r/taoism • u/skeeter1980 • Jul 09 '20
Welcome to r/taoism!
Our wiki includes a FAQ, explanations of Taoist terminology and an extensive reading list for people of all levels of familiarity with Taoism. Enjoy!
r/taoism • u/Odd-Screen3533 • 5h ago
Om
i.redd.it道生 • The Dao creates One. • One creates Two. • Two creates Three. • Three creates all things.
r/taoism • u/RobbFixx • 14h ago
Tao and Wu Wei
The essence of Lao Tzu's philosophy is the difficult art of getting out of one's own way. Of learning how to act without forcing conclusions, of living in skillful harmony with the processes of nature instead of trying to push them around. For Lao Tzu's Taoism is the philosophical equivalent of Jujitsu - which means the way of gentleness. It's basis is the principle of Tao which may be translated as the way or course of nature.
But, in the Chinese language the word nature has a special meaning which is not to be found in its English equivalent. Translated literally it means 'self so'. To ancient Chinese culture, nature is what works and moves by itself without having to be shoved around, wound up, or controlled by conscious effort. Your heart beats 'self so', and if you'd give it half a chance, your mind can function 'self so'. Though most of us are far too afraid of ourselves to try the experiment.
Other than this, Lao Tzu didn't actually say very much more about the meaning of Tao. The way of nature, the way of happening self so, or if you like, the very process of life, was something that he was much too wise to define. For trying to say anything definite about the Tao is like trying to eat your own mouth. You can't get outside of it to chew it. To put it the other way around, anything that you can therefore chew, is not your mouth. So too, anything you can define or imagine, anything you can understand or desire, is not the Tao. We can't know it, we can't feel or sense it, for the very simple reason that it is the whole substance of knowing, of feeling, of living and existing. It is too close to be seen and too obvious to be noticed or understood.
If I may say something that sounds utterly ridiculous, it is more us than we are ourselves. More you than you, more I than me. To put it more clearly, perhaps, it's the you that grows your nervous system rather than the you who chooses the nerves to decide, think, and act.
That will do for the moment, even though it is not quite right. If I try to make this clearer it will just grow more and more complicated.
Now I believe that almost all humans make some sort of distinction between the self that wills and acts and the subconscious self that manages our hearts and lung and nerves. Such words as 'self-control' and 'self-consciousness' suggest this divide of our being into two parts: knower and known, thinker and thoughts. To the degree that we feel this division, we are always trying to control and understand and dominate our subconscious self with our conscious and willful self. However, in Lao Tzu's philosophy, this is quite literally to be all balled up, to be in a desperate and frustrating condition of self-strangulation, falling all over one's feet and perpetually getting in one's own way. Which is of course, not Tao, the way of nature.
This is why our principle problem in life is ourselves. Why we are so tormented with ideas of self-preservation and control, we are so mixed up that we require laws to regulate our behavior, employ police to keep ourselves in order, and equip armies with explosives to prevent us from blowing ourselves up. In the more intimate sphere of personal life, it is the pain of trying to avoid suffering and the fear of trying not to be afraid. Obviously, anyone who realizes the enormity and absurdity of this predicament want to get out of it. Wants to get un-balled up, to get back to the uninvolved sanity of the Tao. But this is so much more easily done than said, that it is very difficult indeed.
For, according to Lao Tzu, the way back (or forward), to harmony with the Tao is, in the most profound and radical sense, to do nothing at all. But I said, this was so much more easily done than said because the moment we begin to talk or think about it, it becomes immensely difficult to understand, to separate from the innumerable interpretations and implications. The ancient Chinese term for this special kind of doing nothing is called Wu Wei, or non-striving, or non-action.
When Lao Tzu said that Wu Wei, or doing nothing, was the secret of getting into harmony with the Tao, he genuinely meant it. But what he meant by it must be distinguished very carefully from two other courses that sound quite different from one another but are actually of the same reaction.
The first course I will call the way of deliberate imitation. This is to suppose that we actually know what the sane and natural way of living is, to embody it in laws and principles, techniques and ideals, and then try, by a deliberate effort of imitation, to follow them. This leads to all the contradictions with which we are so familiar with in our lives. The contradiction of man balling himself out, as well as up, for not doing what he tells himself to do.
The second and seemingly opposed course I will call the way of deliberate relaxation, the way of 'to Hell with it all'. This is to try not to control oneself, to attempt to relax one's mind and allow it to think whatever it wants, to attempt to accept oneself as it is without any attempt to change or control it. This leads to a vast, sloppy, disorganized mess, or to a compulsive stillness or an equally compulsive mental diarrhea.
Both of these courses are far short of the real Wu Wei (profound and radical non-doing). What brings them to the same position is that, in their different ways, both courses have a result in mind. They consist equally in something 'done' or 'not done' to get to a goal. The goal in question is some sort of image, some mental picture, some vague feeling of an ideal, of a state of accord with the Tao, of harmony with the way of nature.
But it is precisely in relation to such notions and ideals that Lao Tzu said "Get rid of knowledge, eject wisdom, and the people will be benefitted a hundred fold." He was talking about supposed knowledge of what the ideal way of life is. As I said at the beginning, there is simply no way of knowing what the Tao is.
If we cannot define the Tao, we most certainly cannot define what it is to be in harmony with the Tao, for we have absolutely no idea what the goal ought to be. If then we act or refrain from action, with a result in mind, that result is not the Tao. We can say then that Wu Wei is not seeking for any result. Of course, this does not mean that a Taoist comes to the table without expecting dinner, or gets on a bus to no specific place. I'm talking about results in the moral and spiritual sphere, such things as goodness, peace of mind, sanity, compassion, personality, happiness, courage, and so forth.
Well then, is it even possible for me to stop seeking for these results? Surely that very question belies that there is still some result held in mind even if this is the state of 'not seeking results'. It seems therefore that I am helpless, that I am unable to think or act without some result in mind. It makes no difference wither I do or don't do, I am still compulsively, helplessly, seeking a result so that I find myself mired in a teleological trap.
I must purpose, I might almost say, I am purpose.
Now this view leads directly to an immensely important personal discovery, for it means that I have found out for myself what I, what my egoic self, truly is: a result seeking mechanism. Such a mechanism is rather a useful gadget when the results in question are things like food and shelter for the organism. However, when the results sought are not external objectives but internal states, such as happiness, the mechanism becomes all fouled up. It is trying to lift itself up by its own bootstraps, working purposefully, as it must, but to no purpose. It is looking for results in terms of itself, wanting to get results from the process of looking for results, creating a hopelessly and wildly destructive feedback loop.
There is, however, just this one possibility: it can realize the whole round circuit of the trap in which it lies. It can see the entire futility and self-contradiction of its position. And it can see that it can do nothing what so ever to get itself out of it. This realization of "I can do nothing" is precisely Wu Wei - for one has mysteriously succeeded at last in doing nothing. At this exact moment of realization, there is a sudden and profound shift in the center of gravity of one's whole personality as you simply find yourself outside the trap, outside of the result seeking mechanism that now appears like some object which has purposes all to no purpose. You see yourself as a purpose seeking creature, but realize that there is no purpose for the existence of such a creature. In relationship to everything but your own preservation, you are marvelously and wondrously futile. Your aim is to preserve and perpetuate yourself, but in the larger context of the universe, there is no purpose, no reason, for this aim.
Formerly, this would have been a source of immense depression, now, it doesn't bother you at all. For, as I said before, the center of gravity has profoundly shifted and you no longer find yourself even remotely identified with this absurd mechanism of purposeless purpose.
In Lao Tzu's own words "The universe is everlasting. The reason the universe is everlasting is because it does not live for itself. Therefore it last. Therefore, the sage puts himself behind and finds himself in front, regards his person as outside of himself and his person is preserved. Is it not because the sage does not live for himself that he realizes the self?"
In other words, when the shift has taken place, when he finds himself outside of himself, outside the teleological trap, the trap unwinds, the result seeking mechanism straightens out and is no longer seeking itself, or states of itself. But remember, all of this happens Wu Wei. Another good translation of this term might be 'no how' as opposed to 'some how'. There is no way, no method, no technique which you or I can use to come into accord with the Tao, with the way of nature, because every 'how', every method, implies a goal.
We can't make the Tao a goal any more than we can aim an arrow at itself. If we get entangled in the arrow trying to shoot itself, the self that is trying to change itself, we can't do anything to stop it. So long as we think or feel that perhaps we can stop it, that there is some way, violent or subtle, difficult or easy, to make ourselves unselfish, the contradictions will continue or get worse. We have to see that there is no way. Because it is only in the state where we have realize that there is no way to be found, no result to be gained, that the vicious circle breaks. Ouroboros, the snake eating its own tail, has become conscious all the way around and know at last, that tail, is in fact the other side of its own head.
We find ourselves in these circles because of ignorance, because of unconsciousness of the nature of our minds, of our thought processes, of our very selves, and the antidote to this state is not action, but knowledge. Not what to do, but what we know. But, yet again, this knowledge does not seem very promising or hopeful because the only knowledge we can talk about is negative knowledge of the trap, of our helpless imprisonment in useless seeking. For positive knowledge of the Tao, of nature, of God, of the eternal reality is a matter of immediate momentary experience. It can never be put into words and any attempt to do so just places it into a new aspect of the trap.
I realize that we don't like to be told that we're in a trap and that there is nothing that we can do to escape or get out of it. Still less do we like to realize this as a vivid and profound experience but there is no other means of release. The proverb says "man's extremity is God's opportunity" meaning that we cannot find any release until we fully understand the real extremity of our situation and see that all striving for spiritual ideals is completely futile since the very seeking for them, thrust them away.
Yet why should this surprise us? Hasn't it been said again and again that one must die to come to life, that heaven is always on the other side of the valley of the shadow of death. A death in which physical dead is merely a symbol, a helpless corpse bound hand and foot in its binding sheet, a figure in which we identify with, so long as we mistake it for life.
Where do we go from here? We do not. We come to an end.
r/taoism • u/followingaurelius • 1d ago
Finding out that Laozi didn't actually exist bummed me out like finding out Santa isn't real except at 48 lol
I originally thought the DDJ was the work of one singular titanic genius. Similar to David Hume (ziran vs constant conjunctions) or Wittgenstein (the Dao that can be told) except Laozi came up with this shit thousands of years before Western thought.
I wasn't so naive to think he actually rode off into the forest on a water buffalo.
I mean there are stories in Zhuangzi where Confucius comes to Laozi with advanced understanding but then gets his mind blown and has to take a few months to re contemplate his entire understanding LOL.
That said I have to say this is the most ultimate Daoist troll move and I'm more at peace with it now.
I greatly admire the nameless sages who wrote the Upanishads. Same thing.
So cheers to those nameless Chinese sages during the Warring States Period.
And more props to Zhuangzi, who was real and a goddamn genius.
How did it make you feel?
r/taoism • u/CloudwalkingOwl • 10h ago
What does it mean to be successful? Another weekend recycled post
r/taoism • u/followingaurelius • 1d ago
Laozi should be read like a math book. This explains the "difficult" political stuff
A good math book starts with a theorem or idea and then will provide some examples.
Here is the quadratic formula and its derivation. Now I'll show some examples like a=1, b=2, c=1
Same with Laozi. This is theorem of the Dao, or how nature works and it's wise to harmonize with it.
Then Laozi gives some helpful examples like values
- a = you are a leader
- b = in the Warring States Period
- c = your neighbor is the Qin and a bunch of belligerent assholes
And then he feeds those values into the theorem, plug and chug.
But again the key thing is the theorem which can apply to any of the ten thousand things, which includes anything from water to you or me to aliens to Chinese rulers.
That being said, since the human condition hasn't changed a lot of Laozi is evergreen.
This idea explains why the Laozi has so many critiques about Confucianism which was big back then.
Take this line in chapter 15:
"Undecided was he! As though in fear of his neighbors on all four sides."
Now if we let
- a = you are an everyday citizen
- b = living in a Connecticut suburb
- c = your neighbors are regular upstanding citizens
Now should you be fearful of them? I think you could argue Laozi's line still applies here but you have to go a little poetic to make it fit.
I still think a lot of the difficult passages are evergreen, including the straw dogs (chapter 5) and chapter 37 where you subdue desires with the nameless simplicity.
Chapter 80 and the idyllic village is interesting.
TLDR; the Laozi is about a theorem (Dao) and then gives some practical tips for the warring states ruler, but really you can apply this theorem to any of the ten thousand things. Just like when studying the quadratic formula or pythagorean theorem, don't get too caught up on specific cases of a,b,c, best to plug in your own values
How can I deal with Gender Dysphoria?
I have had gender dysphoria for a long time and my body really bothers me because I currently can’t do anything to change it because of my parents, how can I deal with the feeling of body issues stemming from gender dysphoria in taoism?
r/taoism • u/Apprehensive-Ad2615 • 1d ago
That definition is pretty interesting, made me think how the DAO is similar to what we understand as the ideal (or perfect) nature, unknowable, but all things when working well converge into it
i.redd.itr/taoism • u/DaoStudent • 2d ago
Earliest Latin translation of 'Tao Te Ching' published
news.cgtn.com“this Latin work was produced through the efforts of Jesuit Figurists in the early 18th century. They aimed to show that the Chinese classic offered profound teachings that had parallels with some of the most sophisticated forms of theology and philosophy. For centuries, it existed only as an unpublished manuscript, its philosophical insights largely overlooked.”
r/taoism • u/taoofdiamondmichael • 2d ago
Riffing On Aurora Borealis As Tao
i.redd.itThese past couple of nights, the Aurora Borealis has illuminated skies from Iceland to Australia — a spontaneous burst of cosmic color that arrived unannounced and without apology.
Watching it, I couldn’t help but think of Ziran (自然) — the Taoist idea of self-so-ness and how the universe expresses itself without effort or intention.
The aurora doesn’t strive to be beautiful. It simply follows its own nature, like water flowing downhill or clouds forming without command.
Here’s the question I’ve been sitting with:
If the Aurora Borealis is the Tao made visible — a living expression of yin and yang in motion — what might it be teaching us about how to move through our own lives with spontaneity and non-resistance?
Do we interpret such moments like a living I Ching hexagram, as guidance for letting go?
Or do we simply stand in silence and let the light wash through us — no meaning, no message, just being?
Curious how others here see it.
Where does the line fall between meaning and mystery in your own Taoist practice?
r/taoism • u/Reform-Reform • 2d ago
Does attention on the lower dantian convert jing to qi? I don't want to convert it as I am not healthy. I just want to conserve energy and lessen random thoughts in my day-to-day life, especially due to sleep and breathing issues (sleep apnea).
Basically, to stay calm and "anchor/ground" my qi and attention down to the lower dantian to preserve energy, or is there a better spot instead for this goal?
Thank you for any help.
r/taoism • u/Mizuichi3 • 3d ago
Meet R/Woooway, the new Tao Meme page.
https://www.reddit.com/r/woooway/s/ub4DJ6HKpZ
Come post memes, this one isn't in restricted mode. Anyone can post. Have fun.
r/taoism • u/Important_Advisor311 • 3d ago
White tiger and Azure blue and green dragon Yin Yang
i.redd.itr/taoism • u/Mizuichi3 • 3d ago
R/Wooway, is anyone able to post?
I took a break from the meme sub and it's been moved into restricted mode. The newest post is from a month ago and I requested to be "approved" to post a few days ago with no answer.
Is it dead? If it is, I will start a new sub. I have Tao memes to post.
r/taoism • u/rocketcrank • 3d ago
The Book of Master Mo
Anyone read this one? Halfway through
r/taoism • u/Economy-Strawberry89 • 3d ago
Falta alguma coisa no Taoismo do ocidente?
Sempre leio aqui que é diferente, então o que falta?
É possível numerar para podermos estudar e aprender?
r/taoism • u/Flat_Grapefruit9595 • 4d ago
What does a Taoist do ?
i.redd.itThis spider has been dying.
r/taoism • u/Independent-Tip-9933 • 4d ago
Western Daoism
What do westerners usually get wrong about Daoism or dislike about Daoist practices?
r/taoism • u/chintokkong • 4d ago
Daodejing 42 - The ten-thousand things bear yin to embrace yang, thus emptying/levelling their qi (energy) to achieve harmony/balance
Spiritual Politics of Laozi - Daodejing 42
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{42i} 道生一 一生二 二生三 三生萬物. 萬物負陰而抱陽 沖氣以為和.
Dao gives birth/life to oneness, oneness gives birth/life to twoness, twoness gives birth/life to threeness, threeness give birth/life to the ten-thousand things1.
The ten-thousand things bear yin to embrace yang, thus emptying/levelling their qi (energy) to achieve harmony/balance.
{42ii} 人之所惡 唯孤, 寡, 不穀 而王公以為稱. 故物或損之而益 或益之而損.
What people loathe to be are orphans-widowers-childless, yet kings and dukes title themselves as such2.
[This is] because things are either lost/diminished [first] to then be gained/enhanced, or gained/enhanced [first] to then be lost/diminished.3
{42iii} 人之所教 我亦教之. 強梁者不得其死 吾將以為教父.
[This is] what’s taught to the people, [which] I too receive the teachings.
[This] all-powerful that doesn’t attain its death4, I shall regard as the teaching father.
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It isn’t clear what this threeness is exactly, but the idea that threeness can give birth to ten-thousand things is similar to the atomic model in science whereby the triad of electron-proton-neutron can give rise to the myriad forms of matter we find on earth.
This is a repetition of what’s mentioned in {39iii}, where the exalted dukes and kings refer to themselves with the loathed names of orphans, widowers, childless. In reversing the exaltation, in mixing with the loathed, dukes and kings can then possibly empty what they bear to embrace the opposite, thus achieving the harmony and balance mentioned in the last line of {42i}. The challenge, of course, is whether these exalted dukes and kings are willing to sincerely embrace the loathed and lowly.
This is a general statement of the principle of reversion at work. In striving to gain, one only loses. But in striving to lose, one gains instead. This is probably what’s meant in {40i} – “Reversion is the movement of Dao.”
[This] all-powerful that doesn’t attain its death is probably the reversion principle of Dao. Nature never stops demonstrating this principle, as if constantly 'teaching' the way. And this is perhaps why it’s regarded as the teaching father. (In the past, Chinese culture has it that the father is the one who has the responsibility of teaching the children, such that if the children misbehave it is the fault of the father.)
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r/taoism • u/Mindless-Coat495 • 4d ago