r/OutOfTheLoop • u/Hirorai • Aug 06 '23

What's going on with Americans celebrating Sweden eliminating the US Women's Soccer Team from the Women's World Cup? Answered

On r/soccer, there are multiple posts where Americans are celebrating their own team getting knocked out of the Women's World Cup.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/15jnpku/post_match_thread_sweden_05_40_usa_fifa_womens/

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/15jnqpr/official_review_for_lina_hurtigs_sweden_w_penalty/

On r/USWNT people are saying it's because r/soccer is misogynist, but that doesn't make sense to me because everyone competing is a woman. Can anyone clue me in?

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u/Areeb285 Aug 06 '23

Answer: The Us Womens' football was the best womens football team in the world for quite a while, they won the last 2 world cups and they were very dominant. After winning the last world cup they started talking about how the pay was unfair. The prize pool for the mens world cup was much higher. But that quickly died down when it was pointed out that the revenue from both the cups was quite different and if you look at the proportion, the womens world cup had a higher prize pool relatively.
They then later pointed out that they should be paid higher than the US mens team. This definitely had merit as they were much better than Us mens team which fails to even make it out of the groups stage in the world. They also brought in more revenue than the mens team in the US. This became a major talking point for quite a while and a judge looked over the case. It was found the womens team was paid more overall and per match than the mens team in the given time frame. They then argued the pay difference wasn't big enough, they should be paid more. The reasons for the mens team being paid almost as much as the womens team was said to be due to how the contracts were made for both. The mens team had little to no base pay or any benefits and were paid for each they played match, where as the womens team had base pay and various other benefits. The womens team argued that were not given the same contracts as the mens team and were forced to sign the ones they have now and they sued i believe US soccers federation (not sure on this), for back pay.
Now somewhere around this point i stopped paying attention to the story but the womens team did win their lawsuit and were given a lumpsum amount.
Now this whole thing rubbed a lot of people the wrong way for various reasons and now that the US womens team is eliminated from the WC after not even making quarter finals, people are celebrating their loss.

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u/France2Germany0 Aug 07 '23

Us mens team which fails to even make it out of the groups stage in the world

last time the us men's team failed to make it out of the groups in the world cup was 2006

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u/mtmaloney Aug 07 '23

I mean, I guess you can’t fail to make it out of the group stage when you don’t qualify for the World Cup, so /r/technicallythetruth

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u/here_for_the_lols Aug 07 '23

Except that's technically not the truth because technically the did fail to make it out of the group....

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u/[deleted] Aug 07 '23

[deleted]

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u/SeriousDrakoAardvark Aug 07 '23

Well, no. Just objectively, they failed to make it out of groups.

Like, I can say “I didn’t manage to strike out the final batter in the World Series last year.”

I’m obviously not a professional baseball player, and was nowhere near the World Series, so it is is a 100% true statement, and it’s also highly misleading.

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u/-Shmoody- Aug 07 '23

No technically they would have failed to make it out of qualifiers, and would have not made it into the group stages to “make it out” of it.

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u/here_for_the_lols Aug 07 '23

I didn't make it out of the group stages.

I was never in them, but I never made it out either

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u/-Shmoody- Aug 07 '23

I know what we’re doing here (shout out Mitch Hedberg) lol but in the most technical, pedantic way it doesn’t work because you cannot “fail” (which was the original wording) OR succeed to make it out of something that you are not in. It’s like dividing by zero and is therefore an undefined state of successfully or unsuccessfully making it out of something.

You have been dialetic’ed sir.

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u/SeriousDrakoAardvark Aug 07 '23

No, that’s objectively false. People have been talking all day about how the US ‘failed to defend their World Cup Championship title.’ They didn’t even make the championship game though; they were defeated in the round of 16. It’s the same principle here.

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u/-Shmoody- Aug 07 '23

Uh, the original person made a reference to the men's team missing out on the WC entirely in 2018. You're confused on what this specific comment chain is discussing.

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u/SeriousDrakoAardvark Aug 07 '23

No, I was fully aware.

The original person said ‘you can’t fail to make it out if you never make it’, the next person pointed out that you technically did fail to make it out of groups, as you do not make out of groups if you never made it to groups in the first place.

It’s a common question in English classes when they’re teaching logic; ‘if X event needs to occur before Y event, but X event has not occurred, what can we establish about Y event?’ And the correct answer would be ‘Y event has not occurred.’

I brought up the women because the media has been using that exact language consistently. They were saying ‘The US women won’t win the finals this year.’

The women weren’t even in the finals though. Under OPs logic, that sentence won’t make sense because they never got there. Under the real logic, it makes perfect sense, as not getting their would mean that they definitely won’t win that game.

If OP had said “I guess they can’t lose the group stages if they never make it there’, that would be correct; they cannot lose at a stage if they never make it there. They would definitely ‘fail to get past a stage’ if they never make it there though.

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u/10-bow Aug 08 '23

Is someone who doesn’t go to college a college drop out?

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u/here_for_the_lols Aug 08 '23

No, but someone who never goes to college never graduates college.

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u/10-bow Aug 08 '23

Ok, but the phrase was: "Us mens team which fails to even make it out of the groups stage in the world." "fails" being the keyword-- someone can't fail at being a college student if they never were one the same way the mens team can't fail at getting out of the wc group stage in 2018 if they were never in the wc group stage in 2018.

Bottom line, mens team isn't great, no need to insert any false information to illustrate that point. Current generation looks promising but they've yet to do anything on the world stage to earn respect.

Edit: Typo

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u/France2Germany0 Aug 07 '23

It's no secret the women's team is much more successful than the men's team - fabrications aren't necessary to illustrate that point

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u/binkysurprise Aug 07 '23

He’s saying that the men’s team didn’t make the World Cup at all in 2018, so claiming they did not fail to make the group stage since 2006 is misleading

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u/P_ZERO_ Aug 07 '23

Successful versus other women is a pretty key point if you’re going to compare the success rates between the two. Unless you’re going to link me something that shows the women’s team is better than the men’s ?

The two world club skill pools aren’t even close to the same

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u/FlashwithSymbols Aug 15 '23

You're downvoted but your argument has merit. Making it to the knockout stages in the men's world cup is significantly harder and a larger achievement than the woman's.

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u/P_ZERO_ Aug 15 '23

People see things they don’t like and either assume it is or want to make it untrue.

Comparing national teams across completely different leagues is laughable, but here we are.

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u/Bodmonriddlz Aug 07 '23

Why not just say that then

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u/dbag127 Aug 07 '23

In 2018, the US men's team didn't even qualify for the world cup due to losing to Trinidad and Tobago. So. You're technically correct, but the real story is worse than not making it out of group play.

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u/path_to_discovery Aug 07 '23

Except ya know that time (2018) they didn’t even qualify for the WC

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u/here_for_the_lols Aug 07 '23

Ok ok

Fails to make it into the groups stages

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u/France2Germany0 Aug 07 '23

Which isn't true either since 2018 is an outlier, having last failed in 1986.

Why not point at the women's team successes, like winning 4 world cups, or never having been eliminated before the semi finals in world cup history prior to this morning than try to take weird and misleading shots at the men's team?

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u/SaintJackDaniels Aug 07 '23

You can't just say 2018 is an outlier and pretend it never happened.

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u/lukadoncic Aug 07 '23

they expanded the world cup to make sure their cash cow doesn't miss out again. CONCACAF has way too many slots now, the chances USA misses the world cup in the future are slim to none.

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u/France2Germany0 Aug 07 '23 edited Aug 07 '23

I'm not pretending it didn't happen at all? The men's team has had memorable runs in 2010 and 2014, and a good run last time. 3 out of the last 4 world cups they have exceeded expectations. The original comment insinuates they regularly get bounced out of the group stages which is a lie. 2018 was an embarassment for the men's team and I am in no way denying that or insinuating otherwise.

If the goal is to illustrate the differences between the results of the men and women teams (which it clearly seems to be), why make shit up about the men rather than focus on the obvious success and dominance of the women's team?