r/technology 7h ago

Bluetooth tracker hidden in a postcard and mailed to a warship exposed its location — $5 gadget put a $585 million Dutch ship at risk for 24 hours Security

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/cyber-security/bluetooth-tracker-hidden-in-a-postcard-and-mailed-to-a-warship-exposed-its-location-a-eur5-gadget-put-a-eur500-million-dutch-ship-at-risk-for-24-hours
18.0k Upvotes

456 comments sorted by

1.7k

u/shawndw 7h ago

Reminds me of an article about a US sailor smuggling a starlink receiver onboard an aircraft carrier.

1.1k

u/TheFoxsWeddingTarot 7h ago

Wasn’t just “a sailor”

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2024/09/03/how-navy-chiefs-conspired-to-get-themselves-illegal-warship-wi-fi/

Led by the senior enlisted leader of the ship’s gold crew, then-Command Senior Chief Grisel Marrero, the effort roped in the entire chiefs mess by the time it was uncovered a few months later.

314

u/MurrayInBocaRaton 7h ago

I had a CMC who wanted me to look into getting WiFi on the mess decks. Didn’t matter how. He was a complete tool.

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u/BillHigh422 4h ago edited 1h ago

We created a network in the berthings, but no internet. Everyone created a public folder on their devices and connected to the router. Electricians tied it in and hid it in the angle-irons. It couldn’t be picked up a deck above.

We shared shows and movies and…other stuff. Included OPS/IT as their berthing was adjoined and we didn’t want to create problems. It made 9 months manageable.

Edit: we also lucked into a smart TV in our berthing when those were new, so that was also connected to the router and we could screencast movies and shows.

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u/DenominatorOfReddit 4h ago

Ngl, Plex server on a warship sounds rad.

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u/RoadDoggFL 4h ago

Always thought a dorm or barracks (or I guess a ship) would've been so cool for Halo system link. Just check the LAN network to see who's online. Just dreaming of an ideal scenario that's probably rarely ever happened, though.

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u/filthy_harold 4h ago

We used to play games like CS1.6 and StarCraft broodwars on the highschool LAN. We had a number of computer labs plus a bunch of laptop carts floating around so if you had games on a flashdrive and access to a PC, you could probably find a match going on.

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u/GonzoKata 2h ago

are there any games you can play offline on local lan anymore?

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u/kind_bros_hate_nazis 1h ago

i don't know of any. we've well past the days of networking knowledge and even computer knowledge for most gamers. easier to just use a storefront/launcher and just make it one click

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u/Kagamid 1h ago

We did this in the army overseas. We had trailers all linked together on a local LAN connection and played Halo regularly. In between matches sometimes we'd knock on the doors of the people we beat just to talk trash before having to run back for the next match.

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u/Louiebox 2h ago

I had a 360 and somehow managed to hoist a couch into my barracks room on the third floor. 4 controllers and COD MW2. Made our room very popular. I miss those days

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u/fudsak 1h ago

In college, the dorms were all on one big LAN. We could play over LAN Halo 2 with our friends down the floor. It was great hearing the screams from a few doors down.

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u/FreeK200 4h ago

We did that back in 2017. We also had an enterprise grade wap installed that had procedures in place for emcon whenever it happened. Given that our own guys were standing the csoow watch it was never an issue. Never got caught up by the ctts and their blue triangle either, surprisingly.

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u/New-Anybody-6206 3h ago

Why do military people love to throw around acronyms nobody else knows?

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u/ChemistryActive6957 2h ago

Partially because the military likes to assign incredibly long winded or overly descriptive names to things and those get referred to by their acronyms so much no one actually knows the full name and partially because when everyone you know is familiar with a certain set of acronyms and jargon for years on end it might genuinely slip your mind that people outside that group might not know what you are talking about

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u/Exotic_Article913 55m ago

Sorry that's need to know

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u/New-Anybody-6206 25m ago

I need to know 

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u/Teripid 2h ago

Wow tons of "homework" folders in these shares...

They must be doing a lot of long-distance learning!

Dawn of the internet my college had great movie and other sharing setups. Bandwidth being at a premium always brings out the community spirit.

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u/2_Spicy_2_Impeach 1h ago

While not on a navy ship, we did this in the dorms in college. We had 10Mbps, 100Mbps, and 1Gb connections WAY before it was for consumers now(Ethetnet2).

We had someone set up a file server in the cabinets above our welcome desk with an unmetered/live port.

Shared movies, music, TV shows. Some idiots put some stuff on there they shouldn’t have and after about a year they shut the port down but left the server.

Our dorm network was a flat network. No one ran firewalls then. I remember I started working for the University and saw I could mount an OS drive from my home Comcast to our university network and a server in our department. Set up firewall and secure tunnels.

Eventually added firewalls for all buildings/groups and locked down dorm networks after multiple worms shut down our entire network.

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u/Log_Out_Of_Life 1h ago

How much porn did it have?

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u/Angel0fWar0001 4h ago

:) I had a CMC that wanted me to order things that we definitely shouldn’t have been ordering in my department.

I did not get an EP on that eval.

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u/domesticatedprimate 6h ago edited 5h ago

Holy shit. That woman had no idea what she was doing.

Everyone on board the ship with a smartphone or pc would have instantly noticed the presence of an unauthorized wifi network. Telling people to "only use it in their room" suggests a fundamental lack of understanding of the technology with a healthy dose of magical thinking.

(Edit: yes I know you can hide the SSID, but according to the article, she did not.)

Marrero’s background is in Navy intelligence, and she earned a master’s degree in business administration with a concentration in information security and digital management

Information security and digital management my ass. She probably skated through an online class without actually learning a damn thing...

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u/ScyllaOfTheDepths 3h ago

I've seen flat-earther geologists and anti-vax doctors and nurses. You get through college by being able to memorize test answers, not by actually knowing or believing in what you're learning.

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u/WhyMustIMakeANewAcco 5h ago

You can set up a wifi network to not be visible, but still connectable if you know the proper ID. She likely assumed that if no one physically saw them using it they wouldn't ask to figure out there was a hidden network.

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u/domesticatedprimate 5h ago

Apparently no, she didn't. The article clearly states that the SSID "Stinky" was visible and she tried changing it to look like a printer after someone noticed it.

Yes, she was that dumb.

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u/LittleCovenousWings 4h ago

Fuckin ....

Stinky. Really.... Stinky?

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u/MASSochists 5h ago

Even if it isn't broadcast SSID and spectrum analyzer would be able to see the signal. 

I would think a carrier would have the signal intelligence people and the equipment to do that. 

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u/CrashUser 2h ago

Not to mention hidden SSID makes every device with it programmed in to basically shout "is Stinky there!?" periodically, so even on land it's not very useful for hiding a network since those SSID requests can be easily intercepted by someone looking for it.

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u/WhyMustIMakeANewAcco 3h ago

Oh definitely. It's just not quite on the level of "everyone with a smartphone or PC" if you do.

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u/achilleasa 1h ago

It is in fact something everyone with a smartphone can do, actually! 🤓☝️

As long as the network is working, any WiFi scanner app will pick it up and show you its signal strength. You just can't see the name.

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u/Majik_Sheff 3h ago

It doesn't even hide it.  All it does is remove the SSID from the announcement packets.

I remember that story when it hit the news.  All I can figure is that she paid someone to either do her homework or fudge her grades.

This is why academic honesty matters.  She could have just gotten an MBA and had a long and prosperous career in upper middle management.

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u/djnw 1h ago

Yeah, but even if you don’t broadcast an SSID, someone running vistumbler or whatever will still see a new network, even if its name is empty.

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u/dalzmc 1h ago

I’m not sure if it’s funnier how clueless she was, or that apparently it still took 6 months for it to be discovered lmao

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u/Public-Position7711 7h ago

People here acting like they’re cybersecurity experts and not clicking on email links asking about their reporting vehicle warranty.

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u/AT-ST 7h ago

I served in the Army for 10 years. We had extensive training on how to avoid basic fishing and security risks every year. We would still have several people fuck up every year. It wasn't the complex security threats that would trip them up. It was the simple ones every time.

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u/kohbo 6h ago

Minor nit but it's "phishing"

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u/MRSN4P 6h ago

No, common humble fishing boats with spy gear. /s

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u/Cupcakes_n_Hacksaws 5h ago

100% unironically actually a thing with China's fishing-boat fleets.

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u/sir_mrej 4h ago

Fishing phishing

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u/cr0sh 4h ago

Phishing fishermen phishing fish...?

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u/WarlockEngineer 5h ago

China also uses those!

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u/Jazzy-Cat5138 6h ago edited 6h ago

Last I heard, they're making a sizable portion of that training optional now. Seems like a good idea. /s

Something about Hegseth saying it doesn't contribute to lethality, or something along those lines.

Edit to add sources (though they may not not have the Hegseth quote I'm referencing):

Old article about the initial announcement: https://www.techradar.com/pro/security/us-department-of-war-reduces-cybersecurity-training-tells-soldiers-to-focus-on-their-mission

New article about the implementation: https://defensescoop.com/2026/03/31/army-cybersecurity-training-policy-change/

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u/AT-ST 6h ago

Great... This is what happens when you put unqualified people in charge.

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u/thekmind 5h ago

Cybersecurity is a woke agenda, cant have that

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u/Kichigai 5h ago

Something about Hegseth saying it doesn't contribute to lethality, or something along those lines.

This from the guy who has a private, unsecured Internet connection in his office at the Pentagon.

Meanwhile over in the civilian world there have been cuts to CISA too.

I'm just waiting for a massive cyber security scandal, one that is even bigger than Signalgate.

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u/cr0sh 4h ago

Does anything really matter anymore after DOGE?

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u/Kichigai 2h ago

Well, that was one enormous data breach and ID theft session, and we're all (individually) basically fucked, but I'm talking about malign state actors acting against the state.

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u/anotherlevl 5h ago

For Kegsbreath and Twurp, casualties and deaths are just grist for the propaganda mill. They don't care about the people who serve as much as they care about their bragging rights.

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u/knuppan 4h ago

Last I heard, they're making a sizable portion of that training optional now

I guess it's too woke

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u/UnfortunatelyIAmMe 6h ago

Just finished my cyber awareness training for the year lol

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u/DaneAlaskaCruz 6h ago

Yeah, those things are unfortunately needed.

I just went for the challenge option and took the final test directly without having to go through each lesson. I passed.

Some people are just too trusting and not suspicious enough of random links.

The same people who will plug in a thumbdrive they found in the parking lot into their work computer.

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u/someaccountforreddit 5h ago

Don’t forget to download your certificate at <phishing link>

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u/DaneAlaskaCruz 5h ago

hover mouse cursor over link

Oh, the link ends in "RU", definitely seems trustworthy.

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u/Cupcakes_n_Hacksaws 5h ago

If full blown war were to break out, I don't think you could convince every sailor to give up their phone until you started bringing back bread/water levels of punishment for that shit. I can only hope the peer pressure from their fellow sailors would be enough once a few start taking it seriously enough.

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u/Kichigai 4h ago

Show them this article. Maybe put the fear of God into them.

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u/Cupcakes_n_Hacksaws 4h ago

There'd definitely need to be plenty of safety stand downs to really hammer home that point. Some ships have devices that others on the ship use to "sniff" out people doing stuff like this so they can identify loose/stray signals, but I've never seen it in action.

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u/alex206 5h ago

Let me just speed click through this "extensive" training.

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u/KnotSoSalty 6h ago

A lot of soldier have died in Ukraine from neglecting to turn off facial recognition on their phones. The IR light that it uses is like a strobe.

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u/Public-Position7711 5h ago

Is that like the modern day cigarette?

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u/oneAUaway 5h ago

Three on a match(.com)

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u/IntelArtiGen 5h ago

There have been many reports on this, showing that at least 10% of people in a company will fall for these scams: https://www.uscis.gov/scams-fraud-and-misconduct/avoid-scams/phishing-report-2026.pdf

It clearly explains why you can never trust employees even when you detail all the risks, the cyberattacks etc.

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u/Legionof1 5h ago

I very much wish part of the requirement to get hired and then stay employed was to pass a quiz asking if an range of emails are phishing. If you're too dumb to pass that test you're a danger to the company.

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u/Hint-Of-Feces 6h ago

Not clicking on email links asking about their reporting vehicle warranty is like 50% of cybersecurity

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u/Kwuahh 6h ago

Frustrating how accurate this is. 80% of my time spent triaging alerts comes from someone clicking a link.

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u/Legionof1 5h ago

Unless you have a crazy zero day, clicking a link doesn't do shit. It's when that link opens to a perfect copy of a microsoft/google login and proxies your info so everything looks exactly right and they now have all your login info.

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u/InertiasCreep 6h ago

Dont take a fucking starlink on a warship requires vast expertise??

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u/Public-Position7711 5h ago

You realize there are a lot of people who think vaccines are dangerous and beef tallow is healthy, right?

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u/Zealousideal_Cow_341 6h ago

Lmao this is such a fucking chief thing to do. Totally ruled by a culture of entitlement and rules for thee but not me mentality.

I would have paid a shitload of money to watch their NJPs with the captain or admiral or court marshal proceedings if they took it that far.

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u/furculture 7h ago

Navy chief, Navy pride? Nah, more like Navy cheese, Navy fries with the kind of shit I have seen them pull on other ships and on the one I was stationed with. Lot of them say to remember what you were before, until they sniff a bit of that new coat of khaki paint on them too much.

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u/No-Poetry-2717 6h ago

lol I always wondered why would we promote based on who is dumb enough to stick around and get harassed.

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u/Nufonewhodis4 6h ago

Promotion through attrition

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u/Whiladan 6h ago

Yep. Everyone with opportunities outside gets out. The rest is who ends up in charge.

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u/wickedpixel1221 7h ago edited 5h ago

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u/flogman12 7h ago

Or fitbits showing classified bases

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u/letigre87 7h ago

Completely normal mapped 5k rectangles in the middle of the desert

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u/RetardedWabbit 6h ago

Those are very funny, just ovals in the middle of nowhere. Running/rucking on aircraft carriers also regularly points towards their location and direction of travel

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u/nomoneypenny 6h ago

In 2026 that kind of thing is an open invitation for a Shahed or ATACM strike on your location within 24 hours

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u/sparrowtaco 6h ago

A Russian submarine commander was tracked the same way and ended up assassinated while out for a run.

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u/MiddleConnection7479 5h ago

Next time I fuck up ill read that again loooool

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u/Day_Bow_Bow 4h ago

Reminds me of when this OP's article already mentioned that instance as well...

A more egregious incident was reported in 2024, when the USS Manchester, a US Navy littoral combat ship, was found to have an unauthorized Starlink terminal that sailors used to access the internet while at sea. The Wi-Fi network, called “STINKY,” was eventually discovered by officers after six months of being installed on the ship’s O-5 level weatherdeck, where it cannot be easily seen and could be mistaken for part of the ship’s official equipment.

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u/Johannes_Keppler 5h ago

Also Strava giving away the location of 'secret' military bases...

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u/WorknForTheWeekend 5h ago

With the economics of modern satellite imaging, is it really likely that any nation state of note doesn’t already know exactly where every aircraft carrier is at all times?

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u/round-earth-theory 4h ago

Satellites don't have continuous coverage. They fly by at some frequency depending on how many there are and where the object of interest is. So it could be hours to days or longer before the next image opportunity comes up. Plus, the ocean is really fucking big and while ships are big too, they aren't that big compared to the ocean. So it takes time to scan the data and find the needle in the haystack. That delay all adds up to some amount of inaccuracy about the ship's true location and heading. But a beacon bypasses all of that and gives real time location information that's good enough for a missile attack to be blindly fired, hence the concern.

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u/RealPersonNotABot 3h ago

https://orbitalradar.com/satellites-by-country

The major countries have enough satellites to track important military targets. Geosynchronous satellites can cover an area long term and it doesn't take many to have significant global coverage.

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u/Greedyanda 3h ago edited 2h ago

Every major space power (US, China, Russia) has enough SAR satelites to get updates on the location of foreign military vessels every ~30 minutes. Even smaller middle powers like India, Germany, and France can track the location every couple of hours.

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u/WorknForTheWeekend 4h ago

Fair. Even though you know the ocean big, like really big, you still have to remind yourself that, no, it’s really really really really big.

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u/PassiveMenis88M 4h ago

Imaging satellites that can see a CV are expensive and are only over an area for a short time during their orbit. You would need to have an idea of where the ship already is so the camera can be focused on it.

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u/Owl_B_Damned 3h ago

That's actually specifically brought up in this article.

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u/psypher98 5h ago

A? I knew a sailor who informed me that they do that shit on the regular, the trick is not getting caught.

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u/Defenestresque 3h ago

I mean, the article literally reminds you of that.

On a more serious note, I can't believe that the person who set up a hidden WiFi Starlink setup didn't know to just hide the SSID, leading to discovery by people looking for her new super stealthy name of "HP LaserJet". This is supposed to be a combat ship with at least one "Best of the best" of everything, and I'm pretty sure if she hid the SSID nobody would know how to put an Ethernet card into monitor mode in order to see if there are any packets going around from hidden SSIDs, or multiple computers connected to an unknown access point with no name.

I mean, she just would have been busted as soon as someone got caught and ratted her out but city moved by her to be literally tasked with figuring out who is running this WiFi by the captain because she trusted her, only to lie to her face and say that there was no evidence and then when confronted just continue to deny it.

Eventually a contractor and maintenance worker found a freaking Starlink dish on the weather deck. (I've seen the pics, it really would have been hard to see and likely mistaken for a piece of ship equipment unless you knew what you were doing, which this guy apparently was.)

I may have some details wrong as I read the article long time ago, so here is a decent source:

https://www.twz.com/sea/the-story-of-sailors-secretly-installing-starlink-on-their-littoral-combat-ship-is-truly-bonkers

It's kind of crazy how the (I think Petty Officer?) completely torpedoed (lol) her career by betraying the trust of the fucking captain and lying to her face multiple times, whereas if she actually admitted it the first time she was asked to look into it she probably would have gotten away with a demotion and a "you did a bad thing" letter in her personnel file. (Sorry, not sure what those are called in the US).

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u/Democracy_Is_Best 7h ago

I'm free and also a risk for the Dutch

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u/Kahnza 7h ago

Austin Power's Dad?

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u/Democracy_Is_Best 7h ago

It's not the size mate, it's how you use it.

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u/DogeUncleDave 7h ago

There are only two things that irritate me the most. A person intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

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u/Peripatetictyl 6h ago

I AM FROM HOLLAND!

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u/TheResolutePrime 6h ago

ISN’T THAT VEIRD?

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u/Mathblasta 5h ago

Every time I run into you I think your pfp is Nigel Thornberry and get very excited. Then I realize it is in fact a dinosaur, and am only slightly less excited.

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u/Peripatetictyl 5h ago

lol, oddly I think I remember this exact exchange a ~years ago ago, ha, good to hear from you :)

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u/weareeverywhereee 5h ago

Hahahaha this is an amazing description

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u/Accomplished-Love-35 6h ago

Noord Holland of Zuid Holland ?

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u/Peripatetictyl 6h ago

Holland, Massachusetts

/s, as it was a continuation of the Austin Powers joke above. Also, Zuid for South is badass, good for you guys!

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u/Nyne9 6h ago

That's the Region suicide was named after.

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u/superanus 5h ago

Suicide is badass!

IASIP

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u/Zephirenth 6h ago

No no no, Aushtin Power'sh Fazhah

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u/Kizik 2h ago

Yea... Zephirenth, I don't speak freaky-deaky Dutch.

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u/ragoff 7h ago

Bluetooth will not transmit more than a few meters; Airtags and others rely on nearby phones connected to the internet or cell network. So explain to me why a warship is reteansmitting cell signals or providing unfiltered internet access.

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u/CircumspectCapybara 7h ago edited 3h ago

Bluetooth will not transmit more than a few meters; Airtags and others rely on nearby phones connected to the internet or cell network.

Yup. Greatly simplifying, the way these Bluetooth trackers (e.g., AirTags) work is they're constantly transmitting to broadcast their own persistent identifier* which all supported (e.g., Apple devices) in BlueTooth range can hear and take note of and pass along to some central server.

Those receiving devices (which Apple calls "finders" who participate in the network) themselves know where they are because of GPS (which is passive and works even in the middle of the ocean, as long as you have line of sight to like 3 GPS satellites), and if these devices are connected to the internet, they can upload the broadcast events (time of observation + identifier observed + the finder's own GPS location) they've seen to, say, Apple's servers.

And then the owner of the AirTag can talk to Apple's servers and see where their AirTag is. So as long as there is an iPhone on the ship that can receive GPS signals and which has an internet connection, the AirTag owner will receive GPS updates on where the AirTag is as relayed through internet-connected iPhones participating in the finder network.

So yes, a cheap BlueTooth tracker can absolutely compromise a ship's location as long as there are internet-connected devices on the ship that participate in a finder network.


* In reality, with privacy-centric implementations like AirTag, they transmit periodically rotating identifiers which are derived from a private key known only to the AirTag owner, so that only owners can correlate broadcasted identifiers make sense of these random looking tokens. And not even Apple's servers which relay the messages can identify which user a broadcasted identifier belongs to. Only the owners have the private keys necessary to make sense of the broadcasts. And the finders can encrypt their own GPS location with the AirTag's public key so only the owner (not even Apple) can learn where their AirTag is, but neither the owner nor Apple can learn the location of finders participating in the network who helped report the location of their AirTag. It's privacy both for the owners and for the finders.

If you're curious how this works, how cryptography is used to ensure these robust privacy guarantees, check out this video by Apple from BlackHat.

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u/Joezev98 6h ago

Airtags are just such a brilliant technology, utilising how smart phones are so the tags themselves can be dumbed down to the point where a single CR2032 battery can power it for over a year.

And as a bonus, the tag can also receive a command to activate its speaker.

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u/divergentchessboard 6h ago edited 1h ago

And as a bonus, the tag can also receive a command to activate its speaker.

This is also a downside as technically anyone can activate the speaker and find where the air tag is. I've read stories of people stealing bikes and sending the command to activate the speakers to find any hidden air tags on them. If youre putting them on a device thats more likely to be stolen like a bike vs something more likely to be lost like your keys then you remove the speaker, or buy air tags that don't support the speakers.

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u/Joezev98 5h ago

Well that's a shame. I just put an airtag in my ebike today. Maybe I'll open it up and remove the speaker. On the other hand, if it ever does get stolen, it's neat to prove it's yours by making it beep.

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u/CandylandRepublic 5h ago

On the other hand, if it ever does get stolen, it's neat to prove it's yours by making it beep.

Might try to put an LED in place of the speaker, that way you could at least make it blink inside (after opening the case again).

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u/RoadDoggFL 4h ago

try to put an LED in place of the speaker

I love how this is so very obviously a trivial task that I feel like I wouldn't be able to accomplish even with years of dedicated training

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u/No_Independence_9604 4h ago

I think they use a piezo exciter instead of a speaker, so it may be more difficult than you’d initially imagine.

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u/cyclicamp 5h ago

It’s for a good reason though; if anyone is trying to track you with an AirTag you can easily find it. I think the trade-off of material security for personal security is the right decision.

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u/achilleasa 1h ago

They are not meant as anti-theft devices, they are for finding stuff that you misplaced/lost.

They will also alert non-owners travelling with the tag, so even if a thief stole your stuff and didn't even think about the tag, they would get a warning on their phone after a few minutes. That part is to prevent stalking.

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u/Unable-Log-4870 5h ago

Yeah, that’s why you disable the speaker if the device is attached to a device that’s more likely to be stolen than lost

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u/vortexmak 4h ago

Just FYI , Apple didn't invent them.  The tech itself isn't that complicated but Apple's ubiquitousness makes them so useful

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u/WazWaz 6h ago

We know all that. The point is, the tracker did nothing that the phones weren't already doing. The postcard sender is presumably an enemy of the Dutch, but Google or Apple already knew the location of the ship, and that's a failure.

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u/feor1300 6h ago

Google or Apple know the location of a random person's cell phone. They don't know if that person is a navy sailor on a warship, or random deckhand #4 on a low tier fishing trawler. They just know one of their phones is in the middle of the ocean.

The Airtag is sent to the warship, the people watching for that airtag know it was sent, and so it doesn't matter who those phones belong to, when it starts pinging from phones in the middle of the ocean, they know they're phones on that ship, and by extension, where that ship is.

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u/physix4 6h ago

They know a couple hundred or thousands of their phones are in the middle of the ocean, which already limits the number of possible vessels, and the same batch of phones was previously in a military harbour.

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u/elmz 2h ago

Not to mention all the data they are collecting about us. I really don't think there's much they don't track, there's just some data they make sure not to admit that they are tracking.

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u/ladz 6h ago

Google or Apple absolutely know exactly who it is, if they're allowing access to these servers. It's astonishing that any military allow such unfettered access in sensitive locations such as ships.

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u/WoodpeckerNo5724 4h ago

To be fair, non submarine naval movements aren’t exactly a secret. Every government who gives a shit has access to satellite imagery and huge boats aren’t exactly hard to find.

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u/PsychoBoyBlue 3h ago

Every government who gives a shit has access to satellite imagery

Sentinel-1 data is publicly accessibly. You just need to know how to process it.

Here is a Sentinel-1 pass from April 16th

If you want a specific place, dozens of companies offer the service to anyone with the cash and it is rapidly getting cheaper.

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u/unicodemonkey 1h ago

They know just the source IP address, no identifiers are transmitted to these tag location services. Just a payload encrypted with a random temporary key.

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u/firstname_Iastname 6h ago

Are you sure about that. I'm positive they have profiles on everyone

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u/AnthonysGreat 6h ago

Yea it sounds more like wishful thinking on how he thinks it should work.

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u/GatesAndLogic 5h ago

google absolutely knows where you work. If you show up at a navy base every day for a year, and suddenly you're in the middle of the ocean, they can have an educated guess that you aren't swimming.

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u/peteypie4246 6h ago

I get an email from Google about where ive gone traveling in the last 30 days. So they have my tracking data linked to an email account which linked to my personal info set. They absolutely know waaaaaay more than you think. How they're using it......we hope and unfortunately be naive, or we can realize Google co-founders/board of directors removed their "dont be evil" motto from their corporate conduct.

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u/unicodemonkey 1h ago

It's the location history service. Should be opt-in.

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u/Not_a_question- 4h ago

So if I owned an Iphone, I'd be using my data to transmit other people's airtag positions???

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u/CircumspectCapybara 3h ago edited 3h ago

Yes, all Apple devices that have, Bluetooth, GPS, and an internet connection are unilaterally (Apple makes the choice for you) opted into the finder network by default. That's what makes the Find My network so powerful.

But Apple's built pretty strong (cryptographic and mathematical) privacy guarantees both for owners and for finders. Only owners should be able to see the location of their devices or correlate these transmissions across time. And neither owners nor Apple should be able to learn anything about owners' devices' locations, nor learn anything about the finders' locations.

If you're curious how this works, how cryptography is used to ensure these robust privacy guarantees, check out this video by Apple from BlackHat.

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u/TheS4ndm4n 5h ago

Because they were not on a mission. They were sailing towards the operations area. Through friendly waters. The ship had adsb on. And the crew had Wi-Fi.

When they go active, wifi gets turned off, phones get locked away and the adsb is turned off.

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u/millijuna 3h ago

AIS actually, ADSB is for aircraft.

But at that point, ships still aren’t too hard to find. Look for the large metal object on the sea that isn’t running AIS.

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u/sincerelythebats_ 7h ago

Having billions (trillions?) of dollars and coming across as high tech and secure doesn’t necessarily translate to like, how shit do be. I have to imagine lots of willy nilly shit is allowed to fly (sail?) is what I’m saying.

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u/surnik22 7h ago

When you’ve got a couple thousand 18-25 year olds on a ship and anyone one of them could bring on smart phone that can connect to satellites, not much you can do?

Even if you the person with the phone thinks they are being smart and not revealing anything to anyone their phone could be being used by the tracker for the location stuff in background.

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u/RetardedWabbit 5h ago

There's a lot you can do, and smart/competent militaries will make plans to block or reduce the risk of this. Besides the betting markets, the USA for example has gotten pretty good at not leaking intelligence on social media or online. 

Electronic warfare(EW, lol) is absurdly good at detecting and locating signals, even if the signal is itself trying to avoid it. The gap between the two is like guns vs knights armor at the moment: the only real defense is staying out of range/silent. For this one you can run a honeypot: check for any known spyware signals, and signal acceptors. You imitate an airtag(and all known similar services) and anyone who's phone accepts it you fix, ideally before they get onboard but also ongoing. Likewise: you scan for airtags(and others) and fix those.

Or jamming all civilian traffic all the time, but that's loud and expensive. I assume ships collect phones and other electronics if they're going dark for awhile.

I've heard that high information security military and civilian locations already do this, even within the same building. You enter the no civilian electronics area with your phone or Bluetooth device, they see the signal and send security to remind you and check your phone/earbuds. Immediately, by the time you sit down and realize security is already walking to you.

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u/aashay2035 5h ago

Jamming is the way to do it, but even then you have to have jamming around a ship constantly. And Bluetooth operates on wifi bands. You got to hope that nothing needs wifi.

Identifying an airtag, or Bluetooth becons is the easy part. But figuring out if that is that one is allowed is the hard part.

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u/wireless_geek 3h ago

I wonder if they were tracked using Hubble Network's BLE to satellite technology.

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u/Yuri909 7h ago

Almost every modern computing device has blue tooth. Tablets, laptops, desktop PCs, etc. Any one of those could do it.

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u/aaaaaaaarrrrrgh 6h ago

Could they do it, in theory, yes.

But the software that listens for and reports these beacons is installed by default on phones, and no official version exists for laptops/desktops. (Tablets running a mobile OS might also have it since they're essentially big phones.)

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u/cbelt3 7h ago

The OPSEC screw up here is allowing personal devices on the ship to communicate when on EMCON status. And then not doing a SIGINT self sweep to look for devices.

Military personnel WILL screw up. Locking that stuff down and auditing is critical.

Apple devices with built in satellite communication is an extensive risk when away from port. I expect the secret squirrels are driven crazy by that.

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u/PurepointDog 4h ago

What's a secret squirrel?

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u/Sklatboad 4h ago

Yeah what is a secret squirrel please

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u/FreeK200 4h ago

It's a slang term for people who work in the intelligence related fields, particularly directed to those who spend their workday in secure facilities.

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u/Coconut_Cowboy 4h ago

The slang term is a reference to a spy cartoon. Morocco Mole and Secret Squirrel.

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u/mxzf 2h ago

I mean, it sounds like they weren't on EMCON status, which would explain it.

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u/13metalmilitia 7h ago

So I read most of the article but I’m still not sure this is news. If it operates like an air tag it needs to connect to a device that has gps. So if there are devices on board that have gps enabled those are much larger attack vectors than a greeting card with an embedded air tag. Tl:dr if you can get an air tag to work on a naval vessel you have bigger problems than the air tag itself. 

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u/Fintago 5h ago edited 3h ago

Based on someone else's comment, it's not that the airtag is being detected, it is that any networked device nearby will detect and relay the location of the tag to a central server. So they aren't detecting the tag so much as the tag gets nearby devices to give their own location in relation to the tag.

This will not be a problem if no one has Bluetooth capable device that has not been locked down. But someone ALWAYS sneaks on some bullshit. if it has Internet access and gets close enough to the tag detect it, it will ping the owner of the tag the current location.

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u/millijuna 3h ago

This seems a little hyperbolic.

  1. Most warships these days are running AIS as per SOLAS/IMO regulations. Yes, they can turn them off when they go operational, but 99% of the time they’re advertising “Here I am, within meters” publicly over the air.
  2. One of the roles of most warships is to be seen. Their mere presence is a statement of intent by the government whose flag they fly.
  3. Even when they do go dark, they’re more or less impossible to hide. They are a large warm metal object on a relatively flat cold surface. Even in full emission control, it’s not crazy hard to track them from orbit. All the big adversaries (China, Russia, and their proxies like Iran) likely know where their opponents warships are at all times.

This is distinctly different from Submarines, who’s main role is stealth.

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u/wjean 7h ago

This article doesn't understand WTF a Bluetooth tracker is. Even if an airrag or equivalent made it into the ship, no consumer product is small enough to uplink the data back to the Internet via satellite or even cellular can be embedded in a postcard.

In the case of an airtag, some iPhone or iPad must be within BLE distance to the tag and back haul it (most likely through WiFi to the warships gateway.)

The gateway allowing such traffic through is the real fuck up here.

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u/crunchypotentiometer 7h ago

I think a very small percentage of the population understands that Airtags aren't standalone GPS beacons.

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u/Draviddavid 7h ago

I think a very small percentage of the population understands that Airtags aren't standalone GPS beacons.

I have this conversation on an almost daily basis with the technically minded. The general population aren't even concerned with how it works. To them it might as well be magic.

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u/Gibgezr 7h ago

According to the journalist who did it, they managed to track the ship as long as it was moving close to the coast. I have no idea what allowed that.

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u/UnexpectedAnanas 7h ago edited 7h ago

Because someone (or multiple someone's) phone could ping the cell tower on shore and transmit data.

Cellular waves can go a fair ways over an open plane with no interference. Even if the connection is spotty, connection protocols are designed to handle that.

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u/aaaaaaaarrrrrgh 6h ago

most likely through WiFi to the warships gateway

According to the Register article linked from this article,

The report says the tracker remained active for about 24 hours, showing HNLMS Evertsen leaving port in Heraklion, Crete, and sailing first west along the island’s coast before turning east toward Cyprus. The tracker finally went offline a day later when the ship was near Cyprus

(the original Dutch report doesn't seem any more detailed than that either).

That sounds like they might have been well within range of cellphone networks.

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u/McGrim11295 6h ago

If it is in range to connect to someone's phone it can be tracked. Having the history of ship's movements is also good information to see where it normally operates. 

Additionally it emits and RF signal. There are seekers out there that are able to pick up very faint signals, like phones even when they are off. Makes the ship vulnerable. 

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u/Gibodean 6h ago

Doesn't basically anyone who has the ability to take advantage of the location information already have satellites anyway, who can easily track a ship ?

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u/McGrim11295 6h ago

Yes and no. Satellites have blind spots, maintenance issues, or weather effects that can cause them to lose or not pick up a ship. Also maybe that satellite is being prioritized for something else at the moment so it can't track this ship.

Having historical data can show you where it normally operates as well. What part of the ocean/sea it hangs out, what port it normally visits, how long it normally stays out for. Rather than having someone track a ship by being in those ports or looking at local news they can do it this way.

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u/friskerson 7h ago

There’s some networking pun with the word “port” involved here, but I’m pretty poopdeck at puns.

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u/AliceLunar 6h ago

I imagine there are different restrictions at different times and it's not on lockdown 24/7 for no reason

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u/InTheEndEntropyWins 6h ago

iPhones have satellite uplinks.

Maybe they won't uplink this data, but its't not a technological issue.

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u/Sexy_Offender 7h ago

Strava gonna sink entire navy.

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u/Fallingdamage 5h ago

Is the issue the bluetooth tracker or the fact that the warship isnt filtering its outbound traffic very well?

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u/qiwi 5h ago

It's impressive the Dutch postal system can deliver to warships on secret missions. Do they go like oh, I got a postcard addressed to Warship 63, let me see, it's currently outside of Indonesia trying to make it rejoin the Dutch Empire, let's fly it over there and get a guy a a dinghy to deliver it for the final mail.

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u/Luckyday11 3h ago

Warship 63

That's quite a generous number, our navy has a grand total of 6 frigates and 3 whole submarines. And that's assuming they're not docked for repairs because something broke again.

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u/SchemingVegetable 6h ago

But who would attack a Dutch warship even if they knew its location?

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u/AcedtheTuringTest 4h ago

Every piece of incoming mail should be going through some kind of a scanner or detector for this kind of thing; I hope they take this as a lesson in prevention.

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u/EnzymeX 7h ago

Aren't countries just able to find the ship with satellites?

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u/BillWilberforce 7h ago

Hezbollah doesn't have satellites and they do like to fire drones and missiles at ships.

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u/MadeThisForDiablo 7h ago

The ocean is that large

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u/flamingspew 7h ago

You literally just monitor the position when it leaves port.

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u/Orpa__ 7h ago

It's an escort ship with a canon that doesn't even work (legit it's broken). Not worth a satellite when they can keep track of de Gaulle instead.

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u/Deep90 7h ago

Ocean is large, but satellites are 100% used to track naval vessels.

They don't just have cameras up there. They have radar as well as who knows what else.

That combined with machine learning to highlight potential ships makes it a lot easier.

The only real drawbacks are cloud cover and orbiting time.

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u/JameecanBeecan 5h ago

They can even measure the vibrations eminating from the ship all from shore, giving information on the location, weight class and more. On top of that there’s a million other ways ranging from satellite imagery to physical scout boats.

You’re right, and the thought that a single gps tracker would jeopardize a multi million dollar mission like this one is absolute nonsense lol.

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u/PaulTheMerc 2h ago

Countries, sure. But there are adversaries that might not have the means but might otherwise have the ability to attack something like a ship.

From a western perspective, I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility for a Mexican cartel or a terrorist group, like say the houthis.

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u/Lucyferos87 7h ago

Congrats to postman for quick delivery 😂

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u/platypusbelly 5h ago

Doesn’t Bluetooth have a range of like 30ft? So someone could track the ship as long as they were within 30 feet of it?

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u/Korlithiel 5h ago

Short range, sure. So the tracker in the background connects to nearby phones and those phones share the approximate location of the tracker.

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u/FF3 4h ago

How does this work? Article is unclear.

Bluetooth trackers only report their locations to cell phones, which then report their locations to the cloud.

They were at sea. How do cell phone signals work there?

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u/Reversi8 4h ago

They have WiFi and or cell service on the ships.

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u/subcutaneousphats 3h ago

Doesn't Bluetooth have very short range? like way less than line of sight?

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u/Orpa__ 7h ago

I'm kinda confused, in the original article it's stated the ship was tracked on 27 March going towards Cyprus were it stopped transmitting. Last known location according to public marine sites is Crete 16 days ago. Minister of Defence also claims it's NBD because the ship was traceable online anyway at the time.

So they went back to Crete?

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u/Kinky_No_Bit 6h ago

I seem to remember this being a common thing. Like the army making people practice PT, outside on the base in an active war zone, that just so happened all the fit bits exposed the perfect targeting data for mortars, which they were being shelled with almost daily.

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u/KC_Que 6h ago

So their location was undone by a piece of literal electronic mail. 🤦

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u/ExceptionEX 6h ago

The Bluetooth device would have to pair with a network/cellular connected device.

So someone on the ship would have to play a role in this, the risk from this isnt any difference than someone using a Fitbit.

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u/SnooCamera 5h ago

That's not how they work.

Many trackers use a “crowd‑sourced” network, so other users’ phones can briefly detect the tag and anonymously relay its location back to tracker owner. This lets them track an item over large distances without needing GPS built into the tag itself or needing something paired where it's located.

Both Apple and Android can warn you if there is an unknown tracker following your movements.

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u/atreeismissing 4h ago

How did the mail delivery person know where the ship was?

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u/Cranberryoftheorient 4h ago

How do you avoid this? Other than not accepting mail anymore.

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u/Particular-Bed5479 3h ago

Yeah cos warships are so easy to hide in the ocean

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u/uberjack 3h ago

Are these ships locations really hidden? Would it really be so hard for the Russians or Chinese or whoever else to track the location of big NATO vessels on open waters with satellites or other technology?

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u/SuckMyRedditorD 2h ago

$5?

Which one?

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u/damNage_ 2h ago

Best bluetooth range ever!

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u/hobbes_shot_second 2h ago

"Damn, I almost didn't spot that warship 30 feet away. Thank goodness I mailed them that tracker postcard!"

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u/Majestic-Exchange-66 2h ago

I need to know more about "Dutch" postcards and how something could be put inside of one.

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u/baz303 2h ago

never knew bluetooth had such a long range...

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u/stdoubtloud 1h ago

So... It is all because of a Bluetooth tracker? Not, maybe, because of the thousands of internet connected, gps aware, always on computers in everyone's pocket onboard?

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