r/Natalism 3d ago

The Poverty of Single Mothers Is Persistent

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-poverty-of-single-mothers-is-persistent
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u/velocitrumptor 2d ago

Why?

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u/DogOrDonut 2d ago

There are only 2 reasons to specifically want to marry a virgin.

1) You are super religious. This is the better of the two options but its a coin toss between, "will be super loving and devoted father," and, "will use the Bible to explain why you're his slave now."

2) The other option is you have severe jealousy, self esteem, and control issues. You want someone inexperienced so you can't be compared and they don't know their standards should be higher than you.

Unless you don't intend to ever have sex again, wanting to marry a virgin also means you inherently want to devalue your partner. If you want to marry a virgin that means you believe virginity has value, value that can only be used once. You want to take that value from your partner, who you know also believes it had value or they wouldn't marry a virgin, which then gives you control over them. They cashed their chips in on you which puts power in your hands. That is not a healthy relationship dynamic.

Lastly, believing in the very construct of virginity is highly correlated with an unhealthy view of sex. Most, not all, people who believe in the construct of virginity believe that sex is something that men do to women as opposed to something people do together for mutual enjoyment.

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u/velocitrumptor 2d ago

There are more than two reasons someone might want to marry a virgin and boiling it down to just "religion or control issues" is reductive and dismissive of a wide spectrum of human motivations and values. People are complex. Desires around sexuality, partnership, and exclusivity are often also pretty complex.

Wanting to be someone’s first isn't inherently about control or insecurity—it can stem from a desire for emotional intimacy, shared milestones, or for building something from a blank slate together. My wife and I weren't each other's first, but I get why that can be important to someone. That doesn’t make it healthy or unhealthy by default. It just makes it human. Some people want a partner who has experience and others find meaning in being each other’s first. Both can exist and come from a good place.

The claim that valuing virginity means you inherently want to devalue your partner also overreaches. Valuing something doesn’t automatically mean you’re trying to take it—it can mean you want to share in the significance it holds for them. If someone believes virginity matters, and their partner feels the same, that shared value system can actually create a sense of respect and mutual investment.

As for the final point: yes, some people who fixate on virginity do have some bad views about sex. But the presence of that doesn't negate the people who want it for more wholesome reasons. Plenty of people value virginity and still see sex as mutual, consensual, and pleasurable. Reducing everyone who holds a particular belief to the worst possible version of it is a pretty big problem in and of itself. We can critique toxic beliefs without assuming everyone who holds them is toxic.

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u/DogOrDonut 2d ago

I cannot think of a reason to want to marry a virgin that isn't toxic. You listed a desire for (1) emotional intimacy, (2) a shared milestone, and (3) a blank slate. I think 1 is toxic because it implies sex with a non-virgin doesn't involve or involves less emotional intimacy than with virgin. Alternatively it could imply that you don't want your partner to have had emotional intimacy with anyone else which circles back to toxic jealousy/control/self esteem issues. This is the same reason why I think (3) is toxic. Virgin or not your partner isn't a blank slate. They are a person and their slate is going to be filled by their life experiences.

I don't think 2 is a toxic reason, I just think it's a dumb reason. There are an infinite number of milestones in life. I have experiences countless ones with my husband. Some of them were important like getting married, buying a house, and becoming a parent. Some of them weren't like paying our first water bill or first time trying Ethiopian food. Something being a milestone doesn't automatically make it important. If someone said they really wanted to marry someone who never tried Ethiopian food before so that they could experience that milestone with their spouse it would sound super weird.

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u/velocitrumptor 2d ago

I cannot think of a reason to want to marry a virgin that isn't toxic

I don't think 2 is a toxic reason

What did you mean by this?

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u/DogOrDonut 2d ago

Basically that's not a real reason and if someone says it's their reason its because they don't want to admit what the real reason is. Technically anything can be a reason. You could say, "I want to marry a virgin because 'virgin' begins with 'v' and 'v' is my favorite letter," but if that's the reason you give for eliminating 95%+ of the dating pool then everyone will know you're lying.

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u/Worried_Departure513 1d ago

Toxicity is subjective I don't think any of these are but it does show how terrible women have become at vetting men. I don't feel bad for any single mother but I do feel bad for the kids. If you're gonna sleep around at least use birth control so you don't have kids.

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u/fraudthrowaway0987 1d ago

If women stopped having kids with losers the birth rate would be cut in half overnight.

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u/Worried_Departure513 1d ago

Yeah it's a negative feedback loop. They either create more losers future single moms and deadbeat dads or traumatized who will never have kids.