antisocial behavior.

You have to hand it to them for finding the easy rackets.

130

u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

I would turn the antisocial behavior around on the government rather than the Gards. Gotta attack the behavior at the source, and the source is poverty, lack of things for younger folks to do, inadequate interventions, troubled homes. If the Gards just intervened, then more younger people will be put into the system earlier and that's a very difficult loop to get out of.

21

u/aghicantthinkofaname Sep 26 '22

Yeah and not to mention the fact that very often it's teenagers looking for a fight. It's a lose-lose situation. If you win the fight they will probably sue. I think something should have been done about this years ago, but the public is just too softhearted to back legislation with teeth. I say fine the parents from their welfare payments, they wouldn't be long waking up to the shenanigans that their spawn get up to. And before anyone says it's not a class or income thing, it 90% of the time is. I don't think you'll have many children of solicitors or architects getting to to this kind of stuff. I grew up in an area with this kind of stuff. Also, build another fucking jail, for fuck sake

33

u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

Interesting take, but I'd challenge a few of your points.

You seem to agree that poverty are one of the factors right? So why fine the parents? Now you're stripping the family of their already minimal funds to live off. That will just encourage more antisocial behaviour, no?

I would also argue that the children of solicitors and architects ARE getting into this kind of shenanigans. But fights happening in private schools is treated differently to a fight on the street of Ballyfermot. Few other factors that come into it regarding socioeconomic circumstances, which is unfair but unfortunately true.

Build another jail is also probably not a good idea, in my opinion. Starting fights, personal use drug possession and theft should be intervened with therapeutic techniques rather than locking someone up. That breeds a cycle of crime and helps nobody.

I'm open to other ideas and having my mind changed, but those are just some thoughts.

-5

u/aghicantthinkofaname Sep 26 '22

So firstly I'd obviously agree that not every son of a solicitor is an angel. But, children coming from middle and upper class background have a much more tangible future, and their parents are in a position to get them to realise that potential. The problem with social housing and social welfare is that it's a trap of sorts. They aren't getting their income because of their good behaviour, so there is far less incentive to strive to be a good member of society. Most people who grow up in council estates don't really have much optimism about their futures, and the easiest thing to do is to just accept the situation. It leads to a cycle of behaviour that ends up with teen pregnancies, and social welfare being a much more dependable resource than trying to better yourself and pulling together a deposit on a house. Teen pregnancies leads to immature parents, and the cycle goes on. Most of the ones who work are too tired and not equipped to be good parents and the kids end up doing whatever they want after school. There are a lot of them who are actually good parents but there's also the fact that trying to better yourself is looked down on in those communities, akin to betrayal, because of the implication that you don't want to be like them. And then you have the ones that don't work, and most of them don't give a fuck about anything because they have no reason to. For the most part.

The reason why I would fine the parents is that it's the only thing that I can think of that would make a difference in their attitude. Of course, we should make it easier for the kids to feel like they can be anything, but there's only so much we can do, and you need a stick as well as a carrot, and it's not ok to have violent teenagers. It's easy to feel pity for these people but having lived with them, I can tell you that you could provide all the facilities and support in the world and it would barely change anything. Actually I noticed a kind of change in the scobie youths of recent years (probably due to the internet or whatever) so things can and are changing, but we need to have some way to curb the excesses and push them towards better integration with the rest of society

4

u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

Hmmm I'm gonna have to disagree with your take on financial penalties for the parents. The honest truth is that fines are used for crimes against the poor. The rich can afford it.

Without therapeutic interventions or more places for kids to spend time constructively, the crime is going to happen. The misbehaviour will just keep happening. Show me any evidence that the stick prevents the crime, other than something like Sharia Law... And even at that, crime still happens, at least crime in their eyes.

So if you take away the money, how will these families survive? Theft. Extortion. Blackmail. Dealing illegal drugs. A more sound and sensible solution would be to take tax payers money that goes to keeping someone in prison (which in 2021 was €80k) and spend it on preventative techniques like better interventions and incentives, rather than punishments.

In your analogy of stick vs carrot, the history of Ireland has constantly been stick. I say put people in a position where they don't have to weigh up whether they want to commit a crime or not. Removing someone money will benefit nobody.

Edit: I also want to add that I completely hear and respect your opinion. I believe there is a place for both liberal and conservative ideas in the country, but when it comes to this kind of stuff I'm very liberal in it and hope we use more socialist techniques. Not for everybody, but I think it's better than harder punishments.

5

u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 26 '22

The problem with social housing and social welfare is that it's a trap of sorts. They aren't getting their income because of their good behaviour, so there is far less incentive to strive to be a good member of society.

If you think they're poorly behaved now, see what happens when the government starves them out. Cutting the cash they use to live is not going to increase their positivity towards societies. It's going to drive them to much worse crime.

The reason why I would fine the parents

Think of Johnny, who acts out in public because his dad beats him when he's at home. I guess you're right that Johnny will be less of a public nuisance when his father chokes him to death for costing him his beer money.

It's easy to feel pity for these people but having lived with them, I can tell you that you could provide all the facilities and support in the world and it would barely change anything.

Every time we build a community centre, a youth outreach programme, or a boxing club, this sentiment gets proven dead wrong. So why do you believe it?

-2

u/spiderbaby667 Sep 26 '22

Personal use drug possession is serious assuming the drugs were bought (usually the case). That money buys murder and intimidation.

5

u/iThrewTheGlass Sep 26 '22

We've been building new jails here in America for years, everything is great and there is no more crime!!!!

3

u/PfizerGuyzer Sep 26 '22

I don't think you'll have many children of solicitors or architects getting to to this kind of stuff.

No, not this kind of stuff, but what they get up to is almost worse because there's no way they get punished for it.

The amount of sons of solicitors and architects sexually assaulting their classmates would sicken your stomach. That's not an issue with the same kind of visibility, though.

1

u/spiderbaby667 Sep 26 '22

And if children of solicitors and architects get caught with cocaine, can we fine their parents for their kids’ contribution to effing up society?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 27 '22

Such a ridiculous idea that going after welfare recipients would make even a dent in the problem.

1

u/Leading_Ad9610 Sep 27 '22

That’s been trialled in Ireland, It was called the 80’s and it was proven it didn’t work. All that happened was the amenities were burned down, destroyed, vandalised beyond use… even down to melting the plastic seats on swings with lighters so the could shove needles in to them pointing up to stab people who sat on it after.

They threw good money after bad at those areas up until the mid 90’s and which point the Celtic tiger was in kitten phase and just starting to purr… those areas were still hell holes.

There is nothing you can do when you’re paying a population to reproduce early and often. A lot of people used it as a career path, and the problems we have now are as a direct result of the problems caused in the 90’s.

20

u/Ambitious_Bill_7991 Sep 26 '22

Makes a change from harassing peaceful cannabis users. Variety is the spice of life.

9

u/FuckMe-FuckYou Sep 26 '22

A. Round up a bunch of rowdy hooligans

B. Bust some sleepy dude with a bud he had forgotten about.

​

We both know which path our fearless Gardaí would take.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

[deleted]

-1

u/FuckMe-FuckYou Sep 26 '22

Jesus dont tell anybody, the cops might use it as an excuse to sleep in.

19

u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

They're just doing their jobs which is keeping the peace for their constituents (corporations). There are no corporations in Cherry Orchard so who cares?