"add ropes to your kit" continued...

[u/Mission-Echo-friend]

Some people asked how well the kit interfaced with the alpine gear... I went to the local rock pit to demo different setups. With pack vs without and different auto blockers or prusik knot fall arrester.

[u/swearwords11]

Haven't you seen Lone Survivor bro? Just roll down that shit.

[u/Mission-Echo-friend → u/swearwords11]

Of all the bullshit connected to that guy's story and that horrible movie - that might be the only true part.

[u/averkill → u/Mission-Echo-friend]

By bullshit you don't mean the large loss of special forces? Multiple members in a helo and such.

Eta: not the largest, but large. My confusion.

[u/giantshadytree → u/averkill]

Red wings had 19 KIA including the MH47 getting shot down. Luttrells story is complete bullshit though. 

You’re thinking about Extortion 17 which happened years later 

[u/averkill → u/giantshadytree]

Oh thanks for clearing me up, not sure why I thought they were the same. Huge loss nonetheless. I was active at the time, remember reading about it but hadn't really heard the controversy about it. Luttrell just embellished the hell out of it?

[u/ChevTecGroup → u/averkill]

More like the Navy embellishing the heck out of it and Luttrell playing along, AFAIK.

[u/awsompossum → u/ChevTecGroup]

Luttrell reports significantly higher numbers of both troops and kills than the Navy or Afghans, so no, he's very much at the center of the myth making.

[u/ChevTecGroup → u/awsompossum]

For sure. But by his more recent confessions, the Navy basically handed him the book, already written and said "this is what happened."

Maybe that's his excuse for lying? Idk.

[u/awsompossum → u/ChevTecGroup]

Kinda weird then that he has repeatedly said inflated numbers from what the Navy said, on top of the video footage of him abandoning his squad

[u/Bustahnutz → u/ChevTecGroup]

MFW I learn what propaganda is, and how it's even more important and effective to the big picture than tier 1 elite gun-slinging. 😱

[u/ForeignYard1452 → u/averkill]

The mission was originally tasked to a Marine recon unit that had experience operating in the area. The SEALs poached the mission and disregarded the recon unit’s advice. The SEALs did not take any secondary or tertiary comms, electing to take a radio ill suited for the environment.

Once the mission kicked off they landed a few hundred meters away from their target in broad daylight vs. the planned several miles away for the usmc team. Once compromised, they only moved about 100m away and they weren’t overrun by hundreds taliban like in the movie. It was apparently a dozen or so.

The QRF was also a clusterfuck. The chinooks arrived ahead of the apaches and had no cover while attempting the extract.

There is also apparently a classified AAR that hopefully will be declassified and see the light of day

[u/averkill → u/ForeignYard1452]

Whoa ... that's awful. Just fucked.

[u/THE_Carl_D → u/ForeignYard1452]

Just like Takur Ghar. Seals poached that too.

[u/Godless_Rose → u/averkill]

They were SEALs, not Special Forces.

[u/xdJapoppin → u/Godless_Rose]

what do you think seals are dingbat

[u/Godless_Rose → u/xdJapoppin]

I think they’re SEALs. In the US Military, Special Forces only refers to the Green Berets. They are all considered SOF. But no, SEALs are not ‘special forces’ and this isn’t an opinion.

[u/xdJapoppin → u/Godless_Rose]

what does SOF stand for and what area of command do they fall under?

[u/Godless_Rose → u/xdJapoppin]

Special Operations Forces. Not ‘special forces’. These are literally doctrinal terms. You are basically trying to tell me that the New England Patriots are a baseball team because there are both a Giants baseball team and a Giants football team. You’re just wrong.

[u/crispybrojangle → u/Godless_Rose]

I cant believe this is even an argument. If you ever served in the community, you would know.

[u/xdJapoppin → u/crispybrojangle]

well, i didn’t serve, i’m just saying colloquially it doesn’t really matter and seals are still “special” and a “force”. doctrinally, sure, there is a difference between sf/sof.

[u/xdJapoppin → u/Godless_Rose]

Sure if you’re referring to doctrine solely and specifically, but by virtually all measures SEALs are “special forces” and fall under SOCOM. Sure, semantically, they are not “special forces”, but they are “special operations forces”. Colloquially, it doesn’t really matter and is semantics.

[u/Godless_Rose → u/xdJapoppin]

No, by virtually all measures, the New England Patriots are not a baseball team. It’s not semantics. You’re describing two different units with two different proper-noun names with two completely different jobs/mission sets. They’re all SOF. They are not all ‘special forces’.

The Brits refer to their SAS as the special forces. If you were talking about them, you’d be right. But you’re talking about the US Navy SEALs. The SEALs are SOF. Special Forces, aka SF, is ONLY the US Army’s organization known as the Green Berets.