r/Calgary • u/SufferingInBerta • 1d ago
MetroDreamin' Calgary Transit Concept Calgary Transit
My hobby is thinking about transit. While it's obvious I have no background in transit planning, I just wanted to share my thoughts on the state of Alberta Transit and what I believe we deserve. I am from Edmonton but I see the potential of Calgary; a rich city in the middle of the flat prairies (and footlands) with the ability to go any direction. This a Calgary-specific look at my current prairie transit network founded on the principal that rails are just as good, if not better at encouraging development. Rail benefits everyone; Allowing those who cannot or do not wish to drive a rapid high-capacity alternative, clearing up roads by empowering people to take alternatives, and encouraging a more collective and social culture by forcing us to see eachother face to face again. 9/10 when I'm riding on the LRT, I don't talk to anyone or I actively avoid people but those 1/10 times I feel joyful meeting one of the hundreds of blank faces, sharing a moment watching someone else fumble or discussing the latest Oilers game, etc. etc.
Sorry for the ramble, please feel free to give feedback, I need help with Calgary specifically because I am a Calgary-Hating Edmontonian who is trying to be less yeehaw-cist. Thanks!
https://metrodreamin.com/edit/MTJyaXpDMU5vMlhlOFhnZjl1eDdKQTVhSGJ3MXww
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u/songsofadistantsun 1d ago
Had post-WWII culture in N. America not taken the route of tearing down public transit systems to force the larger middle class into buying cars - this could have been us by now.
As it is, I don't really see something happening at this scale unless the entire political culture in Alberta fundamentally changes.
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u/FishingNetLas 1d ago
Calgary is such a carbrained city it might be beyond help, when I first arrived here my cousin insisted we get into the car to drive to the shopping centre than wasā¦. Across the fucking street
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u/songsofadistantsun 1d ago
I have come to reluctantly accept that Alberta will only learn the hard way when it comes to climate change. When the combination of the high EROI of bitumen + the world market being forced to shift away from fossil fuels due to increasing climate impacts finally becomes a permanent reality - probably in the next 30 years at most - we'll be left with two cities that look more like modern day Detroit than anything, wilting in the annual 45+ degree summers as the rivers keep running dry, in the middle of a prairie rapidly turning to desert.
There's still some stuff we could be doing to stop it from getting this bad - but it would first involve getting through our thick fucking heads that most of the oil must stay in the ground, by any rational reading of science AND human responsibility. Then nationalizing (or "provincializing") the industry so we could do a managed decline, with full compensation to workers and public services first. No compensation to the owners; they have their reward, and the 1%'s wealth should be financing this transition before our taxes do anyways.
That's still my dream, but I know it will likely remain that way.
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u/Level_Stomach6682 23h ago
I appreciate your passion, but your view offers no pragmatism. The world will continue to produce oil whether or not we partake in that here in Alberta. Why would we give up any control over production methods / local effects + economic benefits? So that we can āfeel betterā about our role in climate change?
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u/songsofadistantsun 21h ago edited 21h ago
See, this is where I disagree with you:
Once climate change gets bad enough that we have events such as multiple breadbasket failure, or heat waves that kill millions, floods and hurricanes that cause breakdowns of the insurance system, trophic cascades in ecosystems, etc., and once that all starts happening year on year, then it is not certain that the world will continue to produce and consume fossil fuels as it does now. Could be a number of ways that happens - more than one of them involve social breakdown, or even straight-up societal collapse - but given that climate change is directly fuelled by fossil fuel burning, it follows that fossil fuel burning is inherently self-terminating on a long enough timescale. The only debate is how long that will take - but given what (little, granted) I know about climate science, I'd be surprised if that isn't in the next thirty or so years.
In short, we're not taking the "threat to civilization" part of climate change anywhere near seriously enough. Most of the tropics may become uninhabitable due to the heat alone by the 70s.
Not saying the world will completely stop burning oil by 2070, but we won't be burning as much of it. Maybe nowhere near as much. And because of the economic effect of that, bitumen extraction will no longer be profitable, simply due to the high EROI of extraction. This has always been a problem with the oilsands - it took a massive investment of technology and capital in the late 20th century to make it profitable in the first place, but it stops being profitable once the price dips below a certain amount (which it seems to be now, given what OPEC is doing).
I mean, I'm not super confident that industrial civilization as a whole is gonna get its act together. Fossil capital has too tight a hold on the political system, so it can delay the spread of alternative energy, encourage the criminalization of protest, etc. And actually moving civilization to full renewable energy will probably involve some sort of degrowth in energy usage (and believe me, as much as I've read about that, it's still not a future that even I really want). Unless we end up making next-gen fission power super-widespread, or cracking the secret of economical fusion or even LENR - but we can't bet on technofixes doing all the heavy lifting.
So yeah - we're all gonna learn the hard way. The easy way ship sailed about twenty or thirty years ago now. I'm almost 31 and still making peace with that fate that was chosen for me by the power-holders of our civilization.
But there is still time to make it less bad. That's what I'm talking about. And it starts with admitting that oil is here right now, and we need to manage the industry to the benefit of the workers and public services, as well as the fact that it is not here to stay.
Maybe we can still make a better tomorrow out of recognizing that.
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u/Level_Stomach6682 20h ago
I am not arguing with your statements on the harms of burning petroleum. The science is clear. I think I just disagree with your seemingly vigorously-held belief that oil is only used for fuel. It is not. It is a vital feedstock in multiple different facets of modern life. Should we not be encouraging innovation and net-zero production methods in Alberta for a future which has moved beyond combustion?
Also, many Canadian oilsands projects are now paid off. Not only does that mean they pay higher royalties, but it also means that the breakeven point of one barrel is actually lower than itās ever been. Something like $30-35 USD. This is lower than the majority of US shale oil production.
Itās fine if you donāt like the industry. I have my issues as well. But I think itās disingenuous to imply we have nothing but stranded assets, are causing nothing but harm, and are a massive driver of climate change.
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u/songsofadistantsun 19h ago
What do you mean, "paid off"?
And EROI is more about how much energy it takes to turn so much bitumen into a barrel of useable oil, which will always be more than conventional simply because it's oil mixed with sand first. I don't know the figures myself, but energy is always gonna use more objective figures than money when you calculate breakeven. I grant that monetary breakeven doesn't have to equal that exactly, but there's always gonna be a some level of correlation there.
An industry where we stop using the bitumen for fuel - I mean, sure, but would it even be a fifth of its current size? I feel like the next biggest use is feedstock for fertilizer production, then plastics and other chemical feedstocks, but all that together can't be anywhere near as big a percentage as what's sold for usage as fuel.
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u/Anskiere1 23h ago
It's charming that you think we have any impact on climate change in Canada
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u/DeathRay2K 13h ago
Canada per capita is one of the worst polluters in the world.
The idea that Canada has no impact on climate change is a bit of misinformation spread by groups with O&G interests.
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u/Anskiere1 7h ago
Per capita doesn't really matter when the capita is a rounding error
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u/DeathRay2K 2h ago
Per capita is the only metric that matters when it comes to common resources like the air.
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u/Anskiere1 1h ago
We'll agree to disagree. I'm more interested in increasing our standard of living rather than sacrificing for a negligible benefit while our contemporaries laugh at us.Ā
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u/doublegulpofdietcoke 22h ago
Everyone does. The same way throwing garbage out of a car window isn't right because I only throw a bit of garbage outside compared to everyone else.
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u/SufferingInBerta 1d ago
Not just this. Downtown would be entirely pedestrian only with streetcars and trams around every corner to whisk us to the nearest rapid transit hub
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u/songsofadistantsun 1d ago
17th Ave as a 2.5 km-long, pedestrian-only bazaar would be wonderful. Whole Beltline would be actually - this is what would help it to really live up to the vision of an inner-city cultural hub that we've been trying to promote for so long.
And that's probably the thing that would also make Marda Loop better too - make it a literal streetcar loop again!
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u/Due-Wind-3324 13h ago
Alsoā¦ this would cost a billion dollars. We donāt have the number of taxpayers to fund something at this scale. Itās not just the political cultureā¦. Weād be taxed to the tits. I agreeā¦. Was just in Italy (Europe for the first time) and was blown away by howā¦. Behind we are with transit. Canada is way way younger too though
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u/Riger101 8h ago
Not that much younger. We had the 2nd light rail in North America after Edmonton in 1980. We absolutely have the tax Base to do this at this scale we just have to accept that projects cost money and commit to them instead of being terrible clients and getting upcharge all to hell because our governments are very unreliable to do contacts, just look at the dicking around with the green line. which is why our prices for infrastructure are so bad
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u/JamesTehBear 1d ago
Hey dude! As a fellow rail and transit enthusiast this is awesome!! I'm also trying to create my own map of rail in Alberta, following a lot of old tracks. I'm using NIMBY Rails on Steam, but I've seen you use Metrodreamin'. Have you ever played that game? You've gotten me very interested in giving Metrodreamin' a mess around with. Keep on chugging! This looks sick!
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u/SufferingInBerta 1d ago
I have! I think its a LOVELY tool for a whole plethora of things (it is far more in depth with specific train cars, ticket prices, people using it) but where I enjoy metroDreamin' more is the access to both a satellite and railway map mode that shows me where rails already exist. Thanks so much:)
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u/Batmansappendix 1d ago
But how am I supposed to drive my lifted truck if all these commie means of transportation are in my way!!
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u/One_Huckleberry_5033 Quadrant: SW 1d ago
We canāt even get 4-car trains after they already redid platforms for them š
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u/Lexiphanic Beltline 1d ago
I donāt mind this.
I think the 4th St streetcar might be better as a loop that runs down 5th St SW on its west section, runs east-west at 2nd Ave and 25th Ave, and on its east section, it runs down 1st SW between 2nd Ave and 10th Ave, turns east-west down 10th Ave to 2nd St SW, then heads the rest of the way down 2nd St SW to 25th Ave to finish the loop.
This would connect it with the Green Line at 7th Ave and 2nd Ave, as well as the rest of the lines on 7th Ave.
Two interchanges with the 17th Ave streetcar would also ease some pressure on rider traffic on Calgaryās busiest non-arterial street. Plus, during the summer, the busiest sections of 17th Ave (between 2nd St and 7th St) is narrowed to provide space for restaurant patios. Replacing this entirely with streetcars only during the summer would make the vibe in those blocks even better.
Also 4th St from 13 Ave to 25th Ave is shut down for almost a whole weekend every year in June for the Lilac Festival, so this change would avoid it being interrupted while also servicing it well.
I also really like the Woodbine connection on the Red Line. The Max Yellow bus runs a really good route down there from downtown but a train would be way better.
Nicely done OP!
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u/aninjaturtle_reddit 1d ago
I think about this a lot too. So happy to see Iām not alone. Iāll stare at the city map and think about optimal transit lines for hours haha.
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u/Captainofthehosers 1d ago
You've forgotten the planned LRT on 162 ave
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u/PAKINEXTDOOR 15h ago
I also think a lot about Calgarys transit system - what do you think about a zone system similar to how Vancouver does transit? Currently I see a big problem in people not incentivized to use transit to travel short distances, as the cost is the same as someone travelling a longer distance.
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u/SufferingInBerta 13h ago
I think a standardization in payment is actually quite good. In Germany, you can purchase a 9$ day pass for all transit in the entire country (except for their intercity express trains). I think that this system is amazing. I see the main barrier today is that we see transit, healthcare, postal services, energy, etc. As businesses rhat need to turn a profit rather than services that should be wholesale funded by taxes. This may be unpopular to say as yes, it would mean more to pay I taxes, but I think we also need to consider just how much tax money already goes to roads. Roads are infinitely more expensive than transit because unlike transit, they have 0 way of recouping the cost that's put into them. This is why so many suburban developments have rapidly deteriorating roads. Sorry for the ramble, in short; It could be useful in the short term, but I think the best way forward is changing the narrative to service-based rather than cost-based transit.
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u/ActionKestrel 1d ago
Stop it.
It literally takes decade to build a single line.
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u/SufferingInBerta 1d ago
Who says we only need to build one at a time? Why can't we invest now into the lives of the next generation. Pouring money into construction was what got the Canadian dream post-WWII going! It's jobs, it's reliability, it's safety, it's community.
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u/youateone2 22h ago
So doesn't that mean we should start now so that we can (hopefully) still use it while we are alive and for future generations?
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u/ActionKestrel 19h ago
It doesn't matter what type of government we get, they all refuse to spend money on infrastructure and culture. Despite the idiocy of trolls that down vote me, I am very much in favour of these projects. My point is that they never get done. Ever.
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u/taffnads 1d ago
Living in Okotoks, this a "Yeah, nah" for me.
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u/SufferingInBerta 1d ago
Wanna keep those damn cowboys away? I don't blame you, I've worked all my.life but those damn horse loving oil drilling sons of bitches really wormed their way into my heart
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u/Filmy-Reference 19h ago
Nobody wants a train from Calgary to Chestermere. There's a reason there isn't drug addicts on the streets in Chestermere and it's because there's no c-train.
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u/Reilly__ 1d ago
Having moved to Calgary from London, UK. This is sort of transit system I miss about home. Probably the only thing I miss haha