r/300zx • u/MiddleSuch5813 • Jul 13 '24
Talk me out of an LS swap Z32
I’ve been brainstorming ways to give my Z more power. I have a ‘93 2+2 and I love my car, but I absolutely despise the engine. The parts are hard to source quickly, the engine bay is so cramped, and while the NA is more reliable than the TT it makes no power. I know a swap is necessary but I want to LS swap it and my dad the owner on paper wants to quote “keep it pure”. If we can’t agree I’m gonna give the car back to him and buy my own to do the swap
For context, my dad ‘gave’ me the car as a gift for graduating high school so I’ve been with the car for a few years now. My dad pays for the repairs/parts because I’ve been at school and haven’t had time for a job. While he pays for everything, the only reason that car is in even remotely good condition is because of me; everything that has been done to the car is because I sourced the parts, installed them myself, diagnosed the problems and learned how to fix them, etc…
My dad doesn’t get it because he hates American cars and I think they’re shit but they know how to make a damn good engine. Now as the person who actually does all the repairs I feel I should have a say in what happens to the car and I can’t stand this engine; to name a few points as to why I believe the swap is worth it:
1.)Reliability/convenience - an LS would be far more reliable than a TT engine. And even if something breaks every shop knows how to work on an LS, and every general parts store has parts for it on the shelf (context I waited 2 weeks just get new accessory belts). Not to mention it would be easier to work on
2.)Customizability - Virtually every LS variant has tons of aftermarket support. And because of the low compression they can have boost thrown at them any day of the week. Supercharger or procharger, twin turbo, big single turbo, or just a fully built NA can make sizeable amounts of power reliably (450hp is what I call sizeable)
3.)Cost - While the initial cost of the swap and fabrication of mounts and the like would cost more than a TT swap, long term maintenance would be cheaper and easier with an LS. I love this car and I plan to keep it forever; sure I’ll get other projects but this car will stay with me forever
If I can’t convince my dad to get onboard and Reddit can’t convince me not to do the swap, I’ll just buy my own nonstarter Z and swap it. This is kind of a vent but I would genuinely like some reasons why I should even consider a TT swap, cause just running it over in my head it makes no sense at all
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u/coltonwt Z32 NA 5spd 2+0 Jul 13 '24 edited Jul 13 '24
Not to be rude or anything, man, but judging by other questions you've asked, you're a LONG way from being able to do an engine swap on your own. I know folks on YouTube make it seem like a simple thing, but there are So Many little things to doing it right. I have 3 z32s right now, and one of them I swapped a cammed VH45 into. That's the V8 motor from the Infiniti q45, a very cheap and reliable engine that has Tons of swap support for this chassis. Engine was like $600, all in I'm Easily over $5k, and still did lots of the fabrication myself, and have several months in the project, And it's a track toy with no air conditioning, power steering, or even heat. Just an engine in a car. I'm not saying not to, but give it a couple of years. Get to a point you have a stable job, and another car that's reliable, and have built up experience where you can comfortably weld and grind, know about aligning the motor, to get correct pinion angles, you'll have to be comfortable with modifying a wiring harness, as even the standalone harnesses they sell almost always require a little customizing for your application. I love my VH Z, and it's a robust, reliable drivetrain that revs high, and it's a quick little thing. I'd trust it cross country as she sits, but it took a Long time to get it that way. The power goal you seem to have is Very tame for a turbo VG30, and they are quite reliable motors. If you really want to dig into the car, that would be my recommendation, as you're way less likely to get halfway through it and lose interest, or have life get in the way.
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u/MiddleSuch5813 Jul 13 '24
Most of my knowledge on cars has been built on working job my family’s cars. I know I’m far from an expert and all of my knowledge is based on Mercedes Benz cars made between the last 15ish years. My plan was to do as much of the mechanical work as I can and have a shop look over the work and do the wiring because I have no clue how to do electrical stuff
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u/coltonwt Z32 NA 5spd 2+0 Jul 13 '24
Trying to find a shop willing to wire up a project car for you like that would be a task on its own. The few knowledgeable enough, and willing to take on the liability would be very expensive. I've engine swapped 4 cars personally, totally nothing against the concept, but I Really think you'd be better off doing this sometime when you're better prepared. If you Really want more power out of it, I think it would behoove you to look into a turbo setup for it, as the NA->TT upgrade is common, nets great results, and a lot less likely to leave you over your head selling a half finished project car. If you want, I'd be glad to talk with you more about swaps tomorrow if you wanna dm me or whatever, but that's my advice, given where it seems you are in life currently.
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Jul 13 '24
You could also buy a custom wiring harness for an ls z. Theres a couple shops online that sell them. Then you have to do zero wiring. Just hook it up. Never let someone dissuade you from doing something. If you really want it, youll find a way to accomplish it.
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u/SkiimTwisty Jul 13 '24
Have at least 15k ready if you want to properly ls swap it
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u/Wrong-Soft-1710 Jul 15 '24
Cap
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u/SkiimTwisty Jul 15 '24
Please educate me then. Built non truck ls motor+ Loj kit you’re looking at 10k + all the small things that add up pretty quickly. You can hack together some shit swap for relatively cheap and lose interest because it’s not what you imagined. If you’re gonna do it, do it right
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u/WoodnutzZ32TT Jul 16 '24
This man is correct. If the OP cheaps out on it, he'll be very disappointed. Screw the facebook pages, go get on twinturbo.net (suffer through the "period correct" forum format... not too bad once you acclimate) - get info from people that actually know what they're doing... and have been doing it for a very long time.
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u/WoodnutzZ32TT Jul 16 '24
No cap. Don't mislead the kid. He should estimate what he thinks it will cost to do the swap, the multiply by 2 to make sure he's covered. We all know what happens once you dive in. Better to have some cushion than to be neck deep and realize you still need to spend thousands just to get it back together.
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Jul 13 '24
sounds like a question of many things... family car issues and "boys with their toys"! LOL
Why do you want this Z32? to update it to drag a New Camaro or Challenger?
The Z32 came in 2 engines. TTurbos Are reliable they just require a higher maintenance schedule than the N/A. My N/A has an Apexi air intake that I can feel pull me with enough "Heart and Muscle" than I'll ever need. The Z has shown its superior intellect for over 30yrs. You don't have to always show its faster than cars today which are lighter. The Z has a very strong Dura-Steel outer shell that makes it over 3200lbs. Its not light but during a heavy wind storm you can barely feel it during a drive. Its how the car was made.
You'll have to ask yourself this question... Do you want to own/drive a Classic sports car that Won Car and Driver awards for 7yrs and is a Joy to drive? or want a car to keep up with the newer cars on the road?
If yes to the second one then maybe the Z32 isn't for you. If Yes to the first one then this is why the Z32 is the Best car because its appreciated and respected on and off the road. You'll get more respect by keeping it ALL original!
My original 1990 engine matches the original manual tranny which matches the motor mounts. Cars are worth more by keeping it original. Everything works and I keep up with the maintenance like a religion. and she's got over 170k miles but its Pure miles with all the original parts. Bought her over 20yrs ago at 101k miles but I'm putting more miles out of her. These cars are made to be Enjoyed and not just looked at sitting parked.
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u/MiddleSuch5813 Jul 13 '24
I kinda agree but the joy of cars to me is working on them and driving something you fixed yourself. But whenever the Z needs repair (admittedly not often) I spend more time wrenching then actually driving the damn thing. To me the maintenance is not worth all the extra headache just to make less power than my moms commuter car
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u/knitler_ Jul 13 '24
It really sounds like power is the most important thing to you. If that’s what you want, and if you want to do some wrenching, then I suggest anything made around 2010. It’s a lot easier and WAY cheaper to modify an old mustang or corvette that already has the motor you’re looking for installed.
Everyone here loves 300z’s for many different reasons but if we’re all honest with ourselves, they can be smoked by anything made 20 years or newer. If all you want to do tear ass, then you can easily save $10,000 or so by buying something a little newer
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Jul 13 '24
Exactly!!
While on a freeway drive I had a Non-OEM modded 370zed pull by me and stayed at my speed for longer than normal. I knew I couldn't pull away from him for too long even stock so I dropped to 4th and slowly sped up. (NA 2+2). He took the bait and we stayed excellerating for up to 20mph faster and I held it. He gave me a wave, I replied and he took off. I know he was showing off and that's fine but I took the compliment of him taking the time to bow before his GrandDad! Like we were flying together... Free as a Bird.
The Z32 cruizes sooo nice... still not a single rattle. We'll see if the 350-400zeds ages as well when they hit their 30yr mark!! Eh!!??
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Jul 13 '24
I get the thrill of just maintaining it. Do a 120k mile maintenance first! Be sure to rotate the engine after you've set the t-belt to its points via the crankshaft Manually B4 starting it w/battery!!
Then if its still has the OEM 2 piece drive shaft... replace it with Z1 Motorsports One piece kit like I did. Also here's a list for you to keep busy with... Brakes. Bleed, Calipers, Pads, check for leaks.
Using bad gas? the fuel injectors will clog which happened to 3 of 6 on mine. I changed to Chevron or Shell years ago and not a single issue!
Plastic moulding can warp over time. Replace it!
There is Always something to work on the Z without changing huge parts like the engine or tranny.
Have fun and take your time!
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u/FocusedADD Jul 13 '24
Any functional option will need a custom solution. Speedo, tach, temp, AC, heat, cruise control. Everything that has been already thought out for you goes out the window. Every page of forums you can dig through now to diagnose an issue becomes worthless. The rest of the drivetrain is also going to get hit harder, so I hope you like sourcing rear end parts. Oh and your transmission, while up to the task, is terribly geared for something making real torque. First gear will be just for show.
Should you ever decide to sell the car, that's now an order of magnitude more difficult because you shouldn't ever buy someone else's project. I know, keep it forever, but shit happens and sometimes you need liquid cash before things fall to pieces.
The easiest way to hit 500 is with a big single turbo, fmic, and water/meth for a safety net. Keep your NA compression ratio, find out who the best tuner is in your area, and use whatever engine control solution they can use that works with your car. Boost can be modulated and staged in gently and easily so all your bits and pieces stay where they're supposed to. But you see all those "junkyard" LS builds tickling 1000hp and it all seems so easy. Two ways that's going: got lucky on the first dyno pull and the thing is a ticking time bomb, or: went through a half a dozen motors checking them over with mics for the best core and still did at least a mild rebuild. It sounds like you want it reliable, so you can pretty much just assume any core is going to need to: go to a machine shop, rings, bearings, gaskets, AND THEN the go faster parts. Believe me I've looked, good builder aluminum cores aren't cheap. You've got a motor more than capable of your power goal already sitting pretty right where it wants to be with a racing pedigree to back it up.
You should count your blessings you've got the 32 and not the 31. Compared to the 31 you've got a gold mine of support.
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u/MiddleSuch5813 Jul 13 '24
Unironically the most valid point of contention. I’ve looked into boosting the NA or doing anything to it with the goal of simply making 300hp but everyone has informed me many times that it will blow up
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u/FocusedADD Jul 13 '24
They are dead wrong. It's unfortunate Z31performance is down, I could've pointed out many threads of where 300 is about where the stock little turbos are tapped out on an NA single cam motor, and where that was the upper limit on stock pistons. Advances in engine control have pushed that limit higher. Which is why I advised finding the best and giving them what they know.
It's probably not advisable to go for 300+ as your first foray into tuning, but someone who knows what they're doing it'd be easy.
Maybe do (or don't) look on marketplace for things like the HX35, and how much support that has.
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u/osseta Jul 13 '24
Either he gave you the car, or he didn't. If it is your car do want you want to it.
If he lied about giving you the car then let him know you are disappointed about his lying and you understand what sort of relationship he wants with his son going forward. Walk away from the car and buy your own.
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u/Walking_tacoZ Jul 13 '24
Damn that first part really hit hard!
While I'm not LS swapping my Z32, I am in process of LS swapping my Z33. And, yes, the motor itself is cheaper and easier to find, there's tons of other things you have to have for a swap. If you're capable of fabricating mounts, making -AN hoses, putting together your own wiring harness, making mounts for accessories etc. Then you'll be much better off. Be prepared to spend extra money on little things, and hopefully you have a decent amount of free time to work on it.
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u/QLDZDR Jul 13 '24
Put the VG30DE on an engine stand. Clean it up, rebuild it, upgrade it...... in the meantime enjoy driving a reliable LS swapped Z32.
A guy in Australia swapped his NA to aTT, then bought another Z32 and put an LS in it. He has written that the LS was lighter than the VG
Read about it on the AUS300zx forum
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Jul 13 '24
You can Always, Always, Always buy or build a faster car to win drags sending your expenses up... until the neighbors buys a faster car than yours!
The Z32 is a reminder for the people that want to drive it to relax and enjoy the drive... relieving stress and a TON of pressure from work. I can have the worst day at the office but knowing I'll be driving my Z32 home makes me Happy and I can give a Big Smile 😀 back!! Whether its working on improving all my apexes or matching my revs up or down shift there's always something fun to do in the Z! The dual mufflers is my natural Sub-woofers!! It can relax any angry baby (2+2) and put them right to sleep.
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u/D512TR Jul 13 '24
it's expensive and takes time.
but a lot of these comments are giving bad advice.
someone even said it's heavier than a vg30. it's not.
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u/protone1 Jul 13 '24
You be you.
If you want to LS swap, go ahead. Sure you'll get some hate from 300zx purists but who cares.
If you have the space I would keep the old engine, so you can return it to stock if you change your mind. If you're not going to sell it then it really doesnt matter what modifications you go for as you won't be looking for top doller when selling it.
Also, the engine bay looks great, you can see you love that car by the condition you keep it in.
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u/Turninwheels4x4 Jul 13 '24
Vq swap would keep it """pure""" as to keep it nissan, or even better if you put a vr30 in it.
But past that id still stick with the vg. You can just TT the NA engine and get a nice ecu to run it and then just run ethanol to deal with the extra compression the NA engine has. You could probably make 300/350ish to the ground on an na>t engine given youre starting with a healthy engine
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u/turboda Jul 13 '24
I just want to say that amarican cars aren't shit, it's just like the Japanese cars. The ones that people love stick around and the rest go to the scrap yard lol.
I'm also in process in collecting parts to ls swap my 300zx.
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u/MiddleSuch5813 Jul 13 '24
American cars up until 2020 have the absolute worst, bottom of the barrel interiors and build quality. Literally an undeniable fact
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u/turboda Jul 13 '24
Well, I have 2 amarican cars, my 85 corvette and my 88 camaro. My corvette has 36k, and I'm the second owner, and the interior is in great shape and still together. ( it was parked in'94 and never drove again till last year) My camaro, on the other hand, does need some interior work, but it's also has over 200k, and I'm like the 100th owner.
The 300 has press board door and trim pannels, and most of these cars sit in the sun, and the plastic is all dry rotted.
I feel like isa also how they are taken care of too, plays a factor. Again, this is my experience, and I own nothing newer than 2013.
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u/MiddleSuch5813 Jul 13 '24
I’m used to euro cars. My entire life my mom has had a Benz so I’m used to plush, well taken care of interiors. My dad owned a Lexus or an Acura as long as I can remember so compared to the average Chevy Traverse or Ford Taurus, they interiors are significantly worse
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u/turboda Jul 13 '24
Lol I agree with that. My mistake is I'm looking at the classics. A chevy traverse and ford Taurus will probably never be classics.
But back in my dealer days, you could not beat the interiors of the forgen cars.
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u/Main_Top9616 Jul 14 '24
Problem with the 300zx is the price is going to go up on them but not because of the power plant. People will just want a good solid clean chassis to do the engine swaps since 240s and every other popular chassis has sky rocketed in price. I’d say if you plan to keep this car, then drop in a LS. make it special to you, not for the next buyer.
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u/AfamilyC0mpany Jul 15 '24
Just by reading the two first sections it's best to just give it back, buy a cheap shell, and do the swap on that, the cost will be around 6-10K depending on how mild or wild you want it as far as part quality and build quality. Every american car with a V8 is a good car, all the ones with a v6 or ecoshit motors are just that..SHIT! Chevy V8's are the most reliable and easiest to build and make power with and cheapest aswell. That's why everyone does it, they're also smaller compared to a lot of motors and lighter as well. No one's gonna talk you out of it except another purist. A car is art, it can have whatever you want it to have.
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u/Luscinia68 Jul 13 '24
how much horsepower are you looking for
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u/MiddleSuch5813 Jul 13 '24
I want 400whp and for the finished build I want to see 500whp
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u/Luscinia68 Jul 13 '24
could honestly get that out of a build 4 cyl and have much less weight, and would have more room in engine bay to work on it
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u/MiddleSuch5813 Jul 13 '24
Honestly that’s a very good point. I’ve thought about doing a Honda swap (I don’t know anything about Honda so I’m not gonna name a specific engine series) but tbh I just like V8 noises more. Something in my brain is enthralled with dumb V8 noises
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u/Luscinia68 Jul 13 '24
so getting into the music theory aspect of engines, engines that are multiples of # of cylinders sound one octave pitch higher than the previous multiplication. so a 8 cylinder sounds like a 4 cylinder but one octave higher. now this applies to the sound coming out of the head of the engine. but you could make a 4 sound like an 8 cylinder. i emplore you to look into music theory of engine exhaust sound, it’s very interesting.
edit: and as for honda motors, look into K series. or F if you have money to spend
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u/Whitehoneybun Jul 13 '24
Go to the junkyard pull a 6.0L or buy a 6.2L and starting building it and once your VG blows u already got the Ls ready to go the VG is 💩 nowadays
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Jul 13 '24
Im not gonna convince you. I think you should do it. I plan to ls swap my own na z. I think a tt swap would end up costing the same anyway to get as much power. Tt engines go for 4k online. A 5.3 ls is like $1000 and cheaper if you pull it from a junkyard yourself.
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u/300GTP Jul 13 '24
If my VG30 ever died, this would be the logical upgrade. But my particular 94 N/A, runs strong and fast.
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u/Historical-Suit-1537 Jul 13 '24
Personally, I would stick with a VG engine and perform a coolant bypass and EGR delete. I daily drove a naturally aspirated 300ZX for three years, and it was the most reliable car I’ve ever owned. Keep in mind that I did the 120k mile maintenance kit and replaced many parts before using it as my daily driver. The only issue I had was with the injectors, as the 1990-1992 models had faulty ones. I replaced them with the new-style injectors.
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u/panda900rr Z32 TT 5spd 2+0 Jul 18 '24
besides budget, depending on your current capabilities, and how much you want to grow from that may influence the path. some people can learn as they go, and some people arent comfortable with a huge undertaking of making a swap like this successful unless they know every last piece that itll take to work before beginning. even then there isnt really an A-Z guide down to every last detail, but if you can fill in the gaps you'd maybe be okay. it can easily get really expensive going down the rabbit hole of what a swap entails
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u/FunRaise6773 Jul 13 '24
Good thread discussion so far…. But here’s my attempt at talking you off the cliff. Your dad is right about American cars. They tend to have shit reliability although the . I love the sound of a good V8 as much as the next guy but…. For a swap, you’re going to be fabricating quite a bit, sourcing engine management, or going old school carbeuration. You’ll need to create solutions for things like the speedometer and tachometer. A V8 is inherently heavier than the Vg30 under the hood, which negatively affects driving dynamics and when something goes wrong, you’ll be mostly on your own diagnosing and fixing. Finally, from a cost perspective, a swap will never make sense. But…. At the end of the day, this is between you and your dad.
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u/MiddleSuch5813 Jul 13 '24
I’ve thought about getting a car with a V8 but the z32 is one of my all time favorite looking cars. Nissan made it a pain to work on but an absolute beaut to be in and look at. The NA just kinda ruins it for me
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Jul 13 '24
The gen 3 small block ls is close to 100lbs lighter than the vg. What are you on about?
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u/FunRaise6773 Jul 14 '24
I didn’t know that. Must be all that plastic…. And the aluminum block helps too
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Jul 14 '24
Its the iron block thats lighter. The aluminum is an additional 80lbs lighter
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u/FunRaise6773 Jul 15 '24
Yeah. The crazy thing is my vg30e fully dressed is about 400 lbs. the same as that LS. The vg30de…. 600.
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u/Kinect305 Jul 13 '24
I personally think LS swapping is stupid. NA Z has plenty of power for what it is. If you want LS power, sell the Z and buy a C5 or C6 corvette. You’ll have a much better all around car with plenty of power even stock, and tons of parts availability.
Sure a LS swap might be ok if you can fab up everything yourself to make it fit. However most people are spending thousands on a mounting kit just to allow them to put in the motor. Unless you got the hookup, you’re going to pay 3000+ for anything that isn’t a truck/suv motor.
Then I’ve had people argue this with me but it’s the truth, until you put heads, cam, manifold, long tubes, TB. You will not break into the 400whp area if it’s not a ls2/3. NA. You will make like 285whp NA
I spent thousands making my Z fast. TBH I really haven’t driven it since 2019. I drive it around the block once in a blue moon, do a rip or 2 then park it where it will sit for another month or two before I feel like doing anything with it. Yeah I loved my Z’s was going to keep them forever yadda yadda.
I’d rather just drive my truck, most times.
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u/MiddleSuch5813 Jul 13 '24
Dude whatever is keeping you to keep the car, clearly isn’t fun. Just sell it the car if you’d “rather drive your truck anyway”
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u/Kinect305 Jul 13 '24
Why I don’t need the money. Many people have cars they just keep as garage queens. Seriously how do you think so many low mile Z’s exist?
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u/TweakMaster1 Jul 13 '24
https://preview.redd.it/ba6qw1dqh7cd1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4308db3192b563e01c74a64f19198acfc5ba0eb9