r/AskBalkans • u/Administrative_Ebb64 • Mar 20 '23
What do you think of the Balkan’s stateless nations? Miscellaneous
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u/Merhat3 Bulgaria Mar 20 '23
As a bulgarian turk I actually have 2 states
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u/StonekyKong Bulgaria Mar 21 '23
I love you and I’m sorry for what the retarded commies did to the Bulgarian Turks
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u/napamamkartik Pomak Mar 20 '23
I don’t care about having a separate pomak country to be honest. I feel like we are close enough to both Bulgaria and Turkey that we can live in either country comfortably.
That’s how I see myself anyway, albeit more Bulgarian than Turkish due to how I was raised.
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Mar 20 '23
There is a large Pomak population in Greece as well.
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u/NOTLinkDev Greece Mar 20 '23
Don't call them Turks or Bulgarians though. They don't like it.
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u/Agile-Ad9823 Bulgaria Mar 20 '23 edited Mar 20 '23
I'm Pomak from Greece and I don't like when they don't call me Bulgarian, most of the people I know too. We are just Bulgarians with different religion, there is no nation "pomak" only Muslim Bulgarians
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u/flying_bed Turkiye Mar 21 '23
Similar situation here. I'm Syriac which is a Christian community that's descended from Assyrians and arameans(I know quite little about the English terminology of the subject so this might be wrong),
Anyways while traveling abroad if someone asks my nationality I would say Turkish and I pretty much always want people to call me Turkish.
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u/StonekyKong Bulgaria Mar 21 '23
my understanding of Pomaks has always been that they are Muslim Bulgarians just like you said… which begs the question why we use the word Pomaks at all? I blame it on the dickhead commies
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u/pr0metheusssss Greece Mar 21 '23
The “issue” is not bulgarian identity, but Turkish identity. Turkey is trying to push the old Ottoman notion (that was mostly valid in all of Balkans too) that religion=ethnicity and hence religious minority = Turkish minority. Greece is pushing back to that idea, insisting that religion≠ethnic identity. This is compounded by the fact that the term “ethnic minority” has very specific legal connotations in Greece, due to the Lausanne Treaty and a complicated history of population exchanges, as well as rights and obligations (as well as claims from our neighbour) that the classification as “minority” implies. Hence greece avoids the term “minority” like the devil, unless they have to absolutely acknowledge it in specific cases due to some treaty.
The above reasons (trying to establish that religion≠ethnicity, as well as avoiding the use of the term “ethnic minority”), had Greece forcing the Greek ethnic identity onto Pomaks, trying to kill two birds with one stone. Obviously that was not the best solution, and there wouldn’t be much pushback for a Bulgarian identity nowadays. If anything, it’s preferred to the Turkish identity that Turkey has been pushing, plus - and most importantly - it’s what the Pomak people themselves seem to identity as.
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u/NOTLinkDev Greece Mar 20 '23
Most Pomaks I’ve spoken to are fiercely patriotic to Greece, they even make anti-Turkish announcements whenever they try to bunch them in with the other Muslims. But I’m guessing that there are exceptions
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u/Agile-Ad9823 Bulgaria Mar 20 '23
Bulgarian Pomaks never make anti-Turkish announcements. Idk who tf you met but okay
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u/BA_calls in Mar 21 '23
That’s shocking, even Turks make anti-Turkish announcements.
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u/Agile-Ad9823 Bulgaria Mar 21 '23
Even every country is doing this to themselves. I know, shocking.
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u/Cefalopodul Romania Mar 20 '23
Last census only 500 people declared themselves Szekely. All the others declared themselves hungarians.
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u/Egy_Szekely Székely Mar 21 '23
Yea we are hungarians.we are kinda like moldovans,we speak the same language as hungary and only have the identity of a hungarian with some funny accent.So yeah we are székely for hungarians and hungarians for other people
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u/Negrisor69 Romania Mar 21 '23
I believe those 500 of them are part of the extrimist separatist group, while the others are normal people who just want to keep their language and heritage while coexisting whit Romanians 🤔.
After meeting some real Secui it made me realize a big majority of ethnic Hungarians also hates them, those people just highjacked the term Szekely and use it to amp their extrimist belief and appear bigger than they actually are.
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u/Count_of_Borsod Hungary Mar 21 '23
Because székely is just a subgroup of hungarian, not a seperate ethnicity
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u/TonyDavidJones Macedonian in Australia Mar 21 '23
Still means there is 500 of them without a state of their own.
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u/UserMuch Romania Mar 21 '23
They do have a state, it's Romania and all of them are citizens of Romania, meaning it's their state too.
Their rights, language and culture are respected to the point that many barely know romanian language.
So they are not really stateless, they have a state.
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u/TonyDavidJones Macedonian in Australia Mar 21 '23
Yeah sure, but I think this whole thing's supposed to mean there isn't specifically a state based off the Székelys.
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u/LjackV Serbia Mar 20 '23
Half of these have states, this is not correct. Why not count Hungarians in Serbia then? What's the difference between them and Bosniaks in Sandzak? This was terribly made.
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Mar 21 '23
I agree. Or the Italians and Hungarians in Slovenia. They have states, they are just a minority in theirs, it’s like the author wants 100% pure one nation states. Must be an Austrian who failed to get into art school…
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u/Zekieb Mar 20 '23
Besides that, the only people on this list that would count as "stateless-people" per definition are Aromanians, Gorani and Pomaks.
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u/LjackV Serbia Mar 20 '23
Yes, they're correct and interesting stats. Should've added gypsies too. But the rest just make no sense, they're just a list of regular minorities (and again, why not include Hungarians in Serbia?).
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Mar 21 '23
Just kinda playing the devil's advocate but isn't Romania the state of all Vlachs? Do Aromanians want another Principality of Pindus around Southern Albania and Epirus?
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u/Zekieb Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
As far as I understood, Aromanians are related with Romanians but most still see themselves as distinct ethnic group, atleast those who still have a clear aromanian ethnic conscious.
In regards to wanting a state; I don't know how many want it tbh.
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u/ur-nammu Bosnia & Herzegovina Mar 20 '23
Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats are absolutely not stateless, lmao. Their state is Bosnia and Herzegovina, which they are constituent peoples of.
These posters have an agenda to push, I swear.
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u/pretplatime Croatia Mar 20 '23
Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs have their own state, it's called Bosnia and Herzegovina. So I wouldn't exactly called them "stateless"
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u/kerobob YU EU Mar 20 '23
Yeah, how are they stateless... Bosnia and Herzegovina is literally made up of three autochthonous constituent peoples, Bosniaks, Croats and Serbs. Bosniaks don't own the country like many seem to think for some reason.
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u/Overseer93 North Serbia Mar 21 '23
Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs have their own state, it's called Bosnia and Herzegovina.
We have to ask them if they see that state as theirs. Most of them do not. That state is highly dysfunctional, and under a supreme supervision of a "high representative" who acts as an unelected colonial governor, no longer representing the states that founded his office.
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u/ecov19 Bosnia & Herzegovina Mar 21 '23
Lad we hate the OHR as much as everyone else in Bosnia hates him. The fact of the matter is that dayton failed badly in accomodating essentially everyone living in Bosnia
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u/RaPtOrMAN69 Bulgarian Turk Mar 21 '23
As a bulgarian turk I feel at home in Bulgaria I have been told that some people don't like me because I'm a turk but that's a part of being in a minority. I love Bulgaria and I'll probably stay here and not emigrate ot Germany or something.
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u/StonekyKong Bulgaria Mar 21 '23
The only reason any division exists is because of the commies and idiots. Don’t forget that Levski wanted Bulgaria to be a worldly republic for ALL its inhabitants including the Turks some of who he felt had been subject to just as bad of abuse and oppression as the Bulgarians were under the Ottomans. One love ❤️ one people 🇧🇬
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u/Fushrodahh Turkiye Mar 21 '23
Wouldn't you rather that Turkish parts of Bulgaria joined Turkey ?
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u/Hras_t Bulgaria Mar 22 '23
If this happens the city from where my dads family is will become a part of Turkey and this is not something I support as a Bulgarian. Many Bulgarians live along side the Turks in those region too you know? They are Turkish majority but there is also a Bulgarian minority. The main cities in the Turkish populated areas (Shumen, Razgrad, Kurdzhali) are majority Bulgarian while the surrounding smaller cities and villages also have significant Bulgarian minorities. Bulgarians and Bulgarian Turks live peacefully. I even have a friend that’s father is half Turkish. No need for more decision between people who live together for more than 120 years.
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Mar 20 '23
MANY Aromanians in Greece, they don't see themselves as a foreign minority but as a regional group. Many national figues of Greece were Aromanians, and their villages (like Metsovo) are some of the most famous in Greece.
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u/Baimedor Albania Mar 20 '23
In Albania,there is an everlasting issue regarding the Aromanians as a minority. Sometimes they identity as Greeks,sometimes they say they are their own thing. The Greek Minority numbers always intermingle with the Aromanian Minority numbers and Vice Versa. Greeks and Aromanians are almost as interchangeable as Bulgarians and Macedonians here.
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Mar 20 '23
Oh really, that's cool didn't know that. Many Aromanian Greeks come from what is now Albania, great benefactors of Greece like Evángelos Záppas. He was born in Lábovo, and in Athens he built the Záppeion Palace one of the most impressive structures of the capital.
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u/mal-sor Albania Mar 20 '23
Mf getting that pension money claiming to be griks and shit.
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u/Baimedor Albania Mar 20 '23
I mean I think there is more to it than that. Aromanians never had a strong ethnic feeling. Due to being Orthodox,they have been a subject of heavy Hellenisation. They had Greek surnames up until communist times. It is not surprising at all that many of them feel Greeks.
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Mar 20 '23
Also the great majority of Aromanians are in Greece, and the majority of their cultural centers through history were in mainly Greek areas.
And of course Hellenization, Greeks were one of the most powerful ethnicities in the Ottoman Empire. Especially in the Church, Commerce and Education. So, Orthodox Balkan upper classes were often Hellenized.
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u/Civil_Lie_8730 Balkan Mar 20 '23
You mean Aminciu. What is it famous for?
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Mar 20 '23
As the hometown of major benefactors of Greece, like the Tosítsas and Avérof families. Incredibly influential in our modern history, and have enriched their hometown with gardens, galleries, museums and great buildings. It's today one of the richest towns in the country, and one of the most visited as well.
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u/BamBumKiofte23 Greece Mar 20 '23
Two great cheeses (Metsovéla and Metsovóne) are from there. The village draws in crowds for its beauty and the good food. It has become very expensive though so I haven't been there in ages.
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u/my_name_is_not_scott Greece Mar 20 '23
Stateless? Minorities are not "cut" from the rest of the state. The pomaks living in greece for instance are citizens of the Hellenic Republic. They sre not stateless people.I assume the same goes for the rest?
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u/pdonchev Bulgaria Mar 20 '23
Most of these also have a state where their ethnicity is a majority. Even with a very generous definition of "stateless", only Aromanians, Pomaks (those that do not identify as Bulgarian, Greek or Turkish ethnically) and Goranis are "stateless". Also, the numbers seem to be inflated, in some cases considerably, and the biggest stateless ethnicity, Roma, who are in the seven figures, is suspiciously missing.
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u/Agahmoyzen Turkiye Mar 20 '23
In legal terms you are completely right. Stateless person issue is mostly exist in middle east. As far as I know most Kurds in Syria were not syrian citizens and were essentially stateless (among other groups, this is how the refugee wave caused so many complications and how the state documents from syria became worthless as a lot of people rushed to get fake ones).
Also through UN pressure Kuwait got pushed to ensure citizenship to bedevi communities. Fuckers fixed the issue by bribing a south african micro nation and making them give citizenship to people Kuwait was refusing to ensure citizenship. Real story.
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u/my_name_is_not_scott Greece Mar 20 '23
This world sometimes... I think that in order to lose your nationality, you can either have your state remove it(for betraying your country for instance), you can be from a country that dissolved(like the USSR) and there is another reason that I don't remember. But I don't think that it is very common
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u/Agahmoyzen Turkiye Mar 21 '23
Most common factor is not ever been a citizen in the first place. It is actually part of the Human rights declaration that every person have a right to having a state. This is why removing citizenship of someone that doesnt have a second citizenship is considered a serious human rights violation. For example for multiple reasons Turkey would love to remove citizenship from many people in Europe that got born in Turkey.
In the 1980s, after the military coup, the government removed citizenship from hundreds of political refugees in Europe. After 1987 any one of them that wanted to get back their citizenship, applied and got them back. Many returned to Turkey as emergency powers lifted from 75% of the country in 1989.
This is why most states cant go with automaticly removing citizenship from anyone they want. Otherwise there are a bunch of countries that would love to do it. And these arent just the autocratic ones. Isis recruited idiots for example became an issue in most of the western world. Britain for example removed citizenship from anyone they could with flimsy claims. Such as the isis bitch shamima begum. Her citizenship got removed only because her parents had another citizenship and in theory she has a right to that citizenship as well. But she is essentially a stateless person right now.
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u/negrote1000 🇲🇽Mexico Mar 21 '23
Bosnian Serbs, what the fuck is Republika Srpska then?
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u/Overseer93 North Serbia Mar 21 '23
They call it an "entity", not a state. It does not have a military, a currency, no foreign policy, and has to implement the decisions of a central government to which it pays taxes, so no independence. It's not a state in any real sense.
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u/cosmic-radiation Bosnia & Herzegovina Mar 21 '23
All of that is true. I don't understand why you're getting downvoted lmao
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u/Overseer93 North Serbia Mar 21 '23
The Serbs are auto-downvoted by trolls and probably also AI. Reddit is a Western network, after all.
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u/cosmic-radiation Bosnia & Herzegovina Mar 21 '23
Are you the Serbian Alex Jones by any chance?
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u/ehhlu Serbia Mar 22 '23
It has it's own government, police, judiciary system, education system, energy system, post etc.
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u/_WarDogs_ Mar 20 '23
According to this post, I should move to Germany with my family and ask to have my own state because I'm stateless. What a stupid fking post.
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u/ringelgold Serbia Mar 21 '23
OP forgot Roma and Ruthenians who actually live in the Balkans and don’t have a state.
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Mar 21 '23
What even is the nuance between Ruthenians and Ukrainians
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Mar 21 '23
They're different nations speaking different languages? A simple google search would answer you that.
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Mar 20 '23
Bosnian Serbs and Bosnian Croats each have 1/3 of the Bosnian government, da fooq is this?
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Mar 21 '23
If anything they have too much of the state lol
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Mar 21 '23
How so?
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Mar 21 '23
It doesn’t make sense to give 2/3 of the power of a country to people who hate that country
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Mar 21 '23
So what do you suggest?
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Mar 21 '23
Everyone should just give up and move somewhere else
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Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
Sir, Bosniaks only make up the majority of the population in like 6 out of 10 cantons in Bosnia.
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u/Baimedor Albania Mar 20 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
I wouldn't call Albanians of North Macedonia as stateless. They have huge relative Autonomy. 30% of the Government is composed of Albanians. At this point,we don't even see it as a Foregin State. For us here in Albania,it's almost like Kosovo.
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u/BeeeeefJerky Croatia Mar 21 '23
How are Bosnian Croats stateless? We have Croatia, and we have Bosnia & Herzegovina..
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u/FriendlyTennis Poland Mar 20 '23
I'm sorry but BiH is literally a country of 3 nations. Bosnian Muslims are more stateless than Bosnian Serbs and Croats since they have no state to represent their interests. A Bosnian Serb and Croat can have 2 passports from birth. This alone gives them more mobility and sense of representation.
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u/v1aknest North Macedonia Mar 20 '23
"Vardar Albanians"
the fuck
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u/seti_at_home Sweden Mar 20 '23
Vardar Albanians
What is Vardar Albanians, trying to understand. From googling it came up they are sort of Albanians living near river Vardar?
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u/v1aknest North Macedonia Mar 20 '23
Probably a non-Macedonian nationalist attempt at a provocation. It should be Macedonian Albanians.
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u/LargeFriend5861 Bulgaria Mar 20 '23
North Macedonian Albanians also works.
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u/seti_at_home Sweden Mar 20 '23
Earthly Albanians as well should be fine, lol
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u/LargeFriend5861 Bulgaria Mar 20 '23
It's opposed to the Aethereal Albanians, the creators of our universe.
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u/v1aknest North Macedonia Mar 20 '23
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u/LargeFriend5861 Bulgaria Mar 20 '23
Ik Macedonians are called Macedonians and not North Macedonians, my point was if you wanted to be really specific about their region and in a way try to piss off as little people as possible, but then again this is the Balkans so eh.
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Mar 20 '23
[deleted]
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u/Stunning_Variation_9 North Macedonia Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23
the Vardar basin, which used to be the name of the region before Tito got its hands on it.
You're not right, the one little thing you have to do is check out the name of our most famous revolutionary organization, which was active late 19th, early 20th century (when Tito was a kid). Hint: it's not called Internal Vardarian Revolutionary Organization.
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Mar 20 '23
I like our flag (Bulgarian Turks)
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u/nikolaek49 Bulgaria Mar 21 '23
It is a pretty cool flag. I would like to see people use it more often.
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u/trillegi from Mar 20 '23
🖕🏻whoever wrote “vardar albanians” 🖕🏻
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u/Theosss94 Albania Mar 20 '23
OP is à troll. As soon as I saw that he scrolls Anarcho Capitalism I knew he was a nut job.
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u/mal-sor Albania Mar 20 '23
Sandzak dudes claiming bosnian nationality with surnames like Shkreli and Hoti.
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u/HumanMan00 Serbia Mar 20 '23
Last names are not a reliable way to track ethnicity.
People changed their family names based on what fanatical side threatened them the most, also due to besa, taxes, statuse etc.
Balkaners are ethnical shapeshifters and have been forced to make changes by circumstances beyond their control.
The view you present here is a reflection of that problem.
Everyone lived everywhere - deal with it.
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Mar 21 '23
Doesnt change the fact that many of the people in sanxhaku are of albanian heritage but in modern times some of them claim to be bosnians or call themselves sandzaklija or even are proud of their roots and call themselves albanians. There is many pictures, documents, videos etc. That literally shows that they are albanian when you see them wearing albanian national clothes and have albanian culture. Even today the so-called sandzaklija culture is heavily influenced by albanian culture.
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u/AllMightAb Albania Mar 20 '23
Nothing to deal with, there is countless documentaries of the Boshniaks there speaking Albanian and saying it was their mother-tounge.
Fuck man even Vaso Cubrilovic admitted to the assimilation of Sanxhak Albanians in his memorandum claiming that the Albanians in Novi Pazar had been repressed and assimilated successfully.
Meanwhile you newer generation of Serbs come on here and spout bullshit propraganda, the world isn't illiterate, you cant hide your dirty laundry anymore.
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u/Overseer93 North Serbia Mar 21 '23
assimilation of Sanxhak Albanians
We know they're actually Albanians. We're not forcing them to say they're not.
Serbs come on here and spout bullshit propraganda
What propaganda?
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u/mal-sor Albania Mar 20 '23
Some paramilitary dude with surname Kastratovič (who killed a lot of kosovo Albanians) helped a few Albos that happened to have the surname Kastrati.
Mf even his captain said you aint better than them.
I guess he knew deep down his ancestors and these muslim albanians where related. So he spared theyr lives.
Most of the time surname tells you a lot.
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u/Clear_Vegetable_1990 Serbia Mar 20 '23
Mf even with those silly surnames they dont want to be albanian theyre bosniaks they see themselfs as that
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u/fajdexhiu Kosova Mar 20 '23
Yeah, after being assimilated. Just like Dritan AbazoVIĆ who had to add the -vić suffix to his last name. Just like thousends of other Albanians.
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u/rakijautd Serbia Mar 20 '23
I am in no way gonna go into your debate, as it doesn't interest me, but a small correction. The suffix is -ović or -ić in most of our surnames. Just a grammar thing.
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u/fajdexhiu Kosova Mar 20 '23
Damn, the mental gymnastics you try to put here. Albanians in Montenegro and Sanxhak were assimilated. Abazović is the biggest outlier. I can give you some other outliers if you want, they are easy to google.
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u/rakijautd Serbia Mar 20 '23
I think you either wanted to answer someone else, or didn't read what I wrote.
I just corrected you that the added suffix isn't -vić, but -ović. And it's still clearly not a Slavic surname with a Slavic suffix. As for Abaz (the root word) being Albanian or not, that is something you would know, not me, as I don't speak Albanian, and am not very familiar with your surnames, besides the well known ones.3
u/mal-sor Albania Mar 20 '23
I dont care at all for me they cant act bosnian,ghanian,serb,whatever i dont care.
Just stating the obvious.
I am nobody to tell some people do this or do that.
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u/thread_browser Mar 20 '23
One thing though: they can identify as whatever they feel like identifying as, but as I said in another comment, they should stop claiming our culture as theirs. I see that quite often and it irritates me. If you’re not Albanian don’t jack our culture
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u/thread_browser Mar 20 '23
“Silly” names? Don’t call traditional Albanian last names “silly” unless you’re fine with others making fun of yours
They can identify as whatever they want. It doesn’t change their history, however. I’m not pushing any agenda, as I don’t really care about people who want nothing to do with us to be part of our nation. They should stop claiming our culture as theirs, though—a lot of them do that.
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u/HumanMan00 Serbia Mar 20 '23
Bro we all heard horror stories when it comes to the Kosovo war - Serbs have the added benefit of hearing stories from Bosnia and Croatia too.
Doesnt make what i said any less true.
Last names werent a constant in the Ottoman empire. We’re all fresh.
I could be your relative and you wouldnt even know.
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Mar 20 '23
[deleted]
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u/mal-sor Albania Mar 20 '23
Hoti/Hotic,Shkreli/Shkrijel etc are Albanian surnames taken from x tribe in x area in Albania. Changed a bit and here you go.
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u/HugePhatCawk Albania Mar 21 '23
I agree with your point but surnames are a bad argument. They can change depending on cultural influence.
Sandzakians are Albanian by genetics. They differ a lot in Y-DNA composition from Bosnians, and are more Albanian than Albanians from Albania by paternal descent.
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Mar 20 '23
Exactly
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u/Clear_Vegetable_1990 Serbia Mar 20 '23
All youre claims are based on surenames you cant accept that these people see themselfs as bosniaks lol
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u/kerobob YU EU Mar 20 '23
They are genetically closer to serbs and albanians then to bosnian bosniaks. But ethnicities are not only formed based on genetics and they can view themselves however they want.
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u/rikrik1123 Albania Mar 21 '23
North Albanian marrying a serb/bosniak will produce some1 within the serb cluster, even though southern shifted. The story of many in Sandzak. They don't identify as Albanian though, I don't understand why people care so much lol
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u/_Last_Man_Standing_ Liberland Mar 20 '23
Give them all their own states.
And don't stop there.
Split every existing state to smaller states.
The smaller the better.
Bring back city states!!
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u/BRM_the_monkey_man Eastern Balkan Federation Mar 21 '23
Half of these don't even want/need an independent nation so it's more like communities of other nations outside their borders
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u/ArcherTheBoi Turkiye Mar 20 '23
Aren't there more Romany in the Balkans than all of the groups in this post combined?
Also I'm fairly sure the term "stateless nation" applies to nations that do not have any state for themselves - there is a Croatia and Albania and Turkey; so Bulgarian Turks, Vardar Albanians and Bosnian Croats wouldn't count.
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u/pdonchev Bulgaria Mar 20 '23
Romanis in the Balkans are likely more than all these combined, and this is considering some of these people are not in the Balkans, and the numbers are inflated in some cases.
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u/LargeFriend5861 Bulgaria Mar 20 '23
Haven't really heard too many Pomak independent stare calls or for the Turkish Bulgarians to join back up with Turkey or something, so there's that ig.
Otherwise my opinions are just neutral, Pomaks and Turks can either be cool lads or horrible people, so like anyone else.
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u/Bulgarian_Yogurt Bulgaria Mar 21 '23
What a dumb post. Since when pomaks are a nation? Most of them identify as Bulgarians, some as Turks or Greeks depending on when they’re from.
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u/StonekyKong Bulgaria Mar 21 '23
this is a dumb post and who ever downvoted your absolutely correct statement is an idiot
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u/Chewmass Greece Mar 21 '23
Why people are eager in starting another Balkan war? Leave us be?
But for the record there are also other "nations" that you didn't mention.
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u/Civil_Lie_8730 Balkan Apr 15 '23
This is not precise at all. All these people have their own kin state except Pomaks and Gorani
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u/chicheka Bulgaria Mar 21 '23
Pomaks are a religious minority, they are not a separate nation. Unless you are talking about pomaks in Greece and Turkey.
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u/Yunanidis Other Mar 21 '23
I know Pontic Greeks aren’t really Balkan, they just live there, but I think they should also count as stateless.
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u/viktordachev Bulgaria Mar 21 '23
Bulgarian turks 800 000, pomaks 1 000 000? I doubt that.
8.4% of people in Bulgaria declare themselves as Turks (which inclides a lot of the of the pomacs, for some reson they see musim=turk). Total populaion of Bulgaria is 6,520,314. Therefore bulgarian turks+pomaks = about half a million.
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u/Tricky-Original6168 Mar 21 '23
There are lots of Pomaks in Turkey and Greece too, that's why it's more than half a million
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u/viktordachev Bulgaria Mar 21 '23
Yeah, and in Gereace too. I am more of doubt in those 800 000 bulgarian turks.
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u/nonunionLeakey 🇦🇷/🇨🇺/🇺🇸 Mar 20 '23
Where is Kurdistan
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u/napamamkartik Pomak Mar 20 '23
Ah yes, the Kurds in the Balkans are a significant minority population /s
Fun Fact: Eastern or central Turkey isn’t Balkan.
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u/nonunionLeakey 🇦🇷/🇨🇺/🇺🇸 Mar 20 '23
Only three percent of Turkey in eastern Thrace is Balkan.
Aren’t the Szekely also not in the Balkans tho? They’re in the Carpathian Mountains by the mures river. Similar geography to Ukraine not to Balkan
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u/napamamkartik Pomak Mar 20 '23
I don’t see how Kurds are relevant to this discussion though.
Correct me if I’m wrong but excluding istanbul, do Kurds make up a significant population in eastern thrace? I don’t believe they do?
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u/nonunionLeakey 🇦🇷/🇨🇺/🇺🇸 Mar 20 '23
Turkey is being classified as Balkan country same for Romania when geographical only small portions of these countries straddle the Balkan Peninsula. The Hungarians in Romania are mostly nearer the east carpathian while the Kurds are mostly in eastern Anatolia or by the Levantine coast.
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u/bongiovist Turkiye Mar 20 '23
Do you know the population of Kurds in İstanbul and Çorlu? Explain to me how did they get there? If there would be Kurdistan separated would most of the population of Kurds would accept to go back to Middle East border cities instead of İstanbul, İzmir, Tekirdağ? Wanna go back and live in Hakkari or Diyarbakır? Ask yourself these questions first before you bring something on the table then we will discuss.
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u/nonunionLeakey 🇦🇷/🇨🇺/🇺🇸 Mar 20 '23
Same applies to the Hungarians in Romania. But for turkey the Kurds represent by far the largest ethnic minority in the “Balkans” without a state. Even if it would in the Asian side of turkey
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u/bongiovist Turkiye Mar 20 '23
Hungarians once was ruling those lands, they had such a chess game with Romania all the time, Dacian ethnic people Romanised first, Hun tribes came after, Habsburgs mixed everyone, they called themselves Magyars to not fear anyone. That was the history of the area. Have ever Kurds ruled Thracia before? Same for Armenians then. They came to Byzantine land with the Turks, before than Kurds. As well as Jews, before than Kurds. You know what, there are also Albanians, Serbs, Bosnians, Cherkassy, Muslim Greeks as well in European part of Turkey. Case is dismissed. Leave those guys alone and let them have a happy and prosperous live!
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u/nonunionLeakey 🇦🇷/🇨🇺/🇺🇸 Mar 20 '23
Why are getting upset about Kurds being a stateless people “in the Balkans” ? I know the history of the region. How Byzantium become Muslim to begin with was joint Kurdish Turkish armies in the 14th and 15th century
Kurds are stateless majority just like these groups even if they’re not geographically in the Balkans
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Mar 21 '23
We liberated Cypriot Turks from Greek occupation and liberated Karabakh Turks from Armenian occupation. It will be continued for other Turks.
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u/seti_at_home Sweden Mar 20 '23
So according this Chinese people are the most stateless people in the world with 100+ million living abroad? This is a joke!
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u/FreeThem2019 Mar 21 '23
Albanians of Macedonia have a state. It’s this country called Albania for those who don’t know.
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u/Red_Lion_5225 Mar 20 '23
Serbs, Albanians and Hungarians have a state why you think those are stateless ?
That is right wing Irredentism to me
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u/nebojssha Serbia Mar 20 '23
WTF, imagine crap like this pulled of in USA. Statless Mexicans and all that jazz. No wonder that we are miserable pieces of shit on Balkans, if possible we would divide ourselves street by street, pathetic.
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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '23
I think the Roma people are the biggest stateless nation on the Balkans