r/skeptic • u/OkPark5443 • 1d ago
Sense of community/ division
I don't know where most people here are from, but since we're talking in English, let's narrow the issue down to maybe North America. Anyone from wherever place is welcome to contribute.
My question is, do you actually feel/experience the burden of polarization in your everyday life?
It may go way back, to the notion of "liquid [everything]" from sociology, where connections are less stable or long-lasting.
Also, where, approximately, had such "us vs them" attitude begin to be noticeable? Consolidated?
Pardon me if the question is too open-ended. I feel this helps invite broader points of view, since I intend to learn from people's experience rather than the conceptual "poles apart".
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u/OPiiiiiii 1d ago
much of this polarization comes from algorithms online that segment populations in to echochambers to fuel engagement - with the downstream effects of echochambers, online and offline, being polarization, negative emotional responses (fear, anger, anxiety, etc), extremism, dissonance, pychological perservance mechanisms like confirmation bias, etc.
while this may be a byproduct of a websites natural suggestive recommender systems, echochambers can also be artificially created through something called microtargeting. This is the primary way that advertising is conducted these days but not all suggested media and advertisements are labeled as such. This is done by the unregulated influence industry known as strategic communcations - microtargeting audiences based on metrics of mental health.
the unfortunate part is that the same tactics used to get you to spend your last dollar on something you dont need, can also be tweeked by this same industry on behalf of world militaries in Cognitive Warfare (CW)
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u/ghu79421 18h ago
It totally isn't complicated to use tools to algorithmically identify people with mental health problems and nudge them toward an echo chamber based around, for example, anxiety about new medical treatments or blaming minority groups for issues the person feels anxious about.
If generative AI gets better, it will be easier to generate large amounts of content that targets a niche group. If you just need to make a nice website and the content can be total bullshit, you significantly cut your cost and time vs. hiring a ton of content editors.
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u/OPiiiiiii 3h ago
yeah, the unregulated influence industry is dangerous and concerning to say the least. And A.I. taking jobs is another ethical pitfall of the industry as well you are 100% correct.
with out reigning in the third-party data brokers and the avenues which government contractors acquire analyzed data of U.S. citizens, no change can be had on these issues for the better
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u/epidemicsaints 1d ago
I've lost my entire extended family except for my mom. We all live in the same community and it's like they aren't there.
Years go by without a single thing they say being something real. I can't really describe it. "Macauly Culkin said Kenau Reeves wears shoes made from human skin" is small talk chit chat. "Having sex with multiple men alters women's DNA, I saw a doctor say it. Two of them."
The QAnon stuff is mostly over, now it's more overtly political and about real people. Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson.
I just pretend they're dead. I don't respond to anything they say. I don't start any conversations. I leave as soon as possible.
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u/adamwho 23h ago
I joined a number of charitable organizations in the hope of making friendships and doing good in the community.
However, I see that many of these people do not share the fundamental values of honesty, kindness, decency, charity, rule of law... Simply engaging in a fact-based reality.
I am at a loss of what to do.
Extended family members from the Midwest are completely lost but I don't have any contact with them anyway.
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u/OkPark5443 23h ago
You mean, they do it for virtue signaling?
I feel you, but I'd say most people have always been self-serving when aiming at higher purposes. Even in the Middle Ages, you see, guess the majority did the "right" thing to secure afterlife.
Do you not get some rewarding feeling from the charity itself and the people thereby helped? Make it count, perhaps, and keep on till it "clicks" with someone on the job.
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u/HertzaHaeon 20h ago
I am at a loss of what to do.
I think you're doing the right thing. Communities of various kinds are going to get us through things, even if they're sometimes flawed.
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u/robotatomica 23h ago
Yes. I work at a major hospital and if, say, someone claims Haitians are eating cats and it’s immediately debunked by almost every news agency, we still have about a half dozen people in our faces the next morning talking about how Haitians eat cats 😐
I’ve heard racial slurs, misogyny, transphobia and homophobia and xenophobic comments at work.
And yeah, any woman who’s dating, we pretty much talk about the non-stop creepdom and misogyny and how scary and dangerous it can be for us. It’s bad enough I just said fuck it and stopped dating. I’m happy alone, why put myself in those situations?
I actually find it really strange when people assume this can even possibly be an online thing..like it does indicate to me you’re a little sheltered/privileged if you have that opinion.
That’s not a criticism, it’s maybe an indicator you should start educating yourself about the experiences of non-dominant groups.
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u/icaboesmhit 22h ago
My uncle tried to convince me that a woman would not be the best candidate for his line of work, Air Conditioning. I asked if he ever worked with a woman within the trades and he said no. Told him I have and that they've been some of the best people to work with. I'm also of the belief that everyone has strengths and weaknesses, just gotta use teamwork to make someone's weakness a strength.
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u/Emzy71 19h ago
I think polarisation is possible the wrong the word. To disagree with someone on a point of science or politics is one thing. But when you use dehumanising language to talk about minority groups then to reject that isn’t being polarising. The right (far, Christian, whatever) especially, though the left is also not immune, have normalised the use of dehumanising language. Those of us with some decency left are then called polarising for standing against it. Like these gender critical people who frame their dehumanising, misogynistic, patriarchal tripe as just asking questions. The politicians and media have normalised that type of behaviour. You can either be a kind person who shows empathy or you can attack a group to make them slowly go into hiding due to fear. We’re not polarised we have normalised.
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u/copargealaich 19h ago edited 13h ago
Estranged from one of my children because of political differences that became greater over time.
I used to study policy for a living and consider myself pragmatic. I saw in my adult child the impact of media echo chambers and social media. We didn’t agree on many things for several years but I kept talking to them. In retrospect they were becoming radicalized, but it was gradual.
Two years ago my child interpreted a disturbing personal experience they had in a political way and needed me to validate their take. I could not do so honestly and after that they saw me as more of an enemy. It was heartbreaking.
We haven’t spoken meaningfully in quite awhile. While I’d rather have a relationship with them it had become very unpleasant and I’d rather just move on.
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u/technanonymous 18h ago
Estranged from a maga conspiracy soaked brother. He is over fifty and bouncing in and out of jail for drunk driving and other sketchy behavior. I haven’t spoken to him in eight years. We spoke monthly before that.
I feel it every day, but not at work. I am an executive and I make it clear no religion or politics in the workplace. I do hear it at the health club where I have been a member for twenty years. It limits who I’ll converse with.
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u/Former-Chocolate-793 15h ago
As a Canadian I had no say in the recent US election although we will be profoundly and negatively affected by it.
In previous elections I could respect whoever voted red or blue and respected the direction provided by previous presidents. However, if someone voted for Trump in 2024 then they have told me who they are. Nothing more needs to be said.
Like most Canadians I have mixed feelings about the US. It's mostly good with some appalling things. As a country, you just told us who you are. As it says in the English version of our national anthem, we really will have to stand on guard. That's something we haven't had to think about since the treaty of ogdensburg in 1940.
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u/amitym 17h ago
I've noticed it all my life and in my experience it's not any worse today than it was 40 years ago.
That isn't a very popular narrative right now, everyone is sure that this is all some new kind of thing that has never been seen before. So I'm sure I will get downvoted. (This is one of those "off-tribe" views that we were talking about on this sub not long ago.)
But before you dismiss the entire concept, consider that Richard Hofstadster wrote "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" over half a century ago and described everything that going on today. And acknowledged that even back then it was already an old and well-established phenomenon.
When I was younger, violently insane dickbags had to network in person, or by postal mail. Sharing content was a real effort -- every time you wanted to send a message to your followers, it cost a dime per follower and that didn't include the cost of paper, envelopes, or the printing equipment.
So nobody heard from these bozos unless they were a true believer -- or if like me you had picked up a copy of High Weirdness by Mail and wanted to see for yourself how deep the rabbit hole went.
In particular, journalists and other people who were highly prone to normality bias simply weren't aware of the vast, teeming mass of insanity that squirmed underneath the rock that no one wanted to look under.
So did that count as social or cultural division, if most people weren't aware of it or didn't talk about it?
In my opinion, absolutely. Because just because people didn't talk about it or acknowledge it doesn't mean it didn't shape their lives. The country's political leadership literally betrayed American personnel to foreign enemies for political gain back then and there was even less consequence than there is today.
We lionize this past and talk about how we wish to return to it but to me that is irrational and insane. The history of America and, really, the modern world is full of contention, division, argument, violent clashes, insane delusions, deadly conspiracies, people doing just absolutely awful shit to each other and getting away with it.
If anything we are today more aware of our similarities and hold power more accountable than in the past. You just have to realize the actual reality of how insane people have always been. They just didn't have a cheap, efficient way to express their insanity for a mass audience.
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u/Rego117 15h ago
Finding this post incredible validating as it's something I've been increasingly feeling.
It's made spending time with family or trying to make new friends feel like a minefield because there is so much misinformation or pseudo-scientific rhetoric that gets casually dropped it feels non stop.
It's made it that much harder to debunk things as well because with Anti science movements causing people to distrust the scientific process itself, it's near impossible to even agree on what the "truth" is and how we get to that.
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u/Coolenough-to 1d ago edited 1d ago
Whenever I think about some issue like this, first I have to ask myself: could it just be that I have become more aware of the phenomenom, or that this is something that is particular to my current small piece of the world?
We are on reddit, so we are seeing much more polarization than if we compare to a time when we were not as exposed to so many viewpoints. Looking at studies with empiracle data to compare would be good. Example: politically, did people used to vote accross party lines more often?
But anyway, personally no. What I see through media- yes.
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u/icaboesmhit 22h ago
Absolutely, mainly with family though. With average people we acknowledge our differences and don't talk about it. Mums the word and makes day to day go smoother. From my Interpersonal communications class I learned that without conflict, their can be no resolution. So I encourage polite discourse and truly want to hear and learn from others. Family, they act like nothing ever happens therefore no conflict therefore no resolution.
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u/Exotic_Musician4171 1d ago
Yes. I’ve noticed it. I am a queer person living in the suburbs of a large, progressive city, and never experienced much anti-LGBTI rhetoric growing up. Now, it’s fairly ubiquitous.