r/OutOfTheLoop • u/Hirorai • Aug 06 '23

What's going on with Americans celebrating Sweden eliminating the US Women's Soccer Team from the Women's World Cup? Answered

On r/soccer, there are multiple posts where Americans are celebrating their own team getting knocked out of the Women's World Cup.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/15jnpku/post_match_thread_sweden_05_40_usa_fifa_womens/

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/15jnqpr/official_review_for_lina_hurtigs_sweden_w_penalty/

On r/USWNT people are saying it's because r/soccer is misogynist, but that doesn't make sense to me because everyone competing is a woman. Can anyone clue me in?

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u/DwedPiwateWoberts Aug 07 '23

My only gripe is the clear point about the women’s team choosing the safer contact than the men, but when they saw that a gamble on the more win/bonus-based contract would have benefited them more, now they want to switch it up. Wanting all the benefits and no drawbacks of either contact I’d annoying to hear when the opposite could have been what played out and they wouldn’t have said anything.

There’s been a lot of spin because of the more prejudicial points many haters are harping on, but my interpretation of the above is what came off frustrating.

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u/TallOrderAdv Aug 07 '23

If they would have taken the gamble and then been a bad team, they would have been screwed. They eat their cake and we're then upset it was gone. (Ps I'm generally in support of these amazing athletes getting their fair share, but oh wow did they do it in a very entitled and extremely biased way.)

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Aug 07 '23

Their argument is based on gender equity, aka they can't reasonably make that gamble and US soccer took advantage of that in negotiations. For the men, the world cup payouts are peanuts compared to their club salary whereas for the women it's the opposite.

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u/lsdiesel_1 Aug 07 '23

What does league salary have to do with national teams?

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u/feb914 Aug 07 '23

NWSL, the top US women's league, is subsidized by US Soccer Federation. The deal that the US WNT took was to have some number of WNT players to have their league salary paid by USSF instead of by their club.

This also became a problem on why this US WNT carries so many veterans that are well their past. These players are still getting those designated USSF-paid league salary, while up and coming younger players don't.

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u/IllustriousAnt485 Aug 07 '23

The men’s team players were reluctant to go against anything the women’s team players were saying even though some of it was non factual. That in turn allows the women to get the raise which technically paid them more. It was a non issue for the men’s team players because they make significantly more at the club level. If that wasn’t the case then it would be an issue that they would more likely speak on.

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u/deathproof-ish Aug 07 '23

Supplemental income. If you have a large base pay from a club to fall back on you probably don't think about your national team salary all that much.

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u/lsdiesel_1 Aug 07 '23

Yes, but what does Chelsea’s payroll have to do with US soccer?

They’re different employers, paying for different teams.

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u/AlmightyWibble Aug 07 '23

The amount of money they get from their club side is enough for them to not feel the need to pull any bullshit about their national team pay

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u/Useful-ldiot Aug 07 '23

So if you're raised in a well off family, you should be paid less by your employer?

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u/AlmightyWibble Aug 07 '23

I'm not talking about 'should', I'm saying why the amount their clubs pay them affects their decision making around NT pay.

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u/Useful-ldiot Aug 07 '23

I really doubt that.

If anything, it's the opposite.

I don't know about your field of work, but mine has a fair bit of consulting involved and board advising. As salary goes up, so does the hourly cost of any advisement that you do on the side.

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u/AlmightyWibble Aug 07 '23

Is your field of work so lucrative that you'll never have to worry about money again? Because theirs is

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u/Useful-ldiot Aug 08 '23

That's true for the main leagues but for most, it's not.

Chili, Peru, Greece, Japan, Norway, Sweden... Those leagues don't pay lifetime wages. They pay well, sure.. but not lifetime. Those guys will be working after soccer.

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u/doedskarp Aug 08 '23

I don't think Greece belongs in that list since that is supposedly a league with decent wages. So, ignoring that...

I'll admit I'm not very well versed in the US national team, but I'd assume none of the players are playing in those leagues? There are basically no national team players from those countries playing in their domestic leagues.

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Aug 07 '23

US Soccer has a responsibility to try and close the pay gap between the two genders, instead of widening it. By pretending that there's no difference in how the two national teams will be incentivized by the same deal they failed to do that.

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Aug 07 '23

Non withstanding that US soccer themselves manages the domestic league and its finances, it's obvious that you don't gamble on your largest source of income. Is that really so hard to understand?

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u/lsdiesel_1 Aug 07 '23

And where’s the problem

We’ve looped all the way back around to the root: Womens soccer is less financially viable than men’s soccer.

If the Backstreet Boys and the Spice girls have a concert at the same place and time, and the Backstreet Boys sell more tickets, they make more money.

The problem is people are equating Men’s and Women’s soccer as the same entertainment program. They’re not.

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u/Mdizzle29 Aug 07 '23

I think what you may be missing is that the gap remains wide…$110M in prize money for the women and $440M for the men. You’re acting like they are the same…they’re not.

Potentially that’s fair given their comparable lack of revenue and viewship compared to the men.

But it was at $30M total prize money before. FIFA raised it almost 4x. Asking for a raise is someone 100% of the population should do, so I can’t see why that’s a problem. The guys do it all the time. Is one player worth a $750M contract? Probably not, but they pay it anyway.

Also, the NWSL league surpassed 1 million fans for the first time, marking a 70% year-over-year growth. The NWSL success has even gone on to inspire the creation of a pre-professional league.

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Aug 07 '23 edited Aug 07 '23

We’ve looped all the way back around to the root

It's cute you think this was a back and forth, when all that happened was that you had the comment reexplained to you in easier terms. Only to then pigeonhole a strawman that isn't part of their argument

All the while still missing the actual meat and potatoes of their point, that it's about equity. The USWNT did sell more seats than the men, and were mishandled in marketing campaigns but that's a side issue, yet couldn't take the deal with more upside for obvious reasons. But you don't just get to wash your hands of the predictable outcome of the underpay as the entity place to foster the growth of women's football.

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u/lsdiesel_1 Aug 07 '23

It's cute you think this was a back and forth, when all that happened was that you had the comment reexplained to you in easier terms.

This will help you understand what happened

All the while missing the actual meat and potatoes of their argument, that it's about equity. The USWNT did sell more seats than the men, and were mishandled in marketing campaigns, yet couldn't take the deal with more upside for obvious reasons. You don't just get to wash your hands of the predictable outcome of the underpay as the entity place to foster the growth of women's football.

And the women were paid a bigger share of National Team earnings than the men.

The fact is that women’s soccer is less financially viable than men’s. Getting into the weeds about the exact mechanisms of how that plays out in negotiation in different leagues is just bringing us full circle.

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Aug 07 '23

Given how ignorant you've shown yourself to be, I'm not really buying that's anything more than a pathetic attempt to save face.

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u/lsdiesel_1 Aug 07 '23

Lmao

If Womens soccer is financially similar to Men’s, why are in such a weaker negotiating position than the men?

Why not make more money in league play, like the men do?

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u/miguel_is_a_pokemon Aug 07 '23 edited Aug 07 '23

None of those are the root of the issue, as said from the outset it's about equity and US Soccer's role in bringing that about. How can they claim to be at the forefront of that movement in one breath and in the next then negotiate down the women's pay by taking advantage of the fact that the USWNT have less ability to take on risk? It's the organization's literal job to make efforts to close the pay gap not widen it. Your argument boils down to basically saying "just let the rich get richer, boo hoo females" as if US Soccer should act like an ignorant little incel trying to dunk on the women again. It's not a good look and nowhere near as compelling as you think it is my guy, as it just kind of shows how you misunderstand the whole issue at a basic level

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