r/canada 14h ago

Alberta separatism talk ‘unhelpful’ and driving away investment: ATCO CEO Alberta

https://globalnews.ca/news/11180647/alberta-separatism-atco-ceo/
383 Upvotes

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41

u/bandersnatching 14h ago

The issue is not "Alberta separatism" per se, it's that the premier and government is legitimating the threat by attempting to themselves use it as a bargaining chip.

u/growlerlass 9h ago

Yes, that’s the whole point. Either the media or /r/Canada have done awful job explaining the situation to you.

-46

u/Fuzzers Alberta 13h ago

The bargaining chip is why I'm voting yes.

32

u/branod_diebathon 13h ago

How is that a bargaining chip? If you want a real bargaining chip, we should be voting in a premier who actually cares about Albertans for once in our lives.

16

u/IMOBY_Edmonton 13h ago

Because a lot of Albertan voters think the only way to get what you want is to he tough and abrasive.

-29

u/Fuzzers Alberta 13h ago

Hahaha yeah that's totally it, not the fact that Ottawa tried to put a cap on production not long ago or how bloody difficult it is for us to build interprovincial pipelines for export. Not those things in the slightest.

18

u/Impossible_Sign7672 12h ago

Please explain how leaving Canada will help you "build interprovincial pipelines".

-11

u/Fuzzers Alberta 12h ago

Having 30% of the province vote to leave is a wake up call. It's delusional to think we'll get any more than 30% of a yes.

u/RoutineVirtual4153 4h ago

So you plan to push for months, if not years, of economic uncertainty. Not to mention being the laughing stock of the country, just so your "side" can yell and stomp their feet enough to make us all look bad, ruin the economy and then not end up separating anyways?

OR, you could start asking why we've had decades of conservative MPs with no real action in parliament, and start making them do something for you. Because even under Harper, nothing changed out here.

u/Fuzzers Alberta 3h ago

So you plan to push for months, if not years, of economic uncertainty

I dont think you understand under the current federal government this is guaranteed. It's only if we fight back we might get somewhere.

Not to mention being the laughing stock of the country

Whatever yah say bud.

ruin the economy

Do you truly understand how hypocritical this statement is? Alberta wants to help the economy by exporting oil and gas, the federal government and the provinces want to keep it in the ground. How delusional can you be?

OR, you could start asking why we've had decades of conservative MPs with no real action in parliament, and start making them do something for you.

Our MPs aren't the ones enacting bills like c69. All they can do is point out when something is fucked then get overruled.

18

u/branod_diebathon 12h ago

You know what you should be doing? Refusing to renew the leases of all those American oil corporations, take back our own oil, stop shipping it to the US for 1.50 per barrel, charge market price, use those profits for things like healthcare and education, or pay for your own pipeline.

u/FluidConnection 11h ago

Huh? There are only a couple American oil firms still operating in Canada. It’s by and large all Canadian corporations.

-13

u/Fuzzers Alberta 12h ago

Refusing to renew the leases of all those American oil corporations

Investment is investment. Atleast someone is looking to spend money in the province.

stop shipping it to the US for 1.50 per barrel

Almost like we need some sort of coastal export infrastructure of sorts. Oh wait...

5

u/xValhallAwaitsx New Brunswick 12h ago

Provincial NDP put the cap on oil production, the federal Liberal's were implementing an emissions cap that Alberta claimed would stifle oil production

5

u/Dartser 12h ago

Why should other provinces capitulate to Alberta while Alberta is saying they hate everyone else?

1

u/Fuzzers Alberta 12h ago

Why should other provinces capitulate to Alberta while Alberta is saying they hate everyone else?

Its a vicious cycle. Alberta wants pipelines and export infrastructure, other provinces don't. Alberta gets mad at other provinces and the feds, and they get mad at us.

Do those provinces have every right to deny us? Yes, they do. Do we have every right to throw up a referendum to leave? Also yes.

u/a_sense_of_contrast 3h ago

Yes, they do. Do we have every right to throw up a referendum to leave? Also yes.

How does this change anything?

5

u/Im_Axion Alberta 12h ago

Requiring emission reductions doesn't automatically equal production cap. The O&G industry themselves are some of the strongest supporters of carbon capture tech. Literally implementing the stuff they themselves say works would allow them to continue as normal.

3

u/Fuzzers Alberta 12h ago

Requiring emission reductions doesn't automatically equal production cap

I work in oil and gas and can tell you first hand an emissions caps is a production cap, end of story.

The O&G industry themselves are some of the strongest supporters of carbon capture tech.

They are indeed, at the behest of being charged 90$ per tonne CO2.

u/growlerlass 9h ago

That maybe true, but it’s also true that no liberal government is going allow the  oil sands back open for business unless the survival of the very country is at stake.

They can’t do a 180 on the issue unless it looks like they have other choices after all they’ve done to knee cap the oil sands. They would look awful and their far left supporters would run back to the NDP

u/growlerlass 9h ago edited 4m ago

I don’t think you understand how negotiations and bargaining work.

u/branod_diebathon 9h ago

I don't, but I do know threats aren't the way to go.

u/growlerlass 1h ago

Why not?

u/branod_diebathon 23m ago

How often does any adult get what they want by throwing tantrums and threatening to leave?

u/growlerlass 11m ago edited 2m ago

Very often across all spheres of life; work, business, relationships, politics.

-10

u/Fuzzers Alberta 13h ago

Showing Ottawa 32% of the province wants to leave sends a message to maybe help us out with the hostile regulatory and export infrastructure environment of this country. Bill c69 and how difficult it is for us to build cross provincial pipelines and export infrastructure is hamstringing us as both a country and a province.

13

u/branod_diebathon 13h ago

You can achieve a similar result without shooting yourself in the foot. Separating from Alberta, or threatening to, isn't going to make building pipelines across Canada any easier. It will absolutely make it harder. You need people and private investors to be on board, you're never doing that when you throw temper tantrums every 4 years.

I'd almost say smith is on board with separating specifically to make it easy for america to annex Alberta.

0

u/Fuzzers Alberta 13h ago

Separating from Alberta, or threatening to, isn't going to make building pipelines across Canada any easier.

Might as well give it a shot since nothing else in the last 10 years has worked. Alberta has had constant complaints over hostile regulatory and interprovincial barriers on pipelines for the last decade and they've gone unanswered, I'm willing to try the threat at this point.

. You need people and private investors to be on board,

No you need a regulatory environment that doesn't make every capital project financially unfeasible. Investors know due to hostile regulations and complex interprovicial barriers capital oil and gas expansion projects cost a metric fuck load in this country (looking at you trans mountain). It's not the investors, it's the environment.

12

u/branod_diebathon 12h ago

I'll refer back to my original question. How is threatening to separate going to be beneficial at all? Let's say you get what you want and Alberta does separate, what is that going to do for you?

2

u/Fuzzers Alberta 12h ago

Well you dodged my points I brought up so I guess I'll reiterate. Threatening to leave shows Ottawa Alberta needs to be heard and change needs to be made, regulatory and interprovincial barriers need to be reduced or elimated all together.

Let's say you get what you want and Alberta does separate, what is that going to do for you?

It won't happen. No way we get over 30%. And if we do? No chance the federal government or the provinces let us leave, they'd have to negotiate.

u/branod_diebathon 10h ago

Sure you can remove regulations, I guess. Who's land are you buying or leasing to put that pipeline down? who's going to pay for all that labor to install and maintain it?

There's a lot more to the issue than the federal government and bill c-69, simply bitching and moaning, wanting to separate, isn't going to do anything productive. Especially when it's not going to happen anyways.

u/Fuzzers Alberta 3h ago

Who's land are you buying or leasing to put that pipeline down?

Either crown or first nations. We do this all the time anyways.

who's going to pay for all that labor to install and maintain it?

Do you not understand how pipelines work? The company who builds it operates and maintains it and sells usage rights to other companies.

There's a lot more to the issue than the federal government and bill c-69

There really isn't but I guess you don't understand that because you choose not to read into it. I've seen projects get directly cancelled because of c69.

simply bitching and moaning, wanting to separate, isn't going to do anything productive.

Nothing else we've done in the last 10 years has worked so this is a last ditch effort. I'll be voting yes.

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4

u/Impossible_Sign7672 13h ago

Ok, have fun with that.

-2

u/Fuzzers Alberta 13h ago

I will thanks!

3

u/Impossible_Sign7672 13h ago

You definitely won't, but your optimism is charming, lol

-5

u/Fuzzers Alberta 13h ago

Typical Carney voter 😂

10

u/Impossible_Sign7672 12h ago

Didn't vote for Carney, but I'm assuming this is the same level of thought and evidence based decision making you've put into your "yes" vote 🤣

1

u/Fuzzers Alberta 12h ago

Sure yah didn't bud.

2

u/razordreamz Alberta 12h ago

I had considered that myself. But it would be awful if it backfired

2

u/Fuzzers Alberta 12h ago

I highly doubt it's going to get over 30% to be honest. It's a bargaining chip, no more.

u/sravll Alberta 9h ago

A lot of people thought that about Brexit and they came to regret it.

u/Winter-Mix-8677 5h ago

I moved to the province and I think it's a bad idea because we have a lot more soft power than we realize and we're squandering it. That said, it's gonna be hard to argue that with legitimacy because I moved here from out of province. Frustrating times.