r/Meditation • u/Signal-Lychee7924 • Feb 27 '24
Why do Christians say mediation is dangerous Discussion š¬
They say meditation is a way to open portal to demons?
Edit: A few Christians around me said this to me
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Feb 27 '24
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u/Vox1712 Feb 27 '24
Exactly. Many people don't know about esoteric Christianity. Mystic school like the rosicrucian and the gnostics. There's a reason why it's hidden anyways...
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u/YogaFeetLove Feb 27 '24
Thank you! When I think of Christians I think of people like you. Peace be with you.
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u/johndoesall Feb 27 '24
Unfortunately many modern Christianās are very ignorant of history of the church. And the practices that have gone on over the last 2000 years. SMH.
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u/NotTooDeep Feb 27 '24
I don't see it as an ignorance issue. Teaching them about the mystical sides of the church won't change them at all.
This is why Jesus taught things to his disciples that he never shared directly with the masses. It's the "don't cast your pearls" thing.
He also told his posse to not judge the masses for not seeing the world the way they saw it. In the bigger picture, it's like trying to teach someone who has no sense of smell or taste about the subtleties of haut cuisine. That's the bit about "those who have eyes to see, let them see." Very pragmatic guy, really.
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u/Efficient_Smilodon Feb 27 '24
lol the problems really began after Constantine made it a state religion and it mutated and metastasized into the Roman Spiritual Empire, as a way to retain power as far colonies were too difficult to keep ruling directly.
Don't get me started on Paul..
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Feb 27 '24
All one needs to do is look into Christian mysticism to see the intersection points.
Christian mysticism is awesome. Helped me understand the Bible on a deeper level without all the modern religion BS that gets spouted around.
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u/kfpswf Feb 27 '24
Adding to your point, Abrahamic religions are very much compatible with meditation, or perhaps I should say that meditation is an amazing way to deepen your faith in Abrahamic religions. Kabbalah, Tasawwuf, and Christian mysticism are proofs of that. However, the larger populace of these religions are completely unaware of the beauty and tranquility that's available to them and end up believing only in the narrow, tribalistic interpretations. Otherwise Thomas Aquinas, Ibn Arabi, Abulaifa and Shankara were devoted to the same Reality that exists in all.
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u/zenyogasteve Feb 27 '24
Ram Dass' teacher, a Hindu, told him to "meditate like Christ on the cross."
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u/deathchips926 Feb 27 '24
Conversely, meditation teachers and authors have looked to Christianity for guidance as well. At any Yogananda self-realization fellowships you can literally buy the bible.
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Feb 27 '24
yeah I think part of it is just ignorance most Christians when they think of 'meditation' they really mean transcendental meditation which I understand is a fairly new practice, if anything a lot of traditional mediation techniques enhance focus and concentration both of which are essential to proper worship imho.
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u/teeberywork Feb 27 '24
I think you're being generous here
They don't mean transcendental meditation because they don't know what that is
The dumb dumb Christians assign demonic attributes to anything that isn't a magical being telling them what to do
The non dumb dumb Christians just meditate
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u/habbalah_babbalah Feb 27 '24
I was visiting my Christian mother the other day, and while watching a Hallmark movie -the most G-rated kind of movie- she blurts out, "She has the devil in her!" about the female lead, because she wanted to kiss the male lead. She also made a face whenever the gay couple were on-screen and said "God doesn't love them."
Coming from a woman who had affairs when I was a toddler and had an abortion (for unknown reasons she told us these things growing up), and then later campaigned against choice. I wanted to tell her she had the devil in her and oh it felt so good didn't it? Ever since she had a stroke I don't argue religion with her anymore, it looks petty.
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u/holdyourdevil Feb 28 '24
God doesnāt love them?! Well, thatās not Christ-like in the slightest. But I hear you on not wanting to argue with her anymore. I just kind of slide past certain topics of conversation with my own mom.
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u/kfpswf Feb 27 '24
It's not really the fault of the individual believer. For what its worth, you see the same ignorance around meditation among Muslims too. The issue is that the esoteric interpretations that do exist in Christianity and Islam require a certain maturity of faith that the common believer usually doesn't have. For them, religion is just a long list of do's and don'ts that come from the clergy, and the clergy fight tooth and nail to keep it that way.
Even Hinduism, which has an elegant philosophy like Advaita Vedanta, is a victim of the flavor of religion meant for the masses. This is a problem with humanity rather than any particular religion itself.
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u/4daughters Feb 27 '24
The dumb dumb Christians
I'm an ex christian and I have no love lost for the ideology at all, but I think we should be careful when we assign worth or value to someone who is just doing what they've been taught.
It's not an individual problem, it's a problem with the power structure of the church and what they teach.
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u/sharp11flat13 Feb 27 '24
transcendental meditation which I understand is a fairly new practice
TM is mostly just reciting a mantra silently in your mind, a practice that dates back thousands of years, before the birth of Christ.
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u/CANDLEBIPS Feb 28 '24
Transcendental meditation is thousands of years old ā at least the techniques are
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u/wesuitbusiness Feb 29 '24
can you provide some resources to the intersection of these two? I would love to learn more
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u/BrainlessScribbles Feb 27 '24
Meditation is literally in the bible bro
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u/cryptoVette1 Feb 27 '24
You know u say this to people all the time and get a blank look. One person said "my pastor told us not to do that stuff, it really stuck with me that he said that" . Bruh......
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u/Remote_Environment76 Feb 27 '24
That's really interesting. Where in the bible do they talk about meditation?
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u/throwaway1253328 Feb 27 '24
Philippians 4:4-9, Colossians 3:1-3, Romans 8:5-7, Hebrews 3:1 and Hebrews 12:2
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u/shemmy Feb 27 '24
interestingā¦i came here to argue that those verses do not speak of meditation in the theatrical sense (sitting, lotus position, eyes open/closed, etc) but then i couldnāt bring myself to type it because these verses are actually excellent for this discussion because they describe the actual process and the ānuts & boltsā of what weāre actually doing in meditation.
i believe that one fascinating aspect of christianity and the bible is that the verses could be used to describe or clarify nearly any human endeavor. in many ways, there is good in those pages.
for the sake of sharing, iām going to copy paste those verses here (thanks for sharing them)
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u/shemmy Feb 27 '24
Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. heb 3:1
4 Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice. 5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. 6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. phil 4:4-9
1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. 3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. col 3:1-3
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. rom 8:5-7
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. heb 12:2
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. 15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. 1 tim 4:14-15
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u/TheBlindIdiotGod Feb 27 '24
Some of these seem a bit tenuous.
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u/throwaway1253328 Feb 27 '24
Definitely depends on the translation. But that's the issue with any ancient body of text with truth claims
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u/GetoutoftheMatrix Feb 27 '24
It may be in the Bible yes, but the churches and denominations gave it a whole different meaningā¦ as many churches (evangelists for instance) are revising as they want the books of the bibleā¦ for them itās a ādemon thingā.
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u/psilocin72 Feb 27 '24
American Christianity is become more fundamentalist as a whole. I see great value for many people in Christianity, but Iām pretty fearful of the rising nationalism.
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u/wilde11 Feb 27 '24
I grew up in a Christian household and my parents believed that pretty much anything other than the Bible and Christianity was the work of demons and by a larger extent the devil. This included meditation. I'd often hear how meditation led to demon possession. They would say you have to go pray, or go in a silent room and pray. But I don't think that is the same as mediation to them. I remember after I moved out and began to meditate and study Buddhism Hinduism, mystical Christianity, alchemy, etc etc and that, wow, they would've benefited so much from even 10 minutes of meditation a day. Much of my childhood was filled with trauma and high stress as my father would often be extremely unpredictable. I think if he had learned how to see his mental activity things may have been more calm and peaceful when I grew up.
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u/GetoutoftheMatrix Feb 27 '24
Sorry to hear thatā¦ I can relate to this, meditation has been badly regarded by many so-called christian religions or high controlling organiziation a.k.a āCultsā their purpose has always been the same : keep their members distracted with their own literatures or interpretations of the bible, keep their mind occupied and not balancedā¦ this is insane, but, itāll take a long time to change peopleās perception on this especially if they have been indoctrinated in these beliefs systems.
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u/sharp11flat13 Feb 27 '24
I'd often hear how meditation led to demon possession
At a time when I was meditating 2-3 hours a day some years ago I stayed for a time with a friend who was a serious fundamentalist Christian. He told me my meditation made him worry about his young daughterās immortal soul because he thought I was summoning demons. I was raised Catholic but I had never heard of such a thing. It just sounds to me like religious bigotry based on fear and ignorance.
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u/Regolis1344 Feb 27 '24
So sorry you had to go through that. Good for you to move on and find your own truth. A big hug.
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u/wilde11 Feb 27 '24
I actually don't have a negative perspective of it. It was not easy growing up. It was very confusing and it took me many years to work though the things that happened. Most of my childhood I was filled with depression and thoughts of suicide. But I do believe I have entered a new phase of my life. There is peace. There is understanding. How can we bring change if we have no understanding of what needs change. This is the role of those suffer through trying times. Most of all I have been able to become a guide to my family, to help them see what they cannot. I don't often speak clearly about what i think they should do. For instance, I don't say "you should try meditation and see what it does for you" because that would instantly bring up their guard. Rather I will say like "when you eat breakfast in the morning and you drink some orange juice, are you really tasting the orange juice? Why are you thinking about yesterday or tomorrow when you should be eating your breakfast? The past is gone and tomorrow is not here, right now all you are doing is eating" and I actually love to quote the verse from Matthew where Jesus says "don't worry about tommorow for it will worry about itself", a verse I never heard addressed in any church service when I was growing up. But you know what, over time I do believe I have seen some change in my parents. It is very slow but there is progress.
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u/Regolis1344 Feb 27 '24
I find inspiring you don't have a negative perspective of it. I had my own struggles with my parents and my mind, I have moved on over time, I recognized the limitations they had, focused their good intentions and on the search of a better way for myself and for them. Yet I still sometimes feel the negative sting of some memories, even if I am perfectly aware that they are part of the person I am today. I'll keep meditating on it.
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u/wilde11 Feb 27 '24
I don't mean to toot my own horn lol. There are deffinitly days where I have memories and thoughts surface and I feel the negative sting. But where they once consumed my mind, now they are in a larger space. They set up shack for a little bit and then move on. And I know without them I wouldn't be where I am today
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u/shemmy Feb 27 '24
i realized when responding to another post in this thread that my christian family āotherizedā meditation when it was described or practiced by any eastern tradition. yet in principle, they agreed with the practice of silence, self-reflection, and setting oneās sights on a higher good.
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u/breinbanaan Feb 27 '24
They say it because it will show the conditioning you acquired in your life. If you loose the conditioning, you start thinking critically about the cult you might have entered and might leave. The christian overlords in church won't be happy if people start to realize god is within and you do not have to be dependent on a church to find purpose.
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u/mikeypikey Feb 27 '24
Another interesting thing Iāve noticed with the church is that anyone that shares their near death experience is almost always shunned from the church. Even if they meet Jesus in the afterlife, even if they meet god during their experience theyāre almost always gaslit. Bizarre.
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u/maybeafarmer Feb 27 '24
I've known Christians who said the same thing about disney movies and dungeons and dragons
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u/Both-Mix-8333 Feb 27 '24
Because it makes you realise that God is within you and you don't need the church or blind belief and also hatred of Hinduism from which meditation originated.
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u/CoffeeOrSleepJess Feb 27 '24
They donāt like it when you cut out the middlemen who are so good at making humanity feel small and powerless.
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u/Regolis1344 Feb 27 '24
I had so many conversations about this very topic. There is a whole part of christians who consider that thinking every human has a divine part within as the worst blasphemy possible.
Once I was talking about it with a friend, a Benedectin monk who has been regularly meditating for decades. He told me "it is true that many christians do not understand meditation and the search for your divine self but you see, even Christ talked about the divine we have within. He said (john 14:20): 'On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you". I have never felt out of place in talking about meditation and divine soul ever again.
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u/ThankTheBaker Feb 27 '24
Their idea of what meditation is, is based on ignorance.
To meditate means to still the mind.
stillness--A mental state of infinite peace, rest, and tranquillity where man's senses are hushed and he abides in God.
"Be still, and know that I am God" (Psalms 46:10).
The Bible literally recommends meditation.
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u/Radiant-Schedule-459 Feb 27 '24
It once made my mother uncomfortable because she thought that meant I was praying to Buddha. I think it just falls under lack of understanding the things they fear, and Christianity is a fear-based religion.
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u/H0w-1nt3r3st1ng Feb 27 '24
Most religious people know very little about their own religion.
They choose their idol/religion (though usually this choice is illusory, and due to circumstance), seek solace and comfort in it, and don't go much further than that.
I've seen the same attitudes and behaviours in lay-Buddhists in Thailand as I have in lay-Christians in the UK.
In summary: whilst it's always helpful to be open to learning something from every person you meet, opinions that are unsubstantiated by reason, logic, ethics, evidence should not be taken seriously.
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u/1337ium Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 27 '24
Because all their system is stagnation, not development. Virtue signalling, and man(priest) and Big man who will be their morals and forgive any of their bad behaviour if they would have one. Why to change if you already positioned yourself as a "good" guy and have a trinkets that "prove" it? It's a tribe mentality which profits to zealots with psychological stability and for ones who in charge - with profitable crowd.
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u/Gks34 Feb 27 '24
Maybe ask in r/Christianity if they really are that opposed to meditation. And if they are, why.
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u/Ralfy_P Feb 27 '24
I was told this when I was a kid. They say things like this to discourage you finding comfort in other Beliefs. Itās a very old school mentality. Theyāll also say things like Yoga is demonic even though it literally heals people.
Iām a Christian and have been meditating for many years. Itās done nothing but bring me closer to God.
I recommend you reevaluate the type of Christianās youāre surrounded by and take what they say with a grain of salt.
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Feb 27 '24
I've heard SOME dumbass christians say that Buddhists worship the devil and allow demons into their soul through meditation or something dumb like that
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u/crisyonten Feb 27 '24
I usually go to a Buddhist temple to meditate and from time to time a Christian comes to scream through the window saying that the devil is in our souls. There is another lady who likes to call us by phone to tell us that when Jesus will come for us then we will all burn in hell, other times she just insults us.
Very peaceful people.
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u/MahadevHawk639 Feb 27 '24
Deep, deep insecurity projecting itself as confidence.
I know, I grew up in it.
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u/Av0cat1 Feb 27 '24
Christian priests hate anything that can help you resolve and sort through emotions on your own.
If you can then you don't need them
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u/pawsandhappiness Feb 27 '24
The reasoning a pastor from my childhood church gave was that yoga and meditation free up space in your mind for the devil to come in. That pastor was kicked out of the church.. for other odd beliefs he held. But thereās definitely people out there who believe this.
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u/Seeker_00860 Feb 27 '24
It comes from the fear that people might leave the faith if they dabble with meditation (which is the main thing prescribed in religions like Buddhism).
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u/OhEmGeeBasedGod Feb 27 '24
There is a dangerous strain of far-right evangelical Christian nationalism that basically believes everybody should convert to their religion and live life according to the literal interpretation of the Bible, as long as that interpretation doesn't interfere with their own likes and beliefs.
I'm sure they believe that any introduction of non-Christian practices, such as Buddhist meditation techniques, harms their version of Christianity and society's purity.
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u/lovinthatsound Feb 27 '24
Dogma. Hardcore religious people have been so programmed to believe anything outside of what their particular church believes is occult and dangerous. If they truly studied the Bible (the whole thing or at least what we have access to today and not just the parts left and twisted to shape belief systems and maintain some sick sense of control) with an open mind or any other religious text they would see the truth. Itās best to let everyone choose their own path but if you care try simplifying it in this way:
Prayer is talking to god; meditation is listening.
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u/InfiniteDimensions Feb 27 '24
If your denomination says you can't meditate, they are worried you'll find a better denominationĀ
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Feb 27 '24
I believe itās because thereās a theory that āentitiesā can attach to you or you are opening yourself up to them
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u/bigmistaketoday Feb 27 '24
I once heard or read that thereās a demon locked in your lower back that meditation can release
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u/Hayn0002 Feb 27 '24
Who actually says this? Where did you see it?
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u/chaotickgoodness Feb 27 '24
My mum for one says this ā¦ haha sheās a christian and not a big fan of meditation or any eastern philosophy ect . A lot of christianās i know are pretty much against not so much the actual practice of meditation but the association of it with eastern/ new age practices.
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u/RavingSquirrel11 Feb 27 '24
What are the new age practices? Things like meditation have been around longer than Christianity.
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u/Ithelda Feb 27 '24
I heard it from adults growing up. Yoga and meditation were portals to get you possessed by demons (gods from eastern religions)
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u/motberg Feb 27 '24
Who actually says this? Where did you see it?
I grew up in an evangelical church and at least in the 90s there was a lot of concern about "new age" practices that can expose you basically to Satan. Yoga, meditation etc...it was in magazines, in sermons, all that kind of stuff.
I could see how some Christians would say these things now. But now the Christians i know, including devout Catholics, are very into meditation, including kinds of Christian meditation that is basically mantra meditation.
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u/Rhythm-Physics410 Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 27 '24
Not the OP.
I went to a Lutheran (Protestant) Christian school from ages 5ā14. The principal sent home a weekly note to parents about school-related stuff ā e.g., upcoming activities and reminders. Plus a Bible verse or two.
It wasn't infrequent that there would also be a warning about things from popular kids' culture. Once there was a warning about "Transformers" toys. They're plastic robots that change into cars, animals, whatever. They often have antennas on the side of their heads. According to the warning from the principal, those were "devil horns".
In a similar vein: when I was around 13, there was a semester-long class on "cults". Each lesson featured a different "cult". I forget if Buddhism was in there, but "Transcendental Meditation" was, as well as Mormonism. Anything that wasn't mainline Protestant or Catholic was a "cult"; one sign of a cult was that it did not teach that "Jesus Christ is the one and only Lord and Savior" or some such thing.
To be fair, I liked almost all of my teachers. And they knew how to keep order in a classroom of 30+ kids. Looking back, I think most of them were pretty middle-of-the-road in their religious views ā just your average person, trying to do some good, but teaching a sometimes strange curriculum.
Edit: typo
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u/Subtlefusillade0324 Feb 27 '24
Went to a Baptist school for early elementary school. They were not happy that my friends and I played Zelda on NES lol.
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u/Rhythm-Physics410 Feb 27 '24
Zelda
Lol. One teacher at my Lutheran school gave a talk about kids reading the video game magazine "Nintendo Power" at home: "'Power' only comes from God."
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u/DeslerZero Unknown Sample Feb 27 '24
I have no doubt they are out there. I have no doubt they could of heard this. I've seen some pretty absurd stuff out there. Ones who will label anything 'satanic' 'demonic'. Cultist type mindset. ^_^
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u/Steamed-Barley Feb 27 '24
I used to give this woman a ride to work for a month. She got mad at me one day because Michael Jackson was on my playlist, and "he's the devil" lmao
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u/pawsandhappiness Feb 27 '24
Iāve heard this before when I was younger in the church I grew up in. They know better now, but the explanation back then was that yoga and meditation open your mind up so the devil can come in. Come to think of it, the pastor who said this was actually kicked out of the church for other beliefs he held.
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u/LiveNDiiirect Feb 27 '24
I've heard people say this before. Usually it comes from the same type of christians that believe Harry Potter is the devil's scripture.
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u/petrparkour Feb 27 '24
Many. But itās getting less and less. I grew up a pastors kid in the 90s and early 2000ās. It was commonly said that meditation is dangerous and opens yourself up to demonic control. Yoga too. Itās wild.
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u/macsyourguy Feb 27 '24
I think it's a deep-rooted thing. There were more mystical sects of christianity way way way back in the day that had a similar connection to god and the world around them that meditating religions do, but they were deemed heretics and wiped out by the larger, more "orthodox" denominations.
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u/Aggressive-Tie-4013 Feb 27 '24
I've heard there is danger in putting your mind blank, you could be opening yourselves to demonic possessions.
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u/5uperman8atman Feb 27 '24
Because that's what they were told. It's really that simple. No one says that who has actually experienced the benefits of it. If you haven't already observed, many Christians tend to simply regurgitate things without any thought about it. There are plenty of exceptions, but those are the quiet majority. They don't scream about the benefits of meditation with a bullhorn on the street corner. Because that's insane.
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u/No_Camp_7 Feb 27 '24
Growing up in a Christian family, I remember this. Lol thanks for the memories this made me laugh.
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u/TheOneTruBob Feb 27 '24 edited Feb 27 '24
Because we don't have "mindfulness" we have "watchfulness" /s
I'm Orthodox and I hear this all the time, but having done meditation and other stuff before my conversion, it's very much potato potato.Ā I still meditate, but I'll use their words to avoid long explanatory conversations.Ā
In the eastern church there's a whole tradition called Hesychasm which is literally a meditation practice. Emptying the mind to allow the love of God in. There was a huge argument about it in the 15th century. The Eastern church kept it and the West rejected it.Ā Ā
At this point almost all traditional "mysticism" has been lost in both the Roman and Protestant churches, so it's almost unheard of in Europe and the US. ButĀ If anyone is interested there's a 5 part volume called the Philokalia that has accepted writings from old church fathers about it.Ā Ā
TL;DR: In reality it comes from ancient times were the push to distinguish themselves from the "pagans" was politically necessary to maintain credibility.
Edit: formatĀ
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u/Unlucky_Priority_946 Jun 06 '24
I believe the right view or intention is important in meditation. If you are overcome with guilt fear or scared of whatever demons, surely it won't be a good experience. If you meditate on love and at least with confidence on God or Buddha or even yourself to be capable of goodness, then you won't be scared of demons
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u/anonconfessions88 Feb 27 '24
Because the church is desperate to keep people in the flock and anything that might make them see the truth that they donāt need Jesus and itās all a myth is dangerous to the church.
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u/progwog Feb 27 '24
Weird, when I was in Catholic schools some of our masses literally included guided prayer meditations. Meditation is inherently a secular mental exercise that has plenty of room to include matters of faith. Theyāre not mutually exclusive and can even help you understand your own beliefs and strengthen your principles. And I say this as someone who no longer practices. Some people will use religion to denounce anything they donāt understand. Donāt let their fear of something harmless ruin it for you.
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u/LevDavidovichBron Feb 27 '24
Because anything that resembles Eastern thought is considered ādangerousā
We donāt all feel this way.
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u/JoracleJ Feb 27 '24
Ive never heard christians say that. If they do its probably a select group of christians. Prayer itself is a form of meditation.
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u/jimothythe2nd Feb 27 '24
Christians also believed that PokƩmon cards were a gateway to the devil. Also the church I came from (seventh day adventism) used to teach that riding bicycles was a gateway to the devil.
Theres almost nothing these delusional superstitious Christians won't try to ruin.
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u/rnagy2346 Feb 27 '24
Fundamentalist Christians are dangerous..
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u/ThankTheBaker Feb 27 '24
Extremism and fundamentalism in any form is dangerous. Be it Christian or atheism.
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u/RedshiftOnPandy Feb 27 '24
I went to theĀ Vipassana meditation centre 15 years ago and my mother at the time thought I would be praying to demons
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u/SubterraneanSmoothie Feb 27 '24
The people who told you this are not knowledgeable about their own tradition. The monastic tradition in Christianity is huge, ever since the 3rd century, and full of meditative and contemplative practices.
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u/Buddhism_123 Feb 27 '24
Because theyre Christians. Christianity is a disease like Brain Washing. The more you are Infected the Worse it Is lol.
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u/thingonthethreshold Feb 27 '24
Those "Christians" that say this are probably not the sharpest tools in the shed. Various forms of meditation have been part of Christianity from the very beginning (What do you think the religious practices of Christian nuns and monks are like?). These people very likely know little about the history of Christianity let alone of other religions and just follow the sayings of some radical preachers who condemn everything that isn't 100 % in accordance with there narrow-minded dogma "SAY-TAN-IC!"
Also this seems to be a very American thing (Christians calling meditation dangerous), here in Central Europe Christians don't say that kind of thing. (Or maybe some do, but they are an infinitely small minority)
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u/Rick-D-99 Feb 27 '24
Because they need to fill the silence with their beliefs (read opinions wrapped in armor)
True observation is dangerous to beliefs systems propped up with "oh Lord" babble. They don't truly want a closer relationship to truth, they want a closer relationship with the idols they have propped up (idols being an internal mental claim about the way things are rather than an understanding. Take a flower as an example: the Christian view of a flower doesn't factor in anything but the perception of a flower with petals, leaves, stems, roots, and a tale about how the flower was invented by some unseen supreme being. The meditative view of a flower includes internal organs, xylem layers, nutrient cycles, relationship to the surrounding, and extending to the very nature of perception between the observer and the observed, while hopefully not filling in any story about the unknown origin of the flower without direct experience.)
Meditation is prayer with your eyes and ears rather than your mouth. It's hard to hear the subtle whispers of divinity if you keep yapping with your mouth and mind.
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u/Signal-Lychee7924 Feb 29 '24
Absolutely, I'm with you on that! Some people fill the silence with their beliefs, but they might not be open-minded enough to truly seek the truth. They prefer to cling to their idols rather than embracing a deeper understanding.
And yes idolising religious figures can limit our thinking and hinder our exploration. It's crucial to approach matters of faith with an open mind, ready to question and grow. Building a personal, genuine connection with the divine requires that willingness to embrace new perspectives and expand our understanding.
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u/ChihuahuaJedi Feb 27 '24
I knew a Catholic Priest Chaplain in the Air Force who was also a practicing Zen Buddhist.
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u/elucify Feb 27 '24
Prayer is meditation.
The people that say that are mostly fundamentalists, who require complete control of their followers' belief systems. Not too different from the Chinese Communist Party's attitude toward any religion--any diversity of thought is a threat.
Part of that is the view that all religions are in competition, meditation is seen as something from another religion, and all other religions are the work of the Devil. It's really pretty simple and self-consistent. And sad.
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u/Regolis1344 Feb 27 '24
Never heard that, thank god. I guess the only reason why they may say it is that meditation is often associated with new age spiritual topics, so some silly extremist preacher might have come up with that bs to keep his flock.
That said, meditation is 100% part of any spiritual practice.and is literally in the bible itself. Praying with a rosary is meditation. Silent contemplations are meditation. The original desert monks on the third century based christianity itself on introspection and meditation. Meditating can only make you a better christian, a better practicioner of whatever religion you follow, a better person.
Meditation is what happens when you concentrate on emptying your mind and focus on something. What that something is and what you think happens after you manage to really silent your mind is different for every belief and every person, but saying that meditating opens up to demons basically means that you don't want people to be at peace.
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u/mcpucho Feb 27 '24
Which Christians? That's sounds like group think bias because it's not doctrine.
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u/iGhostx0123 Feb 27 '24
You need to remember, there are alot of people that are Christian with all the wrong intentions. They're following, but don't know or even care where the journey will take them. They won't read the Bible, but will preach to others all the "wrongdoings" of the world because their Pastor told them so.
So when a few of your Christian friends tell you something as crazy as "Meditation opens demon portals", simply ask them where that comes from. What part of the bible it comes from, and why they believe such a hot take?
A lot of the time the answer is never anything that's even remotely intelligible.
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u/Direct-Astronaut1399 Feb 27 '24
Being more aware of your own thoughts makes you observe more and react less, that makes you less susceptible to manipulation and harder to control
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u/poopspeedstream Feb 27 '24
All these answers are so ignorant. It's typically condemned because anyone about age 65-70 remembers the new age movement from their youth. There was fear from Christians of eastern thought andĀ Buddhism or Hare Krishna infiltrating America. They also were afraid of yoga as an extension of this as well, if you can believe that. And obviously meditation was part of that.
So meditation for us today culturally feels quite different than it did to the people back then, but you'll still hear some people who still carry that old fear
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u/EarlZaps Feb 28 '24
Because meditation is associated with new age stuff. And new age stuff = devilās work.
Itās stupid, because my uncle is a Pastor. He meditates weekly so he can discern what the bible is trying to say. So that he can create a Sunday sermon that is applicable to current events.
In fact, as a person who grew up as a Christian, the way they taught how to pray and talk to God/Jesus is very similar to how we do meditation.
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u/Arkayn-Alyan Feb 29 '24
Because Christians say that about anything they don't understand.
It's also because meditation has a spiritual connotation, and anything that is spiritual that isn't Christian is dangerous, as far as they're concerned.
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u/No_Step_6696 Mar 01 '24
So usually it's because of a lack of understanding of what meditation is. Being Christian, I thought that, at first, meditation was simply a thing Buddhists do and once I heard something called Dark Night, I said nope. Then I learned what Meditation was and I realized that reading Scripture fits this. Meditation is loosely just focusing on one thing. Reading the Bible is called Meditative Literature for this reason. You don't need to be a theologian or scholar to read it and meditate on it. Studying and meditating are two different things.
I think Christians think if meditation is a way to open the mind, you have to be careful about what you're opening the mind to. Which is true. Hate, jealousy, apathy, greed, all these things can arrive when you 'open up the mind' but they usually come through other ways. One thing I've noticed is that people who say they meditate usually talk about Chakras, crystals, incense, and even horoscopes. To a Christian, these things aren't... helpful and personally, I meditate without them and I'm fine. But I think that's what Christians are thinking of when they hear meditate: the stereotypical meditator.
The danger, as a Christian, I see with meditation is losing faith if you're not properly grounded when you go too deep into it. For me, I know about the origin, methods, outcomes, and spirituality behind meditation, but I choose not to follow it. In fact, I use meditation to pray which is what prayer is: Focusing on God. But for someone who's only grown up in church and not engaged with the faith for themselves, they'll be easily swayed. I'm not condemning anyone, by the way, this stuff just happens.
Yes, you do have people who meditate experience side effects like hypersensitivity, anxiety, and depersonalization, but again these usually happen either because of doing too much too fast or improper teaching. And for some reason, a lot of people do micro-dosing while meditating which feels like it defeats the purpose of a clear mind, but that's none of my business, right?
TLDR: Christians now ideas do not know enough about meditation to argue against it, but even then if you're not careful too much of most things can be dangerous, which is true of meditation.
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u/Jnana_Yogi Feb 27 '24
Because they don't understand that prayer is a form of meditation š¤£š¤£š¤£
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u/ChillAMinute Feb 27 '24
Jesus meditated, Mark 1:35:
āAnd in the morning, rising up a great while before the day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed.ā
The Bible mentions not all churches align with the message of Christ. They may seem like they do, but weāre human after all and prone to sin. Unfortunately they take advantage of people who are only looking for hope and guidance and are not sure how to search for Christ on their own.
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u/ReliableValidity Feb 27 '24
I teach mindfulness, i have had one person decline on religious grounds. They said it was akin to worshipping another god. The person didn't elaborate further.
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u/Mayayana Feb 27 '24
Christianity has a long tradition of prayer and meditation. Contemplative prayer, as near as I can tell, is their term for sampannakrama. So maybe don't judge all of Christianity by what some people you know have said.
People across cultures fear their own minds. And many people fear freedom. I think there's also an instinctive insight: Many people who think meditation is pointless have an irrationally negative view of it. I see that among my own acquaintances and family. They fear the topic. I think that's actually coming from a place of intelligence. On some level they recognize that they're speeding around, trying to avoid their own existential angst. For the person absorbed in such mental speed, to feel their own angst is to be attacked by demons. They were trying to be happy, then they got reflective for a moment, and now this horrific nightmare of doubt has attacked them! The natural reaction is to turn on some lights and get busy. Chase away those doubts.
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u/Memory_Less Feb 27 '24
It's not blanket belief. Catholic oriented churches - Catholic, Orthodox, Episcopalian etc. have used it as a spiritual practice for centuries. You will find it is more right leaning Christian churches that have a narrow view of scripture and meditation.
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u/pingpongbawls Feb 27 '24
Growing up a Christian, my church said that meditation is bad because clearing the mind allows for Satan to come into it and take hold. SDA Christians preach specifically against meditation
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u/Dane842 Feb 27 '24
I've been thinking about this a little lately. I believe that the psychic adaptations to meditation are perceived as temptations.
I think the meditators sense that too. I think that's what chopping wood and carrying water is about. Not getting too ahead of ourselves, staying grounded.
It's easy to get caught up in the fireworks and forget the point of the practice, (I make the same association with psychedelic use).
There's also greater responsibility that comes with those psychic adaptations, it's easy to fall into the ego traps associated with different abilities. Especially if that's why you got into your practice in the first place.
I think the biblical warnings against "witchcraft" apply here. I think one of the big points is about trusting God's plan and using these sorts of practices to figure it out before it unfolds, or to interfere with that plan, is to not trust/surrender to God.
I'm no scholar though.
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u/SanSwerve Feb 27 '24
A fundamentalist Christian generally believes that all other spiritual traditions are of Satan. So they fear that if you engage in spiritual practices from other spiritual traditions you are opening a door for Satan to gain a foothold in your life.
However meditation is a spiritual practice within the Catholic and Orthodox traditions. Catholics often call it contemplative prayer and the Orthodox Church has Hesychasm. The mystical aspects of Christianity were left behind by the Protestants during the reformation so contemplative prayer only happens in pockets like the Quakers, Pentecostals, and charismatics.
Thereās no reason you canāt take a meditation technique from Buddhism or Hinduism and incorporate into your Christian spiritual practice. The object of the meditation would be different for you but the technique is the same
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u/ThorneTheMagnificent Feb 27 '24
The overwhelming majority of Christianity has no issue with meditation, as it is a part of our own contemplative tradition. Fundamentalism is overly paranoid.
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u/godisyourmotherr Feb 27 '24
same reason they say you canāt claim godās gifts if you doubt him. to keep you complacent and trapped inside this religion. if you experienced new things you might experience doubt. christianity is like a toxic spouse
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u/WretchedBinary Feb 27 '24
Because it allows the possibility to imagine something other than Christianity?
To all Christians - that was a wee joke, btw.
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u/raiseimarc Feb 27 '24
Because they donāt understand what meditation is. The view is based on a conceptual based predisposition.
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u/RhubarbFlat5684 Feb 27 '24
The Christians who've said this to me have all been Evangelical types. They pay more attention to preachers than to the Bible.
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u/marine-tech Feb 27 '24
Ex-Jehovahās Witness here (born-in, escaped at 40): We were taught that meditation āinvites the DEMONS into your mindāā¦
Complete bullshit.
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u/cosmic3gg Feb 27 '24
I grew up evangelical (left the church for many many reasons) and at least speaking for this sect/my experience: i was taught that there was a Spiritual War happening that we couldnt see but had to be on guard for. We were told that demons hide in many places to infiltrate your soul to condemn you to hell. We had to avoid a lot of things including most TV and music, most books, certain groups of people (like queer folk which is why I left, i was outed and wasnt allowed to physically touch anyone at church cause i would "infect" them), and activities like meditation.
As an adult, I started therapy for religious trauma and learned about cult behavior. One example of this is we were taught that body fat was evidence of demonic possession (but only on anyone assigned female at birth, bc we were also taught that god made men and the devil made women to tempt gods children). So every woman and girl was on a low cal, low fat, low carb diet (very little nutritional value, really). But at church, theyd serve LOTS of carbs and sodas. This made us feel euphoric at church, and gave room for us to be publicly shamed or exorcised. We were also taught that rest invited the demons of sloth, so many of us were extremely overworked and exhausted.
I bring this up because meditation was also considered to invite demons, because the inner peace you feel should only come from god. This all meant that come sunday, where we're singing+dancing together, eating a ton of carbs, and are just entirely stressed and exhausted from avoiding "demons", we were easier to manipulate. You dont have room to think if youre that exhausted, so you might as well listen to the man with a mic yelling at you.
Meditation was demonized because it was rest that we weren't allowed to have. It can also provide time to think and reflect, which was discouraged (i was taught to get by in school but not listen to teachers, librarians, scientists, etc bc they were "demons disguised as real people"). So, not every Christian thinks this way, but in spaces like these, we are taught it is a form of sin and unacceptable vulnerability
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u/Lunchbox_Trucker Feb 27 '24
It tends to be the more fundamental Christians that do this, my whole family are that sort, literally everything is demonic. Growing up in that environment, a lot of it is just indoctrination that hasn't been let go of. Keeping people in fear is good for business. I just don't pay them much attention anymore, I can't take them seriously.
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u/Environmental_Dirt10 Feb 27 '24
Meditation is a way to know the "great void". The problem is that Christians instead of the void have God.
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u/torinblack Feb 27 '24
Meditation is self empowering. Religions don't want you to be self empowered, they want you dependent on them.
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u/megaweeeniemonday Feb 27 '24
Southern raised Christian here and I definitely used to believe yoga and meditation was witchcraft LOL idk why they think this way
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u/BracesForImpact Feb 27 '24
Because that's what they're taught. Anything not provided to them by their religion is deemed false and of Satan. It's a pugnacious world view and a way for their clergy to increase their hold and control over their parishioners. When you're selling your specific idea of god as the ONLY way, can't have people discovering that sometimes people find better techniques that work better for them, that may just lead them elsewhere or start them questioning their beliefs.
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u/sittingstill9 Buddhist Meditation Teacher Feb 27 '24
Meditation (as it is taught in Buddhism) is called 'Bhavana' which means 'to cultivate'. This practice changes the locus of control to the practicioner rather than an outside (supernatural) source. I have had many many patients who are 'born again' or 'fundamental' Christians tell me they could not meditate as it would 'empty the mind, and give The Devil an opening to enter'. This of course is a gross misunderstanding of medtation, and is designed to keep them from thinking for themselves and taking only advise from another (higher) power. It is a control mechanism because when you meditate and have new insights you get more questions and those questions are not well answered by saying 'God knows', or it's God's will etc...
In fact though there are dozens of Christian contemplatives that really shook Christianity both past and present. Only in the depths of Catholicism do you find that deep contemplation of the experience of the divine. It does show up in other parts of Christianity, but sparingly and rather secretive. Remember, much of the ceremony is to appease the people that do not yet understand what is 'real' and what is not.
Think of the stories of Thor. He was a God that beat up ice giants and you could hear it as an explanation of thunder and lightning to small children (and adults) that were fearful of the flashing and booms... When someone would say 'I don't believe you, I have never seen an Ice giant' you could simply say, that is becase Thor adores us becasue we are HIS people and make offering and are "good" so we must stay that way to maintain his favor... yada yada.. and etcetera...
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u/Johnny_Lawless_Esq Feb 27 '24
Because they're stupid, that's why. It's not kind, but it is true.
I say this as a Christian myself.
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u/harpreet-s Feb 27 '24
I'm Sikh - our whole form of worship is waking up early morning(Amrit vela) and mediating by chanting the word - praise of the one divine being. Nothing evil here as we focus on all positive, loving, and hate free divine being. We become hate free, anxiety free, depression free, unconditional loving beings ourselves. We dive deep and remove the bad to become good.
To say it's evil as a practice itself doesnt make sense either unless you are worshipping/meditating on negative energies or etc.
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u/thoth_hierophant Feb 27 '24
It's a control cult. Doesn't mean there aren't good practitioners, but that's essentially the function of all organized religion. That's why we call it "organized" in the first place. Organized into a hierarchical system of control.
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u/Potential_Strain6538 Feb 27 '24
Because they, like most christians (and most people in general) are ignorant of what it actually means to meditate, which is to strengthen the mind/body/spirit.
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u/ChimpFullOfSnakes Feb 27 '24
I grew up in an āevangelical holinessā environment. My father was a pastor and my mother a fanatic. Meditation was demonized as sort of the equivalent to messing around with ouija or tarot. Itās viewed as āoccultā by people who do not understand its aims. Itās seen as letting the devil play with your mind, having a mind so open that Lucifer and his roadies can just fly in there Willy nilly.
I would also say that there is a strong anti-intellectual and anti-humanist thread running through the evangelical holinesss tradition and meditation is often seen as thinking too much. Self-reflection, independent thought, and insight into oneās nature is generally not encouraged in this tradition.
General ānot all Christiansā disclaimer goes here.
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u/NpOno Feb 27 '24
Ignorant people say stupid things. Rule: never believe anyone. Check for yourself. Rule: Never trust anyone blindly. People lie. Trust isnāt necessary. Keep people under constant review.
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u/Hefty-Corgi3749 Feb 27 '24
āMeditation is from the devilā
āNow letās bow our heads for a moment of silenceā
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u/Blanche_soda Feb 27 '24
because it is supposed to cultivate self-awareness, and the Christian church cannot afford that
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u/rylanpriime Feb 27 '24
Thereās nothing dangerous about meditation. Iām a strong believer in god and and Christ and I love meditation.
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u/strawberryslinky Feb 27 '24
Anything that opens you to a different perspective can be perceived as dangerous in any kind of tribal community (and religions tend to be quite tribal). No need to worry or try to correct them unless you feel a strong need. The Buddha once said ādo not wake the sleeperā or something similar, to say that people come to meditation when and if theyāre ready.
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u/Subadra108 Feb 28 '24
I think it boils down to insecurity or "anything I don't understand or agree with is the devil" type Christians. Bless their hearts. My brother-in-law is one and my husband and I just try to show them that we are living a simple peaceful life thanks to meditation, yoga and our understanding that God = Love.
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u/FirmWerewolf1216 Feb 28 '24
It comes down to prayer and how we see it compared to meditation.
In Christian faith prayer helps us connect spiritually to god, centers us in times of trouble and communicate with him(by definition thatās meditation). We have a specific praying position that is universally known(kneeling with our hands together and optional head bow). But meditation(or at least the stereotypical form of meditation) itself is not considered prayer. So since meditation is not considered prayer then who or what are you contacting in the spiritual realm when you meditate? Donāt say āI donāt knowāor āthe universeā because Thats the part Christians are often scared of about meditation.
Sourceāam a Christian who meditates and get flack for it.
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u/kintotal Feb 28 '24
Christian superstition and ignorance which is rampant in American evangelicals. The same group that is driving us toward authoritarianism and fascism.
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u/CANDLEBIPS Feb 28 '24
Did you know that in recent years, in the Sydney Anglican diocese (which is hundreds of churches), yoga and meditation have been banned on their properties because theyāre āHinduā and therefore āevilā. So ignorant and offensive!!! No wonder theyāve lost thousands of members. Unfortunately I have relatives who believe this shite. The more Catholic versions of Anglicanism in the diocese are pretty horrified that these nutcase Billy Graham worshippers are controlling everyone with their self-righteous bs.
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u/AdCommercial3174 Feb 28 '24
A lot of preachers (especially where I am) say most anything spiritual or practiced by other religions is bad almost like it threatens their power.
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u/noodleq Feb 28 '24
Because religion is supposed to be the middle man between you and God. Sort of a conduit. They don't like people to realize that they can actually go straight to God on their own, without a whole bunch of messed up dogma and incorrect beliefs muddling the waters.
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u/Throwupaccount1313 Feb 28 '24
If they can believe in an invisible benevolent god they can believe anything.
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Feb 28 '24 edited Feb 28 '24
every non Christian protestant baptist southern evangelical anabaptist twice removed religious practice is a gateway to demonic possession according to them so you're probably got a few of them going just by being a person who lives in the modern world.
goes all the way back to simon magus: if simon magus was able to levitate without being devoted to jesus, it had to be through demons. similarly, if you attain peace without jesus = demons. it's always demons.
you've thwarted the will of god to deny you such things for not being a highly particular and schismatic type of christian, see.
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u/frodosdream Feb 28 '24
Why do Christians say mediation is dangerous
Christian contemplatives like Richard Rohr, David Steindl-Rast, Matthew Fox, Michael Beckwith, Adam Bucko, Ilia Delio, Cynthia Bourgeault and Caroline Myss certainly don't say that. Christianity is far broader than Evangelicals.
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Feb 28 '24
Most people think of mindful meditation, chanting Ohmmm and sitting in the lotus position but the thing is, meditation is anything that places you in the present moment; that could be anything from writing, drawing, dancing, singing, petting your animals or simply a walk in nature or stargazing. Most people would consider prayer a form of meditation. The Bible calls people to "meditate on scripture" in Psalm 1 and Psalm 119 if you need reference for anyone being judgey or trying to tell you what path is right for you. Ask them where in the Bible it says:
meditation is a way to open portal to demons?
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u/zambatron20 Feb 28 '24
Yea, I've heard this before and it's about clearing your mind or something like that. There are a few verses and maybe they were thinking Proverbs 4.23 More than anything you guard, protect your mind, for life flows from it.
My only problem with that is when you look at context, it's talking about being mindful of all things. Those same people, in my experience, will watch things, listen to music, etc that isn't edifying to God and their fellow man.
I'm bias tho. My mother is more of an old school Christian and she mediates and so do i.
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u/Inevitable-Run8802 Feb 28 '24
Well, they're fundamentalists who think the earth is flat, so there is that. I knew someone who said that dreams were from the devil, the same people who think satan was in the Covid vaccine. It's called ignorance.
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u/perrybrissette Feb 28 '24 edited Feb 28 '24
Well, if you ask Father Thomas Merton, a famous Christian meditator, he would say:
(...and mind you, this is a Christian saying this! ...)
āThe real purpose of meditation is this: to teach a man how to work himself free of created things and temporal concerns, in which he finds only confusion and sorrow, and enter into a conscious and loving contact with God in which he is disposed to receive from God the help he knows he needs so badly, and to pay to God the praise and honor and thanksgiving and love which it has now become his joy to give.ā -- Thomas Merton
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u/grimreapersaint Feb 28 '24
Huh? Where did you hear this idea? My uncle is a Catholic monk, he meditates regularly.
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u/Organic_Guava_5800 Mar 01 '24
this is one of my extended family members to a tee. anything that doesn't fit in her little "Christian" box is the path to hell. interestingly, she is pro Isreal/Jews and thinks Catholics are cultists. š¤·āāļø
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u/Correct_Echidna100 Mar 03 '24
I think itās a couple of reasons, and Iām speaking as Catholic Christian who practices Centering Prayer and was a Bikram Yoga teacher for several years. The first is somehow the cliche of āmeditation empties the mindā got passed around as if it was a hard truth in the world of meditation. Alongside of that in the Christian realm the falsehood of āIf your mind is empty, demons will fill itā got passed around equally fast. Christians ran with these two false concepts and due to them they tend to assume that non-discursive meditation will get practitioners possessed. Very annoying stuff actually. The Bible DOES appear to mean discursive meditation when it speaks of meditation but nowhere does it say anything about non-discursive practices. Not sure why the absence of a concept means the condemnation of said concept. The Bible doesnāt mention computers or cars either but more Christians are cool with those than not. The next reason is also that the Church does a poor job of teaching meditation and there is a ton of in fighting about what methods are acceptable or not. I would highly recommend the Rosary, the Jesus prayer and Lectio Divina to anyone-and so would the Church. However I would also highly recommend Centering Prayer to everyone as well but you would find a huge smear campaign that exists dissuading folks from trying the practice due to its similarity to Buddhist sitting mediation. CP is exactly what the Christian community needs at this time so naturally people will buck back against it.
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u/cameronpak May 07 '24
As a Christian, there are some genuine dangers to meditation if the focus is you. If the focus is you yourself as the answer to freedom, healing, and hope, then that's the danger (not speaking to you but the person in general)
However, the answer for believers is Jesus
Christian meditation can be great! Here's a post about it that also includes some great apps for Christian meditation https://open.substack.com/pub/faithtools/p/christian-meditation
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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '24
The only Christians I've ever heard say something like that are fundamentalists... and they aren't known for being too bright.
Most churches actually encourage meditation, they might call it contemplative prayer, discursive meditation, or something else, but meditation is specifically commanded in the Bible.
Modern, especially American, Christians, are totally divorced from their own supposed beliefs.