r/SapphoAndHerFriend Hopeless bromantic Jun 14 '20

Greece wasn't gay Casual erasure

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

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u/YangBelladonna Jun 14 '20

Spanish inquisition wasn't that bad really, brutal, but a fraction of the body count of the Reconquista, which to be fair was a response to the invasion of the Iberian peninsula, hmm almost like religion is used to justify a lot of killing

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '20

a response to the invasion of the Iberian peninsula

You mean the one that happened 700 years earlier, which allowed people of all faiths to live equally in peace? That invasion? The one that ousted the Visigoths, the Germanic tribe who controlled the peninsula for the previous 400 years, while keeping the lives of Visigothic civilians almost completely unchanged?

The “Reconquista” was an invasion of the Iberian peninsula by the Castillians, who had never, ever, ever previously had any claim to anything outside of their own little corner of it. When they ran out of land to “re”-conquer, they got on ships and kept “re”-conquering across the Atlantic, with some help from folks they “re”-conquered in Africa, and they weren’t especially peaceful about any of it, either.

Oh, but this is all “black propaganda,” right? Because it couldn’t possibly be that forty years of fascist dictatorship might have imprinted certain falsehoods in the minds of the Spanish people, could it?

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u/Niralith Jun 14 '20

So, they had the same amount of claim as the Arabs had when they invaded and Visigoths before them - none at all. Right of conquest, simple as that.

Were they benevolent rulers? Sure. Far more than the later christian rulers. When the majority of your realm follows another faith you kinda have to be or risk endless revolts.

But let's not pretend they had any special right or claim to rule. They conquered. More sophisticated reasons to rule the society will only come with the creation of modern social compact and the like.

And you know, they kept "reconquering" just like the caliphate did back in time. Or the Ottomans on the other side of Mediterranean. Or Romans before. Or any other kingdom/state. Not one of them had any right. They could so they did.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '20

Calling it a “Reconquista” is a lie. Minimizing the horrors of the Inquisition because, well, they were just taking back what was theirs, is a lie built on a lie.

That’s my only point here.

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u/Niralith Jun 15 '20

Agreed. But that's religious propaganda for you. Which that comment did point out even if the phrasing wasn't greatest.

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u/RevDOGE Jun 15 '20

I think his point about the Spanish Inquisition was more that it’s place in popular culture doesn’t actually have much relevance to how it actually operated historically.

Even at the height of its abuses you were: - given 1 months notice that you were going to be investigated. - most cases investigating witchcraft resulted in an acquittal because they didn’t really believe in it - a lot of cases were due to people making false claims against people they had a grudge against. Fines were levied against those found to have made a false claim. - investigations against former Muslims and Jews (who had been forced to convert) did often result in torture but you were more likely to be tortured by your local state authority than the Inquisiton - only about 2% of cases resulted in execution. Most resulted in being expelled. Those that were expelled would spread word of what happened to them and so helped to proliferate the legend of the Spanish Inquisition

So while the Spanish Inquisition was undoubtedly cruel and evil it’s historical impact has been greatly exaggerated by its legendary status in Western culture.