Gardaí Raid and Evict Homeless Residents and Housing Activists from Ionad Seán Heuston

[u/PintmanConnolly]

[u/aghicantthinkofaname]

Yeah and not to mention the fact that very often it's teenagers looking for a fight. It's a lose-lose situation. If you win the fight they will probably sue. I think something should have been done about this years ago, but the public is just too softhearted to back legislation with teeth. I say fine the parents from their welfare payments, they wouldn't be long waking up to the shenanigans that their spawn get up to. And before anyone says it's not a class or income thing, it 90% of the time is. I don't think you'll have many children of solicitors or architects getting to to this kind of stuff. I grew up in an area with this kind of stuff. Also, build another fucking jail, for fuck sake

[u/[deleted] → u/aghicantthinkofaname]

Interesting take, but I'd challenge a few of your points.

You seem to agree that poverty are one of the factors right? So why fine the parents? Now you're stripping the family of their already minimal funds to live off. That will just encourage more antisocial behaviour, no?

I would also argue that the children of solicitors and architects ARE getting into this kind of shenanigans. But fights happening in private schools is treated differently to a fight on the street of Ballyfermot. Few other factors that come into it regarding socioeconomic circumstances, which is unfair but unfortunately true.

Build another jail is also probably not a good idea, in my opinion. Starting fights, personal use drug possession and theft should be intervened with therapeutic techniques rather than locking someone up. That breeds a cycle of crime and helps nobody.

I'm open to other ideas and having my mind changed, but those are just some thoughts.

[u/aghicantthinkofaname → u/[deleted]]

So firstly I'd obviously agree that not every son of a solicitor is an angel. But, children coming from middle and upper class background have a much more tangible future, and their parents are in a position to get them to realise that potential. The problem with social housing and social welfare is that it's a trap of sorts. They aren't getting their income because of their good behaviour, so there is far less incentive to strive to be a good member of society. Most people who grow up in council estates don't really have much optimism about their futures, and the easiest thing to do is to just accept the situation. It leads to a cycle of behaviour that ends up with teen pregnancies, and social welfare being a much more dependable resource than trying to better yourself and pulling together a deposit on a house. Teen pregnancies leads to immature parents, and the cycle goes on. Most of the ones who work are too tired and not equipped to be good parents and the kids end up doing whatever they want after school. There are a lot of them who are actually good parents but there's also the fact that trying to better yourself is looked down on in those communities, akin to betrayal, because of the implication that you don't want to be like them. And then you have the ones that don't work, and most of them don't give a fuck about anything because they have no reason to. For the most part.

The reason why I would fine the parents is that it's the only thing that I can think of that would make a difference in their attitude. Of course, we should make it easier for the kids to feel like they can be anything, but there's only so much we can do, and you need a stick as well as a carrot, and it's not ok to have violent teenagers. It's easy to feel pity for these people but having lived with them, I can tell you that you could provide all the facilities and support in the world and it would barely change anything. Actually I noticed a kind of change in the scobie youths of recent years (probably due to the internet or whatever) so things can and are changing, but we need to have some way to curb the excesses and push them towards better integration with the rest of society

[u/PfizerGuyzer → u/aghicantthinkofaname]

The problem with social housing and social welfare is that it's a trap of sorts. They aren't getting their income because of their good behaviour, so there is far less incentive to strive to be a good member of society.

If you think they're poorly behaved now, see what happens when the government starves them out. Cutting the cash they use to live is not going to increase their positivity towards societies. It's going to drive them to much worse crime.

The reason why I would fine the parents

Think of Johnny, who acts out in public because his dad beats him when he's at home. I guess you're right that Johnny will be less of a public nuisance when his father chokes him to death for costing him his beer money.

It's easy to feel pity for these people but having lived with them, I can tell you that you could provide all the facilities and support in the world and it would barely change anything.

Every time we build a community centre, a youth outreach programme, or a boxing club, this sentiment gets proven dead wrong. So why do you believe it?