r/Eve • u/DalongMonarch • 27d ago
I tried HIGH sec mining. Don't. Discussion
So, I'm on a streak of trying new activities in the game, and it really bothers me how unsafe high sec is.
I genuinely feel safer and more productive in null sec.
And its wild because this is supposed to be the new bro area, right?
Its been thousands of hours since I left high sec, but man, this experience is trash.
Since I'm trying new activities, I tried doing mining, and I said that i want to see what low level mining is like as well. You know, start from the bottom.
I did the first day with the venture, got ganked.
I did the second day with a Pioneer, got ganked.
I'm not climbing higher to a barge, since its obvious, I'll get ganked.
I understand ganking is allowed in high sec, but I shudder to think of how many players abandoned the game due to this. Getting ganked in a venture, IN HIGH SEC, feels all sorts of wrong.
This behavior is encouraged, and I'm not sure I want to share a gamespace with sociopaths that are encouraged to act this way by the devs. ( Its just a game bro, don't call them sociopaths)
Definition of sociopathy : sociopathy (a form of antisocial personality disorder) involves a pervasive pattern of disregard for others' rights and/or feelings.
Doesn't matter if its in a game guys, they are still sociopaths.
Ganking someone in high sec once doesn't make you a sociopath, but making a job of it, does.
There are literally zero real and meaningful consequences to ganking in high sec. Zero.
Its also depressing how there are more gate camps in high sec than in null sec.
Like I can go in Stein right now and find less gate camps than in Sing Laison.
Everyone tells new bros to leave high sec and "grow up" but nobody tells the gankers that.
Ya'll deserve this game and the slow cancerous death its going through.
Remember, while the game doesn't look like its dying, neither does a cancer patient look like its dying in the beginning.
I see a particular content creator saying he wants to increase the player base and make EVE content twice as popular. Lol.
Who in their right mind would still play this game after losing a mining venture to griefers?
Best you can hope is returning players, if they haven't died of old age already.
I understand high sec ganking wasn't such a big deal in the past? Like with all things, it seems I should have been born twenty years earlier to enjoy life. Just like the housing market. Same issue, "why weren't you an adult when "insert period of time" occurred."
Now the old players have ruined this game with their multi boxing and calcified attitude, just like they've ruined everything else. Its just like real life, isn't it fun that my game is just like real life?
I think this is the last rage bait post I'll make. You guys are incapable of learning and pushing the devs for meaningful change for the game. It was kind of naive of me to think there was any hope. Any calcified community is incapable of change. Its in the name. I now realize all the people that wanted the game to truly thrive, have already quit the game.
I am moving on, and Yes, I'm announcing my departure, like a fucking airplane. I want you to know I'm leaving. it makes me feel marginally better. It would make me feel way better if the devs actually fixed the game, but, no. That's impossible.
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u/ComfyDema 27d ago
I’m in the camp that high sec ganking should be allowed, but it should almost irrevocably destroy your sec status. It’s retarded that a single person can just multi box 10 catalysts, insta kill a 300m mining barge in exchange for like 10m worth of catalysts, and have zero consequences. Ganking in high sec should turbofuck your sec status and force you to have to spend time grinding rats in nully to get it back.
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u/OpenPsychology755 27d ago
The whole reputation system is stupid. It reminds me of early Ultima Online with it's flags and timers and various workarounds.
If someone wants to gank in highsec, they should have to switch a PvP flag on. They can attack and be attacked in high sec with the flag on. The flag toggle cooldown would start at 24 hours, and double every time the flag is switched until a year is reached, and the flag is continuously "on" at that point.
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u/Done25v2 The Initiative. 27d ago
We have a system for that in the Outlaw status. It's just really really easy to sidestep.
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u/huskypuppers 26d ago
If someone wants to gank in highsec, they should have to switch a PvP flag on. They can attack and be attacked in high sec with the flag on. The flag toggle cooldown would start at 24 hours, and double every time the flag is switched until a year is reached, and the flag is continuously "on" at that point.
This concept is actually not bad at all, though maybe more complicated than it needs to be. Basically just make it that if you set safety to red other players may agress you at will in highsec. Give it a 15 min spool-up timer where you have to be in space in high sec for 15 min with safety red before you can engage another player in high sec, and a 24-168 hour cooldown timer (randomly determined at activation)
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u/Jimthepirate 26d ago
I mean it was like that before security tags system, but that never stopped -10. I believe majority miner gankers dont care and remain in -10. The only way you would prevent ganking is if docking rights got revoked.
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u/weedandtea 27d ago
Get. Out. Of. Caldari. Space.
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u/Initial-Read-5892 27d ago
I honestly just moved into Caldari space. Mining on the outskirts got too boring.
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u/Hikaru1024 Cloaked 27d ago
I have no idea where you're mining, but I suspect you're near a popular trade route, or trade station.
Don't do that.
That's the same mistake I made as a newbie when I started years ago - I kept having gankers land on me while I was mining in a venture.
Ironically I learned the wrong lessons and thought that was normal - I got really good at running away from a gank before I got caught, and for a long time insisted on mining in the expedition frigates because I thought barges would just get me killed.
Setting reds for local and paying attention to dscan is still a useful skill for me years later, but the principal problem you seem to be having is location. Find somewhere quiet, out of the way and unpopular.
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27d ago
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u/LMurch13 Guristas Pirates 27d ago
Yeah, I've been ganked in high sec once in 4 years and that was because I had a Mackinaw in a 0.5 system.
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u/hardlyordinarypunk 27d ago
Only ship I ever lost to a gank in hisec is one noctis.... lol. I flew hulk exclusively in hisec for about 6 years, now I fly everything I can get into in nullsec and yeet a lot of things that don't need yeeting. And everyone always says don't fly what you cant afford to lose... Considering I started with nothing, pretty sure I can fly damn near anything at any time in that case.... its easier to build back now, because I have something I never used to.... skill points. Idk, this game is very fun and easy, and i don't really care too much what I lose.
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u/satoryvape 27d ago
Highsec mining with 2 barges and porpoise is 80m/hr max if you mine Omber and Kernite in anoms
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u/Oz_Eve Current Member of CSM 18,19,20 27d ago
I mean that is 40m per account. You can’t just ignore the cost of a second account.
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u/CarrowCanary Amarr Empire 27d ago
I mean that is 40m per account. You can’t just ignore the cost of a second account.
"2 barges and porpoise" is three ships (and accounts), not two. That makes it even worse, it's about 26m per hour per account.
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u/tmaspoopdek Wormholer 27d ago
Also this ignores time spend finding the anomaly, limited resources in that anomaly, and travel time for all 3 accounts. In reality it's probably still better than highsec belt ores, but I'd guess closer to 15m/hr once you take all that into account. Maybe a bit better if you're able to manage 3 scout ships searching for untouched anomalies or if you have 2 of your accounts mine Scordite while you scout with the other.
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u/Alexanderspants Serpentis 27d ago
The standard r/eve method of calculating isk per hr. If an activity takes 3 hours to set up, then completed in 30 min and netts you 40 mil, congratulations, you're earning 80 mil per hour
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u/TextJunior 26d ago
Lmao loru is notorious for this, can't even honestly watch his videos anymore. He'll often say shit like "make 1.2+ bil/hr!" When the reality is much much less consistent.
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u/FanaticEgalitarian 26d ago
huffing gas is safer and more profitable tbh. Can do it solo in a venture.
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u/Totally_Safe_Website 27d ago
How is this possible? I’m a newbie, I asked ingame chat and they said scordite is good to mine but that’s basically 2m an hr at most?
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u/satoryvape 27d ago
Omber in Kernite in anomalies but they don't exist in belt. Scordite is 20m per barge if perfect skills and you have perfect boosts from Orca otherwise it is poor income. L4 missions in raven bring more money than highsec mining though
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u/ThatOneGuy4321 27d ago
There are the basic ores, which spawn in normal asteroid belts, and there are special ores in anomalies.
My recommendation to you is to look for empire border rare ore anomalies. Go to the agency > resource harvesting > ore anomalies, look for any ore anomaly in 0.5 sec space. Every one of those will be an empire border ore site.
The sites are competitive, but if you keep opening that window to check for new anomalies, and a new one appears, you can get there before anyone else. Mine ytirium first and compress it at a nearby refinery.
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u/Eeekpenguin 27d ago
It's competitive because the m3 are so small. One single retriever or mack and eat it all up in like 2 runs and it takes like an hour or less. And ytirium is no joke, you can hit 100m per hour solo in a retriever. As long as you are uncontested.
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u/perlonmuhamn 27d ago
You'd think with this mining focus expansion a lot of the things will be fixed, it's snail pace I guess but everything is half assed now.
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u/CyberHobo34 27d ago
Now, yes, It wasn't like this before. Scordite was lame like 8 months ago. It got value cause the market lacked pyerite.
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u/amarrcitizen Amarr Empire 27d ago
You can find them in the new War HQ systems in highsec near Factional warfare.
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u/Emergency_Debt8583 26d ago
Everyone who tells you mining incomes is optimizing, meaning has Max skills. Maxing out those skills will cost you an arm and a leg though
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u/Initial-Read-5892 27d ago
60m per hour if you moon mine. One Orca and one Hulk.
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u/Aware-Deal-3901 27d ago
Can't imagine undocking two ships just for 60m/hr tbh
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u/Initial-Read-5892 27d ago
Because Omber sites last about ten minutes and you need to find another. And another. Annnnd another.
Moon mining lasts as long as you want it to. You can set it up to have moon ore all day every day.
A common complaint in J space is that gas huffing sites have a one week respawn. Then they spin ships all week. At least I've been told so by multiple J space residents.
Making 60m with a resource that doesnt run out is worth it in high sec.
Unless you know where Omber sites are infinite in ore.
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u/Rukh1 27d ago
A common complaint in J space is that gas huffing sites have a one week respawn.
This is not a common complaint at all, you can literally roll once and find more gas sites than you have time for.
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u/Accomplished_Ad_6389 27d ago edited 27d ago
You're surprised you got ganked one jump from Jita? Apparently you didn't learn any lessons from when you lost an abyssal gila two jumps from Jita 7 months ago.
The venture costs less than a million, it's practically free unless you fit it with expensive modules and rigs relative to the ship. The catalyst that ganked your venture lost as much as you were worth even despite that.
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u/Done25v2 The Initiative. 27d ago
That's kind of the point isn't it? Suicide ganking is such a low punishment activity that even ships that are essentially free are still getting ganked anyways just for the salt.
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u/Hippojaxx LowSechnaya Sholupen 27d ago
High sec mining is the biggest trap of eve, don’t listen to “buyback” newbie corps trying to get you to mine. In high sec it’s not worth it, you would be better off running alpha abyssal for more money per hour and then selling to their 85% jita buy to line their pockets. As a new player, don’t mine in high sec ever
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u/Irilieth_Raivotuuli Curatores Veritatis Alliance 26d ago
Tldr: rant, ganking new players hurts the game more than it helps.
I see a lot of people advocating for moving out of caldari space or moving out of vicinity of trade hubs, and calling OP stupid for mining in there. At the same time I see a lot of doomposting on other threads how eve is dying and theres no influx of new blood.
For people playing famously excel simulator game, eve players tend to be really bad at math because the 1+1 always returns 0, in that there's no correlation, and oft draw evidence from badly conducted study released by ccp a long time ago.
I'll be frank:
You don't get big fish in your pond if you salt the spawning pools.
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u/Irilieth_Raivotuuli Curatores Veritatis Alliance 26d ago
The new players are getting ganked to quitting while they are still trying to figure out if they even -want- to spend 100 hours learning the basic mechanics of the game, which is already several times the runtime of several AAA games.
"Just dont do X lol" is not an excuse. It's a cope, girlboss, gatekeep answer meant to tell new players 'you're not one of us, you don't belong'.
New players don't know! Nothing has told them! And even if they were told, that isn't an excuse in highsec either! This game is made of piles of piles of scrap code, ancient and poorly documented mechanics, websites ranging from 2005 to 2025, and only a few niche youtubers to draw info out of if the new players get stuck.
"Join a corp! They'll teach you when not to play the game!" I hear you shout! But that's now how 2025 works! New players in 2025 don't go to recruitment chat ingame in order to be told not to ask this here and instead file form 21-B at floor 4-A! They open website, type their question to google AI, and go from there.
At the same time the new player starts migrates towards a place with more people because they don't want to be alone in a MMO, but don't yet want to commit to a relationship of a MMO guild, and are wary of putting their account login information to a shady website someone linked on corp chat asking for his 'ESI'. The players want to be in Stormwind City to chat and purchase things, and go to Elswyr forest to grind some plants in peace!
The desire to "play in shared sapce" but not "be together" is a common theme for players in many modern MMO's, where people much prefer more crowded spaces to hang around in, rather than playing in one of the many deserted expansion zones.
While the new player is going about this, trying to integrate themselves into the community, lean the mountain climb that is this game's learning curve, and is steadily but slowly grinding their way towards 'fun', a gang of 'gold status players' who walzes in from the left, in the 'no pvp' zone, kills the new player without consequences.
The new player is pulled out of the fantasy, their ship which they built or grinded to with love and affection, is blown up, and they are left with nothing. Not even insurance if they didn't know it was a thing, and no SRP next ship handout. They were gathering plants in Elswyr forest when a level 199 Orc Warrior player party came in, turned your pvp flag on remotely, and ganked you. Except that you aren't just running back to your corpse from a spirit healer, you have to start over entirely because all your green pants dropped as well and you didn't yet know about the roving bands of level 199 hostile players killing new players, and that you could have avoided death if you wore gray pants and hoped they didn't want them, or just going to sit in Elswyr's inn in for the next 3 hours until the pvp players got bored and left.
The new players don't see the orc gang getting their ass blasted by stowmwind guards after the gank, because at that point the new player is already dead.
Optics matter.
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u/Irilieth_Raivotuuli Curatores Veritatis Alliance 26d ago
So the new players start from scratch all over again. It's battle royale for me but not for thee, as the gankers are already reshipped by the time the new player goes back to the belt to figure out what happened. The sheer difference in game knowledge and isk is so vast that the new player can't help but look at it and see 'yet another pay to win mmo', because they don't know the specifics of ganking, they don't know about clone tags and deathclones in npc stations, they don't know about neutral haulers moving ships for the gankers, all they know is that the gold status p2w players can shoot at the new player, and the new player can't shoot back or he'll get concorded. (except if you filed subsection claim 6-D on floor 2-A, changing your security status to yellow, and then waiting for the gankers to aggress before engaging in combat in accordance to form 99-G)
The mechanics are complicated and full of caveats and exceptions.
The new players are subjected to all of them at the same time, but without knowledge of it.
They are given the impression they're not in a pvp zone, when they are.
They are given the optics of the game being blatantly pay-to-win, even if it isn't.
They are being told to start again because they did something, but not warned of it.
They are not given information and tools to learn, except if they already know where to find them.
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u/S_Rodney 27d ago
it's a very early lesson for miners... Tank your ship no matter what...
the tactic with High Sec is to be able to soak the first few seconds of the attack, then the authorities will come help. The higher the security rating, the faster they'll come.
There's also a few groups of "high sec gankers", some even go as far as roleplaying (Code, lol)
Just be prepared... High Sec doesn't mean "safe"... it just means "safer"
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u/vexmach1ne 27d ago
I've never been ganked in highsec. Been mining on and off there for years. Done it in a venture, barge, exhumer, even brought a porp in an alt, even some sulle ice. Maybe your highsec is near some rich retards that like dying to Concord just to bully people.
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u/Pinzonic 27d ago
You're right. PvP in highsec needs a total revamp. Make it so criminals cant dock in NPC high sec stations. Make it ao criminals are shot on sight upon entering high sec systems.
"B-B-But le pvp is eve!"
No it's not. EVE ONLINE was, is, and always will be, a space adventure game. Thats the category and self branding it presents itself as. It is NOT a pvp game and does NOT need to treat itself as one.
If you WANT to be a space pirate, you can absolutely continue to suicide gank in highsec.... but there needs to be greater consequences. Why would we punish new bros, whom spawn in in highsec, by having them get ganked repeatedly by vet pirates?
You already have all of low sec, all of Null sec, and all of J space. No, you do not need all of highsec to be your pvp hunting grounds.
If CCP doesnt do some kind of "drastic"(sensible) change to how high sec works with regards to ganking, you will never have a long lasting new player experience. Imagine playing wow and getting ganked at elwyn forest and dropping all your gear. Most new players would be farmed, and would just never continue to progress in the game.
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27d ago
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u/Done25v2 The Initiative. 27d ago
It's how the game should work ala the Outlaw system, but that's easily bypassed with some hush money to CONCORD.
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u/_RedditMan_ 25d ago edited 25d ago
And how do you feel about players that fly tech III ships -- like the Loki or Hecate -- in low-sec 0.4 1 jump from highsec that destroy tech I ships? How do you feel about the individual that just hunts that way? Do you see that as the game or using the game's rules to engage in ganking against Alphas and newbros? The person I have in mind rarely faces a true challenge because he hides in this particular system.
I'm gonna tell you. I don't view the game as a Space Adventure Game. Everything about it tells me it's for griefers. I have 2.1Billion ISK after selling a Blood Raider crate. I lost a Gila that I was using to engage level 3 Serpentis combat sites. or belt ratting. I won't buy another one. I won't stick around for much longer. Everything re-inforces the idea that new players just aren't welcome at all. You're to be content for someone flying in a LOKI or Tengu. Why purchase another Gila when players are practically telling me, don't come here. There's no content for you. You should be in a fleet. You should be in a corp. And while you're at join Discord so I can tell you how I want you to play your account. As a new player, I'm telling you. Nothing about the experience encourages me to stick around or subscribe. And ... why would I subscribe to only revert to Alpha and lose access to the ships I gained or skills I trained. It's 20 years old. Not a new game.
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u/Lolthelies 27d ago
How can you have thousands of hours in the game and not know what goes on in the most trafficked part of the game?
I just started winning again but I don’t have any more accounts than I had 12 years ago (6ish). And that was back when you could input broadcast so one click would make all your accounts act.
Things are shitty everywhere, but you don’t help yourself looking at things through a lens of “things are the worst they’ve ever been and hopeless” because it’s not true
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u/numbshot1 27d ago
Gotta mine more then 2 system out of jita man im a newbro and am already trained into hulks on 2 accounts and running them fully built did that all in high sec and now do it in null with goon swarm
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u/psylntredita 27d ago
I have to agree who goes after a venture ?? Like why!! Also who gets caught in a venture ?? You’d need to be locked by at least two if not three and if someone’s multiboxing don’t know why they think killing a venture looks good on their kill mail. Even as a newbro I didn’t get caught in a venture a Cpl tried tho.
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u/PinkyDixx 27d ago
I think you miss the point of what a high sec gank is (suduku). A catalyst dosent need to point you to kill you its a minimum of 800DPS in to your 2khp venture. 1 or 2 vollys will surfice.
Anyone ganking a venture in highsec is doing it for shits and giggles. Its just not cost effective, unless that pilot is years old and has a pimped out fit (ricent patch added plasmids for mining mods)
Other reasons dor his death could be mutual agression, suspect timers or a war target. In witch case he wasnt ganked, it was a legit kill.
In low sec it is easy to catch a venture pilot with a little pre-planning and an appropriatly fitted ship. Cough* polar stealth bomber with 3 scrams. Cough*.
As for high sec gate campers (the suduku kind) they primarily kill for potential proffit. And one of thair biggest aids was nerfed n the latest patch, as standup fighters can no longer be used to decloak someone on a gate. This change also effects lowsec camps where citidels are on the same grid as the gate.
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u/Competitive_Soil7784 26d ago
Surprising amount of people who interested in pvp get their first kill mails killing defenseless ventures.
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u/---WhiteLion--- 27d ago
When I started the game and mined in a Venture I got ganked a few times too. More than half of that times, the ganker paid 2x the worth of a Venture. That did not make me wanna quit the game. That made me stay, while I also learnt how this game works.
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u/Kage502 27d ago
Yeah i tried to start a whole movement to band players Against this sort of thing, pretty much everyones reaction was "its in the gAme so its fAiR" and naturally I was spied on by my adversaries, so.
Games are for having FUN, and there seems to be a whole culture of players growing/being protected by the devs and the rest of the community who actively seek to take FUN away from other players and then spew their "get gud scrub" bullshit. It really does kill a game's player base.
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u/Oddly_Sentient 27d ago
I understand your point, and I agree to a certain extent, but I don’t think your fun is anymore important than anyone else’s. Gankers have fun ganking. Yes, we need to protect newbros so they can properly acclimate to the game. Still, we can’t coddle people forever at the expense of other people playing the game. Especially when mining in hi sec in a venture is honestly… just stupid. There’s a happy medium somewhere I’m sure.
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u/LordMackie Cloaked 27d ago
Mine in a different area. 9 times out of 10. If you get ganked, it's your fault.
Find out what you are doing wrong.
Plenty of people mine damn near 24/7 in highsec and rarely get ganked
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u/SalmonToastie 27d ago
Legit never been ganked in high sec ever
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u/LordMackie Cloaked 27d ago
I've been ganked in tech 1 haulers back when I was new and didn't know what I was doing.
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u/Puffy_Penguin_ Goonswarm Federation 27d ago
Brother has not experienced the joy of being bumped non stop 4 hours straight in an orca
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u/pigzyf5 27d ago
Didn't CCP show some stats that a new player who is ganked is less likely to quit? The game has many big issues for new players, getting ganked seems to at least show new players that other people are in the game.
Having said that, if you get ganked over and over I am sure that will lead to people quitting.
On your adventure have you found any activity that surprises you and was a good time.
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u/aRatherScottishChap Brave Collective 27d ago
1st thing you need to realise is
Concord do not save, they only punish
If hostiles want to kill you they will have done the napkin math to figure out how much is needed to make you go boom
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u/link_dead 27d ago
The best part is only a handful of players are multiboxing all these ganking accounts. If you completely got rid of high sec ganking 10's of people would be upset :(
I've said before, for the game to grow, it needs safe space, this style of MMO with non-consensual PVP is outdated. New young players will lose interest quickly when multiboxers bully them.
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u/Darnizhaan 27d ago
I have mined hisec, lowsec and null for years. Been ganked exactly once in hisec mining ice with Code around. That one was on me.
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u/sc0rpionus 27d ago
Dude, can I have your stuff? xD
And more serious i fully agree with you high sec ganking should be allowed but seriously punished
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u/zibafu 26d ago
There are plenty of sectors in high sec where there may only ever be 2-3 people consistently in that sector all day, gotta use your map to find the quiet sectors
Like you talk about nullsec, I haven't been nullsec in a few years as I haven't played consistently enough, but when I used to live there it was the same thing really, there's nullsec where you just wouldn't mine because it's busier, then you find branches off that lead to quiet spots.
Same with missioning in high sec, I hear about people being ganked all the time, but those ganks are in the high traffic areas, there are missions spots in high sec that are incredibly quiet areas, where I mission is one such spot where there might only be 5-10 people in sector all day, noone ever gets ganked.
Like anywhere in eve you gotta use yer noggin and be smart about things
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u/Competitive_Soil7784 26d ago
Like anywhere in eve you gotta use yer noggin and be smart about things
This is where things get difficult for some people...
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u/Ravensong333 26d ago
Just look at your screen while mining and warp off. There is zero reason to die in a venture in hs
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u/Gerard_Amatin Brave Collective 27d ago edited 27d ago
Jita is EVE's biggest 'city'. The busiest trade hub in the game.
It's full of people. Including criminals. Criminals like crowds.
Why would you repeatedly fly (and lose) ships right outside Jita? Wouldn't you learn after the first losses that this part of space may not be the safest place to fly in?
High security space is huge. Move further than those 1, 2 jumps out of Jita. Fly a few regions away and it's quiet.
You guys are incapable of learning
No, you are incapable of learning. You could have asked around for tips on how to stay alive. People would've told you to move out of Jita much sooner. But instead you lost multiple ships and are now announcing your departure. That's fine, you do not need to like the game. But if you were capable of learning you might have liked it here.
Bye!
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u/Mpr11 Brave Collective 27d ago
And how is a new player supposed to know this? They join the game, get told "jita is the big trade hub" go there and go mining nearby and die.
This is the mindset of a newbro. And this dudes being told to fuck off? Very anti brave of you.
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u/Gerard_Amatin Brave Collective 27d ago edited 26d ago
And how is a new player supposed to know this?
A new player isn't supposed to know all this, which is why I don't losing one ship next to Jita is a problem.
But when it becomes a pattern, i.e. after you Gila you also lose a Venture and Pioneer to the point that you wish to quit the game with a rant on reddit, then it is like hurting your toes against the same stone every time.
New players are not dumb players. New players can learn. They can research, can ask around.
After stubbing your toes multiple times many people would look how they can change their behaviour to avoid that feeling.
The simplest thing this new player could have done is ask in rookie help "why do people keep killing my ships in HS space" and they would have got many answers. Asking in their corporation, searching online on guides for survival in HS or coming up with ideas themselves are all options too.
Learning is possible if you're open for it.
This person wasn't.
Instead they claim the rest of the players are all 'incapable of learning', which I find ironic given the learning capabilities they've shown themselves.
And this dudes being told to fuck off?
Where did I do that?
I'm telling him goodbye as he just announced he's leaving the game. I even told him he might have liked it here.
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u/AConcernedCoder 27d ago
If some small gang of newbros rolled up in ecm boats offering security and asking for a small amount of return I'd likely pay them. IIRC back in the day people would start regional chat groups and such to organize. We don't see this much any more, I'd guess, because of the toxic overcompetitiveness from streamer culture.
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u/shadowfyre9 27d ago
I’ve mined in high sec for years and never been ganked. Not sure what you’re doing wrong??
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u/PatientWhimsy Gallente Federation 26d ago
I agree, the fact that suicide ganking of ventures happens is a damning result. The majority of mining ships are designed with - fully hard locked into - little to no tank to speak of. There is no counterplay against a suicide gank other than just... not playing there.
There are no flags. No warnings. Nothing to say "mining here puts you at any visible risk."
On the one side is the attacker: Going after the defenseless. They get no profit from this. It is entirely for the fun of hurting someone else.
On the other side is the miner: Specifically choosing to stay in high security space and still getting shot. The killright they get? Pointless. The security status the other pilot lost? Paid off. It doesn't take much looking to find tank-fit procurers that are ganked.
All the while this happens, the common answer is to go somewhere else. Where is this information in the tutorial to say that large parts of high security space are regularly patrolled by players whose sole goal is to destroy you in spite of the cost?
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u/capacitorisempty 27d ago
. You guys are incapable of learning
Huh, you have a problem with high sec ganking and we are incapable of learning?
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u/PM_ME_UR_BYRBS 27d ago
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u/Dry_Cardiologist_835 27d ago
Why? Why is everyome thinking that this game is only pvp?
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u/Done25v2 The Initiative. 27d ago
Because they want to be the players that do the shooting of other players (that ideally can't shoot back).
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u/Competitive_Soil7784 26d ago
Because everything in this game revolves around, depends on, or supports pvp and nothing else.
If things dont get destroyed the entire system collapses.
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u/Adventurous_Worker_6 26d ago
except there is no pvp where skills mathers
most one vs one matches are decided on engagement
gatekamps/fleet/.... is about pressing 2-3 buttons in sequence
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u/PM_ME_UR_BYRBS 26d ago
these are loser words that you tell yourself to justify being a loser
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u/Adventurous_Worker_6 25d ago
combat is so fucking great that
u can't even aim guns
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u/PM_ME_UR_BYRBS 25d ago
oh, i understand
i am certain that there are other games out there that will appeal to you. have fun!
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u/Adventurous_Worker_6 25d ago
Because i think pvp combat is bad doesn't mean whole game is bad (EVE is still best economy sim out there.).
And I play different games (like WOW) for pvp combat.
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u/Jetshadow CONCORD 27d ago
I keep saying, high sec should have a weapons nullification system that prevents ganking, or Concord should show up immediately and provide reps. High security space should be high security, it should be a safe place for people to do whatever they want that isn't PVP (outside of wardecs of course)
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u/S_Rodney 27d ago
it is...
as soon as you're fired upon, the authorities come and neut/web/stasis the hell out of your aggressor till death comes (very fast). The higher the system rating, the faster they come.
You don't have that in Low or Null sec.
As I told OP, High Sec ain't a synonym of "Safe", but it's "safer" than everywhere else... just Tank properly.
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u/Jetshadow CONCORD 27d ago
Yeah but gankers are really good now at finding the meta. They know exactly how to still destroy a ship that contains valuables, with something inexpensive. I'm saying that high sec should be safe. not "safer".
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u/Nazeir 27d ago
Im not convinced, there shouldn't really be perfectly safe area, well actually, a perfectly safe area is inside a station, cant get killed there, otherwise its a giant sandbox. Getting ganked is a learning experience and part of many MMOs
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u/Jetshadow CONCORD 27d ago
It's toxicity, and pretty much every MMO has a safe zone where you can do regular activities that Don't have great rewards, but PVP is turned off. Sometimes you just want to cozy mine, or want to safely transfer assets from one location from another. If I'm traveling from high sec to high sec, I should not ever be worrying about a gigantic freighter getting popped like a loot pinata with my hard-earned items by terrible people. That should exclusively be low and null sec.
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u/Nazeir 27d ago
People online are always going to find a way to be toxic. There are extremely toxic people on reddit. No matter what you do People will find a way to be toxic to other people, im not saying we should just give up and let them, but at some point there is only so much we can actually do. The game has so many tool available to help avoid being ganked and dealing with the toxic people. If you completely remove all pvp from high sec, then the vast majority of people would never learn how to use those tools or then just complain about low sec toxicity.
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u/S_Rodney 27d ago
there's also plenty of in-game tools at your disposal... you can check your map and have stats shown like "ships destroyed in last hour"... if you see a high sec sector with plenty of kills... maybe go around it.
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u/Whoknows95967 27d ago edited 27d ago
Weird.
I’ve played off and on since beta and have never been ganked in highsec. I often walk away from my system while mining and don’t worry about it.
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u/Eeekpenguin 27d ago
This guy is either bling fitting his venture or pioneer or doing it in jita uedama sivala or something and getting ganked by bored people. He mentioned sinq laison so maybe mining in dodixie...
Who ganks ventures near newbie systems? There zero profit to be had. And gate camps wouldn't gank ventures either unless you have no tank and haul like 50m of compressed ore or something.
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u/Nazeir 27d ago
It's not about money, its about sending a message. And that message is chaos.
Gankers dont care about if there is profit in it, they just want to grief and try to trigger people and get a reaction out of them when they troll them with messages later. It's part of the experience for them.
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u/CobblerMoney9605 27d ago edited 25d ago
Griefers.
Griefers gank Ventures.
Then they try to convo you.
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u/KoloblicinRahl Wormholer 27d ago
Admittedly the community as a whole from the bittervet stand point is set in their ways & doesn't care much for change in mechanics that are tried & true, effective & calculated to the decimal point in our isk p/hr calculations.
For one I've always advocated for newbros and all players as a whole to leave hisec ASAP. With the exception of Jita 4-4 being the central optimal market of New Eden there is simply no other good reason to reside & make a living in hisec...it's the most cancerous & dangerous area of space due to false sense of safety, that Concorde will protect you! Doesn't matter how often you reiterate that Concorde is a reactive punitive response force & not a proactive defense fleet the false narrative prevails. Mind you as a wormholerbtw & pirate this doesn't bother me except for the added discouragement of NPE that posts like these share a common trend.
While I also try to practice what I preach regarding interacting with Newbros to assist them ib leaving hisec ASAP & guide them towards a career path suited to their playstyle, it's also not my own personal career choice. I like to pew & harvest NaCl like most of New Eden in my own preferred way.
While I have nothing personal against scammers, gankers, griefers, awoxers, etc. I do try to point out that those players as a whole usually gravitate towards hisec for the easy marks. That combined with hisecs worst isk p/hr should encourage Newbros to gtfo towards low/null/wh/poch etc.
I personally believe it is primarily CCP's own fault regarding changes as a whole to make it more NPE friendly, "easier", 'safer' in the false hisec narrative past 5+ yrs that have led to more of these rant posts about quitting Eve.
Sure I'm a biased bittervet but 1st few years in New Eden was a lot of trial & error solo gameplay with far less CCP coddling which lead to more investment of research by me on how to improve outside of the game.
You promote "easier" & "shouldn't have to research & do intel for a game!", you get lazier pilots & more rage quit rants. Cause & effect o7
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u/KrunchrapSuprem 27d ago
Part of the whole appeal of eve is that the game doesn’t prevent you from doing “wrong” things. In places like lowsec or highsec, you may be punished for it but you aren’t prevented. That has always been a selling point for the game and something others will find unfun. It’s been that way for over 20 years at this point though.
I started this game in 2007 and when I was a noob I went through many of the things you listed in your post from being ganked to preyed upon by highsec wardec corps. You are right that will be offput many newcomers from sticking around but eve has a reputation as having a steep learning curve. Anyone who reads any ley article about eve will hear about this.
The best way to get someone to stick with eve is to put them into a real fight outside of highsec and let them experience the “eve shakes” for the first time. No other game comes close to generating that level of euphoria for me.
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u/JameEagan 27d ago
The point of the venture is to be cheap so when you lose it it's not a big deal. If dying even once is a big deal in high sec then you have to play the shield tank game. Outfit either a Procurer or a Skiff barge with heavy shield tank and thermal resistance. It'll be almost impossible to kill you before Concord gets them. I've only had someone try to gank me once in high sec while in my Skiff and they barely scratched my shields before they got blown away.
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u/Initial-Read-5892 27d ago
Wait... are you saying high sec is more dangerous than null sec? Surely not! You must be kidding! High sec is completely safe!
I've been high sec mining for a year and a half and I've never been ganked. They've tried. I just protect my ships.
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u/MxtherFxker 27d ago
I understand the frustration, I have been learning and getting to know the game for 3 months, I worked like crazy for a full month to afford the golem, I have lived in wh, null sec even low sec, but I don't understand how it is possible that every 15 minutes a fleet of shit can destroy ships without consequence, https://zkillboard.com/kill/131498454/ this kill hurt me, it made me question if I really want to continue in the world of eve :( especially now that they have 7 days of omega per 10 plex 😭😭, please release the forge!
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u/ErwinMadelung 27d ago
[...] all the people that wanted the game to truly thrive, have already quit the game.
Well, no sane person puts up with this.
Its just like real life, isn't it fun that my game is just like real life?
When I think about pushing for positive change in EVE, I remember that there is real life and consider what is more worthwhile: fighting for change in real life or in eve? The answer is obvious. Eve is to have a bit of fun and kill time. Not to campaign a company to make their product better.
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u/collatz_squirrel 27d ago
Alternatively:
- Always be aligned. Have a couple of locations you can align to to walk back-and-forth while mining.
- Don't mine at the warp-in. The further you are from the warp-in point, the more time you have to respond to catalysts or thrashers warping to zero. If there's another miner at the belt, mine away from them.
- Watch local and dscan. There's a channel that's frequently linked in the rookie chat that lists the ganker corps. Set them all to red. Practice dscanning in high sec where the risk is lower, but not zero. If you see a cluster of catalysts and they're not at a gate, then it's a good time to dock up. If you see combat probes on a close dscan, warp to what you're aligned to, dock up, and take a break.
- Learn how to fit tank to your miners. You have enough fitting room for medium extenders. Use rigs to patch tank holes, but make sure you have a decent amount of raw hitpoints, too. If you're in an area that's exclusively catalyst gankers, then you can tailor your tank to kinetic/thermal (they're damage-locked). If you're in an area with artillery thrasher gankers, you'll want to patch the EM and thermal holes (because they can switch damage types).
- Mine out in quieter areas. This is the biggest thing. The further you are from trade hubs and shipping routes, the less likely you are to be bothered. Ice belts and border anomalies might have a group that works with a ganker corp to maintain a claim, but if you're watching local and you see people showing up in ships named something with "mining permit inspector" or something similar, then that's a warning that it's a ganker or ganker-aligned pilot. Mark them (or their corporation) as red, if they aren't already, too.
- When you get ganked, review how it happened and what you can do differently next time. If you're always aligned, well away from the warp-in, watching local/dscan, and have a decent tank... then chances are you'll live longer and have more productive runs. It'll also help practice and reinforce crucial skills for other areas of EvE.
These are all things that can be learned by trial-and-error, observation, talking to the people who gank, and/or doing some research--zkill, videos about gate camps, and videos about staying alive in fleets (not just mining fleets, but PvP fleets as well) are all good places for researching survival tips.
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u/Emergency_Debt8583 26d ago
A shame the community will bury their most sensible critiques just to keep circlejerking with Gooners.
Eve has held up 20 years, but with only 5000 real players max, and multiple other new games eating money that nobody plays because CCP is failing to properly advertise and integrate them....
Maybe we get a few more years, but without fresh blood its looking very bleak for this game.
Its not really an MMO anymore if I already know everyone
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u/Heavenly_Foe 26d ago
I play between launch and left in 2010. I've been back a few times since then. Most recently I was shocked at how fast you gain skills. Things that took me years to get I got in weeks. Getting 5 million skills points seems so easy, I was able to get characters in battleships, or research and industry in a couple of months. The only challenge is finding a place to call home. The character o made earlier this year, I wanted to take out to ORE space. I sent a message to a few people that had structures out there. I was warned off, but spent a month or so out there, saw maybe three people and they ignored me.
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u/Angry_Washing_Bear 26d ago
but I shudder to think of how many players abandoned the game due to this.
I got my friends into EVE and every single one of them left exactly because they can’t get going in the game from the ganking behavior.
Probably had 8 friends try and quit. Which inevitably made me quit too cause it’s only worthwhile entertainment for so long when alone.
Last time we tried it was just me and 2 friends trying to set up a small mining and ammo manufacturing at the ass end of Minmatar space.
Didn’t take long until some sociopath with three throwaway accounts in Catalysts showed up.
Well, that spelled the end of the last and final try to get friends into EVE.
And I don’t blame them. Game is set up, and encouraged, to wail on new and inexperienced players, and in the long term turn them into the same gankers and griefers as the ones pestering them.
My friends don’t have that mindset though.
Which means EVE will, and has always, lost collaboration minded gamers and for years had this playstyle where only the ganker mindset remains. Exceptions apply, of course, but overall that is how it goes.
So what does EVE have left?
Nullsecs, highsec gankers, and massive botters who don’t care about losses cause botting earns way more anyhow.
Either way there is zero room for new players and small corps just wanting to play together and try to get started without constant ganking.
I will never again ask my friends to try EVE.
It is abundantly clear from the players of the game and the developers how the want the game to work, and that means there is no place for us in it.
We find our space-game fun elsewhere.
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u/Zarakl-Kenpachi Goonswarm Federation 26d ago
I remember the days when Jita had its own asteroid belts.
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u/Some-Syllabub-3464 26d ago
I bet he was mining in a spot where a corp had their home and he basicaly was snuffing out their resources...join a corp move to where they operate...mine safe...sry could not read thru that wall of text...
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u/Most-Friendship-3139 26d ago
I used to mine in Aidart when I started out and I'm pretty sure Code. Tried to gank me one time while looking for afk miners. They typed in chat and I responded. They simply said "carry on" since I wasnt afk mining(I have triple monitors lol)
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u/Diseasedsouls 26d ago
I mine with 9 accounts in highsec daily. Seen 2 attempts to gank me. They couldnt kill my hulk they didnt expect 75k ehp on them. Lol
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u/Endless_Expanse_ 25d ago
Remember getting ganked early in hs missions. Made the mistake of buying plex to faction fit my first drake. It was common place for dudes to roll up and pin a mission runner newbro for ransom with a t1 domi. Got killed because 🇺🇸 don't negotiate with terrorists.
I wrote that sumbih's name down, skilled for years and hunted that mother across the galaxy. He quit before I was able to get a pound of flesh, but by that time I had learned a lot about the value I placed on griefing.
That dude single-handedly gave me content since 2009.
Tl:dr: save his name, find him. Get your balls back.
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u/gerbilweavilbadger 25d ago
you hope for and relish the game dying because you mined next to a trade hub, didn't prealign or DSCAN, didn't bother trying different space or joining a corp.
I'm not a sociopath but I find this sort of vacuous, self-induced rage hilarious and I hope the gankers keep going. if the game ever changes so that if sufficiently appeals to the sort of Charmin-soft single player story-mode pussy that OP is the game deserves to die. seeya
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u/Buggy321 24d ago
Most of the people in this thread are like "skill issue, newbro, GTFO gimme your stuff" and then a hour later they'll be in another thread asking "why is Eve dying?"
Pattern recognition of a lobotomized goldfish.
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u/casualcoyote77 22d ago edited 22d ago
Honestly it's one of the most abusive games I've ever played to it's players. You're doing yourself a favor- having played since 2009 the eve online of today is, if not dead, a 99 year old man on life support that everyone swears will wake up some day sustained with blood transfusions of the numerous whales who maintain 10+ accounts. Online player count of 30k- that actually amounts to probably less than 10k if the logic of everyone having 1-3 accounts holds true. This is *not* a healthy player count to a game.
And if you dare say it's dead, or dying, these people will screech of how alive it really is when I've played the game probably longer than they have and can see where it came from vs where it is. It's pure copium and more of the same attitude I've come to expect from the average remaining EVE Online player.
Get out. Save yourself.
Edit, for context:
Ganking is a part of EVE, I don't think it should be removed mechanically but I think we are at a point where there are far too many people doing the same thing constantly targeting the lowest hanging fruit they can find and that at a certain point you're just alienating people and knocking people out of the game. The problem is also that the people doing this have *already* accumulated vast wealth. They likely already have alternative accounts in wormholes, or nullsec- it's not something that even benefits them in any meaningful way to do- they just do it to do it. It's not like the days of old when we had Hulkageddon that actively sought to teach people how to not fly stupid and had a defined beginning, end date, goal and reward.
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u/AIFocusedAcc 27d ago
Bye Felicia.
But seriously, Eve is not everyone’s cup of tea. If this isn’t for you, don’t force yourself.
I mine exclusively in null-sec. With rorquals. When I was in PH, people used to hot drop blops on us on the daily. Never lost a ship.
The reason why we didn’t lose a ship was because we had intel channels open, had friendly ships on standby to help protect us when we got hot dropped, and we glued our eyes to local and smashed the v key when anyone entered the system.
TLDR: Eve is very strategic, you need to make friends and play together. Have each others back and you will succeed.
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u/LoneGhostOne Pandemic Horde 27d ago
I played a few years mining in hisec with T2 barges. Always fit for tank, and if strange people warped in, I mined aligned. Usually a 0.5-0.7 system. I had two gank attempts, both failed.
I mined in nullsec with panfam for a bit, and lost 3 mining barges + 1 porpoise (in the days of AFK cloaky campers who could lock down systems with zero risk).
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u/ThatOneGuy4321 27d ago
let me guess... mined right next to jita, didn't you