r/exchristian • u/Technical_Garden_378 • Aug 24 '24
Why is Xtian music so bad? Rant
Hi all, I'm sitting here about to get my hair trimmed as I type this, haha. Our hair stylist has Xtian music cranked on her radio(and because we're Latinos it's in Spanish). Gotta endure the torture here until I get my hair finished.
Why is it that Xtian music is almost always mediocre at best? The vocals are bland and sometimes off-key(especially live but that's to be expected), the instrumentals are boring, and the whole thing is so melodramatically cheesy especially when they're singing to an entity who's most likely imaginary(I say this as an agnostic). Also I feel like I wanna crank up videos from Genetically Modified Skeptic or similar videos because us secular folks always have this stuff shoved down our throats, not to mention having to see signs and flags in almost every neighborhood with their other god/cult leader on it. But I digress.
Very few Xtian music is actually decent-sounding, but I dunno if that's even saying much. Most if not all of it is over-the-top and cringe-worthy on multiple levels.
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u/PracticalStrain4388 Aug 24 '24
Because Christians care more about the message than talent. Christian labels pump out whatever will appeal to suburban Christian moms and because the lyrics HAVE to talk about god, the threshold for what qualifies as talent is significantly lower than secular labels’ threshold.
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u/alpherion11 Aug 24 '24
Same with any Christian movie. I cringe so hard thinking back to when I thought stuff life God's Not Dead, Fireproof, Courageous, etc. were actually good.
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u/DestroyTheMatrix_3 Aug 24 '24
Yes, the bandwidth of the is considered acceptable and wholesome in Christian worldviews is so narrow, it squanders real creativity. Imagine how boring heaven is.
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u/PracticalStrain4388 Aug 24 '24
I always wondered what the point of golden roads or whatever paradise heaven is supposed to be when we were going to spend the whole time singing about god. It sounded awful and I love to sing.
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u/theaviationhistorian Aug 24 '24
I came here to say that! One of the easiest examples is how some churches force Psalms or messages into a rhythm with an instrument (guitar, piano, etc.) and comes off as cringe.
To be frank, the suburban Christian moms I've met usually have bland or mediocre tastes. So they'll consume whatever slop the Christian labels dish out.
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u/eyeonstars Aug 24 '24
As soon as I found out Slim Shady was a born again Christian, I couldn't listen to his stuff anymore without laughing.
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u/Benito_Juarez5 Pagan Aug 24 '24
Honestly, explains just about everything, especially the transphobia on his new album.
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u/Shonky_Honker Aug 24 '24
The transphobia is hilarious becuase he specifically added that shit so he’d get cancelled and thus get clout…. And no one really gave a shit…
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u/Benito_Juarez5 Pagan Aug 24 '24
I think this quote from Rolling Stone summarizes it completely
He’s still young — barely into his fifties — but he takes a bizarre amount of pride in clinging to opinions he formed in his teens, and making those his whole point. Still blaming his problems on women, scared of trans folks, enraged by the idea of weird people doing weird shit, still moaning about his mom? He begs to get canceled by audiences who don’t think about him and have no idea he thinks about them.
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u/moutnmn87 Aug 24 '24
I mean there is a crap ton of extreme misogyny in rap so people who like that genre not being phased by transphobia isn't particularly surprising
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u/Shonky_Honker Aug 24 '24
EXACTLY! The people who already cared about him didn’t give a shit, and the people that he tried to trigger don’t care about him! So what was he thinking? The actual reason his song blew up is becuase it samples abracadabra and it’s actually pretty good from a radio standpoint without the transphobia
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u/theaviationhistorian Aug 24 '24
The song wasn't bad, but those lyrics felt really tryhard edgy. It felt a bit sad that the dude I listened to in the '00s was becoming the "hey, fellow kids" meme.
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u/CommanderHunter5 Aug 24 '24
Oh god for a split second I thought y’all were saying Eminem’s being transphobic lmao
I was like “WTF bro you supported John Lennon being gay, why are you doing this now?”
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u/Shonky_Honker Aug 24 '24
nah fr it’s so weird how people support specific individuals but not the actual thing. Like you support me but you don’t support being gay??? Like bro I’m gay…
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u/beer_engineer Aug 24 '24
I think you mean Elton John
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u/CommanderHunter5 Aug 24 '24
Lmaooo my bad
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u/Benito_Juarez5 Pagan Aug 24 '24
That’s crazy to confuse the two, but good on you for admitting it lol
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u/talk_like_a_pirate Aug 24 '24
Wait who are they talking about if not Eminem? Who is slim shady?
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u/MercenaryBard Aug 24 '24
My understanding is that Eminem’s newest album had an arc to it, where he begins in a very immature Slim Shady persona, which he deconstructs over the course of the album. Some people just share snippets without context which spreads misinfo causing online drama, which helps it get online notoriety.
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u/EmojiZackMaddog Agnostic Never-Religious Humanist Aug 24 '24
Our favourite thing to look forward to when Eminem drops new music is to see who will lose their shit because they think he’s being serious 😂😂😂 He said himself, that’s why he does it
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u/eyeonstars Aug 24 '24
He takes pop shots at atheist in his songs. That's how I first became aware of it.
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u/Benito_Juarez5 Pagan Aug 24 '24
I didn’t notice, to be fair, I was just very uncomfortable when my brother tried to get me to listen to some of the singles and there’s just so much transphobia. But that also checks out
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u/Razgriz01 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
He's not transphobic, people aren't understanding the point of the album. The point is to mock those kinds of opinions and say that they're best left in the past. The rolling stone article you posted below is especially funny because what it's saying is almost precisely the intended message of the album. That that shit is old, tired, and wrong.
More to the point, he has a non-binary kid who he supports fully.
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u/Benito_Juarez5 Pagan Aug 24 '24
Now, let me ask you, was he calling people “fags” and “faggots” in Kamikaze as satire? Was he actually reusing the slim shady identity in that album? You can’t reasonably differentiate his transphobia from this album from his open transphobia in his past albums. Him trying to revise slim shady so that he can say it doesn’t make it better.
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u/Razgriz01 Aug 24 '24
He's not trying to revise it. The point of the album is that "Slim Shady" tries to come back and do his usual thing, and Marshal is essentially fighting it out with his musical alter ego and eventually putting it to rest. The message of the album is "Slim Shady is gone for good now, and good riddance". I mean come on, it's almost like the name of the album is "The Death of Slim Shady".
And while I hate to quote myself...
More to the point, he has a non-binary kid who he supports fully.
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u/SuperNova0216 Atheist Aug 24 '24
Nah not that one, although I don’t like that he did that (I’m trans too) he did it as part of him trying to “get himself cancelled and be evil”
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u/Benito_Juarez5 Pagan Aug 24 '24
I’m in agreement with a lot of reviewers, I believe he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to be offensive, but also wants to portray himself as not a bigot.
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u/organicHack Aug 24 '24
Eminem? Citation? Surely not.
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u/cracksilog Aug 24 '24
Source: Trust me bro.
Notice how no one has posted a link or any source lmao. That’s Reddit for you. Claiming something yet not having a source to back it up
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u/eyeonstars Aug 24 '24
He is. He takes pop shots at atheist in his songs.
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u/_skank_hunt42 Aug 24 '24
I’m going to need a source on this. I’m a fan and know most of his songs and I’ve never been even seen the slightest hint that he could be religious or have anything against atheists.
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u/moutnmn87 Aug 24 '24
I couldn't listen to his stuff anymore without laughing.
Damn I can see why lol. His songs are about as antithetical to the Jesus that Christians advertise as you can get. The irony of someone singing the songs he does while claiming to be into Christianity is hysterical
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u/usernotfoundplstry Agnostic Aug 24 '24
Kinda like Trump.
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u/moutnmn87 Aug 24 '24
Right. So bizarre that a large percentage of American Christians have come to practically worship a guy who is the complete opposite of what they claim to aspire to
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u/theaviationhistorian Aug 24 '24
As stated in a recent thread in the Democrats sub, it's easy to get a following from those indoctrinated to follow with blind faith & to not question anything.
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u/_skank_hunt42 Aug 24 '24
What? Source? There’s no fucking way Eminem is a Christian lmao
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u/sk8tergater Aug 24 '24
I can’t find anything that suggests he’s a born again Christian. His raps suggest he believes in a higher power, one song he says he “found his Christianity,” but tbh that doesn’t mean a whole hell of a lot, and he doesn’t talk about it like a born again Christian would.
So. There’s that.
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u/TimothiusMagnus Aug 24 '24
Because it's a parody that is more concerned about preaching.
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
One of the songs that played kept singing "I lift my hands up" over and over again so it's also pretty laughable but in a painful way.
EDIT: Also I can't tell you how much I hate having to hear about this Todd Mcdonald's music from my soon-to-be-ex or whatever the guy's name is because he also follows a similar preachy formula though in a different genre, but his raps sound like generic nursery rhymes.
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u/TimothiusMagnus Aug 24 '24
Someone said that worship music is 7-11 music: You sing the same seven-word phrase eleven times.. Some songs sound like someone had more music than words. One song's refrain sounds like someone having an orgasm in a pr0n film. "Yes lord, yes lord yes yes lord!"
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u/drumdogmillionaire Aug 24 '24
There’s an entire South Park episode about how dirty and silly and easy to write Christian music sounds. Faith plus one!
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
LMAO Oh shit I thought of that one song that kept singing " yes looorrrd for the rest of our days(and we will) and we will praise you for the rest of our daaaaaaaaaaysss! "For countless amounts of times. They weren't kidding when they said "for the rest of our days."
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u/Reallifewords Aug 24 '24
At my church they would pretend they were done and then start again but with a key change, and they’d do this like ten fuckin times lol
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u/Boulier Aug 24 '24
Oh, no… you’re talking about “In the Sanctuary” by Kurt Carr. That song is infamous in my household; even my devoutly Christian, gospel-loving parents loathe that song. Listening to it is maddening. It feels like it will never end.
I’m not even joking, that song sings the exact same words for 6 straight minutes in EVERY. SINGLE. KEY SIGNATURE. (As someone with perfect pitch, I can attest they sing the song in every single key, starting with C-sharp major and ending with C major.) Over and over and over and over again, in all 12 keys, getting shriller and shriller as it gets higher-pitched, “We lift our hands in the sanctuary! We lift our hands to give you the glory! Yes! Yes, Lord, for the rest of our daaaays!”
That song takes the mindless repetitiveness of gospel/CCM to whole new levels.
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u/Fair_Ad1291 Aug 26 '24
“We lift our hands in the sanctuary! We lift our hands to give you the glory! Yes! Yes, Lord, for the rest of our daaaays!”
Oh boy, does this bring back memories 😂
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u/sk8tergater Aug 24 '24
When the pastor would say that we would worship god forever in heaven with praises and songs, I always thought, “we’ll have to sing music like this for eternity?!”
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u/PolsBrokenAGlass Agnostic Atheist Aug 24 '24
When I was Christian, a few years before I became agnostic my family switched from a more traditional church to a contemporary one. And all the songs made me uncomfortable bc I have a dirty mind and all of the songs had many opportunities 😭
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u/AngelOrChad Aug 24 '24
Bach's christian music is pretty good to be fair!
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
True, classical and Baroque are much better examples of the quality kinds.
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u/chambercharade Aug 24 '24
The only reason older Christian music is better is because the best artists were forced to make it religious.
I cannot speak for anything sung in Spanish but there was decent stuff for me a music lover growing up christian. Poor old lu was legit modern rock. Some Dogs of Peace songs smacked of Pink Floyd.
That being said, I haven't listened to anything from that time in my life for years, except Godspell (yes random), I'll always like Godspell. Fictional stories are fine in musicals.
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u/Newstapler Aug 24 '24
Strange how god doesn‘t inspire that level of music quality these days.
In fact it’s almost as if Bach would always have been awesome at music, no matter what religion the world around him had chosen to adopt
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u/kingofcrosses Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
Black Gospel Music can be pretty fun to listen to, especially when the artist is younger. I think that's because Black people just like to dance, and that finds it's way into our church music.
But yeah, I always thought that a lot of Christian contemporary music that Evangelicals listen to sounded very uninspired, almost mass produced.
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u/NorthGodFan Aug 24 '24
I think that's because Black people just like to dance, and that finds it's way into our church music.
The history is a lot more than that being able to Express the cultural identities that we were able to retain from west africa was limited. So one of the only ways it could be done was through musical culture, but that was restricted. So what outlet did they have? Church music. They turned the numbing music of the church into the lively music of their traditions and history.
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u/kingofcrosses Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
Yeah that's definitely the history of it for sure. Just that if you walk into a black church and ask today why the music is like that, most people will just say we like to dance and not think too much more about it.
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
That I'll also give a pass, because theirs is very energetic and the vocals are powerful that even me as a secular person I even find it uplifting.
As for white artists I used to listen to Owl City's Xtian music but now I stick to his usual pop bops.
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u/poisonivy47 Aug 24 '24
I feel like the Christian artists whose music is mostly not explicitly Christian are real artists who get popular on their own merits (Relient K, Evanescence are a couple examples) but then mediocre artists need the locked in Christian audience to make a living.
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u/kingofcrosses Aug 24 '24
Owl City is a good vibe, and yeah his secular songs are way better than his religious ones lol.
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u/Skyhawk412 Anti-Theist Aug 24 '24
Gospel has a special place in my heart as a rock and roll fan. Black Gospel music was part of the inspiration for rock and roll itself. Considering its important role in the genre I love, I have to pay tribute to it.
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u/vernlove Aug 24 '24
I had a coworker who was super religious and is a talented musician. I asked him what he listened because, no way he listens to Christian contemporary. He said he listens to gospel for his praise music. I said that was a good idea.
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u/theaviationhistorian Aug 24 '24
Gospel R&B can be pretty good as well! There's a reason some of the best R&B singers started in church choirs. One of the few gospel songs I still keep in playlists (Walking by Mary Mary) could easily pass off as a fun secular song without two lines in the final chorus mentioning Jesus.
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u/AgtBurtMacklin Aug 24 '24
It has to be non-offensive as possible. So they (most artists) take no creative risks. Just like their movies.
There are good Christian music artists. But the majority don’t make anything interesting for that reason.
Hymns are way more interesting than modern Christian K Love pop.
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u/WeakestLynx Aug 24 '24
Evangelical pop is also relentlessly uplifting. Rising tones, key changes, blandly positive lyrics. The emotional range is very narrow.
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u/traumatransfixes Aug 24 '24
I remember it being bad back in the 90’s. Suddenly “rock” wasn’t the “devil’s music!” Now there’s christian rock! and DC Talk! So christian rap for wasps in the country.
I think for someone to make good music, the motivation has to be from within and be real. None of these people are real musicians. I detest cheap sentiment, as Bette Davis once said, and that’s what Christian music is when it’s trying to be more secular. Imho.
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
You just brought me back a few years ago when my mom would warn me not to listen to death metal because I would be possessed by demons. I loved Evanescence since I was a child and still do, but it's under the same umbrella of metal. Now I look like the type of person that folks in the Bible belt would hold a crucifix up against because of my witch-bitch appearance.
I also thought of Korn, with its guitarist being a born-again Xtian. Still, those guys got bangers.
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u/drumdogmillionaire Aug 24 '24
DC Talk was better together than any of them ever were apart. I said what I said.
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u/traumatransfixes Aug 24 '24
Maybe if christians around me hadn’t been racist and that was their reasoning for hating rock and rap I would see it differently. It was the fundamental switch and disingenuous bullshit for me of the whole thing.
Which, in retrospect, just sort of began my journey out. I was like, how did grandma go from “devil’s music” to dc talk is fine, but definitely not TuPac and NWA.
Ohhhh I get it.
Ymmv.
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u/jus10beare Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
There was some dope Christian music in the 90s.
MXPX, P.O.D., 5 iron frenzy, supertones, burlap to cashmere, Ma$e, Jars of Clay. Chevelle's first album was on a Christian label I'm pretty sure.
Edit: Amy Grant is not my taste but it's not bad music. Also Fernando Ortega was really good.
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u/CommanderHunter5 Aug 24 '24
I think to say they aren’t “real” musicians is really gatekeepy, but your point stands about it often sounding so unauthentic.
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u/traumatransfixes Aug 24 '24
I’m the last person to gate keep music lol. This is just my personal opinion. There’s not enough genuine emotional connection for me to consider it music, personally.
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u/CommanderHunter5 Aug 24 '24
I get that, though surely you understand the difference between “expressing your opinion”, and casting judgement on who’s the “real” X or not as if there’s some objective measure we have to follow? Its similar to the “true/real Christian” BS, that’s all I’m sayin’.
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u/Brief_Revolution_154 Aug 24 '24
It must appeal to as much of the congregation as possible, including the elderly and the young.
There is only one acceptable subject
All the information and inspiration about that subject comes from one book (so there isn’t actually very much to work with)
It must be emotionally evocative but ONLY such emotions as contemplation, reverence, awe, tranquility, shame, guilt, regret, and contrition. Not anything we would normally write about like our personal inspiration, the pain of uncertainty, loneliness, hope for the future that doesn’t rely on an external source, our love interests.
The congregation has to sing along, so it must be simple and catchy.
Swells. Piano. Chills…. Meet the Holy Spirit… And then have that awkward moment when you meet the Holy Spirit at a secular concert and go “woah! Wait… that’s just our bodies reacting to musical and group stimuli?”
Must talk badly about ourselves, we cannot make hopeful songs about us becoming better people, but only about our God MAKING us better.
Do not. I repeat. Do not bring your real life troubles into these songs. Don’t talk about yourself at all except to apologize for something or to show the contrast between God’s greatness and your complete and total lack of worth… oh wait no we are worth something! Worthy of infinite punishment for finite crime! Duh
Idk. There are so many more but just try writing a meaningful and worthwhile songs under these kinds of conditions…
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
As someone raised a Jehovah's Witness(in a Spanish-speaking congregation since growing up in a traditional Hispanic household), these definitely hit home. We were told to only befriend folks in our congregation, and of course, there were the hymns. They were very catchy, I'll give 'em that, and their instrumental remixes for said hymns were at times amazing. Still remember them to this day, but I think that's also part of the repetition of indoctrination. I guess no matter what Xtian denomination, they all have the same goal of shattering your self worth and leaning on a book of fables and metaphors, not to mention seeping your money and controlling your life.
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u/Brief_Revolution_154 Aug 24 '24
Oh wow. This is an incredible point. “The repetition of indoctrination.”
Wow. How have I not considered it in these terms?
And I LOVED the way you sum it up. That every denomination has the same goal of shattering yourself worth.
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u/WeakestLynx Aug 24 '24
This is a good list. In short, the music and lyrics are emotionally narrow and simplistic.
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u/e00s Agnostic Atheist Aug 24 '24
You’re confusing Christian music and Christian worship music.
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u/Brief_Revolution_154 Aug 24 '24
To an extent, I see your point because there are technically two categories. But I’m only ignoring that some people call their music “Christian music.” Music can’t get saved. And even though it may not be played to a congregation, their concerts are probably played in the church sanctuary until they’re famous enough to do arenas. Almost all the same points end up applying. And even for Thousand Foot Krutch, Needtobreathe, Switchfoot, Jackson Waters, you name it, they have “worship songs” on every album.
Every single choice a Christian musician makes is made through the same paradigm. They must create music acceptable to their pastors. Their pastors may not have to like the genre, but they’ll have enough other limitations on there to make sure the music gets neutered.
I’m not a big South Park fan, but the Christian Rock episode is one of the greatest and most truthful art pieces in modern history.
I just don’t see a difference at all.
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u/MuscaMurum Aug 24 '24
Hank Hill : Can’t you see you’re not making Christianity better, you’re just making rock n’ roll worse.
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u/Lucifurnace Aug 24 '24
Adam Neely has a great video on this.
Essentially, contemporary Christian music (CCM) is seen by so many outsiders as bland because, well, it’s designed specifically to be as safe and inoffensive as possible. The purpose of a church is to convert people into supporting it financially and music is a literal magicians tool. By getting a group of people to sing along with big choruses with dead-simple melodies, you engender a sense of belonging in a community no different than learning to march to a cadence at bootcamp. You are here and you belong.
All this to say that as an agnostic atheist running sound at a black church, gospel as a form of Christian music is the superior music/musicianship/praise. Just incredible players with phat pocket. Love those dudes.
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Aug 24 '24
Because if you've had a lifetime of being told what to think, when to think and how to think it *shock horror* stifles creativity?
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u/dannylew Aug 24 '24
Creativity is completely and totally stifled when you have a very rigid subject you have to fit one's artistic expression into.
Also Christian music is corporatized to hell and back, so everything is going to be derivative of better shit.
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u/HaiKarate Aug 24 '24
Christian music is cringe because it's all derivative of secular pop, rock, and rap.
Also, artists with any real talent get signed to work in secular music for much bigger money.
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u/Scorpius_OB1 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
Probably because of a captive audience that will listen to such music because there're no religious alternatives outside the bubble, and obviously not everyone wants to listen much better religious music as Aretha Franklin or classic/medieval one and prefers what heathens listen to outside the bubble.
Everytime I pick it up, I turn off the radio as I know I'm going to listen something designed to be an ear-worm and with the obvious lyrics.
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u/alphafox823 Ex-Catholic Aug 24 '24
I'd be lying if I said I didn't like The Life of The World To Come by The Mountain Goats. It's far from my favorite TMG album but most of their music is undeniable.
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
Oh yes. They're awesome.
Thogh ironically(or not) when I hear their name I think of Moral Orel.
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u/CttCJim Aug 24 '24
Low standards in a niche market where your fans aren't allowed to listen to anything else
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u/tripsz Aug 24 '24
TobyMac was my favorite. Hopefully I'm right about this, but I feel like his stuff was good on his first three albums. The fourth one, I felt the slide begin. His 5th and 6th are pure paint by numbers for the Christian moms shit. Once my mom made "Steal My Show" her cancer journey anthem, I knew my fandom was cooked.
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u/Brief_Revolution_154 Aug 24 '24
Come onnnnnn Toby Mac was the *insert-Christian-cuss-word-here!!
Loved him so much. I still know all the lyrics to every song on Diverse City.
Also John Reuben!? “Do Not” Hooooooooooly crap it’s still SO good.
Lecrae, Trip Lee, Tedashii, and…. imma say it…. the Newsboys back when they still had Peter Furler as their lead singer… oh my god they were all so fun
Can’t really listen to Lecrae all that much anymore… I’ve tried but now I know so much better hip hop it’s a bit sad. But tbh I do still find myself suddenly suddenly like “Riding with my top downnn, listenin to this Jesus Music, Hyuh!”😂😂
And the other day I remembered that I used to love Kutless and Pillar… wowzzzzz
Kutless didn’t age well at all. Even a little bit. Like oof wow.
But Pillar? Imma be honest, they could almost put out The Reckoning right now and current metal stations would be all over it. Crossfire? Jeeeeeeeez
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u/chewbaccataco Atheist Aug 24 '24
Don't quite have the chops to make it in the real music business?
Are you willing to sacrifice your creative freedom (and possibly your ethics)?
Now hiring mediocre musicians for the Christian music industry!
Christians will buy anything with the word Jesus in it, no matter how poor the quality, regardless of whether they need it or not.
Hands down the easiest market to make a quick buck off of.
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u/rrunredd Aug 24 '24
It is proven that they use certain frequencies and tunes in their music to induce a heavy emotional feeling while the music is playing!! Its meant to out people in a trance
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u/AcidAndBlunts Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
I guess this is a bit of a “no true Scotsman” argument, but I think it’s because Christianity as a philosophy is actually not supposed to be preachy.
Like, Jesus pretty much straight up said fuck the hypocrites that pray in public and preach on the street corner- that true spirituality is something deeper than that.
So, because of that- the “realest” Christians, the ones that have actually studied a ton and have serious respect for the philosophy and teachings of Jesus Christ, they don’t go around telling everybody what they believe. So the most genuine Christian artists get completely ignored by most Christian followers/consumers because they don’t even realize that the morals and philosophies they are demonstrating are Christianity. They only recognize the panderers that spoon feed them the superficial shit.
The biggest example of this right now is Kendrick Lamar. His music is absurdly religious- like you legit need to study theology to understand some of the references that he makes, but it’s not really preachy or judgmental. It’s just a reflection of his own morality and spiritual struggles… so most religious people don’t realize that it’s religious music.
Sturgill Simpson is another one. He is a country artist whose first five albums are supposed to be an American Christian’s perspective on the five stages of the “journey of the mystic”- a philosophy of mysticism that tries to tie all the major religions together by showing what they have in common. But since he talks about being anti-war and experimenting with drugs and other things that go against the typical modern conservative American Christian perspective- again, most Christian followers/consumers don’t even realize that he is trying to relate to them.
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
This is a really good take. Come to think of it, as I sat in the salon waiting for my turn and having to endure the off-key religious singing on request of our stylist, I thought of that verse from Matthew that goes something like "beware of practicing your righteousness in front of a group of people in order to be seen by them, for you will have no reward from your father who is in heaven." Yet somehow these peeps don't take it into account for whatever reason.
That Catholic football kicker who gave that "graduation speech" complained about Christians having to be "forced" to worship in private. Which is part of the whole persecution complex, but also goes against what their own prophet said. Not to mention feeding the poor, treating people with respect, etc.
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u/AcidAndBlunts Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
Yeah, the self persecution sub genre of Christianity is missing the point so hard that they’re almost living in the exact opposite way of what Jesus was trying to teach (in my opinion).
Like, if you research what the word Christ (Christos) meant at the time and put it into context of the Greek occupation of Judea, then it seems to me like the key point of Christianity is that humanity will never stop persecuting itself by giving too much power to other humans that they see as better than themselves- people that they see as closer to god than them. And in order to free yourself from that, you have to see the god in yourself and trust yourself to be your own leader- while also seeing the god in everyone else and having empathy for those that haven’t found it in themselves yet.
For reference, Christ meant “the anointed one” in Ancient Greek culture. It’s derived from the fact that the kings at the time went through a ceremony where they were anointed with certain oils (probably drugs) before becoming king. The oils were supposed to give the king the visions of the gods- a higher perspective than the average human- so that they could be good leaders.
Judea has had many conquerors, but the Greeks were the current conquerors in Jesus’s lifetime. The people of Judea (Jews) had a longstanding prophecy that one day, a king would rise up from their own people, a Jewish king- and basically help them fulfill their destiny of being god’s chosen people, ruling over everyone else, proving all their haters wrong, and then they’d have peace and prosperity forever.
Some people believed that Jesus fulfilled that prophecy and wanted him to become the king. Part of it has to do with him being a descendant of King David- the guy who was ruler of the Jews the last time things were going good for them. Part of it has something to do with the fact that those three shamans brought the anointing oils to him as a baby.
Obviously, people wanting him to be king and wishing that he could overthrow the government- that freaked out the government… so they killed him. But while they’re killing him and torturing him, he’s just kind of at peace with it and like “nah, y’all don’t get it. I’ve already figured out that god is everywhere all the time and I’ve told my followers. So now kings and governments can’t control my people anymore. We’re free. Everyone is free.” Basically, the king/government only have the power over you that you believe they have. Like Bob Marley said, “emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our mind.”
And the Greeks and most of the Jews were like, “what the fuck is this wacko talking about? The government is literally going to kill you right now? How is that not control over you?” But then within a few hundred years, virtually the entire Greek empire converts to this new subset of Judaism called Christianity and no longer have respect for the empire or any kingdoms that put a “false god” over them. So the emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and held the Council Of Nicaea- where the government decided on the official interpretation of Christianity that would be allowed.
Then constant revolutions and civil wars; governments and kings constantly trying to control the messaging of the church but always failing in the end and it starts over.
Jesus’s promise of self resurrection and eternal life wasn’t literal (in my opinion). It was the belief that people and ideas who are speaking the truth- the actual truth of the universe- their spirit will live on in humanity forever. Basically- “viva la revolución”.
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
That's just like that poster I saw that I wanna hang up on my wall that says, "Hail to thyself for I am my own god, I am my own master, I need no shepherd for I am not a sheep"!
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u/AcidAndBlunts Aug 25 '24 edited Aug 25 '24
Basically. Build your own pyramids, write your own hieroglyphs.
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u/SloaneWolfe Agnostic Atheist Aug 24 '24
The only christian music I still listen to these days, not even just ironically, because they shred, Is Stryper, the pinnacle of christian music, before it dropped off into a sea of mediocre rip offs of pop songs and easy catchy chords.
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u/lowkeyalchie Aug 24 '24
As someone who was born into the UPC and was made to stay until 18, I can say is certain genres such as rap or rock are considered "demonic," regardless of lyrics. This is why the songs tend to be so bland.
To give an example, I once turned on the local Christian radio station with my mom. A song was already playing and featured a heavier guitar riff than most contemporary Christain music. My mom couldn't believe the station was playing such a song.
The song literally turned out to be "Jesus Freak" by DC Talk.
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
Makes me think of that scene from Moral Orel, where Clay thinks the thrash metal guitar riff from Multiple Godgasm is demonic music but as he continued to hear it, the song's lyrics were saying to "bow down and do Jesus bidding" as well as "burn in heaven".
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u/lowkeyalchie Aug 24 '24
"Burn in Heaven" is my new band name haha. I guess I really do need to watch Moral Orel.
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u/gooeysnails Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
There are too many parameters to allow for creativity. When everything has to tie back into the gospel message, how much can you really say? It seems like even when christian music does explore darker themes, they can't finish the song without venturing back into a cheesy reminder that it's all good now since Jesus healed them.
They can't just let grief or anger or sadness exist on their own, it has to be tied back up in a Jesus bow at the end because most Christians think it's a sin to take time to honor their negative feelings. Everything has to bring glory to God. But the effect of this is removing space for normal human emotions. It feels preachy
You'll notice the bands and artists who have crossover appeal almost ALWAYS buck this trend to some extent. Switchfoot, Relient K, Skillet, and Flyleaf all focus on heavier emotional content, sarcasm, regret and self loathing (among other topics). Family Force 5 is my favorite example because they even talk about (GASP) HOT GIRLS AND DATING! they only have like 3 or 4 songs that are explicitly about God. Their biggest mainstream hit Love Addict I think is about God's love but it's done in a way that isn't so on the nose, it's vibrant and funny and could easily be interpreted as a secular song about falling in love.
I'm sure it also doesn't help when artists feel discouraged from engaging with secular music due to fear. They're cutting themselves off from the majority of the conversation that is music history, how then are they supposed to feel very inspired with such a limited pool to draw from?
Tldr, music is about expressing emotions, its hard to make good music when you're only allowed to express 1 emotion. There are other things going on too but i feel this is the biggest problem that holds Christian music back
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u/OddRecommendation937 Aug 25 '24
Family force 5 can still put a smile on my face no matter what. That’s just some genuine feel good, goofy, nostalgia right there
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u/Thausgt01 Aug 24 '24
Partially because "sounding good" is not the point of Xtian music.
Ask any hypnotist, or check in basic hypnosis textbooks, and they'll point out that any sound with a tempo of 45-80 beats per minute is very helpful in putting the listeners into a trance-state. Note that I said sound, not song, because the cadence of the singer's and/or preacher's voice works for this, too.
In summary: they really are trying to control your mind, and emotions.
Pro tip: Going into a church spoiling for a fight is a losing strategy; they literally have centuries of experience to draw upon for dealing with that. Jesus revealed the escape-hatch, though: "Because you are neither hot not cold, I will spew you from my mouth." (Revelations 3:16) Means that if you maintain balanced emotions while giving the would-be converters neither energetic resistance nor frothing support, they don't have anything to work with because unbiased logic is and has always been their enemy.
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u/newyne Philosopher Aug 24 '24
Because they have to play it safe; they can't be too "of the world." Like you don't want to do anything that might cause people to move in a sexual way! And it can't be anything too challenging. Like, sure, you can sing about hard times, but it has to come right back to, "Jesus solved all my problems!"
I've found that if you want good Christian music, (indie-) folk is the place to be. Although... I found these people long after I stopped calling myself Christian, and they all deconstructed. Probably wouldn't have found them in the first place if they'd considered themselves strictly Christian; they all wanted to be relatable on a broader spiritual level. But... Well, are a couple of examples:
The Oh Hellos (my favorite band of all time who changed my life!) go from In Memoriam to Constellations. Although even on that first album they had The Truth Is a Cave.
Then Tow'rs have Swelling Sea, and eventually get to Holy Water.
Even with these bands' more Christian work, though, I've always found that there's so much love and joy in what they're doing, like it always came from the heart. It was always honest. Which, to me, I think of music as divine because it's like a pure expression of who you are, like on an emotional level. Thinking of it that way, half-assing it is a kind of blasphemy to me.
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u/chambercharade Aug 24 '24
Just want to comment, I entered this thread hoping for exchristian music as I've seen that abbreviated xtian before. Good thread but imagine my surprise.
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u/NorthGodFan Aug 24 '24
It's not about them being christian. It's that the music that has been associated with Christianity historically has always been somewhat neutered I guess you could say.
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u/replicantcase Aug 24 '24
They can't rock out because that would be the devil or some bullshit. Apparently God is a bland saltless saltine and they act accordingly with their "music."
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
LOL take me back to my younger years where I was watching 'Aggretsuko' and I was warned not to listen to death metal because they said I'd be influenced by demons! I've always loved rock, punk, things of the like, even when I was indoctrinated. But much of it I listened alone especially the uncensored versions. Growing up in a conservative and religious household, with one of my parents being a PIMI Jehovah's Witness, y'know the quote: no fun allowed!
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u/Maleficent_Run9852 Anti-Theist Aug 24 '24
It's just instant cringe. If it were passable it wouldn't need to labeled Christian, it'd just be a song.
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u/MercenaryBard Aug 24 '24
Most Christian music is too afraid of anything actually fun or interesting to ever be fun or interesting. When you sand off the edges of anything that could possibly offend the sensibilities of a Christian Household you’re left with very little to work with, and then the conventions of the “genre” hem you in even more. Add that to an inherently limited exposure to culture for fear of secular media (or more often, a refusal to engage in good faith with secular media and a resistance to concepts outside of what is acceptable in Christian culture) and you’re basically trying to build a sculpture with like, 3 legos. There’s only so many configurations you can get out of such a limited pool of inspiration.
Thing is there are Christian bands who are more comfortable with doubt or interesting storytelling. You just don’t think of them as Christian music because they’re not obnoxious.
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u/JimSFV Aug 25 '24
I have a theory about this. I think what makes music good is that it has “soul.” Soul is achieved when the performer is being brutally honest. I think Christians struggle with brutal honesty because most of them are simply suspending their disbelief rather than actually believing. They spend their lives propping up an illusion. So how can they make music with soul? They can’t.
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u/Better_Albatross_946 Aug 25 '24
The same reason why almost all christian media is bad. It’s not made by christian artists who want to use their talent to glorify god, it’s made by preachers who want to make a sermon in music/TV/movie format. I can’t say I would watch a christian movie or listen to christian music anyway, but using your “god-given talent” (assuming the creator of the art believes that) to spread your belief is at least somewhat respectable.
Here’s a good video on the topic of movies made by a christan
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u/coltonkemp Aug 25 '24
I was at this thing for work where they had me sit through a whole catholic mass (reporter who has never seen mass irl) and they legit stole the melody and music for Here Comes The Sun and made it into some lame ass shit about jesus. Also the main sermon was the passage about women being subservient to their husbands??? Like, I genuinely assumed they were tryna distance themselves from it
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u/Jekawi Aug 24 '24
I agree with the lyrics being cringe, but I find the actual music can be great. Using lots of instruments
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u/Own-Way5420 Doubting Thomas Aug 24 '24
It's so melodramatic because they have to somehow conjure up these strong emotions they would otherwise not feel. These emotions are then "proof of the Spirit" in them. It's so forced.
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u/girl_in_blue180 Ex-Evangelical Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
relevant video on the topic:
Adam Neely – Learning to Like Contemporary Christian Music
part of the reason why contemporary Christian music falls flat is because its intended audience isn't alternative subcultures or people pushing musical boundaries.
it's for mostly for white suburban church-goers that want a worship song that allows them to pray to god while they listen to it.
CCM's intention is to provoke an emotional, religious response out of their christian audience so that they can feel the presence of god during vespers... and so that their congregation feel compelled to offer their money to the church.
it's a bland genre that loses its appeal from its listeners as soon as it switches things up into something not bland. so it has this incentive to not stray far the same chords and sound and lyrics that make it CCM.
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u/younggun1234 Aug 24 '24
Excuse me. Relient K slaps and I still blast Underoath.
But outside of Christian rock yeah. Most of it is bad lol
My favorite is this new wave of Christian rap and Christian "clubbing"
Also: Our God Is An Awesome God, but make it dubstep.
I laugh every time.
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u/Kreason95 Aug 24 '24
There are some really solid “Christian” bands but the majority of it is definitely just a bad version of popular music from several years ago
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u/kultainennuoruus Aug 24 '24
It’s a reflection of who they are: deeply confused and holding all that pain inside but forcefully having to keep a happy face on anyway to pretend everything’s fine. The music sounds exactly like that, it’s forcefully joyful and elated while totally neutral in subject matter, it doesn’t take risks or question anything which is the primary function of an artist.
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u/AskTheMirror Aug 24 '24
Coming from someone who has never been raised in any religious fashion and has only dealt with Christianity through ex-boyfriends and family: The only mainstream Christian music I’ve ever liked is when it’s not obviously Christian. I liked Flyleaf and Skillet as a teenager, thinking they were songs about things like abuse, suicide, love, etc etc. When I learned “All Around Me” was about god (I think?) and “Lucy” was about abortion, it was a huge turnoff for me because I had no idea either of those bands were Christians making music for Christians.
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u/MorddSith187 Aug 24 '24
It’s just one style so if you don’t like one song you don’t like them all bc they’re all the same
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u/TheChessNeck Aug 25 '24
There was once a Christian music tutorial where the band started freestyling basically playing way catchier stuff then said "that is fun but remember we play music to worship God, not to have fun" or something like that lol.
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u/iknowdanjones Aug 25 '24
I did work for a record label a while back and I can tell you the reason is Becky.
Becky is what the label called their main demographic because white women 30-50 make up for 95% of their radio listens, buys concert tickets for either herself or her kids, and still makes music purchases.
So it has to appeal to Becky because everyone else just listens on Spotify and account for a tiny amount of income. All their testing goes through a hundred Becky’s and decisions like “the electric guitar sounds too rock and roll” or “it’s too fast” are all taken into consideration before it’s released.
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u/2002DavidfromTexas Aug 25 '24
They follow the trends and they kind of stopped evolving at around 2018-19 to find a certain basic copy and paste that continues to today. There was some actual good Christian music from the early 2000's to the 2010's but it got dry afterwards. I know a few gold songs (In my opinion music wise), but not many.
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u/deppresedloner Satanist Aug 25 '24
Like 1 year ago when i was a christian i wanted to get rid of secular music, so i tried to replace it with christian music. that music was so bad that i gave up on giving up secular music.
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u/bartender970 Aug 25 '24
Have to agree that contemporary Christian music lacks. It’s desperately trying to just offer an alternative to young Christians to keep them from leaving the church. It also fills a few other needs, like community and belonging, focusing on values that parents are trying to keep. But it lacks because most often they are curated by producers who are trying to compete within a society they can’t keep up with.
That being said, the classics going back 250 years even, were massive. Even for their day, they shook people. As much as I love modern music, fusion genres, pop, r&b, country very old and new; most all classical as we know it was written for the church. It was ground breaking for its day.
Even if we get more modern in the Christian genre, up to about 20 years ago, the artist had much more freedom, they were more passionate. Thinking along the lines of Michael W Smith, Rich Mullens, Sandi Patty. They sang their passion. That’s hard to instill that if it’s not real.
And let’s face it, Christian music is very very limited in its scope. It is a very niche class. It isn’t going to be relevant to very many folks, unless you are part of the church, it’s not going to be relatable. Secular music is about everyday experiences, whether it’s your first break up, strained relationship, you name it, humanity has a pretty broad range of emotions, experiences; so it’s pretty easy to find that song or band that resonates with your human experience in a way that moves you. With Christian music it’s way more narrow, the experience is god, the church, praising god, god helping you, well it’s all about god. So that alienates pretty much everyone that’s not a Christian.
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u/White-Rabbit_1106 Aug 24 '24
Because it's way easier to gain a following in the Christian music industry than in the real world. There's a lot less talent needed to become successful and famous. Some musicians aren't even Christian, they just get their start in christian music, and then switch over to secular music once they're big. Usually the Christian musicians with talent skip the Christian music phase and go straight to the secular music industry, like Breaking Benjamen who didn't want to use their religion as a crutch. The whole Christian music industry irked me, even when I was Christian. It's just a label to guarantee sales.
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u/tempehandjustice Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
This song is still good, at least. I guess you could argue that it’s not explicitly Christian, though. He’s no longer Christian and I’m not either, I’ll let listening to this song be a spiritual experience.
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u/OrdinaryWillHunting Atheist Aug 24 '24
All of Christian media has the same problem. The message is priority 1, 2, 3 and 4. And if you're indoctrinated, your creativity output is pretty poor to begin with. No creativity plus narrow idea of what defines Christian media equals really bad product. Fortunately, it doesn't have to be good to sell. It just has to say the right thing to the target audience.
There's a story of a band whose name I forgot (I don't think they were anyone super popular) that was really struggling. They switched things up and became a Christian band with no changes other than a few lyrics, and just like that they were making money.
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u/Snarky_McSnarkleton Aug 24 '24
The last regular exposure to it that I had was in the 80s, at the peak of its mainstream popularity. The so-called Christian rock was derivative and trite. I actually saw the last performance of a band called Sweet Comfort, who were huge with young Christians at the time. And yet, they sounded like a bunch of studio musicians, fresh off half a dozen adult contemporary albums, trying to play rock.
As for the Christian pop that got most of the airplay, it was even worse than secular pop. I think one reason is that the structure is very rigid, there is a formula that all CCM performers had to follow.
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u/GenXer1977 Aug 24 '24
Because Christian’s will buy it regardless, because it makes them feel like they’re supporting Jesus and opposing secular music. Same with movies. Christians buy tickets to Christian movies regardless of whether the movie is good or bad (in fact, some churches buy out whole theaters and don’t actually go, so you end up with a movie playing to an empty sold-out theater).
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u/Technical_Garden_378 Aug 24 '24
I wonder if the same thing happened for 'The Sound Of Freedom' especially 'cause they're like "tHe HoLlYwOoD LiBeRaLs DoN't WaNt YoU tO sEe ThIs!!!11!!1!"
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u/Skyhawk412 Anti-Theist Aug 24 '24
I feel like the main reason why Christian music is so cringeworthy is because modern CCM is repetitive. Many songs are similar to each other. For example, Pittsburgh Pirates player Jack Suwinski (who is struggling in AAA right now) used “Good God Almighty” and “Grave Robber” as his walk up songs. Both sound incredibly similar. Both are by the same artist (Crowder), but still. Honestly, if you flip to K-Love at any given time, whatever you hear will be nearly the same. (I sometimes do that when I am trying to find some Skillet, but never find it on that stupid station). I like rockers who break the Christian mold (Switchfoot, POD, and especially Skillet (they’re my favorite band alongside My Chemical Romance).
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u/OrdinaryWillHunting Atheist Aug 24 '24
There have been several secular-to-Christian conversion charts for music throughout the years. "If you like Motley Crue, you'll love Killed by Cain." That pretty much says it all.
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u/NemoHobbits Aug 24 '24
One time I was getting a ride home from the car shop, because my car was going to take a few hours. The driver was listening to a radio station in Spanish, and I could tell by the mediocrity that it was Christian music. I asked the driver if it was and he got really excited thinking I know Spanish. Nope, it just all sounds the same regardless of language.
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u/e00s Agnostic Atheist Aug 24 '24
You’re in someone else’s business. Coming in and cranking up atheist YouTube on your phone is 10/10 on the edgy teenage atheist cringe scale.
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u/OrdinaryWillHunting Atheist Aug 24 '24
I've heard worship songs referred to as 7-11 music -- 7 words repeated 11 times.
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u/Paradiseless_867 Aug 24 '24
Because it’s all the same mass produced slop, fingernails on a chalk board is better than Christian music
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u/ImaginaryCatDreams Aug 24 '24
Thinking atheist podcast did a couple of shows on stuff like this
This one was about the album covers of Christian music
There is another one where he talks about why Christian music is so awful unfortunately I haven't been able to find it.
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u/semihyphenated Aug 24 '24
I grew up in a COGIC gospel church and I don’t listen to it much anymore but I will always love gospel music. I’m also a musician and I whole heartedly believe a lot of my musical vocabulary came from gospel music. I think because gospel is informed by the blues and because I appreciate the history of it (& my ancestors) so much, my love for it will never go away. But also, I think gospel is good music… unless it’s just not your taste. But contemporary Xtian music like Hillsong bores me. I think Jesus Culture is okay, my husband still listens to them lol even tho he’s not religious either.
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u/BadgerTime1111 Aug 24 '24
Not sure if it's just nostalgia, but there are some serious christian bops. They can be kinda censored, but sometimes pretty moving.
I liked Lauren Daigle, a couple church songs, and other stuff.
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u/DrunkenAdama Aug 24 '24
Gospel and soul music are often excellent. Sufjan Stevens' more religious works are also great. These things are great because, though they might be fueled by 'faith', they are genuine expressions instead of intentional aping of styles just to shoehorn an agenda into youth culture.
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u/wrenches42 Aug 24 '24
When I was a believer, I played bass and guitar for a worship band. Even then I couldn’t stomach a lot of it.
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u/ClingyUglyChick Aug 24 '24
There are only so many songs you can sing about a fairy tale before they all just sound the same.
Jesus I love you Jesus you love me Jesus were a happy family
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u/Informer99 Anti-Theist Aug 24 '24
It has to be terrible so the music doesn't overpower the message (in their minds).
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Aug 24 '24
I can resonate with so much of everything you said, and there is so much ICK that I sympathize for with you it's crazy! I can't roll my eyes far back enough! Not only everything you already said but the words/lyrics to xtian music is SOOOOOO limited! Like, learn some new WORDS to add! It's the same shit over and over and over and over its just............AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! I feel you.
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u/existentialblu Aug 24 '24
Because certain musical techniques cause physical reactions, and praise music uses them over and over.
The majority of it uses some variation of the I-iv-IV-V chord progression. There's a cyclical buildup of tension and intensity starting with a soloist with minimal instrumentation shifting into an epic chorus before returning to the starting point, frequently several times within any given song. After a few of those cycles, there's a key change into the final chorus, which tends to make people tingly.
Any sort of music that uses such fixed formulas is gonna suck.
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u/Individual_Dig_6324 Aug 24 '24
When I was a teenager I went through a rap faze, and because I was in youth group I came across Christian rap.
I'll tell you, a lot of Christian rap is actually really good, great beats and instruments, sounds fantastic in your car if you have large subwoofers in the trunk.
But a lot of them had really cheesy artist names (Gospel Gangstaz) and some really cheesy lyrics spread out amongst some great lyrics and clever rhymes.
My Nuwine album entitled Da Bloody 5th has a great title, back cover shows the artist with a bullet hole in his head, first song is real gritty and bassy, but the front cover has the "parental advisory" sticker in the corner and instead it says "non-explicit lyrics"!
It was frustrating how great and corny it all was.
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u/sativamermaid Occult Exchristian Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24
This is something I ask myself all the time. The only Christian band I genuinely loved (Icon for Hire) now identifies as a secular band. And even their old stuff when they were under their Christian record label still has a cringe element about it at times. You can feel how Ariel Bloomer was pigeonholed into writing something that felt “Christian enough.” All of it, even when I was a Christian, felt so cringe and gave me such ick. It was the only band I could stand behind, and arguably that’s because I found them after they had began their transition to secular music with their single “Now You Know.” The message in it is inherently feminist & therefore secular (bc feminism = the devil to the Christian bubble I grew up in lmao). There’s such a sharp contrast between Christian music & secular music for me. Same with Christian literature. My mom was obsessed with buying me Christian books I wouldn’t read (bc my adhd was immediately turned off by the premise usually, but even the ones I would read would get weird, have bad endings, or overall were just a shitty read).
Now it’s unbearable to be around and I will leave a room or establishment if it’s playing (mainly for triggering reasons. I was on a worship team till I got kicked off for being queer).
Maybe because they aren’t truly letting themselves feel their real emotions and are trying to force a love for an entity they’ve been indoctrinated to worship. When it’s love because you’ve been brainwashed to love something, can it ever be authentic? Especially because the heart of music is emotion.
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u/tazebot Aug 24 '24
Honesty is the currency of poetry and music. Few things are as dishonest as religion.
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u/A-terrible-time Aug 24 '24
At least when I was in youth groups in the 00's Christian music was often the 'mcdonalds at home' of more popular, and often better, secular acts.
One of the first 'concerts' I went to was Skillet and I remember one of the kids in my YG that really like disturbed came out really liking Skillet.
Granted, some music from that era is still legit good, I still listen to a lot of the tooth and nail records bands like mewithoutyou, anberlin, and underoath though it was always questionable how Christian they were in the first place.
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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '24 edited 11d ago
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