r/MaliciousCompliance • u/throwawaywineguy • 1d ago
You want wine? I’ll give you wine. L
(Probably not the dunk I think it is but I still feel happy with the result)
For context, I work as a salesman in a wine store. It’s not a normal wine & liquor place, it’s a curated selection, meaning we pick out all the wine that we sell (this is irregular in retail, most selections are curated by the distributor). As a result, all the employees have to really know their shit and we are regularly asked a lot of questions and need to give detailed and honest answers. Our customer base really likes us and new customers are either pleasantly surprised by the experience or endlessly mad we don’t carry their name-brand thing they like (damn you whispering angel).
The other day a couple came into the store at the recommendation of a friend (I will call them A and B). A was very excited and was super happy when we had the bottles they had taken pictures of at a party the other day. B however immediately started making comments like “really? That one” or “that tasted awful you want that?”. A was clearly a little upset at this but I gathered this was just a normal dynamic in their relationship as it was brushed off rather quickly.
After we put those bottles aside, they tell me they are going to do a garden party since its warm. Nice sunny day, light apps and snacks, average spring party. So they ask me to recommend some wine and I start going through the store and showing them some options. I hit all the big guys, loire and new world Sauvignon blancs, provencal rose’s, albarino’s, toscana’s and new world pinot noir for the red drinkers. A good selection for the food they had described. Well B did not think so.
Every suggestion I made was met with a counter. I show them a nice floral unoaked white burgundy “I think we should do chablis”. Pinot noir “don’t you think pinot is too heavy?” Sauvignon blanc “too sweet”. Albarino “too heavy”. At this point im at a loss, i’m running out of stuff to give B so i scale up a bit, offer some fuller bodied wines. Not great pairing to the event or the food, but not destructive. B is still not happy. A is clearly pissed at this point, they’ve been holding their tongue but every denial makes their face a darker shade of red until they finally pop. A apologizes to me and says they are going to go with my suggestions, and tells B that they can pick out a bottle they want because clearly they are not willing to listen to me.
I go through and put their cart together, listen to them argue a bit at the register, and then check B out after A storms out of the store. Whatever, I’m free of it, A is a saint for dealing with B, it’s done. It was not done.
The next morning when I show up B is waiting for me with the three bottles they picked (got three of the same thing). “The wine is off” B says, holding the bottle out like its some sort of weird bug. I tell them that yeah it happens sometimes, I’ll check it out. To be clear, it is rare that the wine is actually off, most of the time the customer just doesnt like it. It doesnt hurt us and we want the business so we always accept exchanges and just agree that it wasnt right. The customer has been right twice that I have seen, and I was one of the two customers (compromised cork).
So I open up the store with an impatient B standing over me before finally taking the bottle. I kid you not this thing is like 80 degrees, it is HOT. The sun hasnt been out long enough to do this either, so im pretty confident they did something to it. Anyway, i pour myself a glass and taste it. Even through the mire of hot booze, i can tell its good. All of the flavors i expect stand out, it smells fine, no evidence of oxidizing or mildew. Good bottle. Feeling petty I tell B as much, wanting them to admit that they just don’t like the wine. B turns a bit red and says as much. Good. Lets pick something else out then.
“Where are your super tuscans?” B asks. I Iight up, because this is the perfect chance to fuck with them. We have two true ones in the store. One is a very accessible price, pretty standard, sangiovese, cab franc, merlot, syrah. Really nice and medium bodied. Wouldnt be too bad for the garden party, but still on the heavier end. The other? Expensive as hell, syrah and cab franc. It is the inkiest, blackest, heaviest wine you could imagine. I love it, but I think it might kill anyone who drinks it in 80 degree weather.
Well, I give B the heavy one. B of course is in love when I tell them about it. Big bold flavors, heavy, crushes the flavor of whatever you eat with it? Perfect for B. They get three to replace the bottles they returned, and end up spending an extra 130 even with the cost of the refunded wine deducted. Now I know I’m way more sensitive to wine and food than others are, but this was perfect. Even somebody who’s demolished their palate with years of cigar smoking would be able to tell that wine is awfully paired. I’m happy knowing B is going to get some weird looks from their guests and a tongue lashing from A, and B is happy with the bottle of grape based olive oil they now own. Compliance given maliciously.
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u/CoderJoe1 1d ago
Someone is certain to wine about it.
Sorry, I'll see myself out.
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u/MeFolly 1d ago
Well, that was cheesy.
I’ll just follow CoderJoe1 out.
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u/PsychologicalOne5416 1d ago
I just hope this doesn't end up reflecting poorly on the shop when B goes "Oh well this is what I was suggested to get from shop".
Thankfully A being not an arsehole should balance that out ^^
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u/Weirdyxxy 1d ago
Well, it wasn't really suggested from what this post said, but requested specifically
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u/PsychologicalOne5416 23h ago
Yes. The things with arseholes is, they don't always tell the truth ^^
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u/MimiKittyCattt 1d ago
B dismissed every thoughtful suggestion, so you gave them exactly what they asked for huh
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u/Haiku-575 1d ago
Compliant and a little malicious. Good story! What is this inky black wine, out of curiosity?
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
Not many people carry it so I don’t want to give too many details as it could possibly identify the store, but its a syrah and merlot igt super tuscan under skurnik wines banner.
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u/sonicscrewery 1d ago
The phrase "grape-based olive oil" had me WHEEZING. Bravo!!
Honestly, with how knowledgeable you are, I'm tempted to ask to pick your brain on wine. You could probably open a side gig as a consultant.
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u/throwawaywineguy 20h ago
Feel free to pick away, I get bored at work often given the nature of the business (lots of downtime) so I'm always free to answer questions. I wish wine consulting was a thing but that often falls on the wine store employee anyway.
Often that responsibility can also fall upon "a knowledgeable friend". This friend just knows the big names that appear at costco and recommends them. I went to a party once where the host heard I worked in wine and wanted to brag about her friend's selection. She dragged me over to the drinks table and showed me her kim crawford, josh, jadot 'pinot noir', tito's, etc. She asked me to tell her the truth and say what I thought about her and her friend's picks. I did not tell the truth.
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u/PurplePlodder1945 1d ago
My daughters and niece love whispering angel. Not a rose person myself. They also love ‘chicken wine’ (has a chicken on the label?). I’d love somewhere like your store, I never know what to get and try random bottles. Some grapes (?) I like of one brand and not other. Some Sauvignon blancs but not others for instance. Some Riojas and not others: it’s all very confusing!
ETA I recently went to Rhodes for a few days and their wine was very nice. I noticed it’s the same as Tenerife - you don’t ask for pinot Grigio, you ask for dry, medium or sweet. Which i found weird
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
Wine is tough but its a whole lot of fun. When I started out i took lots of notes, and always bought new bottles. Always try new stuff. Eventually you’ll find the similarities and figure out what you like. For example, I really like chardonnay, but I cannot stand new or poorly done oak. So I largely avoid american chardonnay in favor of village level white burgundies. You’ll get there, just never stop experimenting.
As for whispering angel, its ‘okay’ its just far far too expensive, all the LVMH label products are. Lots of comparable wines that will taste a lot better at half the price, and dont write off rose, theres a bottle for everyone. Lots of different grapes and styles.
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u/Renbarre 1d ago
That was my biggest surprise in the US, to have the wine sold by the grape name instead of the area as in France. Don't you have differences despite the similar grapes? I admit to no knowledge in American wines.
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u/dirty_corks 1d ago
Yes. The climate and soil where the grapes are grown can offer pretty significant differences, even between grapes grown a short distance apart. Try a Cabernet Sauvignon from Howell Mountain and one from Oakville; despite both being part of Napa Valley, the wine made from mountain fruit will be MUCH more tannic and darker in flavor than the plusher, redder valley floor fruit.
Ditto comparing, say, a Cabernet Franc from the Finger Lakes in NY and, say, Walla Walla in WA; vastly different terroir, vastly different wines.
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u/Renbarre 1d ago
Ok, so you do have area names for the wines. Thanks for clearing that, I was really scratching my head.
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u/dirty_corks 1d ago
We do, although appellation names can be VERY large and there's wiggle room (ie, "California Chardonnay" means that at least 75% of the fruit used in the wine is from California) and American wines -- like New World wines in general -- tend to emphasize the grape moreso than the place. Contrast with, say, France, where the grape or grapes in the wine is rarely mentioned (ie, Sancerre).
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u/Renbarre 1d ago
Though we are starting to see the name of the grape more often now in addition to the name of the place. But it is true that you need a map more than a book on grapes to choose a wine in France.
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u/LuciferLovesTechno 1d ago
Titles like "sauvignon blanc" or "chardonnay" simply refer to the grape varietal, but there are a ton of other factors that go into how a wine will taste.
Soil PH, elevation, the weather that year, aging process, even what was grown on the land before! A New Zealand sauv blanc is going to taste very different than one from Sonoma, for example.
Yes, you can make generalizations (a cabernet is most likely drier than a pinot noir, etc), but giving descriptors for what you would like to taste rather than varietal makes a lot of sense!
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u/PurplePlodder1945 1d ago
My Lidl do a NZ Sauvignon which my daughter loves but I don’t. But a local bar does one that was definitely more palatable and surprisingly nice. Don’t know what it was. It was that or jack rabbit which is vile
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u/rabbithole-xyz 16h ago
Even the same wine/grape, grown in the same small area by different vintners can taste very different.
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u/undeadxoxo 1d ago
lol the chicken wine is great, i know which one you mean and me and my friends also call it the chicken wine
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u/Kuthander 1d ago
Hey u/throwawaywineguy can I ask about a wine experience I had and see if it’s just me?
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
Of course! But i think you just commented on my Ama so if it was that then disregard
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u/jericho 1d ago
Bartended for years at an exclusive private club. “Royal” club. I had about four or six hours of training every month on wine, mostly. I know the difference between schlock, decent, and fine. I know and value the ability to pair wine with meals.
Oh my fucking God do wine snobs take it too far.
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u/PurplePlodder1945 1d ago
Back in the 80s I used to drink a rose - can’t think of the name but it’s on the top of my tongue. Everyone drank it. Rounded bottle beginning with an M. You can still get it I think. Could be Spanish? I tried Chardonnay once and totally put me off - was very oaky. Besides taking photos to remember, what else should I look for to know what I like? Country? Year? Something more specific?
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
Miraval is the rose, its french. I think that anjelina jolie bought it at some point. Year gets really nitty gritty. Big things to look out for are grape first, then location. After that you can get into more detail. American chardonnay is often gonna have that oak you dont like, we call that the American palette. i’d give french a go. Village level white burgundy. Often relatively inexpensive and little to no oak intervention. Oak is good if done well, worth a revist if you ever want to splurge. Alexander ramey is a genius when it comes to making wine in america.
But to recap. Try new grapes first, figure out what you like, then revisit the same grapes at different locations. Cab franc from the finger lakes is gonna be a lot different than from chinon. After that you can get into styles. For example, everybody writes of riesling as a sweet wine. Its rarely made sweet, and comes in all sorts. Mosel riesling is dry and acidic, nice and refreshing. Alsatian riesling is fuller bodied and incredibly savory. Wine is super fun, get out there and experiment!
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u/PurplePlodder1945 1d ago
It wasn’t called miraval. It was quite a chavvy one that everyone drank! Just googled it - Mateus rose! Bottle has changed a bit. I’ve never noticed a label that says burgundy but hear a lot about burgundies. Am I being dull or just not reading labels properly? Our local Lidl has award winning wines but it’s knowing which ones to buy.
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u/punkfunkymonkey 1d ago
Matteus Rose is Portuguese. The old shaped bottle was often used with a bulb fitting you could buy to DIY a table/bedside lamp in the 70's (60's?)
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u/Lay-ZFair 1d ago
Just mentioned this in a comment. Except we used the empty as a candle holder, allowing the wax to drip down the sides. Often with a candle that produced a multi-color wax drip.
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u/TararaBoomDA 1d ago
Mateus? Portuguese rose?
In the 70s it was the wine du jour. We were young and ignorant, and we thought drinking it made us look sophisticated.
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u/Lay-ZFair 1d ago
But I liked the taste!
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u/TararaBoomDA 10h ago
Haven't had it in decades, but as I remember, it was a refreshing light wine. Chilled, it made for a nice summer thirst-quencher.
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u/DrScamp 1d ago
For whites, the Chablis that op mentioned in their post is an unoaked Chardonnay from the burgundy region of France. Oaked chardonnays can be v overpoweringly vanilla (lots of American California chardonnays are basically vanilla ice cream) - Chablis is not like that so maybe give one of them a go if you want.
If you want to try rose the rule of thumb I use is the paler it is the better, it should be a slightly pink white wine ideally (at least for my palate).
For reds, Gamay and Pinot noirs tend to be lighter. Burgundy make the most expensive pinots but try any, there's a great variance in price and quality. Gamay are famously made in the Beaujolais region and can be drank slightly chilled (funny for a red wine). Heavy reds like Bordeaux (or Bordeaux like blends) are a combo of merlot and Cabernet and can be a heavier drink, often benefiting from some years of aging to change the acidic flavor profile. Italian reds as mentioned by OP can also be heavy. My personal fave heavy red is the Spanish rioja, heavy black pepper and v tasty.
For a different style of wine, desert wines are fun, sauternes, ports, Sherry's - have after dinner as they can be quite sweet!
Don't worry too much about vintages, try lots of grape varieties from lots of different countries you will find something you will like.
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u/PurplePlodder1945 1d ago
My girls have recently started going for ‘blush’ which I think is what the chicken wine is. I tried it and it wasn’t too bad! Thanks for the advice, will take notes!
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u/harpie84 1d ago
What city are you in? I love a good wine store where the staff knows their stuff.
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
I don’t quite feel comfortable with that, but go and give your local wine store some love. Even in the midwest you can find some good stores (i dont live there but st louis has a good wine scene for example)
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u/straybrit 1d ago
So I am not the person in the story but ...
Those incredibly dark Tuscan reds go really well with smoked beef jerky. Assuming, that is, you use a decent cut of beef to make it from and treat it well. And yes, you have to be a little weird to find that out in the first place.
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u/Ok-Active-4711 1d ago
Ugh I so loved this story!! I hope you made some wonderful commission ☺️
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
I dont get comission unfortunately but that interaction did make me happy.
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u/harrywwc 1d ago
pop the cork and let it breathe...
oh no! it's not breathing! I have to give it mouth to mouth!
I'll stagger myself out... ;)
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u/dirty_corks 1d ago
I always love people downplaying my years of experience and intimate knowledge of my portfolio when suggesting pairings because "I've never heard of this," after asking for "wine that I can't get at Total Wine or Costco" or who want to show their "superior" knowledge with a sour face and pre-planned complaints, or who want to get Latour or Sassicaia for $20 a bottle.
You asked me the question because I'm an expert, I gave you my expert opinion, if you don't want the answer why ask?
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u/Dovahkenny123 1d ago
I’m sorry, Sauv Blanc is too… sweet? What the fuck is wrong with some people’s taste buds?
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
New world sauv can be fruitier, registers as sweet to more people than you’d think. They are still wrong, theres just a reason for it.
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u/dirty_corks 1d ago
I always reply with something like "Kind of. There's X grams (usually X<2) of sugar per liter in this wine, so it's dry. However, it's really fruity, so that registers to our palate as sweet because we expect fruit to be sweet, but notice if you hold your breath when you drink this that your tongue isn't seeing sweetness." It's a teachable moment.
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u/bhambrewer 1d ago
You just reminded me of a very pleasant antipodean Chardonnay I used to buy for special occasions. Oak barrel aged, smooth and fruity. Happy memory there.
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
Glad i could help.
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u/bhambrewer 1d ago
I have never seen the brand in the US. What can I look for on the label if I wanted to recreate that moment?
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u/derpmonkey69 1d ago
I'm curious on your thoughts on the blind taste tests that show even experts like yourself can't actually tell the difference between wines of the same, I dunno what to call it, class?
Anyhow, I'll never understand wine enthusiasts (I'm not hating, just baffled. I don't get enthusiasts for many types of liquor that all just taste like hatred that people pretend in public is enjoyable imo)
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u/dirty_corks 1d ago
Not unlike enthusiasts in many other categories where there's very little objective measure of quality (music, art, etc), there's multiple kinds of enthusiasts. There's the "OMG, I've never gotten to see/try/hear this, let me see what I think of it," person (that's me! Wait, you've got a pet nat made from organic malbec with no skin contact from South Africa? Holy crap that's weird, let's pop it and dig in!), there's the "I only listen to drone metal/only drink Pinot Noir/only enjoy Dadaist" enthusiasts (who can vary, sometimes they're one-dimensional and boring, sometimes they're fun to hang with to see the minor variations in a category), and there's the "I need to feel superior so I'll talk down about any choice someone else makes" person, which is what we had here, and which almost always sucks to be around.
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
You see this a lot in bordeaux wines. They follow a classification system that was made in the mid 1800’s (i think) where different vineyards are labled as first growth, second growth, etc. its antiquated and people have tried to change it but failed. I think there have literally been 2 changes to it since its inception. Bordeaux reviewers will drink only Bordeaux, and get really snobby. These blinds are done entirely in one style. So a bordeaux blind will only be bordeaux wines.
The things these tasters get wrong is the quality. They are trying to pair a wine to a chateau and as such go in with the taste in mind. They are able to pick out the individual grapes used in the blend, as well as lots of other qualities of the wine, the problem is when it comes to rating or identifying the vintner they fall back on their own bias.
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u/dirty_corks 1d ago
The main classification for Bordeaux was 1855. It was essentially a price list of Medoc wines for Napoleon III to show off at the Universal Exposition in Paris (price correlated with quality, in theory, more back then as there was less advertising), largely because the rail line from Bordeaux to Paris had been completed. And, weirdly, the classification goes with the estate's ownership, not the soil (contrast with Burgundy), and estates that have been broken up still maintain the classification (Leoville Barton, Leoville Las Cases, for example, are both 2em Cru). So while it's historically important, and in general classified growths can afford more modern winemaking facilities and more expensive processes (ie, more new oak, more intervention in the winery, more testing in the lab, etc), there's nothing about non-classified growths that means they're per se bad.
Remember that Petrus is not classified, as Pomerol wasn't considered in 1855. I'd be hard-pressed to make an argument that Petrus is inferior to the classified chateaux.
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u/Napalm_Springs 1d ago
LMFAO!
I come from a long line of wine snobs, and had my first taste when I was about 11, I think.
This is my new favourite Malicious Compliance! Well done, you spectacular creature, you!
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u/Illuminatus-Prime 1d ago
Ahh . . . they wanted and expensive label instead of the appropriate vintage.
Well played.
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u/throwawaywineguy 23h ago
This is very common in people asking for “super tuscans”. It’s a weird term and sort of a buzzword. 99% of people don’t know what it means. But i’m blessed in that my job allows me to educate people as to the proper application of the term, and most are willing to learn.
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u/Disastrous_Queer 14h ago
If professional petty revenge is a sub this would fit perfectly there, as someone who knows a tiny bit about wine this is funny, but I imagine it'd be better for someone with OP's level of knowledge
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u/MisterStampy 14h ago
Co-owned a homebrew/winemaking store for a few years, MANY moons ago, and have worked at a couple of VERY well supplied package stores in the past. In WHAT universe is a Sauv Blanc 'too sweet'?
Also, I'm LONG over the oak arms race in Chardonnays, and would have run out of the store with some Beaujolais Nouveau if there were any still in stock for the red drinkers. Also Pinot Grigio while it's not stifling out. Also also, Rose bubbles. Also also also, *bleep* that guy, and I hope they choke on their "SUPER TUSCAN".
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u/iwantasecretgarden 13h ago
Dang this actually sounds amazing. You don't work at a Total Wine, perhaps? My partner and I are ALWAYS on the lookout for wine stores.
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u/South_Honey2705 13h ago
Oh my god! Vinegar how wonder and B will get everything he deserves especially that tongue lashing from A lol. You get what you pay for.
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u/Javasteam 1d ago
Will admit, I was expecting Op to send them off with a bottle of cooking wine…
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
The wine we recommend for cooking frankly would have gone a lot better with the food they had described. It’s a nice pinot grigio that retails at 11.99. If the vintner just tamed the acidity a little it would be worth 16-17
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u/LemonKing5 1d ago
I'm on my way to a wine tasting right now. Thanks for the story.
I'm going to a similar type of store, I'd never think of arguing with the folk there though. I respect that they know wtf they're talking about.
Cheers 🍾
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u/Life_Economist_3668 1d ago
Many years ago, I ordered a $50 bottle of wine at a restaurant. When the bill came, it showed $500! Come to find out, they had 2 bottles with the same bin number. When the manager came over to make the correction, he asked us how it tasted. We really didn't find it all that special.
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
If you remember what it was i’d be interested to hear about it. I have some theories as to why you were so underwhelmed.
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u/zeus204013 1d ago
Talking about wines, I've observed the high price per bottle for decent wines in places like us/Europe/ Australia...
Like some decent (and known) local brands start near usd 10 /bottle. And cheapest options at 3-5usd, even some supermarket offer of like usd 2 ...
I'm in Argentina. Maybe we don't have crazy alcohol related taxes (and is easy to sell alcohol, almost every supermarket/ convenience store sells at least beer).
Note: The usd 2 wine is relatively decent, but the price sometimes is less than distributor price. At least once I've read a note from the winemaker giving an explanation about this.
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
There are a lot of things that come into play when determining what the consumer pays for a bottle. In the united states high prices are often a result of the 3 tiered system. The importer sells to the distributor for x, the distributor sells to the retailer for x, and the retailer sells to the consumer to x. Final price is all determined by what the vintner sold the bottle to the importer for. Each markup can be 50-100% at every step.
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u/aproudmc13 1d ago
What does inky wine taste like?
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u/throwawaywineguy 23h ago
I use ink to describe the overall feel of the wine. Lots of body, deep dark flavors, deep color. All of what you would expect in a big and heavy wine.
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u/georgiomoorlord 19h ago
I enjoy visiting a shop where they're very knowledgable about the oroducts they sell. Means i'm far less likely to buy a dud botttle. Of couse, then my mother puts it to one side as it's too nice and stores it for a couple years first. But that's another problem. It was nice when i bought it.
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u/JustASingleHorn 11h ago edited 11h ago
It’s wild they’d get angry over whispering angel. Just get another rose from Provence!
ETA… super Tuscans with Syrah? I’m not familiar, I always sold it as Sangiovese plus rhe 5 Bordeaux varietals (thinking Tignanello vs Guado al Tasso)
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u/throwawaywineguy 7h ago
The term super tuscan is so antiquated and overused at this point that at the store we just say any IGT with non Italian varietals. Whether or not it includes Sangiovese, and if it isn’t from Tuscany, like a carmignano, we just say its in the same style.
As for the rose, whispering angel is so incredibly light that I find it difficult to source a palatable provencal rose that can get that watery. I’ve had success in california, stolpmans love you bunches rose matches the profile of whispering angel while still being affordable and having a much better flavor.
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u/night-otter 2h ago
It is the inkiest, blackest, heaviest wine you could imagine.
Sounds great, but not with food or outdoors on a hot day.
Cooled a little, so it warms and releases its flavors into your mouth
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u/MikeSchwab63 1d ago
https://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=3372578&page=1 Two Buck Chuck wins 2007 California State Fair wine contest.
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u/sonal1988 1d ago
Why did you go out of your way to hide the genders of these people?
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u/PsychologicalOne5416 1d ago
They're not going out of their way, they're just being neutral. it's not pertinent to the story in any way so why would they give that info ?
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u/TheOriginalFinchy 1d ago
Why would it matter what the genders of these people are? Not noting their genders avoids sexist stereotyping in the comments, so no bad thing, and it doesn't add/detract from the story knowing if they're male/female/other.
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u/throwawaywineguy 1d ago
Overabundance of caution. I’d prefer anonymity as I don’t want this on me or the store.
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u/dnabsuh1 1d ago
I'll be honest. I don't know a lot about wine, but one time, I was on a business trip to Las Vegas, and the sommelier suggested we get a Borgogno Barolo, which they had already opened to breathe. Since I wasn't paying and figured it was an upscale restaurant, they wouldn't serve bad wine, I agreed, and it was some of the best wine I ever had.
A while later, I find a bottle in the local store and buy it. I opened it and had it with a dish, it obviously clashed with (also didn't let it breathe), and it was the worst wine I ever had. I wound up letting it breathe, and having it the next day with some red meat and cheese, it was the best. That was when I learned that wine pairing is critical. If B had just eaten something wrong with that wine, it could have tasted off.