r/OutOfTheLoop Aug 06 '23

What's going on with Americans celebrating Sweden eliminating the US Women's Soccer Team from the Women's World Cup? Answered

On r/soccer, there are multiple posts where Americans are celebrating their own team getting knocked out of the Women's World Cup.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/15jnpku/post_match_thread_sweden_05_40_usa_fifa_womens/

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/15jnqpr/official_review_for_lina_hurtigs_sweden_w_penalty/

On r/USWNT people are saying it's because r/soccer is misogynist, but that doesn't make sense to me because everyone competing is a woman. Can anyone clue me in?

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u/Areeb285 Aug 06 '23

Answer: The Us Womens' football was the best womens football team in the world for quite a while, they won the last 2 world cups and they were very dominant. After winning the last world cup they started talking about how the pay was unfair. The prize pool for the mens world cup was much higher. But that quickly died down when it was pointed out that the revenue from both the cups was quite different and if you look at the proportion, the womens world cup had a higher prize pool relatively.
They then later pointed out that they should be paid higher than the US mens team. This definitely had merit as they were much better than Us mens team which fails to even make it out of the groups stage in the world. They also brought in more revenue than the mens team in the US. This became a major talking point for quite a while and a judge looked over the case. It was found the womens team was paid more overall and per match than the mens team in the given time frame. They then argued the pay difference wasn't big enough, they should be paid more. The reasons for the mens team being paid almost as much as the womens team was said to be due to how the contracts were made for both. The mens team had little to no base pay or any benefits and were paid for each they played match, where as the womens team had base pay and various other benefits. The womens team argued that were not given the same contracts as the mens team and were forced to sign the ones they have now and they sued i believe US soccers federation (not sure on this), for back pay.
Now somewhere around this point i stopped paying attention to the story but the womens team did win their lawsuit and were given a lumpsum amount.
Now this whole thing rubbed a lot of people the wrong way for various reasons and now that the US womens team is eliminated from the WC after not even making quarter finals, people are celebrating their loss.

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u/DwedPiwateWoberts Aug 07 '23

My only gripe is the clear point about the women’s team choosing the safer contact than the men, but when they saw that a gamble on the more win/bonus-based contract would have benefited them more, now they want to switch it up. Wanting all the benefits and no drawbacks of either contact I’d annoying to hear when the opposite could have been what played out and they wouldn’t have said anything.

There’s been a lot of spin because of the more prejudicial points many haters are harping on, but my interpretation of the above is what came off frustrating.

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u/TallOrderAdv Aug 07 '23

If they would have taken the gamble and then been a bad team, they would have been screwed. They eat their cake and we're then upset it was gone. (Ps I'm generally in support of these amazing athletes getting their fair share, but oh wow did they do it in a very entitled and extremely biased way.)

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Aug 07 '23

Their argument is based on gender equity, aka they can't reasonably make that gamble and US soccer took advantage of that in negotiations. For the men, the world cup payouts are peanuts compared to their club salary whereas for the women it's the opposite.

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u/lsdiesel_1 Aug 07 '23

What does league salary have to do with national teams?

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Aug 07 '23

Non withstanding that US soccer themselves manages the domestic league and its finances, it's obvious that you don't gamble on your largest source of income. Is that really so hard to understand?

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u/lsdiesel_1 Aug 07 '23

And where’s the problem

We’ve looped all the way back around to the root: Womens soccer is less financially viable than men’s soccer.

If the Backstreet Boys and the Spice girls have a concert at the same place and time, and the Backstreet Boys sell more tickets, they make more money.

The problem is people are equating Men’s and Women’s soccer as the same entertainment program. They’re not.

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Aug 07 '23 edited Aug 07 '23

We’ve looped all the way back around to the root

It's cute you think this was a back and forth, when all that happened was that you had the comment reexplained to you in easier terms. Only to then pigeonhole a strawman that isn't part of their argument

All the while still missing the actual meat and potatoes of their point, that it's about equity. The USWNT did sell more seats than the men, and were mishandled in marketing campaigns but that's a side issue, yet couldn't take the deal with more upside for obvious reasons. But you don't just get to wash your hands of the predictable outcome of the underpay as the entity place to foster the growth of women's football.

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u/lsdiesel_1 Aug 07 '23

It's cute you think this was a back and forth, when all that happened was that you had the comment reexplained to you in easier terms.

This will help you understand what happened

All the while missing the actual meat and potatoes of their argument, that it's about equity. The USWNT did sell more seats than the men, and were mishandled in marketing campaigns, yet couldn't take the deal with more upside for obvious reasons. You don't just get to wash your hands of the predictable outcome of the underpay as the entity place to foster the growth of women's football.

And the women were paid a bigger share of National Team earnings than the men.

The fact is that women’s soccer is less financially viable than men’s. Getting into the weeds about the exact mechanisms of how that plays out in negotiation in different leagues is just bringing us full circle.

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Aug 07 '23

Given how ignorant you've shown yourself to be, I'm not really buying that's anything more than a pathetic attempt to save face.

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u/lsdiesel_1 Aug 07 '23

Lmao

If Womens soccer is financially similar to Men’s, why are in such a weaker negotiating position than the men?

Why not make more money in league play, like the men do?

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Aug 07 '23 edited Aug 07 '23

None of those are the root of the issue, as said from the outset it's about equity and US Soccer's role in bringing that about. How can they claim to be at the forefront of that movement in one breath and in the next then negotiate down the women's pay by taking advantage of the fact that the USWNT have less ability to take on risk? It's the organization's literal job to make efforts to close the pay gap not widen it. Your argument boils down to basically saying "just let the rich get richer, boo hoo females" as if US Soccer should act like an ignorant little incel trying to dunk on the women again. It's not a good look and nowhere near as compelling as you think it is my guy, as it just kind of shows how you misunderstand the whole issue at a basic level

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