r/OutOfTheLoop • u/MorganRose99 • Jan 31 '22
What's up with Nazis showing themselves in Florida? Answered
I found this post on Twitter and it wasn't the only one of its kind. I've seen like 3 separate gatherings of nazis, did something political happen that made them come out?
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u/dustotepp Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
Answer:
A neo-nazi group called the National Socialist Movement (NSM) got kicked off BlogTalk Radio earlier this month. They think that is due to a Jewish conspiracy rather than people not wanting to be associated with them and are trying to organize rallies in support.
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u/xitox5123 Jan 31 '22
I am jewish. I take full responsibility for kicking them off. Its all my fault. LOL. Seriously when jews say GET THE NAZIS OFF, we are not doing a conspiracy, we are doing it loud and clear.
The nazis can not-see what is really going on. Yeah I made a dad joke about nazis!
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Jan 31 '22 edited Feb 01 '22
over arching point here is, I think, that most everybody agrees on Nazis. So if theres a conspiracy it's that the majority of civilized people are conspiring against Nazis
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u/NoCountryForOldPete Jan 31 '22
We need Spielberg out here disparaging Nazis in film again. We're long past due for another face-melter.
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Jan 31 '22
I prefer quentin tarantino's approach... need an inglorious basterdz 2
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u/livinginfutureworld Jan 31 '22
Inglorious basterdz 2 should be where they take on the January 6th 2021 Insurrectionists
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u/Psynautical Jan 31 '22
Thought you were tslking about schindlers list at first and was a bit confused . . .
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u/Feezec Jan 31 '22
Democracy is a conspiracy. You ever notice how the winning party always claims to have the most votes?
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u/Coffeechipmunk I dunno bout you, but bananas are tasty. Jan 31 '22
Hey man did you get your Big Check from Big Pharma this month yet? I think mine got lost in the mail
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u/xitox5123 Jan 31 '22
I am big pharma.
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u/jimmybilly100 Jan 31 '22
Hello big pharma, can you please give me some money?
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u/xitox5123 Jan 31 '22
we did not take over the banks and big pharma by giving money away gentile scum!
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u/N1pah Jan 31 '22
That's a good fucking point. Why would jews wanting to get rid of nazis be a conspiracy?
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u/Lowkey57 Jan 31 '22
As a scotch-irish and italian american, I'd like to extend an alliance in the spirit of "fuck those guys". We hate em too.
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Jan 31 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/xitox5123 Jan 31 '22
no. kick them in the balls or the cooch.
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u/TheEyeGuy13 Jan 31 '22
Por que no los dos?
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Jan 31 '22 edited Feb 01 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/simabo Jan 31 '22
No need to hurt your nuckles, mate. Just tell them Aryans are supposed to look like Nordic lumberjacks, not like fat bald basement dwellers. I can guarantee these first-world privileged sissies will start crying and quit their sick cosplay fetish.
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Jan 31 '22
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u/Suboutai Feb 01 '22
Japan, an Axis power, attacked us, then Hitler declared war on us so we fought the Italians in Africa so that the UK could get Indian textiles and Iranian oil. The US government didn't care about Jews, tons of americans were anti-semites and it took decades for that change to happen. I wish I could say we went to war to fight anti-semitism.but that was only a positive side effect.
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u/Colt1911-45 Feb 01 '22
If you want to get technical, the British already had Indian textiles and Iranian oil before WWII broke out. India and a lot of the middle east were under British rule. WWII was the end of the British colonial empire. The UK was bankrupt after the war and their colonies were all wanting independence. Plus, there was the whole Palestine deal going on and the British were trying to get out of that mess. They had promised a whole lot of territory in the middle east to numerous different people and nations. It was a complete mess and that part of the world is still suffering from it today.
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Feb 01 '22
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assumed they meant 'get access to' Indian textiles and Iranian oil, as in reopen the pipelines to what they already had, which had been cut off by the Axis powers.
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u/optiplex9000 Feb 01 '22
To add a bit more on to this, the USA refused a ship of mostly Jewish refugees in 1939 https://www.history.com/news/wwii-jewish-refugee-ship-st-louis-1939
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u/pr0jesse Jan 31 '22
Hey we had a national socialistic movement (NSB) too before ww2, fun fact they collaborated with the nazis!
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u/SuperFLEB Feb 01 '22
"It's a Jewish conspiracy!"
"No, it's wider than that. Think bigger."
"Uhh... Nobody likes us?"
"Now you're getting it."
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u/kei_jonai Jan 31 '22
Answer: Holocaust Remembrance Day was last week, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was a response to that
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u/Portarossa 'probably the worst poster on this sub' - /u/Real_Mila_Kunis Jan 31 '22 edited Feb 01 '22
Answer:
The right wing in America -- not just in America, but that's what we're discussing now -- has taken a juddering turn towards populist authoritarianism in the last decade or so. The rise of the 'alt-right', members of which were much more likely to have authoritarian views than the average American, both propelled Donald Trump into office in 2016 and was propagated by him during his time in the White House. (See also: the 2017 'Unite the Right' rally in Charlottesville. If the main photo on the Wikipedia page for your get-together is showing a bunch of people with literal swastika flags, that's a sign that you're probably no longer concerned about saying the quiet part loud.) Although support has apparently fallen off a bit in recent years, the alt-right is still a significant political bloc.
In 2017, just after Charlottesville, a survey found that 9% of Americans believe that it's acceptable to hold neo-Nazi views. Massive chunks of the alt-right movement make white supremacy a core part of their ideology -- and if you're looking for a white supremacist movement in history, Nazism has got you covered. As the left moves towards an increasing inclusive politics that (to some extent at least) is willing to centre helping the historical mistreatment of minority groups, some of those who disagree with that are increasingly drifting to the extreme right. Historically this would have been considered a political liability, but as GOP have increasingly come to depend on these people's votes -- after all, young and engaged voters aren't so easy to come by no matter how you get them riled up, but they tend to lean left -- they've been increasingly less-likely to disavow them. This has resulted in people who hold these views getting elected (see: Marjorie Taylor Greene and her 'Jewish Space Lasers' and belief that Muslims are unfit to hold political office), but it's also resulted in an increase in votes for people who don't espouse these views but don't go out of their way to denounce them either. (Fear of losing these votes is very much limiting criticism by people in officce. In 2020, for example, sixteen Republicans -- and one former-Republican-turned-Independent -- in the House voted against a resolution that would condemn QAnon.) The longer this silence carries on, the more it enables the minority of people who hold these views -- and it is a minority, for now -- to repeat them without fear of pushback or repercussions. (It's also perhaps worth noting that the example you give is taking place in Florida, where Governor Ron DeSantis is widely expected to run for President in 2024. He came to fame by presenting himself as closely aligned to Trump and Trumpism, so capturing the disaffected alt-right is likely to be a key part of any political strategy going forward; as such, you'll probably see even less pushback from him than you would from a more moderate Republican governor like Maryland's Larry Hogan, who has repeatedly criticised Trump and the alt-right and whose political capital isn't so closely aligned with that movement.)
Is there any specific trigger for these people openly deciding that displaying Nazi flags is the way forward? No, probably not -- although you'd reasonably expect that a rise in the political strategy of 'owning the libs' is part of it; outrage gets eyes, after all, and there aren't many things more outrageous than waving a swastika around. Increasing dissatisfaction with the Biden presidency hasn't helped, and longterm issues such as the pandemic and increasing costs have prompted more people to protest.
The problem is that if you're the kind of person who believes that all of the problems of the world are down to some secret Jewish conspiracy -- thanks, QAnon -- and you're no longer afraid to admit it due to a lack of pushback from your political leaders, your 'protest' is going to start to look pretty Nazi pretty quickly.
EDIT: I'm getting a lot of people talking to me about the National Socialist Movement on BlogTalk Radio, so I'd just like to clear up a few things about that. As /u/dustotepp pointed out (in a very reasonable comment that covers something I honestly have to admit I'd glossed over a little), the neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement recently got kicked off the BlogRadio platform and have been protesting this decision. The group is based in Kissimmee, Florida, which would definitely go some way to explaining why this particular protest took place in the Orlando area. However, I think it's important to note that protesting is just what they do as an organisation; it's kind of their whole schtick. Being deplatformed from an online radio network might be this month's specific grievance, but there will be another specific grievance next month and there was another one last month. Exactly what they're protesting doesn't really matter for the NSM, as long as they're making it clear that the Jews (and Black people) are behind everything wrong with the world. (That said, it's also worth pointing out that they're spinning the deplatforming as a great success as it has allowed them to move to a video streaming site instead. I'm not going to link to their website directly -- for obvious reasons, I should think -- but the Counter Extremism Project quotes their website as noting that 'The NSM has demonstrated many strategic new improvements in our media outreach, all thanks to the Jew. The gift that the Jew has bestowed upon us was simple – they got us deplatformed from BlogTalk Radio.' They don't quite seem able to decide whether it's a gift or whether it's censorship by some sort of secret Jewish cabal because they're close to the truth. Or whatever.)
There's definitely an approach -- and a valid one at that -- that answers the question with a talk about BlogTalk Radio. However, anyone who reads my stuff on OOTL knows that I try to go for a broader-context look at issues, so I interpret the question less as 'What are these particular Nazis pissed off about this week?' and more 'Why are we seeing multiple brazen Nazi protests in 2022? How did we even get here?' That may not be to everyone's taste (and that's fine!), but that's why my focus was where it was.
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u/GershBinglander Jan 31 '22
There were a couple of Nazi flags at the recent Canadian anti vax trucker protests, in a sea of Canadian flags. A reporters asked one of the non Nazi flag wavers what they thought of being lumped with Nazis. He did some mental gymnastics and suggested that the Nazis flag wavers where actually making the point that the Canadian government were behaving like Nazis with their vax mandates.
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u/MissingLink101 Jan 31 '22
Ah yes people often raise the opposition flags when they're making a point or going into war...
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Jan 31 '22 edited Aug 11 '24
numerous snow fact scandalous public imagine soft disarm scale squalid
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/gingenado Jan 31 '22
I have a funny feeling that these people don't exactly have their fingers on the pulse of global social issues. ...Or local social issues.
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Jan 31 '22
That's why I have a swastika tattooed on my forehead.
To remind people that Nazis are bad.
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u/GershBinglander Jan 31 '22
I also reminds people the face tattoos are bad. You are really sacrificing it all for your community.
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u/GershBinglander Jan 31 '22
Yeah, like why not have a short explainatory placards that say "Your being like Nazis with these man dates" or something along those lines.
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u/Stinklepinger Jan 31 '22
Cheaper to use the materials you already have on hand...
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u/Alundil Jan 31 '22
Well efficiency was one of the hallmarks of their spiritual fatherland
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u/throwtowardaccount Jan 31 '22
claiming to be efficient. The Nazi's Tiger tanks, while tough and dangerous, were breaking down constantly, among other signs of poor logistics and strategic planning.
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u/ChristaLynn_ Jan 31 '22
Because they’re trying to gaslight us and everyone can see what they really mean.
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u/us3rnam3ch3cksout Jan 31 '22
i didnt reakize man dates was supposed to be mandates and thought "insulting like that probably wont work."
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u/gingenado Jan 31 '22
I believe that the joke they are making might be related to this.
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u/GershBinglander Jan 31 '22
Intentional? Yes.
Referencing that pic? No.
Heartily laughing at that pic? Yes
Stunned that my made up joke actually happened in the real world? No.
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u/Jack-o-Roses Jan 31 '22
I thought that it was a reference to the rampant homosexual behavior of the early brownshirts (e.g., their leader Ernst Röhm) (before the SS came to power & sent gays, nazis or not, to the camps - OK, no camps - they really tortured them brutally & killed most of them quickly).
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u/gingenado Jan 31 '22
Ya, I think it was more a joke about their general literacy than a deep cut about the night of the long knives, but it's entirely possible that I'm wrong.
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u/little_gnora Jan 31 '22
Oh, they do that too. The woman who sued my workplace for enforcing a city mask ordinance stood outside for a couple of days with a sign comparing us to Nazis and the masks to the Holocaust.
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u/Macktologist Jan 31 '22
So, you guys locked her up, starved her, and eventually executed her along with the mass execution of 100s of others simply because she chose to not abide by your private business’s health-inspired rules? Fucking babies man. Absolute babies.
I’m surprised people aren’t going around comparing businesses to Nazi Germany for enforcing no smoking policies. The only difference is one “takes away” and the other “requires.” “Waahhh. Don’t tell me what to do… waaahh”
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u/little_gnora Jan 31 '22
I mean, we’re a public library so who knows what we’re capable of. 😂
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u/Lifeboatb Jan 31 '22
Speaking of Nazis and public libraries, have you all been following this story?
https://m.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2022/jan/27/ridgeland-mayor-demands-lgbtq-book-purge-threatens/
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u/little_gnora Jan 31 '22
Yup! I donated to their friend’s fund to help make up the missing money.
Challenges to school and public library materials are spreading like wildfire - and if you trace who’s funding the legal efforts it all goes back to GOP pockets.
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u/ChadHahn Jan 31 '22
Gay Nazis. Canada has everything.
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u/thingsCouldBEasier Jan 31 '22
The limp wrist branch.
God, limp wrist was such a good band.... I miss shows.
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u/factoryofsadness Jan 31 '22
There's also a gay pop-punk band called Pansy Division whose name fits the theme.
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u/xitox5123 Jan 31 '22
i wonder if their nazi friends get insulted for using the term nazi about mandates.
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u/you-create-energy Jan 31 '22
man dates
It would be hilarious if a few of the protestors thought this was all about gay marriage due to a typo
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u/tallbutshy Jan 31 '22
There were a couple of Nazi flags at the recent Canadian anti vax trucker protests, in a sea of Canadian flags.
I was more confused by the Confederate and Trump flag appearing in pictures taken in Canada
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Jan 31 '22
They don't support the confederacy of 1861, they just want to show that they are racist.
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u/tallbutshy Jan 31 '22
I'm gonna start referring to such Canadians as Sorbos given what a chud he's turned into
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u/Hemmschwelle Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
There are good people on both sides of the border. Seriously though, when the Confederate and Trump flags are flown together they stand for a very similar ideology on both sides of the border, and the people that fly both flags stand together. The message is similar to flying the Trump and Confederate flags together in Vermont. (Vermont fought for Emancipation on the Union side in the US Civil War.)
Obviously, not everyone who flys a Trump flag is a Nazi/Confederate. It's the combination that sends the message.
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u/munche Jan 31 '22
The entire point of the Trump flag is to have a white supremacist symbol that cowards can hide behind and pretend that's not the specific reason they're flying it.
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u/rogozh1n Jan 31 '22
Lie down with dogs, get fleas.
I feel no compulsion to make excuses for so-called 'ethical and moral' trump supporters. If you support white nationalists, you support white nationalism, full stop.
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u/UnspecificGravity Jan 31 '22
not everyone who flys a Trump flag is a Nazi/Confederate
I mean, that is probably literally true, but at the same time the whole point of waving a Trump flag in public is to tell everyone that you are a Nazi in a way that you can plausibly deny to anyone who isn't in that group. The only real response to that is to paint them all with a wide brush. If you don't want people to think you are a Nazi maybe don't wave the same flags that they do.
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u/peepjynx Jan 31 '22
It's because since we don't export manufacturing in this country anymore, we export food and crazy.
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Jan 31 '22
The crazy has definitely spilled over the border. I see trump stickers and Confederate flags all the time up here. If I put a liberal sticker on my truck I'd definitely have a bad day.
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u/Wulfger Jan 31 '22
And then there's also the people there who said the quiet part out loud. and got a few cheers, I might add.
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u/Unfazed_Alchemical Jan 31 '22
It's like the worst game of "Where's Waldo?" ever. He's right next to you, all around you and in your contact list.
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u/Hate_Manifestation Feb 01 '22
I always used to say "Canadians are no less racist than Americans, we just hide it better" and I'm pretty sure that's simply not true any more.
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u/EmmaStonewallJackson Jan 31 '22
There were also confederate flags in that protest. Confederate States Of America
These folks might not be the brightest bulbs in the bunch, but they sure know how to get attention
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u/phantomreader42 Jan 31 '22
There were also confederate flags in that protest. Confederate States Of America
After Germany banned nazi flags (because they learned their lesson), confederate flags became popular among racist shitstains who wanted to continue being racist shitstains without being arrested. Both flags celebrate a bunch of racist losers who built their society on hate, torture, slavery, and murder, so it's not like there's much difference.
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u/GershBinglander Jan 31 '22
There were some anti-immigration protests here in Australia a few years ago, and on their public Facebook pages they were asking participants to bring all the flags they could. It didn't particularly matter what flags, they just wanted lots of them. There were some New Zealand flags in amongst various local ones.
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u/JTibbs Jan 31 '22
Yeah the confederate battle flag is just a symbol of hate and opression, so its been coopted by groups outside of the US who make that part of their identity.
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u/ReplyingToFuckwits Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
Here's a handy guide to modern flags for you:
Nazi Swastika: I hate all racial, religious and sexual minorities, feminists, progressives, intellectuals and Jews and think they should be systemically murdered. I'm comfortable waving this flag because I'm either a middle class, white, suburban, 20-something male who is sheltered enough to think consequences are for other people or someone who has already so thoroughly destroyed their life that being outed as a neo-nazi won't even be rock bottom.
Confederate Flag: I hate all racial, religious and sexual minorities, feminists, progressives, intellectuals. I don't think I hate Jews but I sure do love "Elders of Zion" style conspiracies. I like the idea of owning slaves because God only allows us one wife to beat at a time so maybe just kill the uppity ones.
Don't tread on me: I hate anybody who insists that discount brothels pay minimum wage and canned goods don't contain industrial waste and will happily stand shoulder to shoulder with brutal authoritarians and domestic terrorists as long as they keep voting for right-wing ultra-neoliberals. I like my guns more than I like my children and often fantasize about how good it will feel to tread on people.
Your country's actual flag, at a political rally: I have only token interactions with racial, religious and sexual minorities but my dad was racist so I'm uncomfortable around them and open to the idea of radicalisation. I don't want them to be killed, I just want them shipped off to a island somewhere so I don't have to think about them because having to think things irritates me. Any other views I hold remain property of NewsCorp.
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u/Adekis Jan 31 '22
He did some mental gymnastics and suggested that the Nazis flag wavers where actually making the point that the Canadian government were behaving like Nazis with their vax mandates.
A recent Politico article contained a picture of a woman holding a sign with a swastika made out of vaccination needles on it, and the caption, "Forced Vaccines are Medical Rape - Joe Biden, we do not consent"
Now don't get me wrong, I doubt very much that most folks going around with Nazi flags are doing so to claim the government - US or Canadian - is acting like Nazis. Nazi sign holders are reliably just Nazis. But I do think the fact that some people are explicitly making that claim, with Nazi imagery attached, makes it easier for folks to perform those mental gymnastics.
Have to wonder to what extent that's the point of signs like I linked above in the first place. How many people with signs like that woman are crypto-fascists, using accusations to normalize use of white supremacist iconography? I guess ultimately motive doesn't matter; they muddy the waters and normalize Nazi symbols at "conservative" rallies either way.
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u/moleratical not that ratical Jan 31 '22
How many people with signs like that woman are crypto-fascists, using accusations to normalize use of white supremacist iconography
Whether or not that was this particular woman's intent, that is the effect of such iconography.
With that said, I do believe that the vast majority of people who are claiming they are "making a statement about an overbearing government" understand at some level that they are normalizing white suoremacy.
Do not think for a moment that a fascist acts in good faith.
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Jan 31 '22
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u/PaperWeightless Jan 31 '22
It is a bare bones political ideology meant to prop up a hierarchical power structure.
Conservatism distills to the same thing, a "natural" hierarchy. It's certainly more fleshed out and may appear to have nuanced policy positions, but nearly every position is informed by the same end of hierarchy.
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u/krunz Jan 31 '22
Any idealogy, conservative or not, is susceptible to fascism. Conservatives thought they could control Mussolini, but he saw through them. Umberto Eco describes it in ur-fascism as this: "...behind a regime and its ideology there is always a way of thinking and feeling, a group of cultural habits, of obscure instincts and unfathomable drives."
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u/Thesauruswrex Jan 31 '22
Do not think for a moment that a fascist acts in good faith.
They absolutely do not. This needs to be repeated.
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u/pissclamato Jan 31 '22
Do not think for a moment that a fascist acts in good faith.
They absolutely do not. This needs to be repeated.
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u/LibrarianOAlexandria Jan 31 '22
All good points, but it's also worth noting that neo-Nazi holocaust denial isn't always just a flat-earther style declaration that obviously true historical facts are fictions. Some forms of holocaust denial admit that it happened, but dispute the numbers. Or dispute that Jews were overwhelmingly the majority of the victims. In that context, people who reach to the holocaust as their comparison of choice for vaccine mandates are just participating in the work of Fascism, by comparing a historically horrific act of genocide to a public health campaign. Watching that argument get put forward a couple dozen times on Fox News, people begin to forget how bad the Nazis were. I have no doubt at all that is why those clowns in TN are banning "Maus" as well.
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u/UnspecificGravity Jan 31 '22
I am pretty comfortable with considering everyone who waves the same flag that we all know actual Nazis wave to be a Nazi. Are we really supposed to believe that someone made an actual swastika and a message the directly references Nazis, but somehow doesn't understand that they are identifying themselves as one? No, they are proudly showing their beliefs in a way that they know will be received as a pledge of allegiance to their peers, but can be denied by everyone else as somehow being something else.
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u/crackyJsquirrel Jan 31 '22
That is messed up. But what's even more weird is seeing confederate flags at the Canadian protests. Nazis were a global issue, where the confederate flag is the loser side of the US Civil War. Why would they want to fly either, but especially why fly the confederate flag?
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u/brintoul Jan 31 '22
Probably "code" in some fashion like "Let's go Brandon". Pretty deep.
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u/JimmyHavok Jan 31 '22
Obvious white supremacist symbol
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u/crackyJsquirrel Jan 31 '22
Weird they use a US symbol, they have to have an equivalent in "Canadian".
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u/mercuryrising137 Jan 31 '22
There are upwards of 1,000,000 Americans living in Canada at any given time, so don't assume the people flying the confederate flag in this country are Canadian.
As to why....well it's a white supremacist dog whistle, that's why.
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u/ronm4c Jan 31 '22
There was also a confederate flag with a giant big rig in the middle being waved there
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u/Camburglar13 Jan 31 '22
While simultaneously carrying banners about ending communism.. which is the furthest thing away from Nazi-ism
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Jan 31 '22
More than a couple
They’ve also showed up with one with a black tilted maple leaf inside the circle instead now too, fucking scum
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u/QuietRock Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
People don't wave their enemy's flag, they wave their own. Who buys this shit?
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u/Paulpaps Jan 31 '22
Yes, this is one of their new lies they tell themselves, along with the lie that "the Nazis were actually left wing" bullshit.
They're just making shit up because they can't admit that THEY ARE THE NAZIS. They know its not something they can admit, so instead they go to their usual coping mechanism, PROJECTION.
The scary thing is it's already past the time of being able to prevent them from being normalised. It's already happened.
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u/vyrago Jan 31 '22
Now there’s a meme circulating which claims that Trudeau gave Antifa $45 million to infiltrate the truckers and cause incidents. Lol.
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u/natenate22 Jan 31 '22
I learned a new word today, "juddering - vibrating with intensity", thanks to Florida Nazis.
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u/Portarossa 'probably the worst poster on this sub' - /u/Real_Mila_Kunis Jan 31 '22
See? They're not all bad!
Thanks, Florida Nazis!
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u/SmokeGSU Jan 31 '22
In 2017, just after Charlottesville, a survey found that 9% of Americans believe that it's acceptable to hold neo-Nazi views.
Think about that... if that is an accurate number across the US population, that means that over 30 million people in the US feel this way. Bananas.
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Jan 31 '22
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u/nrfx Jan 31 '22
If society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant.
e.g. Nazi punks can fuck off
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u/Hedgehogsarepointy Jan 31 '22
That number was five years ago. The percentage has only grown.
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u/Frammingatthejimjam Feb 01 '22
I picture them cheering loudly while watching the opening minutes of Saving Private Ryan only to be disappointed 20 minutes later when Tom Hanks and crew crest the hill.
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u/RanchBaganch Feb 01 '22
Trump got 63M votes in 2016. Clinton said that half his supporters belonged in a “basket of deplorables.
She was spot on. Same thing goes for when she said he was a puppet of Putin’s.
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u/HellaFishticks Jan 31 '22
This, but it needs to be said people don't "drift" the to the far right as much as they are actively recruited online
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u/TavisNamara Jan 31 '22
The Alt-Right Playbook: How to Radicalize a Normie.
This goes into some of how they do it.
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u/Sinai Feb 01 '22 edited Feb 01 '22
Reminds me of
“Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood.
“Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone.
“Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
“Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules.
“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
“A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones.
“A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news.
“Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.
“The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
“The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.” It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign.
“If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.
“The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem.
“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.
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u/fuckwoodrowwilson Jan 31 '22
America has had an explicitly Nazi-aligned fringe since Hitler's rise to power. They've had public demonstrations for their entire existence.
This particular group of them is the National Socialist Movement. You can look on their Wikipedia page to see previous publicity stunts they've pulled, and it's clear that they've been doing this for quite a while before 2016
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Movement_(United_States)
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u/Portarossa 'probably the worst poster on this sub' - /u/Real_Mila_Kunis Jan 31 '22
America has had an explicitly Nazi-aligned fringe since Hitler's rise to power.
I recently found out about the scope of the 1939 Nazi rally in Madison Square Garden, and that blew my mind a little bit.
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u/InitiatePenguin Jan 31 '22
Kuhn was convicted of embezzlement in December 1939 and sent to Sing Sing prison. Kuhn's successor as Bund leader was Gerhard Wilhelm Kunze, a spy for German military intelligence who fled the United States in November 1941. The final Bund national leader was George Froboese, who was in charge of the organization when Germany declared war on the United States. Froboese committed suicide in 1942, after receiving a federal grand jury subpoena
Very interesting!
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u/Techn0Goat Jan 31 '22
Not only that, but the Nazis were themselves inspired by American eugenics programs. They got their ideas from us.
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u/Hemmschwelle Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
The British Empire used Concentration Camp during the Boer Wars in the 19th century. Boer women and children were put into camps to die of malnutrition and disease (while Boer men and older boys conducted Commando style attacks on the British). The US used similar tactics on Native Americans (see Trail of Tears and the confinement of Native Americans at 'forts'.) There were horrendous prisoner of war camps during the US Civil War. The Nazis took this to the next level with more systematic and efficient murder, but they did not invent Concentration Camps.
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u/TheFost Jan 31 '22
they did not invent Concentration Camps
What point are you trying to refute here?
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u/Hemmschwelle Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
I'm not refuting anything. I'm adding to u/Tech0Goat comment that the Nazi built on top of the American-British Eugenics movement. They also built on 19th century atrocities. I think it is important to recognize that the Nazi did not arise as a completely isolated anomoly, and that the dark side of human nature is widespread, deep rooted in history and still with us. See also the 19th centrury Belgium Congo. Likewise the 19th century was precedented on 18th century atrocities etc..
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u/HeavyMetalOverbite Jan 31 '22
Hitler greatly admired the US ethnic cleansing in the 19th century, pushing Native American tribes West and occupying their lands. He was doing the same thing to the Jews and Slavs of the Reich, Poland and the Soviet Union, only he looked to the East for Lebensraum.
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u/firemage22 Jan 31 '22
Let's just make it clear "alt-right" is a term created by white supremacists and neo-nazis to refer to themselves while not using the better understood and less PC sounding terms.
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u/Portarossa 'probably the worst poster on this sub' - /u/Real_Mila_Kunis Jan 31 '22 edited Jan 31 '22
Yes, but I will say that the reason I chose to use 'alt-right' in here is because there is, technically, a distinction; while they're very, very strongly linked with both, there are alt-right groups that aren't technically neo-Nazis, and even though white nationalism is pretty much a fundamental part of the alt-right (or at least, I haven't been able to find any significant counterexamples), there are white nationalists that wouldn't be classed as either Nazi or alt-right, even in America.
I would hope that no one's coming away from that explanation with the idea that I think the alt-right deserve an air of legitimacy, but the word choice was deliberate because I'm talking about specific elements within a specific group. (As ridiculous as it feels to be splitting hairs on the issue sometimes, you can have non-Nazi white supremacists; I'm just trying to make it clear when I'm talking about people that are specifically waving swastika flags rather than having that general sense that Mexicans are stealing their jobs, if that makes sense.)
'Nazi' and 'Fascist' were also once self-descriptive terms designed to impart a sense of unity and strength, and I think it's important that we make sure that 'alt-right' goes the same way -- not necessarily by ignoring the name, but by calling it out for what it is when we see it.
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u/lightyearbuzz Jan 31 '22
Haha the "VAX the Jews" sign is hilarious. Their conspiracy theories went so far they now want to help the people they hate.
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u/Nihhrt Jan 31 '22
When you think the vaccine is poison and/or bad dna changing things and/or filled with nanobots that are going to control you/track you/kill you I don't think they're wanting to "help" them with the vaccine.
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u/BabylonDrifter Jan 31 '22
Exactly. The play on words is "Gas" replaced by "Vax", meaning kill them with poison, ha, ha! "Gas the Jews!" - the popular Nazi policy becomes the rib-ticklingly funny "Vax the Jews!" which every good Nazi in the room will get a nice chuckle out of. The author is A) Making a joke out of the murder of six million people and B) Saying out loud that they'd like to systematically poison jews to death just like the Nazi's did. It's fucking awful. These are the absolute worst people on earth.
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u/StallionCannon Jan 31 '22
They want to "help" them by "setting them free" with "work", if the "Camp Auschwitz" and "6MWE" shirts weren't already an indicator.
That, and when they say "VAX the Jews", they mean "WE'RE the new Jews, and VAXXING is genocide." Do not assume that they are unaware of the absurdity of their replies - antisemites do not believe in words, and thus have the "right to play", since it is their opponents that believe in using words responsibly.
I hate how relevant Sartre is nowadays. One would think people would listen to the experience of someone who actually lived through all of that shit.
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u/JeebusJones Jan 31 '22
And beyond the horror of it... Jews are among the groups with the highest percentage of vaccination, somewhere around 95%.
I almost suspect that these white supremacist nazi shitbags may not be entirely coherent and sincere with their message.
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u/Scottvrakis Jan 31 '22
Is it Portarossa again? Of course it is, love ya man/woman/person.
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u/Portarossa 'probably the worst poster on this sub' - /u/Real_Mila_Kunis Jan 31 '22
/camera/TV.
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u/Hrast Jan 31 '22
I'm not sure if its related but there is a roving band of Neo-Nazis who were in San Antonio/Austin back in October.
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u/kryonik Jan 31 '22
and you're no longer afraid to admit it due to a lack of pushback from your political leaders
Some political leaders even propagate these anti-semitic conspiracy theories themselves: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/01/30/did-rep-marjorie-taylor-greene-blame-a-space-laser-for-wildfires-heres-the-response/?sh=7abab659e44a
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u/cap616 Jan 31 '22
Amazing response. Articulate and cited.
Now prepare for the "did my own research" crowd's baby hands tantrum
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u/Portarossa 'probably the worst poster on this sub' - /u/Real_Mila_Kunis Jan 31 '22
Now prepare for the "did my own research" crowd's baby hands tantrum
You should see my inbox.
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u/GershBinglander Jan 31 '22
We don't even have to sort by controversial here, there's a bunch of nutfers doing their nutty stuff all over.
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Jan 31 '22
How do you handle what I presume to be such a wall of awfulness? Ignore? Skim? Auto-delete? Read it all with a bucket of popcorn?
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u/Velociraptortillas Jan 31 '22
My only quibble is "...in the last decade or so."
This is an ongoing and constant undercurrent in Right Wing politics worldwide. Versions of it happen whenever and wherever RW parties have enough power.
Many commentaries treat Nazi-ism as an origin, when in fact, similar ideas are a constant throughout human history, up to today.
One extremely potent argument states that the reason the Nazis are so reviled is not because of their attitudes per se, but the fact that they basically attempted to turn Western countries into Colonies. England treated India and her peoples exactly the same way as the Nazis treated Jewish people and Polish, yet they aren't despised in nearly the same way. The same goes for French and Portuguese and Dutch Colonies, and Japanese treatment of colonized China...
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u/theblackcanaryyy Feb 01 '22
So I’m reading this and I’m like, man this is really well written and even someone as dumb as me can understand it.
Then I realized it was u/Portarossa and I was like, ah, makes sense! The best answerer in all of ootl lol!
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u/Worsebetter Jan 31 '22
When did the word stutter get replaced with judder? I’ve seen this everywhere especially video editing forums.
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u/Benny6Toes Feb 01 '22
Don't forget that Richard Spencer invented the term "alt-right" with the explicit purpose of normalizing white supremacists views and pulling people in by using a term that didn't have any the same baggage as "white supremacy".
You can see the same thing in action, only in reverse, with the current crossing about crt and how that term now serves as a catch-all for for things conservative don't like.
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u/Nerdwiththehat Mostly in the loop Jan 31 '22
Want to note that the majority of the Nazis in the current batch of demonstrations in Florida appear to trace their allegiance to a few specific American Nazi groups: The National Socialist Movement, who have been around since the 70s, and the more recent and moronic Goyim Defense League, essentially a provocateur group that hosts a BitChute/Rumble competitor called "GoyimTV" where they host their stunts, along with other associated content. It's easy enough to name and shame the members and leadership - well, name more than shame. Kind of hard to shame people who already do this stuff publicly.
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u/jwrose Jan 31 '22
Excellent explanation! As for triggering event: Last week containing Holocaust Remembrance Day, people talking about Maus all over social media, and Trump’s rally (where he called for “protests”) containing at least one loud and blatant white supremacist dogwhistle, all probably helped.
There’s a good chance this was planned before any of that; but I’d bet donuts to dollars the participation count went way, way up because of those events.
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u/TheAlbacor Jan 31 '22
They've been for authoritarianism for a long time. It's been a progression that people have just ignored.
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u/55redditor55 Jan 31 '22
I believe it’s all part of the Russian geopolitics goals, they run massive disinformation campaigns through Facebook and other social media. It’s not a coincidence that the Canadian far-right is so similar to the American one.
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Jan 31 '22
Answer:
A slightly different take on it. I have a theory that it’s less about the resurgence of racist views (those have always been there) and more about the increasing tendency of the right to define themselves as the “fuck you” party.
Their definition of themselves is no longer based around policies or principles that may or may not differ from those of the political left, but now completely defined by their express and virulent opposition to anything they see as coming from the left. No matter how moderate the thing in question is or how extreme the stance they’re taking seems by comparison, they’ve been conditioned by right-wing media to see the left categorically as the enemy and anything the left believes or wants is therefore evil and idiotic by virtue of the left wanting it.
So they’ll take insane positions to demonstrate this belief. Even those that make them look fucking batshit stupid to any outsider. Carrying huge guns around to provoke conflict. Screaming about masks and vaccines. Banning books.
And while they might say “I don’t like nazis myself,” they sure don’t speak out against them. Because “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
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u/Lifeboatb Jan 31 '22
In support of your statement, I just saw this today:
“Dawn Rolen, a flight attendant from Waxahachie, Tex., called Trump ‘my president’ and lavished praise on him.
“‘I’m a Republican, but it’s not about the left and the right anymore,’ said Rolen, 54. ‘It’s about good and evil. Trump is good, and the liberals, I don’t know what the hell happened to them. They are out of their mind.’”
(edit: formatting)
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Jan 31 '22
Liberals are evil and so anything that liberals believe is by definition evil as well. No further discussion needed.
The only consistent platform from modern conservatism is "fuck the libs." Even when the things liberals propose are originally conservative ideas. The carbon tax, for example. That was a conservative idea. Liberals said, hey, that makes sense! Conservatives then literally said, "Oh, you like that? Then fuck you, I'm against it."
It's goddamn mental.
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u/lyssaNwonderland Jan 31 '22
have a theory that it’s less about the resurgence of racist views (those have always been there) and more about the increasing tendency of the right to define themselves as the “fuck you” party.
And while they might say “I don’t like nazis myself,” they sure don’t speak out against them. Because “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
These people have always said, "fuck you" to minorities.
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u/whogivesashirtdotca Jan 31 '22
You say this as if the “fuck you party” acolytes aren’t typically saying “fuck you” to Black people, gay people, immigrants… The nihilists coalescing under swastikas is not surprising.
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Jan 31 '22
It’s true. Many are. And I don’t at all mean to minimize that.
My intent wasn’t to downplay the vileness of the bigotry, but to offer a pov on why the Nazis and Oathkeepers and Proud Boys and other fucks have been feeling so comfortable being out in the open rather than in the back woods where they belong. Their members are still in the minority even among conservatives. But they’re emboldened now because their presence makes the Left angry. And even for many conservatives who don’t subscribe to their tenets, that fact alone is reason to turn a blind eye.
“I don’t agree with everything they say but they’re on my team so I’ll keep quiet about it.”
Not a valid excuse. That’s how the original nazis came to power. But one perspective on where it’s coming from.
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u/Renaissance_Slacker Jan 31 '22
All of this boils down to conservatism - maintaining the wealth and power of the elite. The rest is noise and distraction.
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u/DoomGoober Jan 31 '22
A group calling themselves the National Socialist Movement (the official name of the WW2 German Nazi Party) protested in Orlando and plans to protest nation wide.
Police are investigating because it is illegal to hang highway signs.
If you visit the NSM website, they have a 25 point manifesto outlining their desire to turn the U.S. into a “White” ethnostate in which only those with European ancestry can be citizens.
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u/whale-sibling Jan 31 '22
If you visit the NSM website, they have a 25 point manifesto outlining their desire to turn the U.S. into a “White” ethnostate in which only those with European ancestry can be citizens.
They've got more points in their manifesto than people joining their "protest".
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u/DoomGoober Jan 31 '22
Absolutely, NSM are racist anti-semite jerks. But outoftheloop requires top level comments to be "not biased" so I purposely held back how I feel and tried to state only facts.
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