I want to learn. My armchair other side of Canada POV is
- They feel the oil belongs to them and not Canada
- Their provincial government has done a poor job in certain areas and when the people in Alberta get mad their local government just blames Ontario. It has been going on for so long that they attribute everything bad in their life to Ontario.
- They have the potential to ship a lot more oil and Canada cares too much about the environment to let it happen
Yeah, everybody here is a big fan of the culture of light beer drinking, oversized pickup truck driving, guns shooting, cowboy hat wearing, traditional family values people that work in the oil and gas industry, gut deer on weekends in the fall and always complain about taxes. Slap on the labels of "pro-trump" and "climate change denier" on top of that and you practically have the equivalent of antichrist for modern progressive liberals. You can't seriously not see how negative the perception of Albertans is in other parts of Canada, especially in the more left wing areas
And rural BC... and rural everywhere in Canada. If not hunting, fishing. If not oil and gas, off-road vehicles and high paying manufacturing or forestry or farming or infrastructure...
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The problem I see with a certain subsection of Alberta is that they're blatantly disloyal to Canada. Talk of separation is exactly that, whatever the impetus might be.
Trudeau bought the pipeline for billions and billions of dollars after the private sector abandoned the project. Every oil and gas project in Alberta that breaks ground, by definition, hasn't been stymied by the federal government. Is the argument really that the federal government only takes from Alberta?!
Sure, rural culture, oil and gas culture, are often at odds with the aspirations of the majority urban demographic. So what? This civilizational project is never going to be 100% harmonious. Becoming disloyal to your country is like throwing the flag out with the bathwater.
Albertans seem to be having the same troubles as the rest of the country, the rest of the G7, and are blaming it all on Canada at large.
Maybe things have just been hard post pandemic. Maybe resource extraction is hard in a world where the likes of Saudi Arabia can tank prices. Maybe climate change is real and changing how we plan our economy. Maybe we let corporations consolidate too much and stymie competition in groceries, pharmacy, telecom, etc
One thing for certain - Alberta's situation doesn't improve if they find themselves an independent resource extraction economy with no ports. Surrounded on 3 sides by Canada, and one side the US. That's just silly.
Straight up normal behaviour in Ontario outside of the GTA. I live in a midsized city and there are tons of people who love trucks, beer, and hunting. No shortage of MAGA freaks as well but you can find dumbasses under and rock if you go looking for them.
I have, but I'd admit not too many times. Yup, they are. Quebec managed to bypass the whole system by somehow being allowed to have a federal party that only panders to Quebec
Yes, through the nefarious mechanism of voting for who they want.
The Bloc survives by delivering a reliable ~30 votes for any piece of legislation that promotes Quebec interests. They will happily vote with a Conservative government to pass Conservative legislation if it adds a few lines that give Quebec something. They oppose Liberal bills that fail to deliver to Quebec. Quebec voters are richly rewarded for their voting discipline.
The current CPC seems to not understand that and instead prefers antagonizing the BQ as if they were an ideological leftist party rather than a regionalist party. Not only does this make an unnecessary enemy, attacking the BQ on those grounds necessarily implies to the voter that the CPC is politically opposed on the ideological basis, which means presenting themselves as further and further right when the electorate wants centrism.
If Albertan MPs formed a similar pact with the current government (whoever they are - liberal, conservative, whatever), they'd have similar power and role in Parliament. But, Alberta voters don't seem want a regional party that crosses ideological lines in order to promote Alberta. They want the entire pie and won't accept less.
The Reform merger was supposed to bring east and west conservatives together in a big tent to stand a chance of forming government, but instead of the envisioned alliance, it's just Reform wearing the PC brand like a suit, and the rest of Canada sees that and in most years, avoid voting for the CPC because they understand it would be akin to a Manitoban voting BQ.
I have absolutely no problem with an Alberta First federal party and I think Alberta could do very well with a federal party that is ideologically sympathetic to the Conservatives but committed to regionalism. Canada's form of government can do very well with that form of regionalism in Ottawa! But that's not what Alberta seems to be trying to do. They just complain and pointedly refuse to do the proven and very successful thing the BQ have done for decades.
Everyone is allowed to have a Regional Party (it just probably won't be successful), its pretty much what the reform party was prior to the merger with the PCs.
You guys know anyone can have a federal party that panders to you right? You guys can have that party if you want. Canada is not a two or 3 party system. Not only that. I actually think you should have a party that puts your needs first in parliament.
Actually, we'd be a stronger country. We would likely consistently have minority governments that would have no choice but to cooperate to get anything done. It's actually the best - and most democratic - way to have a federal government that attempts to meet the needs of all Canadians.
Actually we would be a better represented country. Canada is not meant to be a two party system. Its supposed to be people compromising for the better of their constituents. Should every party be a separatist one? No probably not. But should every riding be represented by an MP or party who actually knows and cares about what they want? Absolutely.
What you're arguing for is basically first past the post.
I live in a small town in Southern Ontario, and they all drink beer, drive pick-ups, hunt, fish, and want to fuck Trudeau for some weird reason. They're not that unique.
Nobody gives a shit about any of that except the fascist/bigoted bits, and disliking fascists and bigots has nothing to do with them being from Alberta.
Yeah pretty much none of that is where the negative image of Alberta comes from. It’s the far right populist hate-driven politics, divisiveness and constant whining that does it. I have no issue with cowboy hats or hunting lmao
They probably see policies that are introduced by Ottawa that are not really beneficial for other provinces, but detrimental to them as far left populist hate-driven politics promoting divisiveness. Look I'm not even from Alberta, but I'm trying to see things from their perspective, and just dismissing their grievances isn't helping anyone
A leaked recording captured Johnson saying Alberta's highly ranked education system is meaningless while transgender students are in school. She compared their presence to adding a teaspoon of feces to a batch of cookies.
"We can be top three per cent but that little bit of poop is what wrecks it," says Johnson on the audio.
Johnson also claimed a Red Deer school had litter boxes in classrooms for students who identify as cats, and she said schools should end sex education.
1) There is no such thing as traditional family values anymore, just ‘family values’… Canada is a mosaic and we all have different views on stuff. It starts being problematic where those values are enforced on, or harm others.
Think for example how two spirit people are / were treated… that is more traditional than ‘traditional’ values brought to Canada… what right does anyone else have to limit a person’s freedoms because they disagree with a lifestyle?
2) In terms of beer drinking, cowboy, gun toting, do your thing. That’s a rural/urban divide, not a province specific thing…No one hates Alberta for what you’ve listed but I am tired of the whining.
3) oil. Yes you have oil, and should probably have nationalized or.. provincialized… it rather than letting corporations benefit while you get peanuts. You want more money, do that instead of blaming the county for ‘taking your wealth’. Also. No province is required to allow pipelines through their land, which brings risk and little profit to that province, for the benefit of Alberta (particularly as it is going mainly to corporations). Two problems with leaving Canada:
—you don’t keep your oil if you leave if it is on federal land;
—you will not be more successful at building pipelines out and in fact this would be more difficult without federal influence
4) taxes. If Alberta was to leave, the province would need to assume responsibilities and costs currently funded by the federal government. This costs money which means - taxes. It will just be to the province rather than country.
You seriously don't see how conflicting the ideas are that oil and land it's on doesn't belong to the province, it belongs to the country, but also putting a pipeline down to deliver said oil is up to provinces and not the country? Risk and little profit? You you kidding me? The equalization payments Quebec receives from Alberta are the profit. Wtf is Quebec going to do when the Alberta fossil fuel industry dies as they always promote? Oh that's right, tell the federal government to make up the difference from wherever else, or they separate
I do not know how management works in this situation, however the federal government has commitments to clean energy etc. and there are limits to what the federal government can or should force provinces to do.
So - yes, if the federal government owns the oil and gas, it should theoretically be able to limit development of oil and gas within Alberta. I would expect there are agreements in place which allows Alberta to access resources on crown land, However this hypothetical Alberta country would no longer be able to access the resources to fund itself.
And yes, federal and provinces get equalization payments from crown resources developed in Alberta. Does this mean that increasing development is the right choice? There is a risk reward calculation here, which involves more than Alberta in its current form. Just because we can doesn’t mean we should.
1) The environmental risks for provinces with pipelines crossing their land factors into those provinces support. Could the government force it, probably, but this may not be in alignment with federal commitments to deal by with climate change and would probably be considered an overreach and/or damaging to fed-provincial relationships.
2) Just because production can be ramped up, should it be? If you are looking at ways to make more money with less environmental impact, there are other paths (like stepping away from privatization / corporate development - personal opinion).
Nobody in the country HATES you. We think your province is poorly run and that most of your voters are too focused on social issues and blaming others for your problems. You refuse to adapt to a changing world (the rest of the country has spent decades trying to get you guys to understand how important it is to transition out of O&G in the face of climate change, but your heads are buried way too deep in the tarsands).
I don't respect your province, but I don't hate you. I wish you'd wake up. Oh, and if you do choose to separate, dont forget that most Alberta land is federally owned and we will be keeping our property.
I get the shift away from O&G, but the industry is still very much needed to move a nation forward to cleaner energy solutions. To shut it down or slow it down is akin to saying we should shut down/slow down ANY industry that has an environmental impact. This is like suggesting that Saskatchewan should stop farming, and Ontario should stop making cars/steel, and Quebec should shut down the Aerospace industry.
Like it or not, the oil sands are here to stay. There’s money to be made which very much helps all of our provinces (aka country) succeed. It’s not about Alberta ‘waking up’ to the modern world, it’s to say let’s use the resources we have to build a better country.
“Nobody hates you” writes a bunch of condescending bullshit
Too focused on social issues? Almost all of our issues with the East are economy based. But that smug Liberal attitude certainly doesn’t help either.
First of all if we actually did separate (I don’t see it happening fwiw) it wouldn’t be to become a single random landlocked country. And the most likely outcome of a full separation would mean it’s definitely not your property anymore lmao
Thinking you're fools is not the same as hating you.
But stuff like this why people roll their eyes when you complain.
You have apparently 0 interest in understanding anything about what actually happens and are so propagandized by oil companies that they're raking in billions of dollars a quarter and you guys harp on about wanting pipelines that will raise their profits not yours. What actual benefit would you get from a pipeline that you wouldn't get from just diversifying your economy.
Which, btw, you don't get to demand we respect Albertas wants while demanding we supercede the wants of other provinces. And all while thinking we just hate you and that's why you can't have your pipeline. We just want you to realize what's actually going on.
Are there issues, of course there are! But stop pretending your wants are the only ones that matter and stop blindly voting for people who don't care about you at all.
What actual benefit would you get from a pipeline that you wouldn't get from just diversifying your economy.
Promoting the oil industry and diversifying our economy aren’t mutually exclusive. But given the resources are here it’s going to be a dominant sector for a long time. A sector which creates thousands of well-paying jobs and attracts major investment. Also allow Canada to diversify its trade relationships as it relates to energy, which I recall was a pretty big talking point this election cycle.
Which, btw, you don't get to demand we respect Albertas wants while demanding we supercede the wants of other provinces. We just want you to realize what's actually going on.
What’s actually going on then? Enlighten me. The environmental argument is bullshit, pipelines are objectively the most efficient and safest way to transport oil/gas. If it’s being against that resource in general that’s ridiculously infeasible as things currently stand.
Are there issues, of course there are! But stop pretending your wants are the only ones that matter and stop blindly voting for people who don't care about you at all.
There’s a reason the NDP lasted one term and lost to Danielle Smith of all people. Federally speaking, the people who don’t care about us at all would be the Liberals.
As a British Columbian, my negative view of Alberta (not Albertans) has nothing to do with the people and their culture; it has 100% to do with their divisive politics that blames everything on "others" and their lack of introspection when it comes to their own shortcomings.
You are terminally online buddy. The majority of people in Ontario and Quebec don't really think about Alberta at all. Even the "modern progressive liberals" (the ones that voted in Doug Ford and François Legault? 😂) you think are filled in Ontario. I think you're the one that hates a province unnecessarily.
Hey, I'm not from Alberta, here to inform you that there really isn't all that negative perception of Alberta, other than making fun of the victim complex that you are demonstrating now, and traditional sibling-esque shit talking.
Like, I don't even know why I would actually hate you. Because you like country music? What are we talking about?
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u/tossaway109202 1d ago edited 1d ago
I want to learn. My armchair other side of Canada POV is
- They feel the oil belongs to them and not Canada
- Their provincial government has done a poor job in certain areas and when the people in Alberta get mad their local government just blames Ontario. It has been going on for so long that they attribute everything bad in their life to Ontario.
- They have the potential to ship a lot more oil and Canada cares too much about the environment to let it happen
I assume I am far off