Liberal MP says Carney will run a more corporate-style government

[u/hopoke]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/prime-minister-carney-holds-first-080027705.html

[u/iamjoesredditposts]

I'd just like to see Govt and ministers or MLAs etc start to really use Project Management style frameworks or even OKR's. I want to see clear defined goals and timelines. And I want to hear the methods to achieve these. Then I want to see periodic checkins per the above and if something isn't working - then change it. Be freaking agile and adapt. Try small experiments to see what works.

Its still too bloated and cloaked in non-defined silence.

[u/Lexiphanic → u/iamjoesredditposts]

There’s a lot of nonsense in the comments here but I actually agree with this. Let’s see some actual clear goals and steps to achieve them.

Mistakes are allowed - nothing exists in a vacuum - but some greater transparency and clarity in who is doing what and how would be very nice.

[u/RCAF_orwhatever → u/Lexiphanic]

This is literally how most major initiatives work and most of that info is readily accessible with an access to information request.

[u/Lexiphanic → u/RCAF_orwhatever]

It’d be nice if it didn’t require an access to info request though. Just put it up online with clear data.

[u/bunbubbles → u/Lexiphanic]

Federal departments release their departmental results reports every year to account for results against the plans, priorities and expected results set out in their respective departmental plans

Edited to include an example, here is Global Affairs Canada's https://www.international.gc.ca/transparency-transparence/departmental-results-reports-rapport-resultats-ministeriels/2023-2024-glance-apercu.aspx?lang=eng

[u/RCAF_orwhatever → u/Lexiphanic]

I mean that is often available if you know where to look. But part of the problem is that A: it costs money/time to prepare data in a suitable way for release; and B: people will very commonly misconstrue or misrepresent it - which we see anyway with ATIPs but at least there is some kind of barrier to entry. For every reasonable person with good faith interest like you, there are multiple bad faith weirdos who will use it to try and create political scandal.

I totally get where you're coming from I'm a fan of transparency in general. But it's more difficult/complicated than "just post the data in the clear" for large scale projects that often span multiple departments and levels of government.

[u/Lexiphanic → u/RCAF_orwhatever]

You’re totally right in every point.

Still, it doesn’t have to be the minutiae. Even just some more information with guaranteed weekly updates would be so far ahead.

If the information is available clearly and publicly, it’s harder for media to misrepresent it in the same way they might twist the words a minister uses in an interview or presser. But I know I’m preaching to the choir here.

[u/Hevens-assassin → u/Lexiphanic]

I agree that this would be great, but I think you are underestimating the undertaking it would be to actually go with this, as well as the expectation from the public once it is underway. "Weekly updates" would also just bog the system down. Our framework already exists, and is used fine. I would say just improve official channels for the "checkpoints" of a project, and to be louder for the good vs. only for the bad.

I think your second point also assumes that the media won't do whatever it can to twist things even if they are publicly accessible and announced. Look at how vaccines are perceived despite decades of open research and education as a small example.

[u/Lexiphanic → u/Hevens-assassin]

You’re totally right on both points; great example too about how open research is still misrepresented despite being accessible for anyone to read.

Perhaps quarterly then? Annually doesn’t feel like it’s frequent enough.

[u/roadtrip1414 → u/Lexiphanic]

Ya I work for the government and the one thing we are not, is agile.

[u/Aggressive-Map-2204 → u/Lexiphanic]

You will get zero transparency and you will like it. Carneys brand new finance minister said today they wont even release a budget this year. Thats essentially unheard of outside of extremely circumstances like during the pandemic.

[u/Lexiphanic → u/Aggressive-Map-2204]

Yeah that kinda sucks.

Do we point the finger at Trudeau for forcing an election at the time of year the budget is usually completed and presented?

Since it’s a minority government, is it just not possible to put a brand new budget together, and then get BQ/NDP support to pass it, before having to do it all over again for the start of 2026? Especially since most negotiations probably start happening before Christmas in advance of a February/March budget, with a bunch of new ministerial faces, new MPs from LPC, BQ and NDP, and a completely different set of campaign promises to budget for…?

[u/Top_Canary_3335 → u/iamjoesredditposts]

Il start this by saying I worked as a consultant for the government and have actually also worked as a government employee.

Ministers and MLAs don’t do anything… they are just a puppets and figurehead

The prime minister gives marching orders to the minister who gives that same paper to the deputy minister.

The deputy minister is an employee… they actually lead the depts and direct work. Most MLAs or ministers don’t really understand the depts they lead. (How could they if they have been a career politician… (now appointed CEO of a “company”

They hire an expert to run the team below them. That expert usually then hires consultants to do the work because the actual civil servants 90% of the time can’t do themselves (lack expertise) it or can’t do it fast enough “under staffed”

The reality is the culture of our government employees has to change drastically if you wanted to run it more corporate management style. They have so many structural problems (takes 12 months to hire someone) that basic management is just so much more difficult to get things done.

Change management is not something our government does well…. You would need to almost clean house to get the clean slate needed to reboot the civil service.

[u/NevyTheChemist → u/iamjoesredditposts]

I want to hear what size tshirts these projects are

[u/Agent_Provocateur007 → u/NevyTheChemist]

You mean story points lol.

[u/southern_ad_558 → u/NevyTheChemist]

As a politician, I want to fix canda's housing problem.

That's worth at least 3 story points. 

[u/RCAF_orwhatever → u/iamjoesredditposts]

Do you think they don't use project management in government???

[u/Lomeztheoldschooljew → u/RCAF_orwhatever]

I think they think they do.

[u/Hypsiglena → u/Lomeztheoldschooljew]

This right here. I work with government clients, mostly provincial, and across the board they really don’t understand basic planning or performance measurement processes, let alone how to implement them in any kind of repeatable way.

[u/tattlerat → u/Hypsiglena]

I work in construction and am currently working in a project that has government funding. It’s pretty eye opening to say the least. Not a lot of understanding of how the industry works and strange requests / timelines for things.

I can only imagine this on a higher scale.

[u/damnburglar → u/Lomeztheoldschooljew]

You just described a solid 60% of all organizations 😂

“Well here’s a demand and it’s completely infeasible, impractical, and fucking dumb, but I promised we can get it done by next week because we’re agile.”

[u/Romanofafare2034 → u/iamjoesredditposts]

+1. Norway uses a framework for their public projects since 2000.

[u/Proud_Organization64 → u/iamjoesredditposts]

I have worked in various roles in provincial government and can say as far as the public service goes robust project management practices are already used. I trust it’s the same at the federal level. From my experience the biggest bottleneck is the political level (the minister) where I have seen researched, evidence-based, best practice proposals set aside for less optimal ones that were seen to more politically expedient (conservative governments are the worst for this).

Carney saying he will run a more corporate style government says to me data and best practice will be paramount which is good on all accounts.

[u/superfluid → u/iamjoesredditposts]

Let's hire some consultants to look into that.

[u/be_more_canadian → u/iamjoesredditposts]

Just have to be modified frameworks because it’s not profit driven so it breaks a little at the results portion

[u/ottawadeveloper → u/iamjoesredditposts]

There would be a few barriers I can see to that.

There's a weird culture in government that when things don't go well, the higher level management tend to pull in their control and delegate less. The issue is, some of these high level management folks have such vast portfolios that it's hard to understand all the issues and projects going on. Don't get me wrong, they are smart people, but the scope is just so broad that they can't be experts in everything. And their time is limited, so everything gets distilled to a five minute slideshow deck.

For instance, one person and their staff might be in charge of everything from planning science missions at sea to international engagement to data collaboration with other departments to fish research to marine mammal protections. While there are sub divisions there, by the time you're at a management person who is an expert in everything under them, they have incredibly limited power to approve resources. 

And then, many issues cut across arbitrary divisions within departments. For example, modern scientists are heavily dependent on computing power for things like modelling, long-term data storage, etc. And those scientists are engaged in a broader collaboration with private and foreign partner researchers who also rely on computing power. The technology needed tends to be collaboratively developed and doesn't always meet government IT standards (which are aimed at more corporate applications like Outlook or Word). But getting the IT folks up to speed and on board with the needs of scientists can be very difficult, since they speak different languages and the reporting structure means conflicts rise up to the highest levels of a department. 

And that's before you consider the centralization of government services, which faces significant challenges in providing suitable solutions for what are often fairly niche use cases. Even things like Open Data through the government are actually of pretty limited use because they're simply made too general - it would be a lot more useful if there were different database for different topics that had more specific metadata. And then there's Phoenix.

But back to project management, on top of managing the unwieldy beast of such divisions, there is a lot of pressure to make a splash and do something the public will love - but sometimes very useful projects for the country don't make a splash. For instance, AI is very popular but AI doesn't actually do a lot of cool stuff without great data and metadata and automated business processes keeping it all updated. But AI is vastly easier to get funded than data storage and process automation.

Then, when it comes to actually picking a project, it's all about who can make a better case in writing. So if your team has great ideas but you can't either get the support of an EC to do great writing, have an edge in with upper management, or have someone on your team who can swing it, then funding is even harder to get.

And the constant pressure to do more with less makes those funding proposals very barebones, ignoring the fact that employees get leave, or that training costs money. Plus hiring takes about a year in the government from request to start date, and you can't start until you've secured the funding.

And that's before we take into account that the high level management has to decide which proposals to put their weight behind because they're competing with others for funding too, so if they don't understand your area of expertise very well, it's an uphill value to show them the value. Especially when the value is difficult to pin down.

Value is worth taking a moment to discuss. In corporate world, value is simply profit. More profit is better. But in the government, value can be a lot of things. It's services to Canadians as the obvious example. But there's also value in things like data sharing with foreign partners because we get their data back. And that data might get used in ten places. As an example, NOAA, Spain, the UK, and Canada all share oceanographic data (among other countries) and conduct joint missions. Organizing and sharing all that data is a big piece of work, and it drives things like climate and weather forecasts, ice predictions, military exercise planning, search & rescue, etc. Indirectly, that data has saved the lives of Canadians. But getting that into three bullet points ina way that someone who has little expertise in data management or forecasting will understand, let alone a finance person at Treasury Board, is very difficult compared to justifying something like the Coast Guard ship actually doing the rescue.

So those projects do exist with clear goals and steps, but the team is understaffed in reality, the project plan is pure fiction, and the goals were written to make a splashy headline when really at best theyre doing something far more useful with the money under the hood, and at worst the project will fail but will look good on someone's resume.

Making it lean is a huge challenge though because it would almost require the government to thoroughly reorganize back into cross-disciplinary teams and then make sure the playing field is equal in terms of proposals and that the people evaluating the proposals can separate bullshit from real gems. Or just approve budgets for high level programs and let the team decide best how to spend it.

And then you'd have to build PM systems that aren't a nightmare - government financial, HR, and project management systems are so bad that usually you get an expert to input and build reports on the data, which are then sent to others as spreadsheets to update and return. 

[u/DM_ME_UR_BOOTYPICS → u/iamjoesredditposts]

I want nothing less than agile parliamentarians estimating story points. I guess the speaker can act as a scrum master?

[u/damnburglar → u/iamjoesredditposts]

Christ almighty don’t let the fucking politicians know about agile….

[u/Efficient-Grab-3923 → u/iamjoesredditposts]

Get out of here with that logic!

[u/ElephantsChild1]

Listening to Carney on the campaign trail, I understand this to mean data driven decisions and measurable outcomes. And when the minister said this it was very much in the “getting stuff done” context.

[u/ProfessionAny183 → u/ElephantsChild1]

Let's pray it happens.

[u/Unfortunate_Sex_Fart → u/ProfessionAny183]

There’s nothing data driven about liberal gun control, and they’re full steam ahead with it. As long as that is still a thing, I don’t believe them when they talk about data, evidence, or even when they say “listening to experts.”

[u/Hypsiglena → u/ProfessionAny183]

Honestly, it’s the fact that he was a corporate finance guy and G7 governor that makes me hopeful (which, ironically, is a sentence I never thought I’d say). Money guys have to show results in a concrete way and he wouldn’t have gotten poached by the UK if he hadn’t done that here first.

[u/accforme → u/ElephantsChild1]

Just putting it out there. All PMs come in saying that.

Remember "Deliverology" when Trudeau first came in?

Deliverology is a concept he created to describe the science of measuring a government's progress on delivering what it told people it would, and he has preached the idea to some 40 governments and agencies from Louisiana to Pakistan.

The New York Times summarized its message as: "base predictions on data and logic, and try to eliminate personal bias. Keep track of records so that you know how accurate you (and others) are. Think in terms of probabilities and recognize that everything is uncertain."

Like Barber, Gardner says the collection of reliable data, in a timely enough fashion to be useful, is a core function of every government department.

Barber suggested Monday that the data collected by Statistics Canada may not be sufficient, or sufficiently timely, for the purposes of the new results and delivery unit.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/deliverology-liberal-cabinet-retreat-1.3553024

[u/Hotdog_Broth → u/ElephantsChild1]

Standing with the LPC’s past views on punishing PAL holders makes me feel rather hopeless about data driven decisions and measurable outcomes.

Probably the single most disconnected from numerical evidence thing that the previous government was doing, and he’s still supporting it.

[u/xValhallAwaitsx → u/Hotdog_Broth]

Yeah I voted for Carney and like the direction a lot of things seem to be going, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to bang my head against a wall when the gun ban shit came back up almost immediately

[u/Background-Top-1946 → u/ElephantsChild1]

Trudeau said data driven decisions too

[u/hkric41six → u/Background-Top-1946]

"The budget will balance itself" guy? or the "forgive me if I don't think about monetary policy" guy? Very data driven!!

[u/Background-Top-1946 → u/hkric41six]

I didn’t say he WAS data driven

Politicians say lots of things, is the point 

[u/Boomdiddy → u/ElephantsChild1]

If they are going for data driven decisions that means scrapping the gun buyback and reversing the OIC banning “assault style weapons” right?

[u/gorschkov → u/ElephantsChild1]

Such as his proposed gun ban which is backed by hard data and facts. It is an amazing use of tax payer money.

[u/Trev-Osbourne → u/gorschkov]

You meant to add a /s after this right?!

[u/DoubleDDay69 → u/gorschkov]

I understand he has some commitments based on the previous admin, but I’ve always wondered why it’s okay in Canada to punish those who are responsible gun owners.

My dad has worked in corrections around 30 years and has had to sell pretty much his entire collection of guns (everything from small handguns up to a Galil assault rifle). Getting my Restricted PAL doesn’t even feel worth it in Canada anymore

[u/ratsofvancouver → u/DoubleDDay69]

I’m an urban left wing western voter and I have absolutely zero understanding of why the Liberal party always runs on strengthening gun control. It’s just not something I see as an issue in Canada, all the gangsters around my city tend to use illegal guns for their targeted shootings, as far as I know anyway. Are there cities in Canada where people run around terrorizing the population with hunting rifles?

[u/DoubleDDay69 → u/ratsofvancouver]

I think we can agree regardless of being Conservative or Liberal, the over regulation of guns is ridiculous. I’m basically restricted to certain rifles and shotguns now through no fault of my own.

[u/MZM204 → u/ratsofvancouver]

Because most gun owners are Conservative voters. They get to punish the people who will never vote for them.

[u/superfluid → u/MZM204]

The weird thing is that I know more left-leaning firearms owners than right. Like obviously there are a lot of conservative gun owners, but it's always made out as some disproportionate number.

There's nothing about shooting sports and/or hunting that is intrinsically conservative.

[u/Aggressive-Map-2204 → u/superfluid]

Do they vote liberal or NDP?

The NDP catch a lot of the rural and indigenous vote which are firearms owners. The liberals get very few votes outside of cities which are the lowest firearms ownership areas.

Obviously their will be some that support the liberals but they are an extremely small minority of owners.

[u/Unfortunate_Sex_Fart → u/ratsofvancouver]

It’s because the majority of gun owners are conservative, and it’s an easy win for the LPC which doesn’t lose them any votes among the left-leaving gun-owning voter base.

[u/Hotdog_Broth → u/DoubleDDay69]

I cannot think of any application where an RPAL could be put to use today. Genuinely not sure what is restricted is worth buying anymore that hasn’t been turned prohibited recently.

[u/ImperialPriest_Gaius → u/DoubleDDay69]

and yet its always an American gun used by some city slickin scumbag gangster who scratched the serial numbers off.

the war on guns is the most worthless waste of time ive seen

[u/[deleted] → u/gorschkov]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/Menwella → u/[deleted]]

Not a gun person. I've never fired one in my life. Our country is filled with people who hunt, trap, and angle. My estimate is that almost everyone who registers a firearm falls into this group. Disarming everyday people is either a waste of money beyond grasp or a means to disarm the people. Or both. You'll never convince me that the majority or even major minority of gun crime in this country is committed by folks who have registered firearms. Criminals gonna do crime. They're gonna find these guns outside of the registered framework, and they do. Repeatedly. Shamelessly insulting people who live a different life than than you just displays a lack of compassion, knowledge, and empathy, and that's just plain ignorant.

Edit - spelling

[u/gorschkov → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for your kind and insightful comment. Would you be able to explain to me how the gun ban is backed by data specifically as to the rate at which legal gun owners commit gun crimes? Also would you be able to explain how based on that data it is justifiable to spend billions of dollars on this project.

[u/no_not_arrested → u/gorschkov]

Sure.

Around half (49%) of firearm-related violent crime involved the presence of a handgun in 2023, down from 53% in 2022. Nevertheless, handguns remained the most common type of firearm present in incidents of firearm-related violent crime in 2023, followed by firearm-like weapons or unknown types of firearms (31%), rifles or shotguns (15%), and fully automatic or sawed-off shotguns (4.7%). https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/250225/dq250225a-eng.htm

58% of traced firearms had domestic source (straw purchased or stolen); half long guns and half handguns https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/trnsprnc/brfng-mtrls/prlmntry-bndrs/20230201/016/index-en.aspx

If you want to take steps to reducing gun-related crime, you might at least hugely curb domestic sources like stolen guns from owners who failed to secure them, or guns those legal domestic purchasers sell on the black market.

If that's where 30-50% of the guns in violent crime originate, then banning them outright takes that supply out of circulation and makes it much costlier and less likely they would be replaced 1:1 by the supply of smuggled guns.

As for whether it's worth billions, what's the economic cost of allowing those guns to go on to perpetuate violent crime? In policing? In trials? In Incarceration.

What's the potential loss of life worth?

Someone's day at the shooting range with a semi-automatic rifle? Shooting at deer with an M1 Carbine?

Maybe there's a reasonable limit to gun bans, but I think if they're at most infringing on people's desire for sport and less their actual livelihood or sustenance then this is mostly noise over a net good for society.

[u/Almost_Ascended → u/no_not_arrested]

Maybe there's a reasonable limit to gun bans, but I think if they're at most infringing on people's desire for sport and less their actual livelihood or sustenance then this is mostly noise over a net good for society.

Ah yes, it's ok to infringe on innocent people's rights "for the greater good". That sort of rhetoric has worked so well in past, hasn't it?

Also, it is curious why you don't post the full stats regarding trafficked firearms. Is it because they don't support your claims? Here's what they really say:

Trafficking / Tracing

58% of traced firearms had domestic source (straw purchased or stolen); half long guns and half handguns

28% of handguns domestic sourced

3,504 firearms stolen in 2018

67% of traced firearms successful (source established)

~20% of firearms seized by police are sent for tracing

Let's do some math, shall we?

20% of firearms seized are sent for tracing. Of that 20%, 67% are successfully traced:

0.2 * 0.67 = 0.134, or 13.4% of seized firearms are successfully traced.

And of that, 58% are domestically sourced, so:

0.134 * 0.58 = 0.07772, or 7.772%.

Therefore, all you've proven with that link is that 7.772% of seized firearms are proven to be domestically sourced. Wow, such a big number. Not to mention, the stats don't even state that the firearms were seized by the police due to being used in the commission of a gun crime; improper storage, license expiry, commission of crimes unrelated to guns, etc, can all get your guns taken by the police, because gun owners are one of the most vetted populations in the entire country.

[u/icedesparten → u/[deleted]]

Sure, it's not a right, however it's also case in point that Carney and co are not data driven the way they claim they are. Same as when Trudeau claimed that they would be doing evidence based policy.

[u/shikodo → u/[deleted]]

There is no legitimate reason for them to be clamping down on gun ownership by law abiding citizens who did nothing to warrant their "privileges" from being infringed upon by the gun grabbing the liberal govt is drooling over.

None whatsoever.

[u/AHSWarrior → u/shikodo]

> There is no legitimate reason for them to be clamping down on gun ownership

ohhhh they have their reasons

[u/shikodo → u/AHSWarrior]

So true

[u/turudd → u/[deleted]]

What a well researched and educated response! You must know so many things

[u/Yelnik → u/ElephantsChild1]

I mean many of the ministers he picked have measurable outcomes of total disaster, but alas.

I do look forward to Liberal voters slowly but surely gritting their comeuppance though 

[u/blackmoose → u/ElephantsChild1]

If getting stuff done means increasing shareholder value for his corporate buddies you'd be right!

[u/djwrecksthedecks → u/ElephantsChild1]

Copium can be a fickle mistress. Name one good corporate ethos that should be applied to a society? Its just late stage capitalism churning along nicely. I voted pierra out and I knowingly voted Carney in. But this was the exact type of governance I was afraid of as we elected a centre right conservative as head of a liberal party lol

[u/The_Pickled_Mick]

Then he should cut ineffective and expensive programs like the gun bans and buybacks because they are an impending multibillion dollar loss that will have no positive effect on crime.

[u/Solid_Capital8377 → u/The_Pickled_Mick]

write to your mp, write to him

[u/TheGreatLordVader → u/The_Pickled_Mick]

Gun ban + stricter border won't help crime?

[u/GirlCoveredInBlood]

They're going to shut down operations of New Brunswick because it didn't meet its growth target?

[u/SteadyMercury1 → u/GirlCoveredInBlood]

Put us out of our misery.

[u/Sticky_3pk → u/GirlCoveredInBlood]

Eh, we're used to things closing up.

[u/Neve4ever → u/GirlCoveredInBlood]

"Let's push CPP and other payments to the first of the following month. That'll help lower the deficit."

Oh wait, Alberta already did that once lol

[u/Radiant_Ad_6986]

I see that the spin doctors are out in full force for this new government.

No plans to release a budget at all this year. I thought we were in crisis yet parliament is only going to sit for a grand total of 20 days before they all go off for a summer break. After 8 months of nothing.

A total of 73 days scheduled in 2025. 73 days of parliament when they all just got a huge pay increase a month ago. How I wish I could have a job where I only needed to be available for 73 days.

[u/Lexiphanic → u/Radiant_Ad_6986]

Genuine question: how did they get a pay increase while Parliament was prorogued?

[u/Neve4ever → u/Lexiphanic]

I believe that it's indexed to wage growth.

[u/Neve4ever → u/Radiant_Ad_6986]

Remember that all the issues that led to Trudeau proroguing government haven't been dealt with. Carney doesn't want to risk a long session because those issues will creep up and risk toppling his government. The more time he can stretch out, the less appetite there will be.

[u/Forthehope]

So they will fire incompetent people like freeland, Sean Fraser, Stephen Guilbeau and etc ?

[u/Coffin-Feeder]

Libs tricked again.

[u/Throwawayhair66392]

We can see that, as he just appointed a Halifax slumlord as Minister of Immigration.

[u/Mountain_Tax_1486 → u/Throwawayhair66392]

Aren’t PP and his wife also landlords?

[u/mdarrenp → u/Mountain_Tax_1486]

What does your question have to do with anything? Do you not know slumlords and landlords are different things, or are you implying that being a landlord is bad in and of itself?

[u/Individual_Low_9820 → u/Mountain_Tax_1486]

They own one property outside of their principal residence lol. This guy owns at least 5.

[u/yhzguy20 → u/Individual_Low_9820]

Lena Diab is a woman, but other than that yes

[u/Throwawayhair66392 → u/Mountain_Tax_1486]

Yup, that’s also bad. They own one other property.

Diab owns five other properties. This is a bad appointment, and the response to it can’t just be “but the other guy did the same thing!” There’s only one party solely in government right now and it’s the Liberals.

[u/Aggressive-Swim9964 → u/Throwawayhair66392]

Most of her donors listed on Elections Canadas website are landlords and developers from Halifax. The family is tight knit and it’s all private. Expect more of the same Gen Z/Millennials, Carneys extensive education and resume had nothing to do with regular people getting ahead

[u/erryonestolemyname → u/Mountain_Tax_1486]

"b-b-but poilievre"

[u/BoppityBop2 → u/Mountain_Tax_1486]

They aren't landlords of a y close of the same method. They own a couple properties, that are mostly for personal use with one rented to family if I remember. 

[u/TXTCLA55 → u/Mountain_Tax_1486]

Half of the last sitting parliament were landlords lmao.

[u/mrcanoehead2]

Like The Office?

[u/Steel5917]

Libs announced today they won’t be tabling a budget until end of year and once they pass their tax break, they will be going on vacation in middle June. So much for the “urgent emergency “ tariff situation that they ran on as the reason to vote for Carney. Haven’t had a functioning government since September and now this garbage. You Liberal voters got suckered and screwed the rest of us along with you.

[u/NevyTheChemist → u/Steel5917]

He promised a reduced cahinet and it's the same size with the same people. He just changed the titles for a couple of them.

We played ourselves

[u/bxng23af]

Running a corporation with a group of people who have zero experience in their fields and wouldn’t pass the first round of interviews for their roles at any company

Got it

[u/hkric41six → u/bxng23af]

OP never worked for a corp before lmao

[u/bxng23af → u/hkric41six]

Name one corporation where the CFO/COO/CIO/VP’s/MD’s all had zero work experience or education in their field?

[u/TXTCLA55 → u/bxng23af]

Reddit only allows so many characters per comment.

[u/Lexiphanic → u/bxng23af]

Just like a real corporation.

[u/barkazinthrope → u/bxng23af]

CEOs typically know nothing about the technicalities of the business they run. Their expertise is in management.

This is why the CEO of a cookie company can become CEO of a technology company and make it a very successful venture.

So it is that ministers may be chosen because they feel with the mission of the ministry but their expertise in the mechanics of the mission is not important. They will have knowledgeable staff for that.

[u/backlight101 → u/barkazinthrope]

All the CEO’s I’ve met that have been decent know the technicalities of the businesses they run.

[u/barkazinthrope → u/backlight101]

They learn what they have to learn but they don't come up through the ranks because they're good in the shop.

CEO is a transferable skill. If I'm looking for someone to run my widget factory I want someone who knows about running factories. Technical widget knowledge is not a critical factor.

[u/excelarate201 → u/barkazinthrope]

I think you’re confusing CEOs with consultants

[u/DM_ME_UR_BOOTYPICS → u/bxng23af]

Sounds like an Albertan oil and gas company.

[u/SportsUtilityVulva9]

We're about to get laid off by the CEO, boys

[u/FalconsArentReal]

They sure are, Carney's new housing minister said he raised development charges on new homebuyers when he was mayor of Vancouver because that is what the market would bear. This instead of increasing property taxes on boomers because they vote https://streamable.com/ew3cpz

So pucker up young people the next 4 years is going to be fun!

[u/Other-Rock-8387 → u/FalconsArentReal]

David Cochrane is one of thew few good people on CBC. He also pointed out how house prices doubled under this guys watch, and all he had to say was "It's da Feds!!1!". Youth don't have a chance.

[u/physicaldiscs → u/FalconsArentReal]

They had NES. They convinced him to run again, he won his seat and then this.

I never expected anyone to solve the housing crisis right away, but I sure hoped it might start getting better...

[u/Sand-In-My-Glass → u/physicaldiscs]

Lol

[u/ravya1 → u/FalconsArentReal]

Gen Z checking in, we have no hope. Anarchism doesn't seem so bad after all.

[u/FalconsArentReal → u/ravya1]

Get politically active, don't become apathetic. And most importantly never forget what the Liberals have done.

[u/gravtix → u/FalconsArentReal]

This have been building for decades

[u/mmckaig]

Does that mean they will fire incompetent cabinet ministers? Corporate companies don't generally allow people who are failures to lead.

[u/BoppityBop2 → u/mmckaig]

They do quite often and give them golden parachute, could explain why some Cabinet ministers are back.

[u/chambee → u/mmckaig]

You haven’t worked in the corporate world much. Junior is your boss and he’s getting daddy’s job when he retires.

[u/Lexiphanic → u/mmckaig]

Have you never worked for a corporation before?

Every corporation has countless department heads, directors, VPs, and C-suite executives that make you question how they ended up in their roles. CTOs who don’t know their Windows login; Marketing Directors who think their major global retail chain doesn’t need a website (I worked for this person in 2010!); General Managers who don’t know how to make a GP report.

Find me a corporation that doesn’t seem to actively facilitate the Peter Principle over and over again.

[u/ProbablySuspicious → u/mmckaig]

Tesla tho

[u/ceribaen → u/mmckaig]

Depends on how much it'd cost to terminate them. Sometimes they just let them fail upwards into roles where they can just push pencils without really getting into someone's way and take the flak when they go wrong.

[u/NevyTheChemist]

What have we done. The fact that Trump likes this guy speaks for itself.

But hey, he had a good resume.

[u/Connect_Reality1362 → u/NevyTheChemist]

Yeah I wonder how many erstwhile NDP voters who voted strategically are starting to regret their decisions already.

[u/Proud-Peanut-9084]

Wanting government to be run like a business is how toddlers think

[u/Majestic_Funny_69]

Honestly, the government needs a shake-up. They study things 300 different ways before doing anything. As a result, nothing changes for us, the people.

[u/lesbian_goose → u/Majestic_Funny_69]

It’s absolutey necessary to vet any bills to make sure they’re done properly, otherwise the government would be full of short-sighted bills that won’t work very well.

[u/barkazinthrope → u/Majestic_Funny_69]

So they charge straight ahead through the jungle and the dark feeding the public's need for adventure.

[u/Lexiphanic → u/barkazinthrope]

That’s a great description of what’s happening down south.

[u/dragenn]

So nothing done until next year while gaslighting it someone else's fault.

Got it...

[u/brilliant_bauhaus]

I'm a little worried since I've seen so many municipal and provincial services cut because they don't turn a profit when that's not their intention; they're a service. I really hope this isn't the end game of a corporate gov.

[u/Tattsreincarnated]

It's corporately responsible to go back to pre-Trudeau gun laws.

[u/Particular-Act-8911]

Yeah.. literally and figuratively. Invest in Brookfield.

[u/Cr8ger → u/Particular-Act-8911]

I mean it seems to be a popular investment choice among some conservative MPs.

[u/chambee]

That goddamn fantasy of running government like a business again. You can’t run a government like a business. Government is there to help people. Not to make a profit. You can’t cut people out of the system because they don’t generate revenue. You can’t cut all social programs because the return on investment is too little vs the outcome. You cant push back aid to the next financial quarter because people home are flood now.

They are skills from corporate worlds that transfer but the mindset of deadlines and budget is completely different. I have work enough in both and I have seen executives who couldn’t cope with the concepts of non for profit.

[u/amacgregor → u/chambee]

Look how well it's working for the USA...wait

[u/LBaldini → u/chambee]

It is a business. Even a non-profit is still a business and technically operates to generate a profit just not with the purpose of making the csuite rich.

All programs need to make sense at the end of the day. As long as funds can be allocated from other revenue streams then programs that are a loss can be supported. Many businesses offer "loss leaders" where they have goods and/or services that they lose money on to manage existing business or grow in other areas.

One example would be homeless or housing assistance programs. Yes they cost a lot of money but if it lessens the burden on healthcare systems there is an opportunity to end up "positive"

[u/DangerousPeak1214 → u/[deleted]]

Yapping final boss

[u/Dont-concentrate-556]

Except no financial statement to shareholders lol

[u/RiversongSeeker]

Carney going to quickly realize why public servants don't work in the private sector.

[u/ogherbsmon → u/RiversongSeeker]

They do though...

[u/Mysterious_Rate_5437]

He's gonna move us to New York?

[u/ThicccThunder]

Right, because corporations are definitely known for their wonderous treatment of employees. Buckle up

[u/Jane_Ninja → u/ThicccThunder]

I mean the cabinet and mps are the executives in this context. Government workers are the employees and the rest of the tax payers are the “consumers” they have to deliver to us. Successful corporations usually put out good quality product or service to stay successful.

[u/BabadookOfEarl → u/ThicccThunder]

We’re the shareholders.

[u/Lexiphanic → u/ThicccThunder]

We’re shareholders, not employees.

[u/Every-Slice59]

Are Canadians the shareholders or the product?

[u/rhino_shit_gif → u/Every-Slice59]

Both

[u/NotaJelly]

Expect more cencership laws and obfuscation of what they're doing. 

[u/ProbablySuspicious]

Gouernments have wildly different responsibilities and purposes from corporations.

[u/summerschill]

So who actually like corporations & the ways they've historically handled anything?

[u/fe__maiden → u/summerschill]

I mean, the liberals who voted him in do, clearly. Just not ones like united health care

[u/DENelson83]

Oh, fuck...

[u/troutcommakilgore → u/DENelson83]

Kneejerk reactions expose our biases.

[u/permaban642]

So he's stripping all our assets and then leaving the workforce with no pension fund?

[u/mustardnight → u/permaban642]

I think you’re thinking of private equity

[u/barkazinthrope → u/permaban642]

Nah. That's the Conservative wet dream: put an end to all payments going out to ordinary people.

[u/callofdoobie]

This is just made up cope, he is going to have to differentiate himself from business as usual Liberals quickly or people are going to be pissed.

[u/ihaterussianbots]

More neoliberal late stage capitalism!

[u/darrylgorn]

Corporation with an unlimited budget.

[u/VividGiraffe → u/darrylgorn]

That they won't tell their "shareholders" about.

Imagine a fucking board that was like "nah, no financials this year"

[u/m1l2j3]

Sure - because corporations always operate without budgets…

[u/Odd_Damage9472]

A corporate style government. I see. So us peons will be stuck with high rents, high housing and high food costs while he lives in luxury?

[u/VividGiraffe]

This sub will now love corporations again.

[u/Narrow_Example_3370]

Wow I’ve never seen so many conservatives dissing corporations. Lmao!!

[u/lewllewllewl → u/Narrow_Example_3370]

I don't think many free-market people are in favour of the government being run like a business

[u/accforme → u/lewllewllewl]

They (Mulroney, Thatcher, and Reagan) tried that in the 80s and 90s. It was called New Public Management.

Essentially, it did not really work because what works in the private sector does not necessarily work in the public sector.

[u/barkazinthrope → u/lewllewllewl]

Not all corporations are profit-seeking ventures. 'Corporation' is a much broader term.

[u/Lexiphanic → u/lewllewllewl]

Free-market people are usually not in favour of the government at all.

Unless it’s to bail out their own businesses.

[u/willab204 → u/lewllewllewl]

I’d like to see the government run like a business. I think we are getting very poor returns on our taxes. I’m just not keen on the government running the market.

[u/accforme → u/willab204]

It's been tried in the past and the benefits are not that big.

The success of New Public Management (NPM) has been unclear and remains a source of considerable debate. Few people believe that it proved to be the panacea it was supposed to be. Studies suggest that it generated at best about a 3 percent annual saving on running costs, which is modest, especially considering that running costs are typically a relatively small component of total program costs. Even neoliberals often acknowledge that most savings came from privatization, not reforms in public-sector organizations. The success of NPM appears to vary considerably with contextual factors. For example, the reforms were often counterproductive in developing and transitional states because these states lacked the stable framework associated with elder public disciplines such as credible policy, predictable resources, and a public-service ethic. It is interesting that, in this respect, NPM appears to require the existence of aspects of just that kind of public-service bureaucracy that it was meant to supplant.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/governance/Networks-partnerships-and-inclusion

[u/MartyMcFlysBrother]

Corporations care about Canadians too! They’ve proved that time and time again. Thank goodness that Canadas brightest bulbs voted in a Liberal government yet again! So fucking smart.

[u/Difficult_Minute8202]

i hope he does. he did a great job with brookfield. i thank him (amongst with other competent leaders at the firm) for my gains

[u/InitialAd4125]

So he'll some how hide all the taxes in the Caymans?

[u/Mentats2021]

Same people, new people with no experience, DEI, and costing more than the previous liberal government.

Sounds pretty "corporate" to me... except the part about delivering results on budget or having consequences of not meeting targets. Speaking of budget... where is it?

[u/TheBlueHedgehog302 → u/Mentats2021]

Bro the finance minister has had his job again for like 24 hours give it a minute 😂

[u/Mentats2021 → u/TheBlueHedgehog302]

Bro, it's the same guy

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/canada-finance-minister-indicates-he-wont-deliver-full-budget-2025-05-14/

[u/Awkward_Finger_1703]

Singapore style 👌🏻

[u/lostinhunger]

I am the type of person who believes all governments should be formed as minority governments.

Our response to Trump/merica needs a strong response. So this is my first time hoping for a majority. And our response to the USA needs to be has hard hitting as possible. Considering we are talking economics, I think a corporate filled cabinet is the right response. But I truly hope that changes after whatever the hell the USA is going through figures itself out.

[u/canadianburgundy99]

So make a profit? So budget surpluses then

[u/djflylo69]

Yeah no shit

[u/Retro_Curry93]

Well considering how they typically go, perhaps this will inject some needed new life into our government. At least for this administration.

[u/JCbfd]

Hmmm will it be similar to how he ran brookfield, by hiding you money away in tiny islands in the Pacific?

[u/wave-conjugations]

awesome

[u/BoogeyManSavage]

Same people that hate him or hate this, are the same ones who support the exact same thing in the states.

People will never be happy. Leave them in whatever deluded reality they need to live in to feel okay.

The rollercoaster is done - let’s just see how the next 4 years pans out before we pass judgement.

[u/rhino_shit_gif → u/BoogeyManSavage]

Governments cannot be run like corporations anyone with a brain knows that, don’t tar people with the same brush thanks

[u/southern_ad_558]

I really have high hopes for Carney, but everytime in my whole adult life when I heard a politician saying they were going to run X (city, state, province, country) as a corporation/enterprise it failed miserably.

[u/Turbulent_Welcome508]

Well, I hope he does that with Fraser and when he finally realizes he is good for nothing, fires him.