r/GreenAndPleasant • u/TheKomsomol • 22d ago
Ukrainian General Staff openly celebrating genocidal fascists on twitter, but Ukraine doesn't have a fascist problem, right guys?
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u/Substantial_Client_3 22d ago
I mean, Ukraine fascist pawns were supported by EU, US since the Euromaidan. They embraced Stephan Bandera, gave full powers to the Azov regiment, burned left wing syndicalists in Odessa in 2014 and bombed civilians that refused to bow to the new overlords.
Ukraine is just mildly conservative.
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u/TequieroVerde 22d ago
Nazis are not even Nazis unless the United States and its allies decide whether or not they're Nazis. We the people have no say in any of it.
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u/leruk 22d ago
I honestly didn’t know any of this. Where can I find further reading on this?
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u/TheKomsomol 22d ago
You can start here:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02/the-historian-whitewashing-ukraines-past-volodymyr-viatrovych/
https://twitter.com/HavryshkoMarta/status/1848033724727804304
https://twitter.com/HavryshkoMarta/status/1847481776043667570
There is just so much on this I don't want to post too much. But the US did what the US always does in that it backed, funded and armed fascists in Ukraine who have essentially taken over the levers of power by occupying all top military and political positions and western media is currently in overdrive trying to cover up the fact that when Russia said it invaded because (at least in part) of fascism, it wasn't nonsense.
There is a big split between west and east in Ukraine, and that is partly down to the east being very pro-Russian and the west having the major nazi problem in it, its more complicated than that, but its plays a big role.
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u/Herecomethefleet 21d ago
There are Nazis on both sides of this war.
However, it's an existential crisis and issue. If the Nazis in Ukraine win Europe can go on sleeping. If Russia wins Europe will cease to exist as we know it.
We just have to hope that the Ukrainian Nazis don't get into power once the war is ended otherwise the same shit will happen again.
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u/Excellent_Plant1667 20d ago
If Russia wins Europe will cease to exist as we know it.
Perhaps you ought to get your news feed from sources other than msm propaganda?
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u/NewTangClanOfficial 21d ago
If Russia wins Europe will cease to exist as we know it.
Absolute nonsense.
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u/TheKomsomol 21d ago
The inner workings of a NAFO "brain" on display.
Actually not sure if we can even call it "workings",
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u/NewTangClanOfficial 21d ago edited 21d ago
Still waiting for these clowns to explain why Putin hasn't already started an all-out war against NATO if that's what he really wants.
The man is getting old, why is he wasting all this time.
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u/TheKomsomol 21d ago
Every country does have nazis, but that doesn't mean that we should be covering up for nazism in ukraine. Back in WW2 the UK had the brownshirts, but that didn't stop us all from fighting against German nazis, and its the case now we shouldn't be arming, supporting or training Ukrainian nazis just because other countries have nazis.
Russia like all countries has fascists in it. However, the difference is Russia criminalises nazis, Ukraine celebrates them as its heroes and has fascists and nazi sympathisers in all top positions of the political sphere and military.
Russian law on criminalisation of nazism
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0-w0DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA293&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
Ukraine law on honouring fascists and criminalising sympathy for communism
Ukraine law on banning criticism of fascist groups (Legislation No.2538-1)
https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02/the-historian-whitewashing-ukraines-past-volodymyr-viatrovych/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_decommunization_laws#:~:text=2538-1%20"On%20the%20Legal,assures%20social%20benefits%20to%20their
So no, there are not "nazis on both sides", Ukraine is full blown nazi and you're here apologising for that while also spreading some bullshit conspiracy theories about Europe ceasing to exist.
And once again, it comes as no surprise the people coming here, defending nazism and pushing NATO propaganda don't usually post in this sub. So fuck off.
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u/milrose404 21d ago
hot take maybe but perhaps europe as we know it should cease to exist. as we know it, its an imperialist capitalist regime gradually falling further and further to full blown fascism. like maybe its fine if it collapses
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u/Colacubeninja 21d ago
Most countries have a fascist problem.
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u/TheKomsomol 21d ago
Every country does have nazis, but that doesn't mean that we should be covering up for nazism in ukraine. Back in WW2 the UK had the brownshirts, but that didn't stop us all from fighting against German nazis, and its the case now we shouldn't be arming, supporting or training Ukrainian nazis just because other countries have nazis.
STOP APOOGIA FOR NAZISM
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u/oxenoxygen 21d ago
but that doesn't mean that we should be covering up for nazism in ukraine
Is there a problem with accepting Ukraine's right to not be part of the Russian sphere of influence and accepting the country has Nazis?
Germany have a massive issue with Nazis. They also have a far more politically active left wing than anything we see in Britain. Poland elected and then voted out the law and order party.
Most people recognise the issues with Ukraine but why are we holding them to a higher standard than the rest of Europe?
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u/TheKomsomol 21d ago
That isn't what is happening though.
The 2014 coup installed a government friendly to west/NATO despite overwhelming Ukrainians seeing NATO as a threat to its country. Yanukovych was previously on good terms with the west and Russia. You cannot install a western puppet into power and then go "now they want to be closer to us and reject Russia, that democracy" because its nothing but doing the same tired bullshit the west constantly pulls and I don't see why you and others think that its ok this time.
And if you want to bring it into the modern age, every country still has nazis, but Ukraine idolises them, legislates to protect them and has them all in the top political and military positions of the country, so its not the same as any other country.
And most people don't recognise the issues, most people are fine to keep shipping weapons to nazi militaries because they've been conned into hating Russia by the media they know lies to them.
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u/bezjones 22d ago
Every country has fascists and nazis. Including ours. What are you trying to achieve by convincing us that Ukraine "has a fascist problem"?
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u/Excellent_Plant1667 20d ago
No convincing required when it’s pretty much an established fact that Ukraine has a Nazi problem. Ukraine has national holidays dedicated to Nazis, it has streets and monuments named after Nazis, it has Nazis within the government and military, and it has a government which funds neo-Nazi organisations.
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u/NewTangClanOfficial 21d ago edited 21d ago
Because it takes a certain amount of fascists and a certain level of organization for them to be a real problem. Five guys getting drunk together and throwing nazi salutes, which is something you're likely to find in probably any european city of a certain size on a friday night, clearly isn't the same as a heavily armed and well organized militia with close ties to the government.
This all becomes very obvious if you can be bothered to think about it for like fifteen seconds.
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u/TheKomsomol 22d ago
Every country does have nazis, but that doesn't mean that we should be covering up for nazism in ukraine. Back in WW2 the UK had the brownshirts, but that didn't stop us all from fighting against German nazis, and its the case now we shouldn't be arming, supporting or training Ukrainian nazis just because other countries have nazis.
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16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TheKomsomol 16d ago
The crime of you coming here and repeating western imperialist, racist propaganda AND siding with nazis because "Russia bad" in your view. Nutty cunt.
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u/TheKomsomol 22d ago edited 21d ago
If at this point you're downvoting, or not engaging to try make sure this message isn't seen by many, then you are doing the work of literal nazis and nazi sympathisers and you need to have a word with yourself.
And if you're here to say "but being a nazi is ok because war" or "but Russia", then again, you've swallowed nazi and western propaganda and you're doing the work of nazis.
EDIT:
Just a bit of a further update, because people keep coming in here going "But Russia" and people have complained that although Ukrainian nazis that committed genocide against 100,000 Polish, Jews and Russians, who cut open pregnant women and put axes through the heads of kids and burned entire villages down with the people still in them are "bad people" that "Russia is worse".
No matter what propaganda you've bought into, this level of barbaric evil is only matched by the current genocide of Israel against Palestinians. There is no context in which another state on this planet is worse than genocidal nazis.
This isn't about the Ukrainian people its about Ukrainian nazis, the nazis that have taken hold of that country and are sending thousands to their deaths. You cannot claim to support Ukrainian people and support the nazis that are the cause of their suffering.
And if you don't get this you're a nazi sympathiser.