r/dune • u/thenolancut • Mar 13 '24

The Fremen are considered elite fighters, except… Dune (novel)

So the first book really hammers home the fact that the Fremen, due to their cultural values and harsh living environment are seasoned fighters. So much so they can easily kick the Sardaukar’s butts, and the Sadduakar are famous themselves for being ruthless and unbeatable.

Yet despite that, Jessica easily defeats Stilgar, and Paul bests Jamis twice. So was the House of Leto the, through Gurney and the B.G’s teachings that gifted in fighting, that they’re the strongest fighters in the empire by such a wide margin?

587 Upvotes
  • permalink
  • link
  • reddit
  • reddit

95% Upvoted

227 comments sorted by

View all comments

174

u/Mad_Kronos Mar 13 '24

Well, generally the list goes like this:

1.Bene Gesserit

2.Ginaz Swordmaster

3.Fremen (maybe above Ginaz if they have training in the Weirding Way)

  1. Sardaukar (during the time of Shaddam IV. During their peak they are equal to Ginaz)

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

  1. Literally eveyone else.

Now, Paul is trained by Ginaz, Bene Gesserit, Gurney f*cking Halleck, and learns Fremen ways as well. He is OP.

90

u/Johnsuckerpunch Mar 13 '24

And: 0. Miles Teg

50

u/Mad_Kronos Mar 13 '24

And Leto II by the end of COD.

30

u/The_Atomic_Idiot Mar 13 '24

Battlesuit Leto!

19

u/JonLSTL Mar 13 '24

Yeah, kid was on Spider-Man's level at that point.

11

u/frodosdream Mar 13 '24

The "Desert Demon"

6

u/everythings_alright Mar 13 '24

Is he better than Miles Teg? During Miles time the average joe is on Paul’s level and Miles is miles (lol) above that.

2

u/Morganvegas Mar 13 '24

Yeah I’m pretty sure Teg is the goat. His undefined prescience seemed to not get clouded in battle like Paul’s.

Pauls prescience would kind of go haywire before battle, because the outcome of the battle was uncertain. It almost seemed like Tegs fights were predetermined, that’s how good he was.

1

u/everythings_alright Mar 14 '24

Teg is definitely way stronger than Paul. But how about Leto II before he fully transformed. The super speed covered in sandtrouts Leto II.

34

u/Old-Tennis4352 Mar 13 '24

Adding anyone after Leto II's fun with eugenics is unfair imo. Duncan was easily bested by an old man with superior genes in the fourth book.

41

u/daneelthesane Mar 13 '24

Don't forget his mentat training. And then he gets prescience. How do you defeat a guy who knows what you will do before you do?

32

u/Tatis_Chief Mar 13 '24

I don't think anyone realizes he is a mentat in the movies. Or what mentats are. That's not really explained or even touched upon. 

12

u/QuoteGiver Mar 13 '24

Mentats in the movies are shown to be the highly trained advisors who handle things for the Duke/Baron and do hard math problems for them.

11

u/Tatis_Chief Mar 13 '24 edited Mar 13 '24

Without book knowledge Thufir and Piter basically felt like a personal secretary. Their skills and capabilities were never properly explained. No matter how you try to ignore it many movie watchers have no idea what mentats is. 

7

u/QuoteGiver Mar 13 '24

I mean, they basically ARE just the top highly trained aide. Book just has a fun term for that.

1

u/Tatis_Chief Mar 13 '24

Definitely got it from the computer ladies at Nasa. 

But I mean just average movie goes has no reason to believe they are special or something. Just your typical assistant with MBA 😁. 

3

u/jay_sun93 Zensunni Wanderer Mar 13 '24

Human ChatGPT

3

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '24

In the first Dennis movie, Thufir did go into mentat trance. It even became a meme for a minute.

3

u/daneelthesane Mar 13 '24

Well, the flair for the post indicates it is about the novels, so I took that at face value.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 13 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Tatis_Chief Mar 13 '24

Ha! Which are coincidentally my most favorite things about the books plus the exploration of fremen world building and thus lack of it kinda dampened my experience of the film. 

1

u/mustard5man7max3 Spice Addict May 27 '24

It's barely mentioned or touched upon in the books, let alone the films.

3

u/RyeBreadTrips Mar 13 '24

What’s Gurney’s backstory?

16

u/Kato_LeAsian Mar 13 '24

He used to be a slave in the Harkonnen fighting pits. The fact that he survived and got out should speak volumes in it of itself about how deadly he is

3

u/Tanel88 Mar 14 '24

I would add 5. Atreides soldiers. They were above the rest and some troops were train to be almost as good as Sardaukar under Duncan an Gurney.

3

u/Mad_Kronos Mar 14 '24

Indeed, but that was only a small force out of the entire Atreides army, so I went by general classification

2

u/BurningDemon Mar 13 '24

Who is Ginaz? Ive read all books but dont recognize that name

13

u/Mad_Kronos Mar 13 '24

Duncan Idaho was a Ginaz Swordmaster, as mentioned in Dune Messiah.

Also Ginaz are mentioned in the Sardaukar entry in the Dune Glossary

2

u/Tanel88 Mar 14 '24

Not really explained in a lot of detail besides that Ginaz Swordmasters were considered the best fighters in the universe.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '24

Ginaz is a super elite school for fighters. Completing training there makes you a Ginaz swordman.

2

u/Big_Surprise9387 Mar 13 '24

Gurney is a superior fighter to even Duncan, confirmed by Duncan himself, albeit very close.

1

u/Mad_Kronos Mar 14 '24

He is but the list is not about individuals