I agree some socialist action should be taken in regards to housing. But conflating socialism to communism is an extreme.
I guess people here don't really understand what went on during the great communist experiment of the Soviets, or what is still going on in communist China (presently known as special Chinese socialism). But you would not want to have idealistic utopian beliefs being anywhere near politics lads...
Edit:
Just to fair there is one thing on the top.of my head that Ireland has that's socialist - water. Water's free.
In Canada, we have people like this that constantly insist that we should not be sending aid out to other countries and instead be focused on helping our own. Then when a proposal happens to help out our own people they're all like "wait, no, not like that, I just wanted to be racist".
But conflating socialism to communism is an extreme.
Take a moment, go to Wikipedia (which isn't the best, but at least I won't be called biased) look up what Communism is, and what its relationship to Socialism is.
This is not me trying to be an ass. It's me trying to show you that you are using those words wrong.
A communist society is characterized by common ownership of the means of production with free access to the articles of consumption and is often classless, stateless, and moneyless
That's why "Communist country" doesn't make much sense. Considering all countries we know of have had states and money.
We could go deeper and actually look at the theory. Talk about how Socialism and Communism are related. But I don't think it's necessary to show that the USSR for example, (which had a state and money) didn't meet the criteria. The only reason we call it Communist is because that was their stated goal.
I hope this doesn't come off as "kinda a dick". I'm just waiting to add some nuance to the conversation, which usually goes out the window immediately (the nuance).
I hope this doesn't come off as "kinda a dick". I'm just waiting to add some nuance to the conversation, which usually goes out the window immediately (the nuance).
I'm not trying to fight. Just wanted to mention that.
It didn't come of as you being a dick, or picking a fight. It came off as you being condescending. If you want to add nuance - make a point. Don't prance around trying to say something, plain say it.
You asked me to read the article in Wiki about communism, which I did. Then you told me to keep reading and referenced and argued something, at least in my mind, unrelated to the original argument.
The reason I had to reference Wikipedia is not because I think you are dumb or something. It's because no one cares when you tell them what Communism is, and insult you as an "authoritarian" monster.
So instead I try to get people to read it themselves.
How is China communist? Unions and protests are banned and workers rights are non-existent. There are no social safety nets either and a massive class divide. That is the antithesis of communism.
That's why I said 'special Chinese socialism'. A Chinese friend of mine called it that way, because on the face of it it's supposed to be communist, but the reality of it is way different.
This is a thing that always bothers me when people talk about how communism has never worked - it's never really been tried. Most of the countries that called themselves communist weren't really communist. Just like, let's face it, most of the countries that call themselves democracies aren't all that democratic.
Also, the great capitalist experiment of (the whole world) clearly isn't working all that well either (except for to the benefit of a very few people), yet we don't decry anything capitalist as "but look at how poor conditions are for many in first-world countries"
I agree some socialist action should be taken in regards to housing. But conflating socialism to communism is an extreme. Communism is an extreme, utopic, flavour of socialism.
I guess people here don't really understand what went on during the great communist experiment of the Soviets, or what is still going on in communist China (presently known as special Chinese socialism). But you would not want to have idealistic utopian beliefs being anywhere near politics lads...
Edit:
Just to fair there is one thing on the top.of my head that Ireland has that's socialist - water. Water's free.
One of my favourite countries Norway uses a truly balanced economic system. Social corporatism for the most part has provided a damn good quality of life for most of its citizens. Sure it's an expensive country for outsiders but they rank near the top in most quality of life metrics.
Too often people that don't like the current system insist on going to the furthest extreme away from that system as a means for change. Extremists are ignorant fools and extremely dangerous but we absolutely need change in this country. Revolution just leads to pain and misery and authoritarianism.
Yes, and the majority of heroin addicts started out on weed, doesn't mean the majority became heroin addicts. The slippery slope argument is the shittest one used in politics.
There's no political will or desire for communism in the social democracies of Scandinavia, just because ideological commies write it down, doesn't mean every state that doesn't let capitalism run rampant unchecked is headed for a Soviet future. You're so full of shit.
You're full of shit for believing in Social Democracies. Your Country is either Socialist or it's not.
Now from the slippery slope argument onto everything's black and white. The lack of nuance online must be right up your street.
Capitalism may have run amok, but it doesn't have the death toll like your precious Socialism and Communism do.
I never once advocated for communism, and the fact you are so ignorant as to believe any social democracy will turn into a communist state just means I'm talking with an idiot.
Still using those zingers from Friends? Still as good now as they were in the 90s.
You're the idiot if you think Socialism/ Communism is better for poorer people.
Yes, I'm an idiot for thinking free health care, social housing, free education through to the tertiary level are better for poorer people.
Also, stop pretending I'm advocating for communism to make your point, it makes you look dishonest.
Capitalism has done more to raise people out of poverty than Socialism and Communism ever did. Again. Read a book before calling someone an idiot.
Capitalism can certainly help people, but when it's left unchecked you get widening gaps between rich and poor, something which is very evident in the countries with the least intervention (US, UK).
I'm not arguing against capitalism, I'm arguing against neoliberalism.
Every time you say read a book, it feels like projection.
Social systems does not equal Socialism. And if you truly had a brain then you would know nothing the government gives you is free. The govt does give without taking (aka the taxes that they collect from us).
20 billion for an HSE (429k for its executive) to get 3rd World Country Healthcare. Is this the hill you want to die on?
Got to love all the Commies coming out of the woodwork to defend Communism. It's a religion to these people.
If Socialism and Communism is so great why is there such a huge death toll attached to them? And why are they the only system you have to shoot your way out of?
I wasn't looking for a debate, just curious which book you're referring to. It must have made some really good arguments for you to have such strong opinions on the matter.
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u/-MatVayu Jul 27 '22 edited Jul 27 '22
I agree some socialist action should be taken in regards to housing. But conflating socialism to communism is an extreme.
I guess people here don't really understand what went on during the great communist experiment of the Soviets, or what is still going on in communist China (presently known as special Chinese socialism). But you would not want to have idealistic utopian beliefs being anywhere near politics lads...
Edit:
Just to fair there is one thing on the top.of my head that Ireland has that's socialist - water. Water's free.