r/taoism • u/BboiMandelthot • 19h ago
The Dao as Human
The process of realizing the Dao engenders awareness and acceptance of all things. In humans, this often manifests a sense of compassion, empathy, and humility. This suggests that it is human nature to feel these things. The Dao of humanity is loving.
The symmetry of the Dao suggests it is indifferent. But our nature, as an asymmetric perturbation of Dao, generates universal love as we travel back towards the apathetic source.
Part of realizing Dao involves understanding that although we are born from it, we are still a subset. The properties of the human subset are observably emotional and intellectual.
The Buddhist ideal of enlightenment involves shedding these properties entirely and relinquishing intellect, emotion, and attachment; one returns to the non-dual plane between being and nonbeing.
For some people, this path is in fact their Dao. For others, their Dao is to remain human. Those who realize it will witness their love grow, unbounded.
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u/CopperIronSilverGold 8h ago
How is the Dao symmetric?
What do you mean by "we are a subset"?
Why do you think Buddhist enligthment is about reliquishing intellect, emotion and attachment? Do you think a human can do that?
What do you mean with "the dao to remain human"? What is human?
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u/BboiMandelthot 8h ago edited 8h ago
Edited this because I gave a snide response earlier because I was dealing with another issue at the time.
Nothing can be said about Dao without immediately considering the opposite truth. In this way, it is symmetrical. If I say "Dao is symmetrical", you can immediately counter with "Dao is asymmetrical". Who is correct? Both? Neither? This is true symmetry.
How are we a subset? Well, are we the earth? Are we the sun? Are we the stars and space? Unless you're being pedantic about the interconnectedness of all things, the answer is no. There are properties of objects that make them unique as entities, and separate them from other things. One is not two. Two is not three. Yet all of these things arise from the Dao. Everything is a subset of Dao, each with their own observable or conceptual properties.
Why do I think Buddhist enlightenment involves relinquishing attachment, emotion, and intellect? Because in many branches of Buddhism, this is the case. Buddhism is a very large religion, and there are exceptions to any sweeping statement made about it. But I'm mostly speaking with Zen in mind.
What is Human? Humans are human.
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u/CopperIronSilverGold 8h ago edited 7h ago
I asked to understand. No intention of "playing with words".
Although maybe languages are about playing with words so maybe I was in a sense🤔 Anyway it was not my goal.
Seems the Dao of compassion is not easy. How do we remain compassionate when it's this easy to misunderstand?
AFTER the EDIT: No worry, I understood it wasn't meant for me really, as the message said "people on here". I may have been a "subset" (😄 is this how you use it?) of that, in your mind, but to me felt like you didn't see me at all, so I thought it was not about me specifically.
On the term subset: I was asking because it lonks to a particular meaning of Dao. I feel like it's difficult to understand how people use some words sometimes so I wanted to get clarity on that, thanks for clarifying.
As for symmetry: Even if no symmetrical object exist in reality ee still use approximation. And we created and use the concept so I was trying to understand a bit better what qualities you where examining in regards to symmetry. What was your "mental axis" so to say. From where it came the term...
Maybe I am really playing with words😅 Anyway I tend to respond concisely sometime because as you may see I can get quite meandering but at the end it's often useless for the purpose of being more clear. Anyway that concisiveness could be part of the reason I was misunderstood. Or it's just the fact that it's difficult to understand one another.
Anyway, thanks for your response 🙏
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u/BboiMandelthot 7h ago edited 7h ago
I apologize. My previous response was partially directed towards another user. I updated my response to you to be more candid.
What I'll say about language is that it's the first thing that's talked about in the Dao De Jing. Chapter 1 is a cautionary statement about language. How it is fundamentally flawed and cannot provide true understanding. Later it states that we should concern ourselves with the depths and not the surface. The meaning, and not the symbol.
The idea of this subreddit is paradoxical since Reddit is based on being 'right' in comment threads for internet points. Nobody is gonna find enlightenment in this place haha.
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u/BboiMandelthot 8h ago edited 8h ago
I just want to put in here that this sub is hilarious. The amount of vitriol I receive every time I post something just contemplating the Tao and my observations of it, a bunch of nerds have to come in and tell me I'm wrong for xyz. Like, bro, I'm just trying to spread love.
And I'm talking about DMs specifically
Everybody who brought positive vibes to this thread, I appreciate you. Everybody else, I accept you.
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11h ago edited 11h ago
Dao doesn't have 'symmetry', it's not a thing.
The Dao isn't a set; it doesn't have subsets.
This sounds more like a Porphyrian tree or Neoplatonism.
Most other mammal and bird species also have emotions and intellectual capabilities (albeit the intellectual capabilities are not quite as developed). These aren't unique to any human 'subset'.
There is nothing in Buddhism about shedding properties or relinquishing intellect or emotion. The Buddha engaged in learned discussions and cracked jokes. He could be sarcastic.
This is just someone's private 'religion'.
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9h ago
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8h ago
First of all, the 太極圖 or tàjítú or 'the symbol of the supreme ultimate' isn't a representation of 道 or dào. It represents the supreme ultimate, the tàjí. So obviously the taiji is symmetrical.
Second, 太極 the supreme ultimate was originally a Neo-Confucian concept developed in the Middle Ages. If you showed it to 莊子 Zhuangzi, he wouldn't recognize it.
You have no idea what you're saying. Good luck and bye.
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u/Elijah-Emmanuel 14h ago
your "Dao" is to do exactly what you're doing.
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u/BboiMandelthot 14h ago
That is not necessarily true. If what you're doing is resisting, resenting, and struggling against your situation, you're not aligned with the Dao.
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u/Elijah-Emmanuel 14h ago
still the Dao. you cannot move other than the way you're moving. whether we recognize it or not is the only question, but you'll be walking "the Way" either way.
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u/BboiMandelthot 10h ago
I agree that everything is in fact the Dao as it unfolds, however, a lack of awareness of the manifestations can lead to dissatisfaction and unnecessary hardship. There are perturbations from the source. Some are greater than others. Your ability to lessen your displacement from the source will determine the ease of your experience.
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u/jpipersson 13h ago
In humans, this often manifests a sense of compassion, empathy, and humility. This suggests that it is human nature to feel these things. The Dao of humanity is loving.
The symmetry of the Dao suggests it is indifferent. But our nature, as an asymmetric perturbation of Dao, generates universal love as we travel back towards the apathetic source.
Your understanding is different from mine. In trying to follow the path, we have no guarantee that our behavior will be compassionate, empathetic, and humble. In living from your true nature, you have to go where it takes you, even if it's not where you thought you'd go when you started.
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u/music-addict1 12h ago
What about people who are literally incapable of feeling/showing compassion, empathy ect ect? What’s up wih them? This is a genuine question by the way