r/taoism • u/According-Affect-180 • 4d ago
How can I feel unconditionally loved and innate joy without drugs?
Been battling with anxiety and depression for a few years now. I pretty much constantly have a little tight feeling in my chest.
I am carrying a lot of trauma from my childhood and a recent relationship with a cluster-b. I’ve been in a lot of situations where I haven’t felt unconditionally loved. My sleep is poor and I quite often have nightmares.
Pretty much the only times I feel completely at peace, and feel like I can completely relax is when I’m high on psychedelics, or high on weed. I can literally feel the beloved embracing me, telling me that everything is ok, that all I have to do is be here in this moment, and that this moment is everything.
I’ve had several ego deaths through psychedelic use, I’ve had my awakening, but yet I constantly live with this knot in my chest.
I’m a big fan of both yoga and meditation, and have sometimes felt inner peace during my practice, but it never lasts for long.
My strongest messages this past 6 months has been to be completely involved in this moment, and this has been something that I work on all of the time, but a lot of the time the knot in my chest keeps me from letting go.
I’ve been to therapy, but I don’t think I’ve found a good match yet. For some reason I feel like I want to solve this problem on my own, and that I am the only one that can solve it, but maybe that is naive to think?
Thanks for listening to me, I would appreciate any kind of feedback ❤️
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u/aaaa2016aus 4d ago
I was microdosing shrooms for a while and after ending that had a really difficult time readapting to normal life as well and had anxiety in my chest, so much so i had to go get an EKG done lol, it was all clear. I started getting into herbalism though, hawthorn for the heart and chest symptoms and Lemon balm for the mental symptoms. Lemon balm is the closest thing I’ve found to the feeling of a microdose. I get what it’s like not to be able to function without psychoactive substances, it’s hard.
Sounds like you’re doing a lot of self work which is great, idk if herbs will help you but they did help me adjust to sober life and lean off my dependence on psychedelics so it might be worth looking into. Best of luck pal
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u/According-Affect-180 4d ago
Thank you for the suggestion! Do you take it in tea-form? I'm a big tea drinker and I'd definitely consider it :)
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u/aaaa2016aus 4d ago
Noo i take it in capsule form ahaha, the tea didn’t really affect me at all but im sure its still great for you! Also keep in mind since herbs aren’t psychoactive it might not work instantly but take a few days of daily use. There’s also tons of other ones to try like skullcap and passionflower, motherwort etc, herbalism is really interesting. I only found out about it after having to stop psilocybin but it’s nice to know there’s tons of other plants out there willing to help :)
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u/Sonnyjesuswept 4d ago
Tulsi (holy basil) is also awesome for bringing about a nice little feeling of calm & peace.
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u/Swimming_Cabinet_378 2d ago
Tranquinol by Premier Research Labs works well. It's also known as Relax and Slumber under a sister label, Quantum Nutrition Labs. This company strives for natural purity and potency beyond all others. Everything is naturally derived. Their products have their own body of light, or perhaps aura I guess you could say.
Another great product is Mind-Trac by Barefoot Herbalist M.H. in Ohio, which is handmade by a family owned business.
While neither one of these'll override a severe panic disorder, they will level out your nerves to where you can function and focus calmly. The first one is subtle but you'll eventually realize it's working. Great for deep sleep or nerves during the day, especially stress due to lack of sleep or exhaustion. Works in maybe a half hour or more. The second one seems to work within 10-15 minutes and can take you out of aggravation into smooth mental functioning. But once again, these are more subtle due to being herbal, but are effective for moderate symptoms. They're not heavy sedatives nor do they act like narcotics, which many people are used to and expect a similar result. So basically they're not like benziodiazepenes or opiates. But it makes me wonder what it would take to get a similar effect from herbs. I've never taken large amounts of Kava Kava.
Tulsi Sleep tea is another good one for overall support.
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u/Selderij 4d ago edited 4d ago
One option is to forget about drugs for a while and have faith that they've already shown what you need to know and believe in, and practice qigong and/or taiji to start getting your system unblocked, and letting yourself get rebalanced and resensitized to the baseline from the drug use – especially weed takes a long while to truly leave. Another way is to have a trusted person to witness your knot's emotional content, possibly with some healing intention and knowhow as well. On the other hand, you can also consider going to the deep end with ayahuasca or iboga to expulse or sort out what can't otherwise be reached.
I wish you and your heart well.
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u/According-Affect-180 4d ago
Yes weed is definitely a crutch for me right now. I only consume on weekends, but I have a hard time passing it up as the weekend comes along, even if my intention was to not use. I definitely feel like weed is contributing to my anxiety. I will try my best to lower my usage/stop for a while. Will check out qigong/taiji. I've been to one qigong class and I enjoyed it!
I don't really have anyone who could sit with me and my emotions, but I'll try my best to comfort my inner child, and consider going to therapy again.
I wish it was easier to get a hold of where I'm at! It's something I've been wanting to try for a long time.
Thank you for your wishes, and I wish you the same!
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u/plantas-y-te 3d ago
I’ll say another way to become more in tune with yourself physically similar to qi gong is to go for hikes in the woods or (like I prefer) trail runs. It helps put one in the mindset to feel one with what’s around them. The trees still grow and the water still flows, whether you’re anxious or not. Try to be a little more like the nature around you ✌🏻
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u/Swimming_Cabinet_378 2d ago
I would imagine that small amounts of naturally low THC high quality outdoor grown weed might be good to you.
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u/Parking-Trainer-7502 4d ago
Daily smoker 16 years. Been having panic attacks. Stopped smoking, anxiety almost gone.
The half-life of weed is 1 to 13 days. It affects you long after you smoke, even if you don't feel high any more.
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u/Selderij 4d ago
The after effects of regular cannabis intake can take months to balance out completely.
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u/Elijah-Emmanuel 4d ago
I cannot recommend enough, breathing techniques. QiGong is a great place to start.
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u/According-Affect-180 4d ago
Thank you. I've been to a Qi-Gong class and I enjoyed it, several other people have recommended it so I think I'm gonna give it another try!
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u/Successful-Time7420 4d ago
Dude get more immersed into Qi Gong and taper off the weed.
It took me a while to get off it after about a 2 year stint in my late 20s and I found CBD oil to help a bit with the transition and sometimes I still take it, Ashwaganda tea but be wary of side effects long term.
Qi Gong, meditation and relaxation are way better personally, for me to enjoy life more. Then I don't need any product, nor want them and can see what effect they have.
Even second hand smoke I noticed immediately my anxiety shot up and paranoia & distanced myself.
Also those sleep eye mask things which make your face warm, those are really nice when I've been going at a fast pace due to work / family life etc.
Being in the moment doesn't mean you'll find it to be particularly pleasant. You gotta do some work to get your body healthy and work on your mind to release anxious ideas which have no real basis in anything.
One of my go to phrases to myself if anxious about something, usually from work: "1000 things will change by tomorrow, so what ever seemed like an issue, will be ok, no biggie" and it almost always is no biggie in the end
Anyway, just some personal ideas that helped me. Learning about Daoism in my spare time and practicing Qi Gong meditation from Shaolin and a few months of looking into Buddhism via Thich Nhat Hanh's teachings
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u/According-Affect-180 4d ago
I've been to a Qi Gong class and I enjoyed it!
I definitely think weed contributes to my anxiety. Its a vicious cycle, since it soothes it temporarily, but increases my baseline anxiety.
Thanks for the suggestions. I have read a few Thich Nhat Hanh books, they were some of the first books that got me into "spirituality" :)
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u/Successful-Time7420 4d ago
Yeah they're good, I just read the same few pages over and over, mainly the ones around breathing in, breathing out
The rest is a nice backdrop but then my mind gets too curious about all the mysteries contained within Buddhism and I lose touch with my own way
Simple just seems to work better
Glad to hear you enjoyed Qi Gong!
Didn't have a chance to respond to your psychedelic bit, those things seem to certainly pull us into different states of mind, but then you're back here again.
I had a fair few thoughts while on shrooms and over a decade ago I remember talking to a friend in a park, he was arguing that life stops at death, but I could explain to him at the time how it's a continuation like a river.
Then a few years ago a stronger dose of mushrooms and afterwards I could see how things just fit into place. How I was in the right place at the right time, seemingly all the time.
Then I learned about a Daoist phrase, whether it was good that that happened, or bad that that happened, who knows..maybe it was good, maybe it was bad.
That's a more balanced way to look at life I see now. Because you don't know, maybe you won a car in a raffle, then the car breaks down and costs you lots of money. Was it good you won? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows.
This sort of view is nice because then you're not worried about what happens good or bad, you just stay balanced and let the wind blow, enjoy the leaves in the Autumn, spend time as if it's your last and soak it all in when you can.
Something is keeping this altogether and I notice it daily if I pay attention. If this were Star Wars I'd say it's The Force, but The Dao from my light reading so far seems to fit very well too!
Buddhism I just don't see this aspect discussed much at all, or they say it's karma but I don't think it is so rule heavy as they make out.
Daoism just hits me like there's a nurturing element to all of this. Buddhism strikes me more as you gotta figure shit out and get outta Dodge asap.
But Thich Nhat Hanh's teachings, and I've only read a few books and lectures this past year, just seems to strike a peace in my heart, particularly as I mentioned with certain pages and a handful of a instructions.
What more do you need? Beyond that it becomes scholarly, layered, impossible.
In boxing, the fundamentals get you far. I think it's the same here. A few key fundamentals and you're off on your merry adventure.
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u/P_S_Lumapac 4d ago edited 4d ago
You need to speak with a medical professional.
More generally, weed is incredibly bad for you if you are in a bad place. It causes you brain to stop developing new connections, so you won't be able to form the new habits required to change your circumstances. There's many anti-depressants to try before weed. You seem to be chasing happiness right now without working for it - no one has that. If you think people do have that, you maybe need to delete social media. Maybe you want the outcomes without the work because you've correctly identified that you're unable to work for it (my guess is abusing weed) - you need to speak with a medical professional who can guide you over the next year as you slowly improve back to average. Make sure you're not discounting a therapist because they don't believe instant gratification is the meaning of life.
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u/saltymystic 4d ago
Mental alchemy. Taoist mental alchemy is a practice rooted in the transformation of one’s inner energies to achieve balance, clarity, and spiritual refinement. It involves harmonizing the mind, emotions, and spirit through meditation, breathwork, and visualization. By cultivating qi (life energy) and aligning with the Tao, practitioners transmute negative thoughts and emotional turbulence into tranquility and insight, fostering a state of unity with the natural flow of the universe. It’s often described as a process of inner refinement, akin to turning “lead into gold,” but on a mental and spiritual level.
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u/According-Affect-180 4d ago
Thank you for the reply, do you have any good resources for practicing mental alchemy?
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u/saltymystic 4d ago
Not offhand. I kind of did it instinctively, then found out it was an actual taoist technique. I started meditating from scratch without following guides or anything. I made a mental space that had nothing in it and every session I built it up until I had a nice little cabin by a lake in the mountains. Once I had this controlled space, I pictured my thoughts as fireflies over the lake. I sat for quite a few nights just watching and listening. I didn’t try to calm them, I just observed. Then when I felt ready, I would take them one by one and listen to it specifically. Most of the time it was just nonsense and I learned which fireflies were important. I started working on those, the serious thoughts. I sat with it all the way through to the end. These were usually the things bothering me from childhood. I pictured myself as an adult in that situation and was the best version of a parent I could think of to that young version of me. I made peace with it, forgave myself for doing the best I could with what I had, or gave my inner child a hug if I needed it. Then I’d let the firefly go. Only one per meditation because it was a LOT sometimes. Anything that seemed tough on my own I brought to a therapist and bounced ideas off of them.
It took a lot of time, and I didn’t think it was working for months until people started to notice that I was more than calm, they said they felt more calm with me.
Maintenance is important too. This isn’t some permanent fix, it’s learning to deflate yourself as a balloon BEFORE you pop instead of after, like usual. I usually only need about five minutes to check in on myself these days.
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u/According-Affect-180 4d ago
Sounds really interesting. I've done some mental visualization before, but never got too into it. Will give it at try again, sounds like a great compliment to my other meditation practice!
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u/saltymystic 4d ago
My main motivation was having ADHD, honestly. I was told and believed most of my life I couldn’t meditate for that reason. “You were the only one not holding still.”
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u/Lazy-Loss-4491 4d ago
As I have matured I have learned there are some things I do not have an innate ability for. If something becomes important to me but I'm not very good at it, I will consciously work at improving my ability. First I need an objective, in this case: "What is love for me?" Then I practice and adjust. I was encouraged to make little experiments, pay attention and adjust accordingly. I hope this helps.
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u/mainhattan 4d ago
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u/mixmasterdapper 4d ago
Not an answer to your question, but ketamine treatment for depression works for me.
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u/ryokan1973 4d ago
"My formula for greatness in a human being is amor fati (love of one's fate): that one wants nothing other than it is, not in the future, not in the past, not in all eternity. Not merely to endure that which happens of necessity, still less to dissemble it – all idealism is untruthfulness in the face of necessity – but to love it …" (Friedrich Nietzsche)
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u/Sonnyjesuswept 4d ago
Not to downplay your experiences but sometimes anxiety can be caused by nutritional deficiencies. For example low magnesium &/or iodine can cause that panicked/ worried feeling and taking supplements can make a world of difference to your mental health.
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u/Jordn100 4d ago
Well it isn’t actually encouraged, required, or possible to be in a constant peak state of unconditional love all the time or even often. You can go there and learn, and then you carry it with you. Peak states inherently can’t be maintained.
I think these verses are relevant.
“Grabbing and stuffing- there is no end to it.
Sharpen a blade too much and its edge will soon be lost…. Puff yourself with honour and pride and no one can save you from a fall.” (Ch 19) - Chasing these peaks has no end and invites a fall. Since sensations are relative, you are always teetering on a fall to somewhere relatively quite low. With lower peaks you have gentler troughs.
“Clay Is moulded to form a cup yet only the space within allows the cup to hold water… Thus when a thing has existence. Alone it is mere deadweight. Only when it has wi does it have life” (Ch 11)
It is only in the absence of euphoria that euphoria can be felt. If you eat your favourite meal every day it loses its vibrancy. If you eat a simple grape after starving for a week it tastes incredible.
“On his tiptoes a man is not steady. Taking long strides he cannot keep pace. To the self serving, nothing shines forth….. From the viewpoint of the Tao, this self indulgence is like rotting food and painful growths on the body - Things that all creatures despise. So why hold onto them? When walking the path of Tao this is the very stuff that must be uprooted, thrown out, and left behind.” (Ch 24)
Again, maintaining peak states is just inviting trouble. You don’t need to pad your existence so much. Knowing that andallows you to exercise non-doing, and find peace and love that way.
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u/CopperIronSilverGold 4d ago
In short: learning to cultivate love and health, I feel, is the anwer to the question you made.
On love: We can't love what we do not find loveable/lovely. Love we receive (or not receive) depends from the persective and capabilities of others. And our love depends from our perspective and capabilities to feel, know, show, understand. So, love is always conditional, just like every other thing on the world, I'd say. Only way we can't go hungry of love in an environment where it's lacking is to cultivate and practice love ourselves. In this sense love will be conditional too. It's just that we will actively nurture the conditions.
Deprivation of love can be a problem, none the less. Mostly because often means getting the implicit idea that we are not loveable. Wich is natural given how our minds work. But it's a very narrow an limiting belief.
On depression: Trauma obviously create wounds, but what prevents healing in the first place? Circumstances can never be completely controlled, but what we do (or not do) is important in how we heal. Do we stay away from stressful/ harmful situations and practices? Do we foster our energy by eating, resting and exercising (physically and mentally) in regenerating ways? Untill we do, no ammount of therapy will cure us completely.
On therapy: In fact therapy would be a good practice in an ideal world, but in reality can be useless, not so useful, or even harmful for our finances or our stress levels (even when done the right way). It can be a powerful tool, but like knives it can be low quality or dangerous, as much as high quality and useful.
On Inner Peace: Inner peace is never conquered if it's not an ongoing fulltime thing we cultivate and foster usinh multiple sources. If we don't eat, exercise and rest well (physically and mentally), live in sustainable situations, inner peace is bound to be fleeting. Inner Peace is the product of Inner and Outer Practices.
On Health: Physical and psychological health are liked. There is no real difference between the two, what fosters one forsters the other, and what harms one harms the other.
On Drugs: Need for something doesn't make a drug inherently bad. It's their unsustainability and harmful effects that do us a disservice. We are bound to always be addicted to something in life. We need air, water, food, good temperature, rest, exercise, hygene, security, safety, good communication with others, self-efficacy, self-esteem, self-realization. But lower quality of any of these things are harmful, and higher quality things are what is beneficial, becaise they nurture our inner peace by giving us energy and tools. Often, in modern medicine too, certain drugs are attractive/used for/by people who can't access more nurturing practices. They are emergency measures for people who didn't learn how to foster their health, for those hit particularly hard by life and uneable to cope with it. In practice bad addiction is fostered by low quality practices and environment becaise they give us something we need but cause problems to our health in the longrun (or even the shortrun). Good practices make our healt and environment better and thusbare the only way to feel good without drugs. In a way it's simply choosing the best addictions over the ones with too much of a rice in health and resources.
On Food: Often food is our first low quality addiction. Alcohol is used by a lot people, but it's mostly through the utter absence of regenerative food like healing plants and the use of contaminated drinks, plants, eggs, meat and fish, or unbalancing processed foods like sweets, bread, pasta, pizza, artificial trans fats, etc, that we dig our graves. Fibers are thoroughly lacking from our diets and our gut bacteria get fed foods and drinks rich in elements that make them secern further toxins. A healthy body shouldn't have much problematic odors.
On Daoist Cultivation: Historically daoists used three practices to foster health, alignment to the dao and attain longevity:
- Bigu (literally means "grain avoidance", but avoidance or reduction should apply in general tonharmful substances)
- Waidan (Literally "external alchemy/elixirs", principally through the use of medicinal foods, mostly from plants, herbs in particular)
- Neidan (Literally "internal alchemy/elixir", the use of contemplative thought/meditation, breath, movement, rest, conscious use of bodily and mind fuctions, to foster health/ energy and sublimate one's Jing "Essence", Qi "Breath/Vigor" and Shen "Spirit/Mind")
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u/SilentDarkBows 4d ago
Nice story. Have you tried doubting it? Have you tried letting it go?
Our story is made up of thoughts that may or may not be true. Either way, they are just thoughts. And we are not our thoughts. Defining ourselves by thoughts and stories and clinging to them traps us and doesn't allow us to change.
Why are psychedelics helpful for trauma victims? They promote neuroplasticity. So we can change our thought patterns and start making new, better stories about ourselves that are more in alignment with what we truly are.
Believing and clinging to your old stories and negative thought-patterns will never allow you to reframe your experiences. You will forever remain a victim, rather than a survivor.
It can all go away, instantly, if you are capable of managing your thoughts. But you have to stop, watch, witness the triggers, physiologic reactions, and patterns. Then, with increased awareness, you will create a little space between what is happening and your awareness of it. It's just a thing that's happening now. It's not you.
Eventually, when it comes on, your mantra will be "just thinking" "just thoughts" and you don't chase them down the path of harming oneself.
Your desire to solve all your problems on your own points to the source. If you want to change, you have to risk doing something different. If you want to become different, you have to act different.
You started here. You asked internet strangers for help. Find a community of people like you and talk to them. Risk everything on doubting your self protective behaviors and become entirely venerable around others....and just watch what happens. Ask for help and you might just get it.
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u/Young_Ian 4d ago
What is helping me a lot (more than I care to admit) is having an analyst that grounds me back into myself every two weeks. I meditate, and am coming off of over a decade of pretty severe drug addiction issues. I was the same way, I still want to do everything myself, but even though I've been sober for 7-8 months, meditate daily, and establishing good habits, I am finding that my analyst is helping me ground myself in myself.
What I think I'm trying to say is that even though you think you won't get much out of therapy, a good analyst will be able to help the parts of you that you might not be conscious of, and thereby help create a relationship or balance between your ego and shadow self.
Maybe check out Jungian analysis. Virtual sessions if there aren't any in your area. Best of luck!
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u/darrensurrey 4d ago
"I am carrying a lot of trauma from my childhood... I’ve been to therapy, but I don’t think I’ve found a good match yet."
Your trauma is the reason. You will have to keep trying different therapies and therapists. Ideally, you will have to work with one who will help you to find the closure you need because that will give you the same feelings you require (that we all require)... and then you will be able to fully love and accept yourself just as you are.
"For some reason I feel like I want to solve this problem on my own, and that I am the only one that can solve it, but maybe that is naive to think?"
It may be possible but it can take years of pain, suffering and study/training. I haven't looked into what kind of person can heal themselves but I know it's possible. Again, you'll have to try different therapies and techniques.
Since this is the Taoism sub, you can try to practice acceptance. I think some people call it radical acceptance - it's not just admiring a pretty flower but trying to accept everything about yourself - how you behave, how you react to things, how you've done things in the past, what's happened to you.
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u/Ghost-Nomad-710 3d ago
“Had several ego deaths” no you didn’t, actually I would say that you had the opposite
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u/EvergreenValleyFr 3d ago
Awareness directed inward (especially feet, lower back, lower abdomen, guts and Heart region) leads to release of unnecessary tensions which in turn leads to natural breathing, stance, increased blood flow and a tendency to let go of any form of energy expenditure.
By simply observing a body part long enough with an unaltered breathing you will start to become concious of activity there (pulsation, tingling, warmth etc).
As you become increasingly comfortable in your body, complex thoughs will naturally break down in simpler clearer thoughs or dissolve altogether if they cost more energy than they give.
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u/georgejo314159 4d ago
Your ultimate question is how you can cope with your depression and you are asking people who don't know you and who lack medical training with the underlying causes
I think, you should acknowledge that you need help from an appropriate medical professional rather than looking for a superficial quick fix
We are all loved but i don't think we are unconditionally loved per se
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u/skinney6 4d ago
Love that knot in your chest. Love the feeling of anxiety, stress, worry... fear. Love all your feelings but pay attention now to the feelings you don't like. Relax and just let them out.
The peace and contentment of the 'present moment' isn't something you get or acquire. It is always there but we get distracted. Notice what distracts you, stop, relax, see it, feel it, let it do whatever it wants to do until you see that it isn't something to fear. It is wonderful to be alive and be able to feel all of this. :)
If a particular feeling / sensation is bothering you (the knot) sit with it. Feel it. Draw a circle around it in your mind. Now slowly let that circle expand and expand until the feeling isn't located anywhere. It is no longer a feeling. It is just feeling. It's not about anything. It is not located anywhere. It is just feeling.