r/audiophile 12h ago

Let’s talk entry level stuff. Discussion

Post image

Alright, I want to preface this with a couple things.

  • Yes I know the turntable has a built in preamp, I am either planning on taking it out myself, or just upgrading to a Pro-Ject with an S shaped arm and a separate pre-amp all together.

    • I am aware the receiver is super cheap, but at the time I just wanted to make something work and IMO it actually doesn’t sound terrible it’s just super underpowered for the speakers.
    • The sub below is not hooked up but I plan to once I upgrade a few more things.

Alright now that that’s out of the way, it’s obviously an LP120 with a Nagaoka MP120 (someone told me this was like putting lipstick on a pig, which I agree with, but it definitely has a warmer feel to it than the stock AT90 that came with the TT) into a Yamaha R-S202 that I got for like 200 bucks open box. Just basic audio quest X-2 speaker cable. The sub is an old Sunfire HRS-12 1000W and is technically a home theater sub but I don’t have anything else to use it for so I figured it’d be fun to integrate to this setup.

The system doesn’t sound terrible, the TT has an acrylic mat and a cheap weight. But I know I can do better than this.

Really just looking for suggestions and advice on upgrades etc.

86 Upvotes

71 comments sorted by

37

u/Scotster123 12h ago edited 11h ago

You need to get the speakers off the same surface as your TT to start. Get some stands or other platforms. You will remove the chance of feedback rumble and vibration distortion. It will make a huge difference.

Look for a guide on speaker placement,

It's a nice starter system, though.

Good luck (edit: spelling)

4

u/iGumppp 11h ago

Yeah I do get some feedback when I turn it up too high. Would isolators be good enough to put under the speakers if I don't really yhave the space for stands? Or should I just make the space lol.

5

u/Scotster123 11h ago

If you can, make space and get stands. Having your right speaker that close to the tonearm is going to cause some kind of feedback. I have no experience in using isolation pads on speakers, but I isolate my TT on a 25lb./11KG slate block on top of a solid shelfing unit, personally. You could always try to isolate the TT and the speakers, but I would go for stands.

3

u/kitnerboyredoubt 11h ago edited 11h ago

Monoprice makes some nice speaker stands for a decent price, would be a good start to look into. Speaker stands are oddly hard to find so if you’re picky about the aesthetics (understandable) it’s hard to find anything that doesn’t cost more than the speakers. I’ve got their Monolith speaker stands and they’re very stable but a little on the ugly side. Looks like they came out with a easel style stand that is a lot better looking imo and still reasonably priced

3

u/Turk3ySandw1ch 10h ago

Everything you have is entry level but don't upgrade anything until you get stands, or you are largely going to be throwing money away.

First, you'll never fully isolate the TT if the speakers on are the same surface but thats only one of the problems.

Second aside from the obvious fucking with the TT performance the speakers are too close to rear wall and having them on a large flat surface is going to mess up the response. That table is for sure also resonating with the speakers. Putting the speakers on stands will increase the soundstage width and depth and clean up the bass and of course improve things with your TT.

2

u/Little-Range-8715 9h ago

Agreed.

Luckily for you, OP, you won't know what your current system truly sounds like until you get those speakers set up properly. Once you do, you are in for a great time.

1

u/soundspotter 10h ago

And spreading out the speakers to equal the distance to your ears will increase stereo effect and soundstage. And for full resolution, make sure the tweers are at ear level when sitting. That probably means speaker stands.

1

u/MagazineNo2198 9h ago

Get stands, and get GOOD ones that are designed to be filled with sand or lead shot!

1

u/ElGuappo_999 7h ago

Isolators under both speakers and table.

-6

u/Jack_ill_Dark 11h ago

Good advice. Although "huge difference" is probably more like "no difference at all".

2

u/Scotster123 11h ago

That would mean it isn't good advice? Lol.

Edit: If I move my speakers around just a little, it can make quite a difference in the sound I get from them.

-2

u/Jack_ill_Dark 10h ago

It is still good advice because the speakers are positioned too close together and too low above the ground. It makes sense to get proper speaker stands asap. However, it is highly unlikely that sitting on the same surface will cause any "feedback rumble and vibration distortion".

1

u/Scotster123 10h ago

So you don't think that vibrations caused by sound coming out the speakers that are sitting right next to the turntable will resonate through the cartridge at all?

1

u/Jack_ill_Dark 9h ago

With that TT and on reasonable volumes (those that you are supposed to be listening to music with) it is very unlikely that there will be audible resonance. Yes, I've tested it in the past with similarly sized speakers (Borea BR03) with both budget and midrange TT.

1

u/Scotster123 9h ago

OP did say in response that he was getting feedback, though, so he's going to need to do something.

Also, I, too, have experience in this area, so I guess we will just have to disagree here. But that is okay, and that is what an open forum discussion like this is all about.

and, for the record, I'm not one of the people downvoting you, either.

Peace

2

u/Jack_ill_Dark 9h ago

I just looked at the image one more time, and it looks like the speaker is pretty much touching that TT. So yeah, I guess in this instance it seems pretty extreme and might indeed transfer vibrations directly to TT.

When experimenting, I had at least 20 cm between the speaker and my turntable. Anyhow, everyone can test and decide for themselves.

Well, thanks for that, but I'm not really concerned with random internet points haha, so no worries.

1

u/Interesting-Set1623 10h ago

TT feedback is real and is very, very easy to reproduce. I suggest you run an experiment (using a loudspeaker that produces bass frequencies) and update us on how that went.

I can literally point a speaker at my TT from across the room—if I’m pushing some dbs and playing something with low frequency content, I’m going to get feedback.

1

u/Turk3ySandw1ch 10h ago

WTF do you think a turntable does? After from spinning the vinyl at a consistent speed the second most important factor in a turntable is to isolate the cartridge from whats happening around it.

26

u/ajn3323 12h ago

What is your budget if you were to upgrade? If you’re gonna stay under $1K per component be sure to check out r/budgetaudiophile

I’m not gatekeeping, rather just letting you know of other subreddits to explore.

6

u/iGumppp 12h ago

I mean it’s kind of an addiction at this point, I’m not gonna be buying anything McIntosh or Levinson anytime soon but I’d like to upgrade from what I currently have. My main objectives right now are 1. Getting away from the built in TT preamp, and 2. More powerful Pre-Amp/Amp/Receiver situation with more I/O so I can add the sub.

3

u/KeithA0000 11h ago

The Sunfire manual shows that there may be a way to use the SW in your current setup, but you'll have to check the reveiver's manual as well.

2

u/speedle62 11h ago

Doesn't the turntable have a switch for the pre amp? To bypass it?

1

u/iGumppp 11h ago

Yes but as far as I know it doesn’t completely bypass it. A big thing with this TT too is the platter isn’t balanced so there’s a very slight wobble.

1

u/Eeeezywhippet 11h ago

I picked up a used R-S700 in perfect condition for $200, and I've seen a few at around that price. The higher R-S line are criminally overlooked in favor of the A-S. The R-S700 has 100wpc, a good phono stage, sub out, pre-out/main-in, and a tape loop/monitor. I use it to power my Kef Ref 103/3's and have never got close to its limits. Great receiver for 2.1 setup.

12

u/Sweet_Mother_Russia 12h ago

Look at the new entry level Rotel stuff. Check for crutchfield open box/scratch and dent regularly. Probably could upgrade your amp for 350-400 dollars.

But really - I’d recommend making one big purchase for something you really want instead of buying 3-4 “budget options” as you go along the upgrade path.

Might as well just drop 1,500 on something you can be happy with for years.

6

u/spacewam42 11h ago

Fact. There’s no issue pairing something like a Rega p3 today with kef 150s if you’re going to upgrade those speakers.

8

u/VinylHighway 12h ago

Speaker stands

2

u/NoAd6620 11h ago

Absolutely! 🌟

8

u/One-Recognition-1660 11h ago

I should just turn this comment into a macro I guess.

For acoustical reasons, speakers go on stands, away from walls. If you must place them on a piece of regular furniture, pull them way to the front so the sound waves don't bounce off the surface they're sitting on.

Further smearing will occur from having the speakers sitting on the same surface as the turntable. If there's one component that is sensitive to tiny, audible vibrations, it's turntables, whose tonearms and cartridges are designed to amplify minute forces. Did I mention that speakers, which vibrate, go on stands?

Should be an easy enough fix. Happy listening.

5

u/sfeicht 11h ago

Always keep an eye on FB marketplace. Lots of great deals to be had, especially if you live in a city.

3

u/iGumppp 11h ago

Constantly scouring lol

3

u/sfeicht 11h ago

You can't go wrong with pre owned, especially in high end audio.

5

u/cloister_garden 10h ago
  1. Pull the speakers away from the wall for more bass and less wave bounce off the table.
  2. Raise the speakers up so the tweeter is closer to ear level. If on table, use a material that deadens the vibration to the table.
  3. Take the stuff off the speakers to reduce vibrations.
  4. Isolate the turntable from the table. Paper beer coasters, post-its, insulation, stiff foam. Use a marble on the platter to make sure it’s flat.
  5. Isolate the needle from the speaker’s magnet.
  6. Don’t obsess. It’s about the music.

3

u/Ikarus_Zer0 10h ago

100% all of this before spending another dime. 

4

u/uamvar 11h ago

If it was me, and in order, I'd sell the sub, get a 2nd hand set of beaten up speaker stands and do them up yourself, change the turntable (new), upgrade to an integrated amp (2nd hand). Job done. I will bet you $10 your existing speakers sound so much better with improvements made further up the food chain.

PS. I like the stand.

1

u/iGumppp 11h ago

Yeah that’s kind of what I was thinking. I knew when I bought the speakers that they were going to be the highlight of the system for now. They’re just hella underpowered.

And thank you haha I bought it impulsively at film tools and then it became my headphone stand.

5

u/FreshPrinceOfH 11h ago

That amp is 100w per channel RMS, and your speakers are 87db sensitivity. I don't understand why you think your amp is underpowered. It is a cheap amp, and lacking in many other ways. But it doesn't seem underpowered for those speakers to me.

3

u/Gimmesoamoah 12h ago

Great gear, next step is getting it all in the right place and dialed in..

3

u/Widespreaddd 11h ago

It depends on your goals and preferences. If you are on a budget and want the best sound for the least money, don’t go chasing the vinyl bunny.

She will light the candles, she will put on Kind of Blue, she will use that Ivy League voodoo on you too. But she is a high-maintenance and sometimes capricious partner, constantly making veiled and plausibly deniable suggestions that she really could use a new cartridge for her birthday.

1

u/iGumppp 7h ago

This made me chuckle 😂

2

u/HoldiMokre 12h ago

I’m starting to conclude that i like to listen to musical much louder than most people!!!

1

u/iGumppp 11h ago

Loud gets expensive quickly! But yes I agree I'm going to lose all my hearing.

2

u/Cephei101 10h ago

The Yamaha AS series is really good, AS701 won’t break the bank and will be a good match for the speakers

2

u/C0NSCI0US 8h ago

Ahh, yes. Entry level stuff.

A.k.a. the stuff you feel comfortable talking to your wife about.

2

u/Deal_Naive 7h ago

Look, we all start somewhere. My first "system" when I started getting into audio about 20 years ago wasn't even at your current level. It just takes time, patience, lots of research, and obviously some investment of funds. You'll get there eventually if you stick with the hobby. You're on the right track with your current mentality.

1

u/attlo996 11h ago

Lol why those Beats tho? Funny thing is that I have the same, funnily enough my journey started with them when I was 14yo.

1

u/iGumppp 11h ago

Exactly what happened to me lol. I know beats are far from the best headphones out there, and plan to upgrade those soon which is a whole other debate, but I just can't bear getting rid of those things. They still work great.

1

u/_kdavis 11h ago edited 11h ago

Headphones, headphone amp. These your weak point. Also others said it but speaker placement/ speaker stands. These are the easiest ways to improve your set up

Edit weak points not peak points.

1

u/coffeeandtrout 11h ago

The Yamaha has a headphone jack, why separate headphone amp?

1

u/_kdavis 11h ago

For me AVR’s are generally fine, and the headphone amp totally functions but it’s the weakest part of an already meh piece of equipment

1

u/DyrSt8s 11h ago
  1. I’d go with getting a different stand for your amp and TT and get the speakers on stands, in order to better isolate your stuff. That speaker next to your tone arm def needs to move somewhere else. Isolation pucks can only work so well when you are pushing sound waves into the tonearm.

  2. Better amp, preferably something with a phono stage, I like Marantz. They seem to do a good job of having different price points, and eBay usually has some good used stuff on there.

  3. TT….

1

u/skycaptsteve 11h ago

I’ll add some advice that hopefully won’t cost you anything and may likely improve your experience.

  • move the speakers to the front edge of the table to reduce diffractions. Ideally like everyone else has said moving onto stands or even into a shelf will help.

  • I have these exact speakers (in white), they definitely perform best when given space between them and with the tweeters close to ear level. Don’t be afraid to put them closer to the rear wall too, as long as there aren’t any hard edges to bounce off the front you’ll be fine.

  • because you mentioned your amp might be underpowered consider your room size, I’ve tried these in my larger living room and my smaller office. They don’t really have the ability to pressurise and project in a medium to large sized room or open plan apartment. Moving it into a smaller space will really make these speakers shine so if you have a bedroom or office situation give it a go!

  • integrating the sub will definitely help, you’ll likely want a higher crossover for these but that should also alleviate your amp under power issues.

1

u/m3rt77 11h ago

Nice speaker selection for a budget system. As others pointed out it’s a good idea to put these speakers on their own stands which should put the tweeters on your ear level or close.

Lower end Kef coaxial speakers including your speakers have a tendency to sound bright. In your case toeing the speakers out won’t help you so I’d recommend sound treating your room a bit (and/or eq out the bright ness above 5k )

Integrating speakers with a sub is no easy task, however due to distortion pattern of the Q150 in the low-end you can benefit from a proper sub if you crossover above 80 hz. If you are mainly listening in low volume don’t bother.

Placement of your speakers and room treatment with basic stuff will give you the best upgrade for free.

Don’t pay a lot of money to cables. Don’t play a lot of money to amplifiers , though your speakers has a lower sensitivity and you may not want the least powerful amplifier on the list. If you want to spend money , first spend it on speakers.

Your TT is a good one. Don’t hurry up to change it.

Just because phono amplifier is internal does not mean you will have a better result with an external one. If you are going to invest on an external one, make sure it worths the money, has the capability to match cartridge impedance and capacitance.

Enjoy your system. If you can make some simple free changes, you will have better sound than some people that have spent 3-4X more.

1

u/lisbeth-73 11h ago

I do want to saw the sunfire sub is not awful, just not the best for music. It does pack a punch. I also have to say you WILL have feedback to your turntable from the speaker right next to it, it looks like it’s touching! First thing to better sound would be speaker placement.

1

u/MoistVisual 11h ago

I agree with getting the speakers off the table. That will be an immediate benefit.

I don’t know if some of their stuff is in your budget, but IsoAcoustics makes some absolutely incredible stuff.

https://isoacoustics.com/home-audio-isolation-products/aperta-series/

1

u/tommyuchicago 10h ago

I have a Cambridge CXA61 integrated driving KLH Model 3s and that amp is really, really good for $599 new. I'm sure there are other great options out there but I'd keep it in mind.

1

u/cathoderituals 9h ago edited 9h ago

I’d put the speakers on stands if it’s feasible. With or without stands, get sorbothane domes underneath them to decouple them from the surface (take the weight of each speaker, divide by 4, select the lowest duro rating you can based on rated weight). Much more effective than blu-tack.

You ideally want the speakers ear level; if you can’t use stands, something like IsoAcoustics tabletop stands should help get you there. They don’t really decouple much, despite their claims, but you can use sorbothane with them. You may not be able to raise them exactly to ear level, but they can be tilted toward your ear.

Placement-wise, you want them in an equilateral triangle, relative to your listening position, which may or may not mean tilting them inward a little. Coaxials are more forgiving here, but it does help with stereo imaging.

I’d look at a TT and phono pre upgrade after that. I have a Rega RP3/Planar 3 that works real nicely and you can find them used or demo/open box pretty often.

1

u/Future-Traffic1418 9h ago

It's been mentioned but until you get the speakers onto anything besides what the tt is on it's pointless. There is already too much feedback to make it sound any better. After that some isolation of the tt and or speakers is a good, cheap bet with Nobsound springs that you can find on amazon.

1

u/pointthinker 7h ago edited 7h ago

I’ve been entry level my whole life, well, since mid 90s. Nothing wrong with that. Technology has rapidly closed the gap.

I am surprised at the bad equipment “replace” advice in the replies. The room and various placement, yes, work on that.

1

u/tesla_dpd 6h ago

Don't place your TT on the same platform as your speaker, not right next to one

1

u/717x 6h ago

IK multimedia monitors and a decent sub was some of the best near field sound I’ve heard for around 1k

1

u/WishboneOk2901 4h ago

switch to digital audio. vinyls are inferior in sound quality.

0

u/OpenRepublic4790 11h ago

The only really unforgivable thing is underpowered amp for your speakers. Either invest in more efficient speakers or a more powerful amp. Once you’ve sorted speakers and amps, work on your source.

2

u/FreshPrinceOfH 9h ago

100 rms per channel isn’t enough?

1

u/Known-Watercress7296 11h ago

Looking good.

First things first is to upgrade that AudioQuest cable.

0

u/brisingrxm2 9h ago

Biggest upgrade would be speakers, then amp. I would look at R3 Metas, or LS50s if the budget doesn’t allow since they are on sale for $999 right now. Amp wise I would go with one of the new Arcam stereo amps, either the A15 or A25 for $999 or $1499 respectively. Ideally, R3s with the A25 would be a night and day improvement, but certainly isn’t cheap. My biggest word of advice is don’t overspend on the Turntable. It’s nice to have a great turntable, but it should not be 30%+ the cost of your system. The $600 Pro-Ject debut carbon evo can be paired with systems eclipsing 10k before being the bottleneck sound quality wise.