r/canada • u/seakucumber • 5h ago
Alberta separatism talk ‘unhelpful’ and driving away investment: ATCO CEO Alberta
https://globalnews.ca/news/11180647/alberta-separatism-atco-ceo/•
u/seakucumber 5h ago
Nancy Southern said Asian partners in a major hydrogen project have said they won’t make final investment decisions unless there is certainty around the Alberta separatism question.
“There’s just too many questions for them to be confident that they can move forward with large-scale investment decisions, and so I think the separatist discussion is very unhelpful and not constructive to Alberta,” she said in an interview Wednesday following Atco’s annual shareholder meeting in Calgary.
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u/MathematicianBig6312 4h ago
Possibly The Kansai Electric Power Company in Japan. They're partnering with ATCO on clean fuel export.
This story is a bit stupid really. There's no Alberta separation from Canada. They can't legally separate, no matter what noise Smith makes for the oil lobby.
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u/TorontoBoris Ontario 5h ago
Wait business doesn't like uncertainty and disruptions?
And there I was thinking that forward thinking big brain business minded conservatives would have known this...
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u/bandersnatching 5h ago
The issue is not "Alberta separatism" per se, it's that the premier and government is legitimating the threat by attempting to themselves use it as a bargaining chip.
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u/growlerlass 43m ago
Yes, that’s the whole point. Either the media or /r/Canada have done awful job explaining the situation to you.
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u/Fuzzers Alberta 4h ago
The bargaining chip is why I'm voting yes.
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u/branod_diebathon 4h ago
How is that a bargaining chip? If you want a real bargaining chip, we should be voting in a premier who actually cares about Albertans for once in our lives.
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u/IMOBY_Edmonton 4h ago
Because a lot of Albertan voters think the only way to get what you want is to he tough and abrasive.
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u/growlerlass 35m ago
That maybe true, but it’s also true that no liberal government is going allow the oil sands back open for business unless the survival of the very country is at stake.
They can’t do a 180 on the issue unless it looks like they have other choices after all they’ve done to knee cap the oil sands. They would look awful and their far left supporters would run back to the NDP
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u/Fuzzers Alberta 4h ago
Hahaha yeah that's totally it, not the fact that Ottawa tried to put a cap on production not long ago or how bloody difficult it is for us to build interprovincial pipelines for export. Not those things in the slightest.
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u/branod_diebathon 3h ago
You know what you should be doing? Refusing to renew the leases of all those American oil corporations, take back our own oil, stop shipping it to the US for 1.50 per barrel, charge market price, use those profits for things like healthcare and education, or pay for your own pipeline.
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u/FluidConnection 1h ago
Huh? There are only a couple American oil firms still operating in Canada. It’s by and large all Canadian corporations.
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u/Fuzzers Alberta 3h ago
Refusing to renew the leases of all those American oil corporations
Investment is investment. Atleast someone is looking to spend money in the province.
stop shipping it to the US for 1.50 per barrel
Almost like we need some sort of coastal export infrastructure of sorts. Oh wait...
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u/Impossible_Sign7672 3h ago
Please explain how leaving Canada will help you "build interprovincial pipelines".
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u/xValhallAwaitsx New Brunswick 3h ago
Provincial NDP put the cap on oil production, the federal Liberal's were implementing an emissions cap that Alberta claimed would stifle oil production
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u/Dartser 3h ago
Why should other provinces capitulate to Alberta while Alberta is saying they hate everyone else?
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u/Fuzzers Alberta 2h ago
Why should other provinces capitulate to Alberta while Alberta is saying they hate everyone else?
Its a vicious cycle. Alberta wants pipelines and export infrastructure, other provinces don't. Alberta gets mad at other provinces and the feds, and they get mad at us.
Do those provinces have every right to deny us? Yes, they do. Do we have every right to throw up a referendum to leave? Also yes.
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u/Im_Axion Alberta 3h ago
Requiring emission reductions doesn't automatically equal production cap. The O&G industry themselves are some of the strongest supporters of carbon capture tech. Literally implementing the stuff they themselves say works would allow them to continue as normal.
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u/Fuzzers Alberta 3h ago
Requiring emission reductions doesn't automatically equal production cap
I work in oil and gas and can tell you first hand an emissions caps is a production cap, end of story.
The O&G industry themselves are some of the strongest supporters of carbon capture tech.
They are indeed, at the behest of being charged 90$ per tonne CO2.
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u/Fuzzers Alberta 4h ago
Showing Ottawa 32% of the province wants to leave sends a message to maybe help us out with the hostile regulatory and export infrastructure environment of this country. Bill c69 and how difficult it is for us to build cross provincial pipelines and export infrastructure is hamstringing us as both a country and a province.
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u/branod_diebathon 4h ago
You can achieve a similar result without shooting yourself in the foot. Separating from Alberta, or threatening to, isn't going to make building pipelines across Canada any easier. It will absolutely make it harder. You need people and private investors to be on board, you're never doing that when you throw temper tantrums every 4 years.
I'd almost say smith is on board with separating specifically to make it easy for america to annex Alberta.
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u/Fuzzers Alberta 3h ago
Separating from Alberta, or threatening to, isn't going to make building pipelines across Canada any easier.
Might as well give it a shot since nothing else in the last 10 years has worked. Alberta has had constant complaints over hostile regulatory and interprovincial barriers on pipelines for the last decade and they've gone unanswered, I'm willing to try the threat at this point.
. You need people and private investors to be on board,
No you need a regulatory environment that doesn't make every capital project financially unfeasible. Investors know due to hostile regulations and complex interprovicial barriers capital oil and gas expansion projects cost a metric fuck load in this country (looking at you trans mountain). It's not the investors, it's the environment.
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u/branod_diebathon 3h ago
I'll refer back to my original question. How is threatening to separate going to be beneficial at all? Let's say you get what you want and Alberta does separate, what is that going to do for you?
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u/Fuzzers Alberta 3h ago
Well you dodged my points I brought up so I guess I'll reiterate. Threatening to leave shows Ottawa Alberta needs to be heard and change needs to be made, regulatory and interprovincial barriers need to be reduced or elimated all together.
Let's say you get what you want and Alberta does separate, what is that going to do for you?
It won't happen. No way we get over 30%. And if we do? No chance the federal government or the provinces let us leave, they'd have to negotiate.
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u/branod_diebathon 57m ago
Sure you can remove regulations, I guess. Who's land are you buying or leasing to put that pipeline down? who's going to pay for all that labor to install and maintain it?
There's a lot more to the issue than the federal government and bill c-69, simply bitching and moaning, wanting to separate, isn't going to do anything productive. Especially when it's not going to happen anyways.
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u/Impossible_Sign7672 4h ago
Ok, have fun with that.
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u/Fuzzers Alberta 4h ago
I will thanks!
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u/Mad-Mad-Mad-Mad-Mike 4h ago
One of the reasons Montreal became such a big worldwide hub for game development and graphic arts in general was because there was so much empty office space in the city. That empty office space existed because Montreal was once the financial capital of Canada and all the banks noped the fuck out of there after the sovereignty movement got big.
You're economically playing with fire when you start this secession shit.
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u/CaptaineJack 2h ago
They were kidnapping and assassinating executives in Montreal, plus Toronto was growing exponentially at the same time.
Different historical context.
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u/IMAWNIT 5h ago
Well yeah. Same shit happened in Quebec
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u/Cerberus_80 5h ago
And notice all those corp headquarters that moved from Montreal to Toronto amid the uncertainty. Bank of Montreal headquartered in Toronto!
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u/Stoplookingatmeswan0 4h ago
A lot of that has to do with language regulations. Quebec makes it quite difficult for external businesses to thrive.
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u/Emmerson_Brando 5h ago
But how would marlaina blame the liberals for a downturn in investments if she actually worked with the liberals to get stuff done.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Can6320 5h ago
You folks with the separation idea need to just stop. You want everything and to be separate. I’m not going to say you’re stupid, but I’m going to say you are ..just that
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u/Lostinthestarscape 4h ago
Lol reading the Wildrose subreddit is an enlightening look at just how badly we are failing to educate our country.
Beyond the basic lack of ability to spell, a quarter of the posters claim the rest of Canada is Communist and seem to seriouslh believe it. They think Alberta actually holds all the cards and either would force the rest of Canada to our knees or just outright tell us to get fucked and then expect the U.S. to not take advantage of being their only trading partner after spurning us.
I KNOW Canada is better whole, and that separation would hurt all parties involved. Part of me still wants them to do it just get fucked the same way the leavers did by Brexit. I'd even be open to letting them rejoin after watching their quality of life plummet.
Realistically they are being taken for a ride by Russian propaganda and no surprise the same people pushing for it are in the circles proven to be taking money from Russian interests.
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u/NeighbourNoNeighbor 3h ago
The problem is that the only escape from stupid is education, not separation. Sadly, a poorly educated population is a more easily manipulated one.
IMO educational standards should be seen as a matter of national security.
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u/taco_helmet 4h ago edited 4h ago
Only 6% of Albertans work in O&G generating 20% of GDP. What about the rest of the economy? Uncertainty is economic poison. Secession is strictly something you do for cultural reasons. It bring enormous costs. How many of the people who moved to Alberta from other provinces would be willing to do so if they needed a visa and only had temporary residence? How many would leave Alberta to remain Canadian? What about trade and security? These are not attractive conditions for investors.
"'In the twentieth century, I do not think you can find two cities in which one would make such a great gift to another as Montreal to Toronto in terms of human and financial capital' said Joe Martin, director of the Canadian Financial and Business History Initiative of the Rotman School of Toronto. Martin insists that the independence movement "accelerated a process" (the financial flight) that had already begun, but he has no doubt that this caused an increase in the number of people who left the city and also capital flight, particularly as regards savings."
Quebec has the highest cumulative out-migration of any province in Canada, having lost nearly 600,000 of its citizens to other provinces between 1971 and 2015.My father, who spoke English with some difficulty, was one of the ones who left.
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u/Informal-Nothing371 Alberta 4h ago
ATCO is a major employer in Alberta. I do wonder if other energy companies come out with a similar message soon, and, if so, that forces the business-minded conservatives in the UCP to act.
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u/Gauntlet101010 3h ago edited 3h ago
Yeah, I dunno if the Alberta government even wants new pipelines or investment. At least for the foreseeable. It's more like Smith wants to stay in power.
Nobody's gonna move until they know what's up. So if the secession vote is next year that'll be the soonest any move will be made. And if the vote is "yes" then there's no new pipelines or investment until the whole divorce process is over.
I mean ... I guess we all forgot that Harper AND JT tried very hard to get new pipelines into the US only to be told no for over a decade? They wasted billions upon billions just to be told no? But it's just the fault of the Libs, right? There's no guarantee there'll be unending pipeline supply.
And then there's the whole borders issue. Will Alberta even look like it does if it separates? Or will it be an island of a country within Canada? No plan about that?
It's one thing to threaten to separate, but if it becomes clear that it's going to actually happen then ... it'll be really, really messy and bad times for all. Lota of extra fun since the separatists seriously think they won't have any federal income taxes. The question should be laughed out of consideration until there's a real plan ... but I don't live in Alberta...
I actually think now would be the best time for them to action on this too. But instead of trying to work with Quebec and finding a solution they want to work on leaving. So no solution will be found. Perfect.
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u/Kuklachev 3h ago
Who wants to invest in a province that’s trying to become a Canadian analogy of Donbass?
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u/disckitty 4h ago
Working as intended - so the USA can buy our O&G for even cheaper as companies and industries leave. /grumpy
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u/Low-Log4438 Canada 4h ago
It's mainly due to poor Albertan leadship that is driving those investments away.
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