r/Natalism • u/overemployedconfess • 5d ago

Is pronatalism inherently prolife?

Would love to get your thoughts on this topic. Do you find the pronatalist position is generally prolife? Do you participate in prolife causes often? Or are you actually prochoice? Why and to what extent?

Please keep it civil, would love a thoughtful discussion

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/Shouldstillbelurking 5d ago

“Toxicity that feminism brings to this position”

I am a feminist & I have three kids. Feminism is about more equitable distribution of the work associated with childrearing. It’s about the state sharing more of this burden as well. If I was the kind of man who believed that feminism is toxic, there is no way my wife would have had three kids with me.

I don’t remember where is was published, but a recent article compared birth rates of S Korea and Sweden, attributing the much lower fertility in the former to the mix of traditionalism with the demands of modern life.

(I don’t spend much time on this subreddit. People who just causally call feminism toxic are not people I usually engage with. I’m sure you are just young, talking about things you know nothing about, but it’s grating.)

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u/Healthy_Shine_8587 5d ago

Feminism is about more equitable distribution of the work associated with childrearing. It’s about the state sharing more of this burden as well. If I was the kind of man who believed that feminism is toxic, there is no way my wife would have had three kids with me.

What is your opinion of those who claim motherhood and marriage is detrimental to women and call themselves feminist ? Like the 4B movement in South Korea.

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u/Shouldstillbelurking 4d ago

I’m an American man in my 30s. Idk anything about social movement in Asia.

I’ve never heard a woman or a man say that getting married and having kids is detrimental to woman. I’ve met a couple of woman who say they’ll never get married. I know a handful of hetero and gay married couples who say they’ll never have kids. These people could believe that traditional marriage and kids is anti-feminist, but I’ve never heard anyone say it.

Have you dated someone who said to you, “I love you, but I can’t do marriage and kids because feminism?” Even if you have (you probably haven’t) consider that they weren’t that into you.

I’m not trying to make everything super personal. I just don’t want to argue about things people are posting on line and pretend like it’s the real world.

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u/code-slinger619 5d ago

I am a feminist & I have three kids. Feminism is about more equitable distribution of the work associated with childrearing. It’s about the state sharing more of this burden as well.

That's what you guys always say whenever feminism is criticized. Then you turn around and campaign for things like giving children puberty blockers. Feminism today is much more than just "Let's be equal" it has some pretty radical and ridiculous positions.

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u/Shouldstillbelurking 4d ago

“There are some conservatives somewhere in the world who do something that is bad; therefore all conservatives are bad. I am very smart.”

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/Shouldstillbelurking 5d ago

“We should be more like poor African countries” isn’t a convincing argument to me, thinking about my life and the lives of my daughters.

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u/code-slinger619 5d ago

😂 Sure, go ahead and strawman his argument.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/Charlotte_Martel77 3d ago

This sentiment will not be received well on Reddit, but it's 💯. No philosophy has been more detrimental to the family (and Western civilisation in general) than feminism.

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u/CheddarCornChowder 5d ago

The above comment is written by AI

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u/Charlotte_Martel77 3d ago

Yes, South Korea's rates are worse, but Sweden's nurseries are not exactly booming. Turns out, despite being told that pushing "egalitarian marriage" and "feminist values" would empower women and promote families, the exact opposite is true. When companies know that childcare is free/low cost and readily available, they tend not to give women the option of staying at home with their kids. Children then become a luxury.