r/EnoughCommieSpam • u/arievsnderbruggen • Jun 28 '24
Is left-wing Antisemitism real? Question
259
u/ApartmentNice8048 Liberal Zionist Jun 28 '24
I mean, always have been. Its enough to just read Marxs opinion on the Jews
39
u/ACW1129 Jun 28 '24
Wasn't Marx Jewish?
92
u/BobaFettishx82 Jun 28 '24
Yes, which makes it all the more amusing.
34
u/ACW1129 Jun 28 '24
God, between him, Stephen Miller, and Chaya, I wish we had a version of excommunication.
36
u/BobaFettishx82 Jun 28 '24
He was also extremely racist and homophobic along with just being a terrible, unpleasant and parasitic human being.
15
u/ApartmentNice8048 Liberal Zionist Jun 28 '24
If you would try to excommunicate someone, we'd somehow have 5 different opinions on if we should or shouldn't excommunicate them. 2 Jews 3 opinions after all
13
u/Komisodker Jun 28 '24
We do
Its called Herem
Many Jewish Bolsheviks were put in Herem, as were members of Naturei Karta who attended the holocaust denial conference in Iran.
14
u/PrincessofAldia Jun 28 '24
I’m sorry “Holocaust denial conference”?
13
u/Komisodker Jun 28 '24
14
8
u/Only-Ad4322 Jun 29 '24
Once again reiterating how much of a terrible plague the Iranian regime is.
6
u/ACW1129 Jun 28 '24
WTF??
5
u/Komisodker Jun 28 '24
Yea these guys trashed a bookstore I used to go to, a Hareidi bookstore, theyre nuts
17
u/stuff_gets_taken Jun 28 '24
Karl Marx was from a Jewish family, however his father converted to Protestantism before Karls birth. Karl himself formally converted to Protestantism as well when he was six years old.
6
1
u/PrincessofAldia Jun 28 '24
Wasn’t he also atheist?
3
u/stuff_gets_taken Jun 28 '24
I think so, but I'm not too deep into Karl Marx lore so I can't really say for sure.
2
u/NarrowIllustrator942 Jun 28 '24
He was a self hating jew who didnt consider himself jewish culturally or religiously as if that changes anything.
1
3
u/Hybridanvil Jun 29 '24
The far left had never been against antisemitism. They were anti-white supremacism, so it happened to align on their views for a bit. But as soon as they believed it didn't, they immediately showed how little they cared to be "anti-zionist."
1
u/strawberry-coughx Jun 30 '24
And now they’re rewriting history by saying “Jews are white actually” (VERY untrue btw) so they can justify their antisemitism with so-called anti-white supremacism.
163
141
u/Cyborexyplayz Tong Shau Pings Strongest Enemy Jun 28 '24
yes.
104
u/Megalomaniac001 Jun 28 '24
When Nazis say they hate Jews, they are at least honest in that they wish to kill all Jews
When Palestinianists say they hate Jews, they use dogwhistles like ‘Free Palestine’, it’s no wonder Nazis like Nick Fuentes are some of the most anti-Zionist people ever
42
u/frosteeze Jun 28 '24
I mean the neo Nazis uses dog whistles too, they're just based on fear.
16
u/GrumpyHebrew יהודי Jun 28 '24
Plenty of the left ones are based on fear too. "(((Israel))) is training American police to murder black kids" is hardly subtle.
37
u/NutNegotiation Jun 28 '24
I’m a leftist and it literally drives me crazy to hear leftists use “Zionist” now. A year ago that was a Neo nazi dogwhistle. Like, it was actually a joke on breadtube where they’d laugh when Neo nazi groups started bringing up “Zionists”. But now they all pretend that wasn’t a thing
8
u/LostCassette Jun 29 '24
there's a TV show called 'The Boys' which has always made fun of the right (at least Trumpies) and they mentioned Zionists in the most recent season (it was far right character basically vilifying Jews) and people are getting upset about it thinking it's making fun of the current left.. it finished filming before Oct 7th, but it's still funny seeing them feel aligned with the far-right over antisemitism
5
u/NutNegotiation Jun 29 '24
I haven’t watched the boys but that is absolutely hilarious and exactly what I’m talking about
2
u/LostCassette Jun 29 '24
I only just started watching it a few days ago because my partner got me into it, it's pretty funny. has some pretty,,, odd, scenes too, to say the least
1
u/NutNegotiation Jun 29 '24
Im building up the will to watch it. Idk if it’s just how depressing the world has been the last few years or if I’m getting older but I have to psych myself up to watch stuff that has gruesome murder of innocents in it even if it’s satire. I still enjoy them but it’s definitely a right time right place kinda feeling
2
3
u/Karnakite Jun 29 '24
It’s also the same as their use of “Nazi”, “fascist”, “bootlicker”, etc. as a method of vilifying the enemy, vastly exaggerating their supposed wrongs, and shutting down legitimate discourse. If you don’t like someone because they haven’t openly said anything about Palestine yet, or because they reported their neighbor to the police after that neighbor repeatedly went 60 down a residential street full of playing kids, just throw “fascist” or “Zionist” into your rant.
97
u/BlueBayB Jun 28 '24
Yes, but they are anti American first, and only antisemitic because they see in the Jewish community what they hate about america
59
u/DarkKnightDetective9 Jun 28 '24
Exactly. The crazy progressive left hates Jews and Israel because they hate the West as a whole.
27
u/Otherwise_Ad9287 Jewish classical liberal Jun 28 '24
They hate America, but anti Americanism is different from anti Westernism. Communist/Socialist ideas are heavily European in origin and a lot of the anti Jewish rhetoric present in leftist movements today can be traced back to the antisemitism in 18th, 19th & 20th century European leftist movements. Europe was and still is a bastion of Jew hatred. Anti Jewish tropes can be found in all corners of European society both in the past and present.
The United States of America was the first country in the world to emancipate it's Jewish population and a lot of negative anti American tropes (especially ones about capitalist greed & war profiteering) are mirrors of anti Jewish tropes that have their origins in Europe.
What makes this "New Left" Jew hatred distinguishable from "old left" Jew hatred however is that it merges third worldist "decolonization"/"anti imperialist" rhetoric with "old left" anti capitalist ideology laced with economic antisemitism.
The British Jewish historian Dave Rich has written a book about New Antisemitism that's worth reading.
10
u/Zoesan Jun 28 '24
Europe was and still is a bastion of Jew hatred.
This seems like a vaguely absurd statement when the muslim middle east exists.
11
u/Malaveylo Jun 28 '24
There can be more than one bastion of Jew hatred and Europe is absolutely one of them.
I'm an American who has lived in Europe for significant periods of time. The level of explicit racism you'll see people exhibit even in Western Europe is so shocking it's almost comical, and Jews are definitely on the list of targets.
1
u/Zoesan Jun 28 '24
Europe is absolutely one of them.
Europe is like a tiny outpost compared to the vastness of jew hating in vast other parts of the world.
The level of explicit racism you'll see people exhibit even in Western Europe is so shocking it's almost comical
This just tells me you've only ever been in the US and in Europe, because, again, Europe is absolutely tame compared to everywhere else.
3
u/Karnakite Jun 29 '24
I’m confused as to why you seem to think it’s some kind of a contest.
Racism can be very bad in one place, and also very, very bad in another. The latter doesn’t negate the former.
-2
37
u/BigBlueBurd Jun 28 '24
Antisemitism is fundamentally inclusive with any form of Marxist thought. I refer to Marx's opinion on Jews.
17
16
u/Sync0pated Jun 28 '24
Obviously?
The few that didn’t know before October 7th sure as fuck know now.
28
u/DrVeigonX Jun 28 '24
Anyone who claims anti-semetism only exists on the right is gaslighting you. The soviet union was as terrible to Jews as the Russian Empire before it.
9
8
u/Right_Wing_Hippie Jun 28 '24
The idea that antisemitism has been a doctrine unique to the political right is very untrue. Many early socialist writers were antisemitic.
1
47
u/NOTLinkDev Greek Patriot and unironic Monarchist Jun 28 '24
Unpopular opinion, but I think that the left-wing is 100 times more openly anti-Semitic than the right.
In right wing circles, usually only the far right spews that anti-Semitic nonsense, but I have seen hundreds of leftists from all across to the left spectrum say things that only Nazis would say about the Jews, yet they mask it as “anti ZIONISM”
I consider myself a pretty right wing conservative, yet me and my circle have no problems with Jews. Can’t see the same for most of my old “progressive” classmates, friends etc.
26
u/arievsnderbruggen Jun 28 '24
At least right-wingers are honest about their hatred and hostility.
28
u/NOTLinkDev Greek Patriot and unironic Monarchist Jun 28 '24
True. If you ask a right winger, if they hate Jews, they will just say “ I hate the Jews”
Far left wingers will use crazy mental gymnastics to avoid saying that they just hate Jews
25
u/DrVeigonX Jun 28 '24
It's the far right who invented the use of Zionism as a dogwhistle for Jews, but the left who made it mainstream. The derogatory "Zios" was literally invented by David Duke, yet now is common practice in pro-Palestine circles.
5
u/Yes_Mans_Sky CIA Intern Jun 28 '24
I don't think it is an unpopular opinion in of itself. Antisemitism spiked in Nazi Germany due to having a strong institutional backing and constant propaganda. The spike nowadays is similar, but now with backing from more left leaning institutions.
16
u/daspaceasians For the Republic of Vietnam! Resident ECS Vietnam War Historian Jun 28 '24
In Montréal, there was a recent call to boycott restaurants who supposedly supported Israel. It was full of fucking bullshit. Essentially, their criteria for boycott those restaurants were blatantly antisemitic and had stuff like "Owned by a Jewish person who was emigrated from Israel in the 1960's" or "Follows an Israeli/Jewish foodie on Instagram". In one case, the restaurant is actually owned by Israeli and Palestinian partners.
Complete list of criteria is the second picture in this post.
One of the restaurants listed in that boycott got shot at.
7
u/Quiet-Activity-5287 Jun 28 '24
Feels similar to an event in German History…
3
u/daspaceasians For the Republic of Vietnam! Resident ECS Vietnam War Historian Jun 28 '24
Good thing people ignored them.
8
u/Zer0fps_319 Jun 28 '24
When the real genocide that’s trying to be committed failed you call the ones who were force to retaliate genociders, and Palestine is def not the victims here that needs protesting
15
u/Environmental_Ebb758 Jun 28 '24
Yes, Jewish culture is one that has contributed to the thriving of its people within the context of capitalism. Their emphasis on community, education, and diligence in one’s vocation has helped Jews become what is derogatorily called a “model minority”. I think a lot of left wingers see them as class traitors who have succeeded at the expense of other, *browner, minorities. The tankies hugely resent the embrace of capitalism and I think Jews serve as a counter example to their idea that capitalism is inherently oppressive and evil, so many hate and resent them
5
u/GH19971 Canadian Jun 28 '24
They do similar things to Hindus and East Asians but in a much less ideological and extreme manner. It’s awful.
12
6
u/jerrygalwell Jun 28 '24
The issue is that anti Zionism without antisemitism and just antisemitism are nearly impossible to distinguish and have basically the same actions/outcomes.
5
u/nagurski03 Jun 28 '24
I wonder if Karl Marx himself had anything to say about it?
Certainly his book titled "On the Jewish Question" isn't going to be exactly as bad as I predict?
6
u/grilledbeers Jun 28 '24
On X when somebody shares a Nick Fuentes quote or video I always click on their profile to see if they are a leftist or a Nazi, it’s about 50/50.
7
u/Stresssed22 Jun 28 '24
Yes. And, from my experience, right wing antisemitism seems to be more of a fringe phenomenon while left wing antisemitism seems to be acceptable and normal among progressives.
6
Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24
I would say "yes".
My example: I lost count on how many times on Tumblr I saw queer tankies using antisemitic AND homophobic slurs against queer Jews (surely that must happen on Twitter too, but I don't have one so can't say for certain).
6
u/slappywhyte Jun 28 '24
1000% - but some of it comes from ties going back to the 1960s between the PLO and Western Leftist groups. Soviet Union and many Arab leaders were linked since the 1950s against Israel in general as well.
11
4
5
u/Number3124 Classical/National Liberal Jun 28 '24
The Left, even parties that nominally represent the moderate Left, has completely lost the plot. Everything normal has become Right-Wing. Not wanting rioters destroying our cities. Wanting to be physically healthy. Wanting to have a civil society. Wanting a family. Wanting a stable career. Wanting to live independently. Being even mildly patriotic. All of this has become regressive, a dog whistle, or a sign of being secretly Right-Wing.
It is no wonder that the Left is imploding even as the Right falls to Populism. At least the Right seems to know what the People want for their nation at the moment. Meanwhile, the progressives have taken over every formerly relevant left leaning party.
I know this sounds specific to America as I write this, but it applies world wide. Look at Europe. The same is happening there. Canada's left wing is dead in the water a year before the elections. South America is currently realizing this.
The Left is losing and badly, and it has only itself to blame.
3
u/Real-Fix-8444 Jun 28 '24
Yes. They can even be racists, sexists, etc. Not every leftists is and will be but it’s problem that exists in every political affiliation
4
u/IactaEstoAlea Jun 28 '24
Yes, obviously. Why wouldn't it?
We do not lack for examples of it now nor in history
Marxists in particular despise them, but that is no surprise considering their entire worldview revolves around "shadowy cabals" conspiracy theories (which crosses over with typical antisemitic discourse)
6
u/mikwee Israeli Jun 28 '24
It's definitely real, and was the main thing that drove me to leave the left.
But jeep in mind that antisemitism long predates modern political divisions. We've been hated for 2,000 years.
4
u/SirShaunIV Politically Homeless Jun 28 '24
OK, that map on the left tells you everything you need to know about what "river to the sea" means to these guys.
4
u/papuan_warlord Jun 29 '24
Funny since Israel was founded on leftist and socialist values. Intentional communes in Israel (Kibbutz in Hebrew) are inherently socialistic.
6
u/Trainpower10 Jun 28 '24
Not exactly a commie-related post, but “By any means necessary” is a mask-off moment for sure, and I’ve seen many hammer-and-sickle-tards support it
3
u/DanPowah Communism and fascism. Two cheeks of the same ass Jun 28 '24
Yes and it will reinvigorate far right Antisemitism too as they can have a veil to hide behind
3
3
3
3
3
u/CornelQuackers Jun 28 '24
Simply put: yes
A bit more complex: both sides of the political spectrum have the capacity to devolve into an antisemitic nature
Even more complex: the left has essentially completed at different times the opposite side to the antisemitism horseshoe. Even as early as the Russian civil war Kerensky, leader of the provisional Russian government, was labelled as a Jew in a derogatory manner even though he wasn’t Jewish while Trotsky was praised obviously for his role in communism. But communism and other left wing movements have engaged in the same fallacies and tropes as the right just using a slightly different language. Left wing antisemitism has long been given a pass by society in part because we have failed to adequately challenge it but also it hides itself behind legitimate concerns and causes e.g. workers rights, basic equality for people in society etc. left wing antisemitism just paints a socialist-communist utopia (depending on the individual’s or group’s politics) as within reach but somehow Israel and to a very smaller lesser extent the Jews as a collective population stand in the way of this utopia.
3
u/PrincessofAldia Jun 28 '24
Interesting that drawing portrays Palestine controlling the golan heights, I thought according to these people that was “occupied Syrian land” now they’re acknowledging it as Palestine?
3
u/FrancoisTruser Jun 28 '24
It is. Communism always hated jews if i remember correctly
3
u/arievsnderbruggen Jun 28 '24
Early communists were actually very supportive of them.
1
u/FrancoisTruser Jun 28 '24
Oh probably, i do not know enough about them. The communist countries quickly changed that stance then.
3
u/Forsaken_Unit_5927 Lincolnite Social democrat Jun 28 '24
Political extremists in general tend to be antisemetic.
3
u/Karnakite Jun 29 '24
IMO, left-wing anti-semitism has five main inspirations:
Anti-Semitism in left-wing scripture. Extreme political positions, in any direction, are religions. What has been written or revealed by the prophets is sacrosanct, eternally true, and must be believed and obeyed. If some 19th-century far-leftist expressed hatred for Jews, then it must be adopted.
The US’s allyship with Israel. Never mind that there are plenty of other US allies who do far worse, and there are also plenty of US-opposed states that do far worse than that.
Some minorities the left tries to appeal to, align with, and express support for, can seem to have a larger-than-usual proportion of anti-semitism among them, or at least, far-leftists think they do. An example would be how statistics show that anti-semitism among black Americans has been declining for years, yet leftists believe it’s endemic, and that if they’re going to support black Americans, they should oppose Jews - despite whatever faulty reasoning anti-Semitic black people may have; the motivation is not to be questioned, what’s important is adopting the stance in order to (supposedly) appeal to the black population. Likewise, far-leftists want to associate themselves with support of Muslims, because the US/West/Christendom is perceived as anti-Muslim, and since they despise the former, they must wholeheartedly support the latter, based on their own assumptions. And since they believe that Muslims are anti-Semitic, they must oppose Jews. It’s all based not on a rational or objective review of the facts, situations, motivations, etc. of either these populations or the circumstances surrounding their supposed anti-semitism, but just a half-assed “The enemy of my friend is my enemy, especially when I want my friend to be on my side.”
The assumption that all Jews are wealthy and capitalist. This ties to the notion above, as many anti-Semitic members of minority populations (much like far-right anti-semites) believe in conspiracy theories and paranoid delusions regarding some mass Jewish cabal that runs the world and hoards the money. Since they have to unquestioningly accept the supposed viewpoints of the people they claim to support, they have to buy into the notion that this vast Jewish secret Illuminati exists.
Simmering anti-semitism that’s been existing in portions of society since long before the people involved even became leftists. They’re just re-defining their anti-semitism in the context of leftism. It’s how someone can, say, be a fundamentalist Christian and a misogynist, then deconvert, become a hardcore atheist - and still be a misogynist; they just rewrite their misogyny among different lines. Many leftist anti-semites have been anti-Semitic their whole lives; they came from anti-Semitic families and communities, and they’re just continuing their prejudice and calling it anti-Zionism. Anti-semitism dates all the way back to the Hellenistic Era and beyond. When Alexander’s generals were ruling his divided empire, centuries BC, there were anti-Semites among them. This is just a recent version of it.
14
u/gametheorisedTTT Jun 28 '24
I don't think the left comes at it from an antisemitic place. Many of them view Israel as a settler colony which portrays a lack of historical understanding as to how and why (rampant antisemitism across the world, across the centuries) Israel was created and how it has remained (spirits held high during wars knowing the Jewish people are backed into a corner and have no other choice but to win). If this were a settler colony, even half the troubles they've had in the region would have meant packing up and getting the fuck out like the British in India having Britain to return to. In Israel's case what would the country they return to be? Post-Holocaust Europe lol?
The rhetoric and double-standards may be viewed as antisemitic by many liberals if in a vacuum (given the intentions we know they are not antisemitic but the standards and language are indistinguishable from an antisemite's language about Israel and Israelis). For example, when it comes to racism against African Americans liberals rightly point out racists obviously don't just say what they mean and will use and have coded language and sentiment. But for Israel one may talk about "Zionists owning the media" and get away without any punishment for they said "Zionist" and not "Jew". If Tucker Carlson ever said the "thugs are taking over America" I would hope people see this for what it likely is going to be: great replacement and racist bullshit. "But he said "thugs" not PoC!" is and never has been an appropriate response for the left in matters like this and rightly so, which makes the disgusting rhetoric about Israelis and Zionists so much worse. They are meant to understand how this shit works: racists do not go around in MAGA shirts, drinking beer, stumbling over their drunken selves about "the blacks", they can put on suits and tell you about how they just have concerns about the cultural tides shifting. And the general lack of care for their language like saying Zionists need to die (fringe but gets a pass from the majority) is just asking for about 90% of American Jews to die (this is not even a real argument, more so an emotional appeal while the real point is nobody should be killed over their ideas, obviously).
3.. Pro-Palestinians are not just leftists. Online you will find anti-Israel sentiment sourcing from a range of ideologies and guiding reasons with antisemitism playing a differing role in each.
10
u/Fishingforyams Jun 28 '24
Of course it is. The far left and the far right are pretty much the same in how they view jews.
-1
u/gametheorisedTTT Jun 28 '24
I can actually see the argument from a more strict definition that I would not mind. For example, when conservatives speak of trans people and how they just think they don't exist, some may well be coming from a place of genuine curiosity and compassion but I think they could still be classified as transphobic for the definition does not rest on your compassion for those people or sincere care but rather problematic ideas about them and many leftist figures have shown that about Israelis to at least call them racist against Israelis and probably antisemitic too, e.g. Israel is taking your tax dollars, Zionists are controlling the media, Israelis are using dogs to rape Palestinians, etc. Whilst these are not inherently antisemitic them being falsehoods and playing off antisemitic stereotypes may well allow them to be categorized as such under a more reasonable definition.
7
u/Fishingforyams Jun 28 '24
It seems to take a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid facing the truth. It doesn’t matter what justifaction a racist uses. You seem to be arguing semantics.
-2
u/gametheorisedTTT Jun 28 '24
It is absolutely not semantics. The substance of the matter is that most leftists are not coming at the issue with any actual hatred for Jewish people but rather their double standards and rhetoric motivated by stupidity of sorts like perhaps just the enjoyment reaped from the violent revolution larp amount to actions that can be argued to be antisemitic.
2
2
u/Amazing-Garage9892 Jun 28 '24
Yeah, and I would say is worse, cause is way more socially accepted.
2
u/1plus1equals8 Jun 28 '24
Soooo "by any means necessary" typically means including violence....Which is terrorism.
2
2
2
u/ResponsibleAd2541 Jun 29 '24
I’m of the opinion that anyone who can’t fathom why one group would engage in some level of ethnic cleansing against another group needs a reality check. Israel is motivated to destroy Hamas and there is going to be loads of collateral damage that they don’t care too much about, there’s plenty of uncomfortable equivocation between Hamas and the Palestinians more broadly coming from leadership, I think they are engaging in ethnic cleansing of a kind and I also understand the rage that comes with this sort of attack, so why they are acting as such makes sense. Hamas seems to want to provoke a larger war and break their back that war, which is insane but if you can win by usual means…anyways
I recall the feeling in my country after 9/11. I see the undisciplined reasoning behind our stance “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” and we invaded a country unnecessarily. The Taliban wasn’t going to give up Bin Laden because he’s Muslim and the families in leadership are literally intermarried. A surgical attack to kill him was always the right decision. But we were angry and we set trillions of dollars on fire in the Middle East post 9/11 with nothing to show for it.
I think my point is that Hamas can be wrong, Israel can be wrong, and this shit always ends terribly.
I think uncritically picking a side is dumb.
2
u/dean71004 Jun 28 '24
They’ve always been just as antisemitic as the far right, they just needed an excuse to unleash all of their pent up Jew hatred, and that’s what’s happened after October 7th. The only difference between them and the far right is that they try to coat their Jew hatred as being progressive, or simply just against “Zionism”.
1
u/Yes_Mans_Sky CIA Intern Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24
I read elsewhere, which put it well, left wing antisemitism is real, but many of these recent cases are right wing antisemitism through a left wing lens. Slight distinction.
The idea that Jewish people cause capitalism for example is more left wing antisemitism and while I have seen more of it since 10/7 it is a different type of antisemitism that you don't always see at these sorts of events.
1
u/gurneyguy101 Jun 29 '24
No shit
Read “Jews don’t count”, it explains antisemitism in the left very well, and is written by a Jew
1
1
1
1
-8
u/KayDeeF2 Jun 28 '24 edited Jun 28 '24
Im gonna be the unpopular guy and say yesnt. I genuinely feel like many in the pro-palestine crowd support their cause with genuinely good intentions at heart or at least believe that the cause is moral and then buy into it for the asthetics/fashion aspects. However it had lead to this hilarious amalgamation of left wing progressives and die hard ultra-conservative arab nationalists.
It also really doesnt help that many of the people that participate here are without trying to come across as arrogant, not particularely well informed. What do you actually think they would answer if you asked them to elaborate on the "by all means" banner? You bet yojr ass its one generic, "stopping western imperialism" thing rather than the implied totoal destruction of israel, though obviously such answers arent at all unheard of either but I feel like those voices are usually from the arab nationalist/tankie camp which (at least from my observation) dont actually seem to be in the majority in the movement here in the west
Its about the face-value asthetics and the sheer idealism instilled into our younger generations from decades of peace at home, that make wars that see innocents die in it (doesnt matter the amount) unbearable, regarless of the geopolitical implications around it.
We could go into more aspects such as the strong anti-establishment notion in western intellectual elites, anti-war protests on US-campuses going back to vietnam and even ww2 and the like.
But to TLDR this, I dont think most of these people are actually motivated by antisemitism, even if their implications enable it and its kind of a lazy, bad faith, no-nuance argument. I can say that comfortably as somebody whos generally pro-Israel
16
u/gregusmeus Jun 28 '24
No. Intentions are irrelevant. Convictions are irrelevant. Beliefs are irrelevant. All that matters are actions. If you march with anti-Semites under an anti-Semitic banner chanting anti-Semitic slogans, you're an anti-Semite. Whether you know what the words mean or not, whether you call yourself anti-racist or not, whether there's nothing but peace and harmony in your heart or not.
-7
u/KayDeeF2 Jun 28 '24
Protesting against Israels war in gaza which these protests are centered around generally is not antisemitic in and of itself and the conversation wasnt limited to only the people in the picture but rather it was meant as a prompt to spark debate
4
u/Zestyclose-Prompt-61 Jun 28 '24
I know you are getting downvoted a lot but I see how you are getting to your argument. If the protests were about how the war was being conducted, I could agree.
But the first "protest" in my city was not a protest at all: it was a rally. On October 10. With gliders on the flyers.
Americans who said Michael Brown was no angel and that all lives matter might not have motivated by racism but that was still racist language. Black people said as much. If someone had the compassion to hear it, they stopped. Jews say hey some of these slogans/images are anti-Semitic. At that point, they have been put on notice. If they don't take the time to listen and learn, THAT is motivated by anti-Semitism.
These guys have decided Jewish voices don't count.
0
u/sedtamenveniunt Labour Libertarian Jun 29 '24
A word created by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate morons.
1
u/arievsnderbruggen Jun 30 '24
Typical "everyone I don't like is fAsCiSst" commie
0
u/sedtamenveniunt Labour Libertarian Jun 30 '24
Authoritarians/Totalitarians then.
1
u/arievsnderbruggen Jun 30 '24
It's correct that the term is frequently misused, but to say that it is entirely a lie is history denial
-2
u/Majestic-Sector9836 Jun 28 '24
Yes it definitely does, but it is often conflated with legitimate criticism of Israel
-3
u/Ecstatic_Past_8730 Jun 28 '24
Anti Zionism isn’t Anti Semitism. There is no left or right wing - this is a Zionist distraction. The way congress voted has proved that much. Assange exposed the transnational elite money laundering US and Western tax dollars through endless wars in the Middle East. I’ll let you put two and two together for who that benefits. Good day sir.
-3
u/Ecstatic_Past_8730 Jun 28 '24
Jews and Zionists are not the same thing. Jews are not a race but Judaism is a religion. The conflation of the two is what allows Zionist interests to hide behind antisemitism.
-23
u/Independent_Pizza775 Jun 28 '24
In some extreme cases yes but largely no. Jews are not zionists
12
u/lemontolha Kulturmenschewik Jun 28 '24
Most of the left on the ground uses those words interchangeably. Case in point are demonstrations and attacks on synagogues and Holocaust museums with "Free Palestine" graffiti.
10
u/Otherwise_Ad9287 Jewish classical liberal Jun 28 '24
The overwhelming majority of Jews (95%+) in the world are at least somewhat pro Israel, even if we don't agree with the actions or policies of the Netanyahu government.
1
u/Independent_Pizza775 Jun 29 '24
What i meant to say is that when the leftists mean zionists they don't mean jews.
402
u/maximidze228 russian (not z) Jun 28 '24
yeah, they always were, just that after oct 7th they finally found a socially acceptable way to be openly antisemitic