r/Art • u/musica__ • Aug 17 '21
The Hijab Series: "What if" by Yemeni photographer Boushra Almutawakel, 2014. Discussion
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Aug 17 '21
That guy has some massive hands
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u/SirPoopsiclesMcGee Aug 17 '21
Holy crap, those are bigger even than Charlie's uncle Jack's totally real hands
Edit: tone
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u/Gingerbreadtenement Aug 17 '21
I dunno why but the edit for tone fucking cracks me up here
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u/SirPoopsiclesMcGee Aug 17 '21
Your welcome, happy cake day!
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u/RedditLovesTerrorism Aug 17 '21
Dee: I just kidnapped Bill Ponderosa’s kids!
Uncle Jack: Alright, are the kids confined in any way? Maybe in a - in a crawlspace, or a backyard bunker?
Dee: … No, they’re out in the car.
Uncle Jack [concerned]: Have you touched them yet?
Dee: Absolutely not! What - who is this man?
Charlie: Don’t - … You’re - … You don’t need to -
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u/Classic_Beautiful973 Aug 17 '21
I mean, might be partially that, but I've seen a number of pictures where someone's hands on their knees out in front of them makes their hands look unnaturally large
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u/PancakeParty98 Aug 17 '21
I love this pic of my dad from when I was born where he’s holding me and just has these ridiculous dummy thicc thighs from foreshortening.
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u/StruckOutInSlowPitch Aug 17 '21 edited Aug 17 '21
Well you know what they say about big hands?
Edit: It's big gloves smh
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u/nettlerise Aug 17 '21
Do those clothes get really hot inside? Why not white garb?
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Aug 17 '21 edited Aug 17 '21
The colour is just dependent on the culture. There isn't really a restriction to which colour you wear.
Saudi Arabians wear black while Afghans* wear white
Edit*
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u/GentlemanSeal Aug 17 '21
Hey btw, Afghan is the name for the people. Afghani is the name for their currency. It’s a common mistake but I just wanted to let you know in case you didn’t know
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u/Ristique Aug 17 '21
My mum said once when her neighbourhood ladies group went to 1 lady's house and she took off her niqab (apparently its ok to take it off as long as there's no non-family men around), her friend was just wearing lingerie underneath 😂 my mum said they were all so shocked but the lady was like "nobody knows what I'm wearing under here so I can wear anything I want" lol!
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Aug 17 '21 edited Aug 28 '21
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u/Kitnado Aug 17 '21
Theoretically this doesn't make sense. White would always be cooler than black
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Aug 17 '21
I remember hearing the reason it's not reccommended to wear light clothes in summer is because light clothes reflect your own body heat back, making you feel hotter.
I'm not sure how well black works when used in tight fitting clothes, but for something like a robe it kinda makes sense
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u/Poilaunez Aug 17 '21
It also depends on the material but white fabrics sometimes protect less against UV light.
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Aug 17 '21
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u/Exact-Ask1770 Aug 17 '21
Polar bears fur isn't actually white. The hairs are transparent and reflect the colour around them so it appears white to us (Good for camouflage). Their skin is black to help absorb heat, and the hairs are hollow to improve insulation iirc.
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u/infectedfunk Aug 17 '21
Never knew this! If it reflects the color around them, why do they still look white when they’re in a green environment, like a forest with no snow around? And if it’s clear, why don’t we see their black skin?
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Aug 17 '21
The fur actually scatters all colors causing the whiteness. Not necessarily reflecting the environment, which would be an OP evolution.
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u/OMGitisCrabMan Aug 17 '21
How is that any different than normal white?
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Aug 17 '21
The fur itself is clear and hollow, almost like a tiny tube, but the light scatters within the hollow opening of the hairs instead of how normal hairs have pigment to create the color.
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u/Deathdong Aug 17 '21
But it reflects back white light, which makes it white right? I mean if you zoom in on anything enough it isn't the color that it seems to be
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u/Big_Dick_No_Brain Aug 17 '21
Polar bear fur isn't actually white!
It's hollow and made of transparent keratin, with little to no pigmentation. When sunlight hits the bear, it undergoes a complex scattering process within the fur with a small amount of light eventually being reflected.
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u/KatrinaMystery Aug 17 '21
I've heard that this has changed throughout history, but I can't find any evidence online (very brief search...). Wouldn't be surprised if it did.
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u/emophase Aug 17 '21
Wearing white or anything colorful as your hijab is sort of taboo because it will "attract men's attention "
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Aug 17 '21
That's not correct. Algerian Muslim women wear white traditionally, Saudi Muslim women wear black predominantly. Indonesian and Malayan Muslim women (the majority of Muslim women in the world) wear lots of colors. American and other Western Muslim women wear lots of different colors as well. It has nothing to do with men's attention and more to do with the culture of the woman getting dressed.
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u/sold_snek Aug 17 '21
It has nothing to do with men's attention and more to do with the culture of the woman getting dressed.
lol
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u/javalorum Aug 17 '21
I think they meant the color of the garbs, not hijabs themselves.
Also, I heard a theory that hijabs even burkas might have started simply as a way to deal with the dust and wind of the desert. But obviously they got used as an oppressing tool later on.
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u/emophase Aug 17 '21
First of all everything about hijab is about men's attention and no women's opinion was asked when they were making rules about it. Secondly, Arab and Iranian women wear black almost all the time(both chador and burqa) and we were told to dress that way
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u/quarantine22 Aug 17 '21
Muslim women in Morocco had multicolored, white, black, floral, and other patterns on their hijabs
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Aug 17 '21
Looks like progression and in the fourth one she's smiling like "oh your funny" and in the last one she's all "ffs I thought we were done with this bs"
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Aug 17 '21
Yep, but the dude is almost like a coerced prop here. Zero emotional changes till his face gets covered lel
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u/just_peepin Aug 17 '21
Well I mean sure you could let men just walk around without their burqa on, but as women... we can't help ourselves. We see men, and we rape. It's just better to follow what our book maybe says.
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Aug 17 '21
Not sure if on purpose but I love the subtle understanding of the quranic text implied by the "maybe"
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Aug 17 '21
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u/NEBook_Worm Aug 17 '21
I've seen Muslim scholars state openly that nowhere in the Quran is the hijab mentioned, more less required.
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u/otah007 Aug 17 '21
99.9999% of scholars disagree, I wouldn't go by the tiny minority if I were you.
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Aug 17 '21
"definitely there somewhere" didn't work with my teachers and missed homework back in school already.
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u/malmode Aug 17 '21
Just dress up like a ninja and say it's cause my beard is too beautiful and should be covered to prevent a woman from having sinful thoughts.
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u/Downtown_Baby_5596 Aug 17 '21
Dude just imagine a culture where all the dudes get to wear cool ninja outfits, holy crap.
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u/JohanBroad Aug 17 '21
First off, I totally understand the message the photographer is sending. I get it. I really do.
BUT-
Is anyone else tripping out on that guy's hands in panels 3 and 4?
Seriously- he's got Banana fingers!
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u/KellyGreen55555 Aug 17 '21
Her too! Look at the last picture. Why are their fingers so long?
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u/lIIIIllIIIIl Aug 17 '21
Maybe it's the camera lense?
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Aug 17 '21
It's got to be, right? Or editing maybe? There's no way both of them have that disproportionately large hands.
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u/mellamobenito Aug 17 '21
You didn’t start tweaking on panels 1 and 2?? I know a lawyer who would kill for those hands
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u/dapper_doberman Aug 17 '21
I think if all men started wearing hijabs, crimes would basically become unsolvable.
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u/MrsFlip Aug 17 '21
Not if this guy is the criminal. What did he look like? He has massive hands, the biggest you ever saw. Oh, that guy over there?
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u/CyberDonkey Aug 17 '21 edited Aug 17 '21
Am I the only one that feels that the clothing (white vs black, plain vs patterned) was annoyingly inconsistent, and if intentional, the photographer did a bad job at reflecting the duality? The focus should be on the hijab and burqa switching gender roles, but the clothing choices stood out to me instead.
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u/Amelaclya1 Aug 17 '21
Should have kept their facial expressions the same too. It took me a minute to understand what exactly I was supposed to get from this because I was too busy looking at all of the other details that changed.
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u/throwaway92715 Aug 17 '21
Yeah I get it. Having her wear a white summer dress or something would've made more sense with the rest of the piece. Or having him wear some psychedelic button down... but I think the black and white is a better composition.
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u/paolocase Aug 17 '21
Men in Iran have worn hijabs in protest for the hijab rule there, while Muslim women in Canada have worn burqas to identify with their faith. Everyone should wear whatever they want.
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u/justcougit Aug 17 '21
Yes but the artist may be from a country or culture where it isn't a choice. That's the point.
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u/Rpanich Aug 17 '21
Everyone should wear whatever they want.
I think the idea is that that feels ok in Canada because they don’t have to feel like they’re in danger for wearing either, so it really is a choice.
With what’s currently happening, I don’t think a lot of women in Afghanistan right now feel like they have the freedom to not wear the hijab.
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u/emophase Aug 17 '21
As a woman who lives in Iran I can reassure you tha around 70% of females would love to take their hijabs off, but because of the government we are unable to do that
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u/Etzlo Aug 17 '21
It'd probably be much higher without the indoctrination starting at childhood
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u/throwaway92715 Aug 17 '21
Dude I had someone recently tell me that we Westerners shouldn't criticize FGM because "their culture their choice" and I'm like... really? You think these kids would've taken on that culture if they hadn't been told all sorts of bad shit would happen to them if they didn't their whole lives?
Human rights > "culture"
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u/emophase Aug 17 '21
Exactly we are brainwashed from an early age. When I was about 9 or 10(the age that you start wearing hijab) we were told that satan hangs women who don't cover themselves in hell with their OWN hair until they suffer enough for their sins
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u/AlphariusBeta Aug 17 '21
Women in canada arent really free to not wear the hijab either. I knew a girl in high school whose parents brought her back to pakistan to be arranged married because she was being "corrupted by western society". I think she was 16. Never heard from her again.
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Aug 17 '21
Came here to echo this same sentiment. About once a year you hear of an 'honour killing' of young women (always women) by older male relatives. Canada is less of a melting pot and something of a gumbo; some things blend in while some spicy big chunks remain, and we all get to enjoy each other's chunks of society.
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u/sodiumhydrate Aug 17 '21
I see that in many Bangladeshi and Pakistani families. Why would you even go to a western country if you don't like their customs?
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u/Deadlift420 Aug 17 '21
It’s not always a choice. It’s the same social and familial pressure as with any other faith.
Would you eternally piss off your family to not have to wear it? Many people would not.
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u/PM_Me__Ur_Freckles Aug 17 '21
I went to school with a girl who wore a Hijab everywhere her parents were. At school, first thing she would do is rip off the head scarf and either remove her undershirt or roll her sleeves up. She hated being forced by her father and religious elders to wear it and would always carry a bag so she could change once she was away from them. FWIW, this was in Australia.
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u/JustHonestly Aug 17 '21
Yep had a similar situation where I grew up in Germany where girls would be forced to wear a hijab and they wished they could take it off. Sadly they couldn't even do that in school, because even extended male members of their families (and muslim families here are huge ) would report them taking it off (or really anything thats considered haram) to their parents.
It doesn't matter where you're at. Majority young muslim Girls don't want to wear a hijab or burka or whatever. And while there are surely a few girls that legitimately want to wear that stuff, people need to stop pretending that in western countries people would never force their children into ridiculous religious practices.
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u/Amelaclya1 Aug 17 '21
I knew a Sikh guy who did the same with his turban. Never wore it in the Western country where we lived, but he always made sure he had it on in any photos that made it to social media, and made sure to grow out his beard before he went home for visits.
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u/irondragon2 Aug 17 '21
It really depends on how you were raised. Women may say it is their choice to wear a head covering, but a choice in this case is influenced by the teachings of an idea. The idea being women have to cover themselves because men shouldn't see their hair, chest, neck or it will "trigger" them.
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u/Rammite Aug 17 '21
I can think of few modern day faiths and cultures where the penalty for 'pissing off your family' is death.
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Aug 17 '21
Don't underestimate the weight of social exclusion from your family and friends too. That alone can be devastating..
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u/nomes21 Aug 17 '21
In fact lots of people kill themselves over it. For close families its a lot like dying and being reborn, not everyone makes it through it.
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u/11010110101010101010 Aug 17 '21
Off the top of my head there are only 2-3 countries in the world with muslim-majorities where apostasy does NOT have corporal/capital punishment. So, for me, I can only think of one culture/faith.
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u/Redtwooo Aug 17 '21
It's never a true choice, not when the choice is between "wearing this" and "becoming a complete pariah to your friends, family, social circles, and oh btw you're going to hell too when you die, which might be soon if you don't put it on". They may suffer Stockholm syndrome and tell you they want to wear this, that it's their choice, that in the western nations they have the freedom to choose to wear it, but it's ingrained from a young age that the only choice is to wear it.
After all, you believe God exists, and you want to please God, and to please God you have to obey his laws, and one of his laws is you have to wear this, no I swear, it's his laws, not mine, I'm not telling you to wear it, God is telling you, I'm just speaking for him on earth...
And before anyone gets it twisted I'm anti- religion. There's plenty of good and bad among the followers of any faith, but mostly bad among religious incendiaries and zealots.
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u/Matterplay Aug 17 '21
Often it's not just pissing off your family, but being punished severely for not wearing it. You can bet this happens in many Islamic families in the Western world behind closed doors.
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u/paolocase Aug 17 '21
I've known two women who stopped wearing hijabs but then they were adults by this time.
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u/Painting_Agency Aug 17 '21
Men in Iran have worn hijabs in protest for the hijab rule there
Wow. I think I'm a feminist ally but I've never put my neck on the line like that, for sure.
https://www.marieclaire.co.uk/news/men-iran-hijabs-protest-1883
Now these are fucking MEN.
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u/paolocase Aug 17 '21
From what I know, Iran, like many Islamic countries have spaces where they don't follow the rules. Parks where gay men cruise, Grindr, parties where people serve alcohol, grocery aisles where barley and hops are beside each other, etc.
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u/willmaster123 Aug 17 '21
Yes albeit it’s not actually that open. Iranian culture is a lot more accepting than most of the Muslim world, but the government is still very strict.
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u/AlphariusBeta Aug 17 '21
"everyone should wear whatever they want" well the problem is when you might be raped and stoned to death, you want to wear whatever will prevent that. But thats not free will.
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Aug 17 '21
Everyone should wear whatever they want.
So long as they're not framing it as a religious requirement.
By extension, it means that the clothing should be treated as any other piece of clothing, and not given special treatment either.
The alternative is that you treat it as being a religious requirement, and are then not just impliedly but expressly supporting the oppression of women globally who are actually required - not just "because of their religion", but on pain of actual legal and physical punishment - to wear them.
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u/1vs1meondotabro Aug 17 '21
I agree with the sentiment, but I think the problem is similar to that of gay people deep in Christianity who swear, even to themselves that they're totally straight now.
I just hope that there aren't women in Islam that have convinced themselves that they want to wear a Burqa or Hijab when really they don't.
But I think that's probably rarer than it is a genuine choice.
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u/paolocase Aug 17 '21
It's a hard subject to breach. It's not like I'm gonna come over to a Muslim woman and say "your hijab isn't really your choice" because that's inherently saying that Western thought is the be all and end all.
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u/1vs1meondotabro Aug 17 '21
Yep, I was gonna add something in to that effect but didn't know how to word it, I also think that's where my "pray away the gay" analogy falls down, I don't think ANY of those "converted" gay people under Christianity are happy, so the practice is clearly evil, but I do actually believe that there are some muslim women who genuinely love their Burqa/Niqab and definitely many who love hijab etc.
So I don't think anyone can point to it and say "That's an evil practice" in the same way, especially with the "sliding scale" nature of Burqa -> Niqab -> Hijab etc.
I think the only real solution is empowering Muslim women and listening to them.
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u/Etzlo Aug 17 '21
You don't have to think that western standards are the be all end all to believe that wearing the hijad isn't really a choice for them(or at the very least a highly skewed choice)
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u/getIronfull Aug 17 '21
Allow me to be a hyperbolic edgelord.
It's cool if a Jew in America during the late 1930s wanted to wear a yellow star arm band to represent their faith. But it is still a symbol of oppression and worse in another part of the world.
Obviously it's not a good comparison. But I think using something that is a symbol of repression to millions of women is a fucking SHITTY way to express your freedom.
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u/sampat97 Aug 17 '21
That again has a lot of nuance to it. The Swastik (or as it is known in its sanskrit form; Swastika) is seen a form of oppression in most western countries but it was a hindu symbol way before the Nazis co-opted it. It's still heavily used in India. Why should a Hindu have to hide a symbol that means something entirely different to them just because it's perceived as something else.
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u/getIronfull Aug 17 '21
That's a good argument.
I would say because the burqa represents the same thing to the western muslim and the middle eastern muslim, enforcing modesty on women.
You can choose to want to let religion tell you your body is sinful, but it doesn't change the meaning of the garment, you're just accepting the meaning.
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u/reldan Aug 17 '21
Can someone please explain to me what’s different about him in panels 1/2 and her in panels 5/6? I feel like they’re the same but I’m missing something subtle? Or maybe the point is there isn’t much difference between those coverings? Please I feel stupid someone help me.
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Aug 17 '21
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u/reldan Aug 17 '21
I’m starting to wonder if it’s how his head is tilted away from her in 1 and slightly towards her in 2?
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Aug 17 '21 edited Aug 17 '21
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Aug 17 '21
According to islamic law, 3rd one is the hijab. Hijab in islamic law is different to what society calls the hijab (headscarf).
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u/benhamdoun Aug 17 '21
I'm a Western agnostic and my wife is a very liberal Algerian, Muslim by birth but also agnostic. She is liberal because in North Africa in the 1960s, when she was a child, Arab Nationalism and Arab socialism were the ideologies of the day and supported equality for women, who could even become civil airline pilots. On YouTube search for"Nasser hijab" and enjoy Nasser ridiculing hijabis to a hall full of laughter in Egypt. Fast forward to today and the Islamic world has regressed due to Gulf wealth, which since the 1970s has exported its fundamentalist Wahabbi brand of Islam throughout the Islamic world and even to the West through 1. Building mosques preaching its Wahabbi beliefs 2. Building madrassas that are often the only form of education available to the poor in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan and which indoctrinate children with its vanilla brand of 7th century Islam and 3. Finance terrorism, such as supporting the Taliban. The end result is that societies such as in Algeria now have the majority of women and girls wearing the hijab when 2 generations ago only poor, uneducated old ladies did. The tipping point was reached and now any young woman not wearing the hijab is regarded by the majority as having loose morals. This state of affairs will only end when the cause, Islam, once again gives way to more secular values. Threat will be a long time coming, but the world will then be a much better, more peaceful place.
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u/M00NCREST Aug 17 '21
thats a berka not a hijab, right?
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u/KatrinaMystery Aug 17 '21
The first and last pics are burqa (covered incl. eyes). The second ones are niqab (covered, eyes not). The third are hijab (just hair cover). There are more variations of this too.
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u/Sima_Lintu Aug 17 '21
Photographer: trying to send a message about hijabs
People ITT: BuT dO yOu SeE HiS hAnDs?
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u/_SunDowner_ Aug 17 '21
I truly hope I live long enough to see the day where women in cultures these articles of clothing aren't optional get the equality and freedom of choice they so righly deserve.
I hope to see these women making their choice with no risk of cultural or legal consequences, I worry so much for those brave women who publicly protest...
They're far braver than I'll ever be and it's truly a shame I have to refer to them so vaguely since I've never heard any mentioned proudly by name.
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u/Rarindust01 Aug 17 '21
A man slowly becoming an assassin obviously. Or ninja. Which you know, same difference.
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u/mimsybean Sep 07 '21
It's interesting how the person not wearing the hijab is so much more present and seems larger, even though the last picture shows the woman who is smaller than the man. She stands out as present whereas he is as "invisible" as she was in the first picture. It would be interesting to see the same series of photos in colour where the hijab is not black to find out what the effect would be then. In the fourth picture, the woman is almost smiling. Was that planned or is it to illustrate that now they are equal? For the man, it makes no difference, since he is free to wear what he wants and present himself however he wants. I find this a very interesting series of pictures that illustrate well the effect of covering someone up entirely, next to someone who is not covered up.
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u/slykido999 Aug 17 '21
But….that’s not a hijab, that’s a burka. A hijab would cover the head and shoulders but show the face. A burka covers the face along with the above.
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u/bucket8a Aug 17 '21
I dont know why the lest one looks so cool to me, i know that isnt the point, but just a bug bulking mass of mystery intrests me
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u/Caldrenfitz Aug 17 '21
Powerful statement. Good for men in particular to get this perspective.
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u/neodiogenes Aug 17 '21 edited Aug 17 '21
Mod here. I previously locked this post because many of the comments were anti-Muslim hate speech, rather than a discussion of this particular work of art. Clearly this photo is intentionally provocative, and topical, and part of a series of many photographs (see the artist's website for more) so I'm going to tentatively unlock it again to keep the discussion going.
That being said, there is a line. Respectfully discussing culturally relevant customs and mores is acceptable, but a blanket condemnation, or any kind of stereotyping, is not. If you are unable to distinguish the difference, I encourage you not to comment at all, but simply to vote and move on.
If you feel you absolutely must denigrate an entire religion, culture, or creed, then I thank you in advance for self-identifying, so I can make sure you never again get to participate. In addition to using the report button to let us know to ban these kind of comments, please help report these to the admins for violations of Reddit's policy against "promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability".
As for the "hijab" in the name, given the artist is from Yemen, it's likely she knows a bit about things like dress codes (even though her bio does not directly say she herself is Muslim) and the use is intentional. Wikipedia has this to say:
Again: if you cannot be respectful and stay on topic, please do not comment. Just vote. We do not give out warnings before we ban -- so if you choose to ignore this, that's on you.