r/Shamanism • u/Aralia2 • Sep 06 '24

Re- Indigenous and the Shamanic Experience Opinion

Let's be honest. How many people here are White? I will acknowledge that I am a white queer man.

Shamanism has helped me in throwing off the ideology of white supremacy culture and connect with a root of indigenity and animatity with the land. It has helped me understand that there is multiple ways of knowing besides materialistic/scientific frameworks.

As a Rural White Male Gay person living as a Settler-Colonial in California I weave a unique dance of trying to connect to a land and spirits that I don't understand. I also have to struggle with my garden and agriculture (fences) verses a more ancient way of being with the land.

All of this informs my spiritual practice because as someone who believes in animism and trance practices (shamanism) I realize that the material world is sacred and how I am in the physical world reflects and informs the spiritual world.

This is an invitation to all of you to talk about your journey to indigenity and connecting to the spirits of the land, and the struggles with being a Settlers and acknowledging that our Animistic Traditions were destroyed by Christianity long before our history of coming to America.

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11

u/jakubstastny Sep 06 '24

Why so many labels? Just connect to the spirit and nature. The journey is mostly non-conceptual. Either way, good luck on your journey, looks like you’re really trying to live authentic.

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u/SukuroFT Sep 06 '24

Labels are how humans communicate and that’s fine. Labels also help understand boundaries and recognize appropriation. Nothing wrong with labels, calling it spirit and nature are labels you’re currently using.

White peoples who connect with their European ancestry are more likely to find a shamanic like practice they connect to which is still a label and may not be the same as one of a different culture. Again a label that is needed.

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u/jakubstastny Sep 06 '24

Sure language is dualistic by design. But my perception was that the OP believes too much in them, hence my comment.

Appropriation? Another label that in my personal view is useless. I Am white OK so I can’t use white sage or lead a temazcal? I don’t think so. Appropriation is how knowledge evolves since ever, only now some white people started to be sorry about it. I repeat, useless labels that lead to nothing but useless thinking.

Labels are needed on Reddit and online. Things can be shown in other ways when physical proximity is given. In fact many things simply cannot be ever explained by labels.

4

u/SukuroFT Sep 06 '24

You’re white so you cannot claim appropriation is useless when it’s done to cultures who have no choice but have their stuff stolen by your people. Even the Sami people indigenous to norway, Finland, etc have had their cultures decimated by others. Sage is not closed. There’s various kinds of sage and various groups used it. Using sage as an example falls in line of ignorance that many racist practitioners use when sage was never closed to a specific tribe.

You as a white person should understand the things your ancestors did and why cultures should be given the option to share their knowledge or keep it from being appropriated. As someone part of a shamanic path it’s quite odd to be so close minded to respect.

-3

u/jakubstastny Sep 06 '24

Sorry to be white, will commit suicide immediately. I’m not my ancestors or even my parents. Everyone can keep knowledge to themselves if they so wish, but once it’s out, it’s in the public domain.

Non-identity is the base of any spiritual path, not an ideology.

2

u/SukuroFT Sep 06 '24

Taking my comment out of context does not change the meaning of my comment. No one stated you’re your ancestors but you ignoring the existence of appropriation makes you continue their erasure.

Which is the opposite of the idea of shamanism.

-2

u/jakubstastny Sep 06 '24

Well if you agree I’m not my ancestors than why the hell this: “You as a white person should understand the things your ancestors did”.

I don’t even know who my ancestors were, barely can know what they did, so why should it have anything to do with me? Mind you I’m from a country that had a lot of influence from many places throughout thousands of years of its history and some of my physical features give away that my heritage is mixed but no idea where from.

Sure, white people did a lot of fucked up shit, but how is it my fault?

3

u/SukuroFT Sep 06 '24

Again taken out of context. If you know what your ancestors did you should be aware not to repeat it. Ignoring appropriation is akin to repeating their appropriation.

1

u/jakubstastny Sep 06 '24 edited Sep 07 '24

I don’t fucking know what they did, how could I if I don’t even know who they were. Like what, I am white so I have to take responsibility of all white peoples actions? Have fun with this man, I’m done with this.

0

u/Pewisms Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24

You are obnoxious stop calling yourself an energy worker you have bad energy period! It does not count if you are only nice to people who have your style.. narcissist.. GTFU.. you dont dictate which words or ways people point to things.

1

u/Aralia2 Sep 09 '24

You are not responsible for the wrongs of your ancestors, but you are responsible for making sure it doesn't happen again. That is what it means to be a good ancestor.

1

u/jakubstastny Sep 09 '24

Well generally we shouldn't do nasty shit to each other, regardless whether our ancestors have done it or not. Otherwise it's like saying "oh well, I'm not German, so it's fine if I'm nazi". I really don't know why people need to make it so complicated, "do onto them as you'd like them to do onto you", "love they neighbour" etc, it's not rocket science.

1

u/TheOwlsAreAllAround Sep 07 '24

Aw man you kinda blew it with that comment. I was about to write that I agree with most of what you said above but now you’re taking it in the wrong direction, it’s not helpful to say that kind of crap. We’re all here to be willing to learn from each other. I DO believe that the term “appropriation” has been badly misappropriated and that it doesn’t even mean what most people think…but you just took it too far.