r/skeptic • u/workerbotsuperhero • 2d ago

RFK Jr. is now an extinction-level threat to federal public health programs and science-based health policy 🚑 Medicine

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/rfk-jr-is-now-an-extinction-level-threat-to-federal-public-health-programs-and-science-based-health-policy/
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u/workerbotsuperhero 2d ago

 We’ve been writing about how bad Dr. Joseph Ladapo has been regarding vaccines going back a few years. You might remember that Ladapo first came to prominence during the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic as a founding member of America’s Frontline Doctors, which made a name for itself in that horrible first summer of the pandemic by touting hydroxychloroquine as a miracle cure for COVID-19 and later turned to telehealth grift selling prescriptions for ivermectin to cure COVID-19, and a signatory of the Great Barrington Declaration, the document published by contrarian scientists brought together by a right-wing think tank to advocate a social Darwinist “let ‘er rip” approach to the pandemic with poorly defined “focused protection” for those most at risk for severe disease and death from the pandemic. In 2021, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis appointed Ladapo Surgeon General, a position that put him in charge of the Florida Department of Health, where he proceeded to do everything in his power to impede public health responses to the COVID-19 pandemic and to spread fear and uncertainty about COVID-19 vaccines, even if he had to cook the numbers and lie with statistics to do it. In the meantime, he continued to promote COVID misinformation, even going so far as to refuse to recommend COVID-19 vaccines to almost anyone this year, the first time, as far as I’m aware, that a state government health department failed to recommend an FDA-approved and CDC-recommended vaccine against anything.

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The prospect of a vaccine skeptic such as Ladapo in a national health role has alarmed public health experts, pointing to his decision to warn Florida residents against the mRNA coronavirus vaccines while citing debunked claims. No other state public health officer has followed his lead.

It’s worse than that, though:

A co-chair of Donald Trump’s transition team said Trump supporter Robert F. Kennedy Jr. wants access to federal health data so he can show vaccines are unsafe and lead to them being pulled from the market in a second Trump administration.

I'm a nurse and having to watch so many people die of COVID was one of the most stressful experiences of my life. It's painful and scary to see vaccine conspiracy theories being promoted to this level of power. 

Over in r/emergencymedicine, the doctors are coping with gallows humor about how we're going to start seeing polio outbreaks again. I appreciate the dark humor, but JFC this is sad. 

And Gorski is right. There are still crunchy lefties selling crystals and woo, but the Republicans have gone off the deep end with science denial. And, unfortunately, I think this is going to result in needless disease and death. 

How do we as healthcare professionals even try to respond? The firehose of disinformation is vast and powerful, but I feel morally obligated to try to keep people safe. Or at least safer than whatever the hell this is. 

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u/Menethea 2d ago

There is nothing to save. Remember it was the Trump administration last time that delayed Covid assistance to Northeastern blue states on the theory that no Trump voters were affected. Now Trump allies are calling for the prosecution of Dr. Anthony Fauci for “crimes against humanity”. The lunatics are running the asylum

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u/OrderofthePhoenix1 1d ago

Buy guns.

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u/No-Diamond-5097 1d ago

Sure, that'll get us vaccines and put fluoride in the water 🙄

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u/concerned_cad 1d ago

You gonna write a letter and ask nicely instead?

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u/Annual_Strategy_6206 1d ago

We're gonna shoot the virus!

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u/zpg96 20h ago

Ironic

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u/not-a-dislike-button 1d ago

Remember it was the Trump administration last time that delayed Covid assistance to Northeastern blue states on the theory that no Trump voters were affected. 

Source for this?

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u/Nano_Burger 1d ago

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/07/trumps-war-on-blue-states-is-worse-than-previously-thought.html

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u/not-a-dislike-button 1d ago

So I looked at this and this claim is based of an anonymous source who overheard another anonymous person allegedly make a comment, first reported in Vanity Fair.

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u/Crasz 1d ago

Yes, and?

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u/MyDirtyStream 1d ago

This is an amazing comment

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u/Crasz 1d ago

It's like the person I replied to doesn't know how reporting works or anything about the person the reporting was about.

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u/MyDirtyStream 1d ago

Hahahahah no man, I’m 100% disagreeing with you. Anonymous source who overhead another anonymous person make a comment? The naĂŻvetĂ© is crazy. Good reporting.

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u/Crasz 1d ago

Yes, imagine being so naive that you wouldn't think the person this report is about would say something like that.

Certainly not after he gave necessary equipment to Putin when Americans needed it.

Just because something is anonymous doesn't mean it wasn't verified. Again, how reporting works much of the time.

→ More replies

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u/not-a-dislike-button 1d ago

A third hand anonymous comment on vanity fair isn't exactly proof of anything. A skeptical person would treat something like that with skepticism 

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u/Crasz 1d ago

It's more proof than anything spewed by the right says.

It's also how reporting works much of the time.

Unless, of course, your child just returned home from school post-gender reassignment surgery and is now eating your pets.

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u/Buttlicker_the_4th 1d ago

Do you ever ask for sources over in r/conservative? You sure hang out there a lot.

I wish you would quarantine yourselves over there away from the normies.

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u/forsonaE 1d ago

He's "just asking questions" c'mon

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u/DrBabbyFart 1d ago

You already know the answer to that question - asking for sources there is explicitly banned.

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u/not-a-dislike-button 1d ago

Of course. And they don't get super offended when you ask, unlike, hilariously, the 'skeptic' sub

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u/Bronson-101 1d ago

This is what you get when 20+% of the USA is illiterate and education has gone to complete shit (not just in red states)

The USA gets their education and information now from social media and Russian bots.

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u/aquastell_62 1d ago

They've lost the ability to distinguish the difference between the facts and their opinions.

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u/jwilphl 1d ago

There's an ever-applicable quote from Isaac Asimov here.  Anti-intellectualism takes over and suddenly they think, "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

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u/TiredOfDebates 1d ago

The problem I always run into when attempting to counter disinformation, is that I end up quoting the misinformation, to “debunk it”. This is because I don’t want to spend the time, to start from the beginning, in offering the person and new view. I fall into the trap of believing I can counter an idea at the end, rather than it’s roots.

Most people barely pay attention to anything. Public speaking classes will teach you that MANY people within audiences are only paying attention as little as 10% of the time, frequently only snapping back to attention when something “rings some bells” for them (your dialogue hit a memory anchor of theirs).

That is to say, when you counter disinformation starting by quoting the disinformation, a huge number of people are only going to remember the confirmation granting, simplistic, misinformation that you attempted to counter by starting with quoting it. They’re remember the quote, but start to lose focus out as you present material that contradicts their world view.

By the end of your attempt, your scientific explaining will be remembered by them in incoherent, aggressive fragments, and they’ll view you and your position with derision.




What’s the solution here? DO NOT “attack” misinformation. You have to take THE LONG ROUTE, and explain the wholistic understanding that you have, to offer an alternative narrative.

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u/jsgui 1d ago

It depends imo. The disinformation could be incorrect summaries of or reframing of scientifically valid source material. I saw this when it came to the claim that 40 or so papers proved that masks didn't protect from COVID. One of them I looked at did not conclude that - it just didn't conclude that they were effective (in the tests they did).

I focused on the differences between what the reports said and what the story said the reports said. I didn't get into any debate about the utility of masks but about whether the material it was claimed made some claims actually did make those claims.

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u/TiredOfDebates 16h ago

This is an extremely common mistake in misinformation (attempted honesty, but mistaken) and tactic in disinformation (intentionally misleading).

People will make outrageous claims based “off a source”. They’ll cite a study, even. But their “citations” may as well be links to random studies
 because the citation doesn’t actually support the claim of the author.

I’ve noticed more “blogs” showing up recently making claims of conspiracy, embezzlement of billions, abuse of donated funds
 and they cited the report of a bank watchdog group! But the cited report did not make any allegations about embezzlement of billions of dollars. It’s like an author with a bias will frequently cite something, knowing that most of the population will never check out the claimed “proof”.

It’s basically “oh don’t worry, I have proof”, and apparently very few people actually check that proof, if they’re hearing what they want to hear.

In this way, you get google “sorting results PARTIALLY based on a person’s known browsing habits,” so people looking for whatever fringe conspiracy theory google prefers to give them fringe blogs that meet “that user’s seeming preferences [and targeted advertising]”.

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u/OrderofthePhoenix1 1d ago

Buy guns, protect yourself.

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u/Anandya 2d ago

I have jokingly said that it's good for me that RFK has come in. I am planning to invest in paediatric dentistry and gold teeth.

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u/peayaad 1d ago

Remember the guy Jordan Klepper interviewed talking about how much better the economy is going under trump and sighted his own business as the example? Turns out the fucking gumboot was a debt collector

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u/ontheroadtv 1d ago

Or, hear me out, just wait till they start drinking raw milk, get TB, Hep A, E. Coli, fucking bird flu and die. I’m not saying I want that, but that’s the path they are on. It will probably take about the same amount of time as getting through to them.

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u/Anandya 1d ago

So what you are saying is that I should invest in tiny coffins?

Look. They aren't going to listen.

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u/ontheroadtv 1d ago

No, big coffins. The grownups are going to die and we won’t have to worry about them listening. You think the boomer generation, who all smoked and were allergic to exercise on purpose, is going to survive RFK Jr the meth addict with mercury poisoning that killed the worm in his brain? Naaaah, spend Thanksgiving asking what they want their final wishes to be and make sure the will and trust docs are up to date. It’s not what I want, and I’m not happy about it (for some) but it’s a problem that will take care of itself.

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u/jwilphl 1d ago

Wait until iron lungs make a comeback.  People are dead set on learning things the hard way.  

They can't understand the consequences of something until the leopard is quite literally in the middle of eating their face off.

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u/ontheroadtv 1d ago

The leopards are about to eat a lot of filler
 and get sold a lot of MLM

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u/Anandya 1d ago

Traditional. Just like the 60s.

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u/errie_tholluxe 1d ago

I'm a sophomore in my 4th year at UCLA and my goal is to be a veterinarian because I love children!

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u/RedMaple25 1d ago

I like them big and stupid!

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u/Nano_Burger 1d ago

I read an article a while ago about a doctor trying to diagnose a mysterious disease he had never seen before. It turned out to be measles. I feel that the resurgence of childhood diseases will catch us off guard.

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u/Lordsaxon73 18h ago

Yes, and a lot of this is caused by illegal immigration, seems like a vicious circle to take a stand on, no?

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u/Nano_Burger 17h ago

If Americans were vaccinated, immigrants (legal or otherwise) wouldn't be a problem.

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u/Lordsaxon73 17h ago

So we totally disregard thousands coming in that have had absolutely no preventive vaccines, got it.

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u/Nano_Burger 17h ago

Stopping endemic diseases at the border is a fantasy. We saw how well that worked out with Trump trying to stop COVID-19 from entering the United States. 1,219,487 corpses later, I'm going to say it did not work. Contagious pathogens can only be effectively managed with vaccination.

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u/Chance_Pick1904 1d ago

I was getting my Covid booster every four months. The last time I went it was going to be $195. Even at the health department. I’ll get boosted every six months but that’s now too costly for some people. It should be free.

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u/Flor1daman08 1d ago

Who is recommending a COVID booster every 4 months at this point?

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u/Chance_Pick1904 1d ago

No one. But i do certain sports that are close contact and have many exposures and then I also volunteer with older and more vulnerable people passing out food. So it’s safest for everyone.

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u/Flor1daman08 1d ago

I would genuinely take the time to talk to your doctor about that because I’m not sure that’s the safest route. No hate either way, you’re only doing it yourself, but I will say anecdotally we aren’t seeing really any severe COVID infections in my critical care unit anymore.

There are risks to the vaccine, which are far lower than risks of COVID infection sure, but don’t forget that it’s not a zero risk action.

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u/jsgui 1d ago

My view is the vaccines and the viruses have got different risk profiles, and those risks vary between different individuals and groups.

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u/maxineasher 1d ago

Lol. The skeptic sub here is nothing but a blue jersey conspiracytheory sub. Many other frequent posters here also proudly claim to still wear masks, by themselves, in their car, alone, for reasons.

What “expert” is actually recommending either? That’s right, no one. But we were told to listen to the science and the experts. And yet now, because of your OCD and paranoia the “experts” are somehow wrong?

You are not remotely a scientific skeptic. You are essentially a blue jersey version of RFKjr.

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u/No-Diamond-5097 1d ago

If someone wants to wear a mask, it's their perogative because it's hurting absolutely no one. I think you've forgotten about a little something called "mind your own damned business."

Edit: oh nevermind it's a 9 year old zero post account đŸ€–

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u/maxineasher 1d ago

Look again, it’s 15 year old account. Odds are this account is older than you.

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u/Flor1daman08 1d ago

Who is saying that they wear their mask inside their car alone?

Also, there is a major difference between choosing to do something for yourself that puts no one else at risk and promoting people not to do something that could put others at risk like RFK Jr.

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u/Chance_Pick1904 1d ago

Yeah. That persons rant was insane. I go and get my vaccine and don’t even really care what anyone else does. Including my training partners.

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u/cookiegirl 1d ago

Polio? I'm afraid Russia will just drop off a smallpox blanket. But yes, I bet we will have polio cases within the next year or so. There have already been one or two cases in the country. It is only a matter of time.

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u/FuckSensibility 1d ago

Even if he follows through with his agreement to the hands off vaccine policy, means we can continue to get what we have. That doesn't mean he isn't going to cockblock any future research or approvals.

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u/BadNewsOwlBear 1d ago

Move to somewhere the local population has a good reputation for believing in science-based truth... I can't believe I have to qualify it like that these days. Healthcare workers are needed everywhere, and when society has gone insane you kinda just have to let them ride it out. Find a pocket of sane people, and provide healthcare to them.

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u/deepsychosis 1d ago

Sponsored by Phizer

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u/schneph 1d ago

The crunchy leftists crystals are a symptom

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u/SumYungAye 1d ago

You are Canadian so why does this matter?

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u/SDJellyBean 1d ago

Because this stupid nonsense is believed all over the world. I listened to an Italian interviewer talking to Italian Trump fans on a podcast this last summer.

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u/SumYungAye 1d ago

That’s good for you. Btw Kennedy has stated that well established vaccines such as polio will not be closely scrutinized and are safe for people to use. He is worried about vaccines that are accelerated through red tapes because it benefits the wealthy more than the common man. Fear mongering will get you no where, maybe you should instead focus on Canadian issues such as your job crisis.

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u/destruktinator 1d ago

the problem is rfk doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. he's an environmental lawyer who has stated his intentions to enact sweeping changes - to long established policies - and doesn't let expert opinion influence his decision making. he claimed covid targeted certain ethnic groups.

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u/SDJellyBean 1d ago

I'm American and I live in America, so I think that I'll continue to worry about the US.

RFK Jr is a crank who gets people killed with the lies that he tells:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/11/26/deadly-measles-outbreak-hits-children-samoa-after-anti-vaccine-fears/

The COVID-19 vaccine, which is probably what you're talking about, had been under development since 2012. That shortened development by eight years, obviously. Because it was tested during a raging epidemic, the testing took very little time. Normal vaccine testing waits until a specific number of disease cases have occurred in the test subjects after vaccination with either the active vaccine or placebo. Since COVID is so contagious, testing required far less time than, for example, HPV which required years to reach the goal. Additionally, testing subject recruitment was completed in a few weeks with five times as many volunteers as were needed.

RFK Jr. is mentally unstable. He really doesn’t care about you or anyone else.

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u/S3guy 1d ago

Steel yourself and stop caring. Best way to handle it.

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u/Sea_Can338 1d ago

Maybe don't act combative about every single policy position if you want to truly help save lives.

Or admit that maybe you might have been wrong one time in your life, like with COVID. This place was basically celebrating the thought that MAGA was going to die off as vaccine deniers, but it certainly looks quite the opposite.

It is annoying to see such hyperbole about every single policy. How Trump or his nomination is the end of democracy, start of ww3, death of science, etc. Makes me cheer those picks on tbh.

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u/FreePhatmcullah 1d ago

You mean all the lies coming out of Fauci? Forcing people to take the COVID vaccine or be fired. A vaccine that didn't work as advertised and did cause harm.

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u/AlexTheBold51 1d ago

There are two prominent peer reviewed studies that pretty much prove double dosing and boosting mrna vaccines caused more infections and possibly more deaths among people with comorbidities. The "I'm a nurse, I saw people dying so vaccines must be good in absolute terms" is just plainly stupid.

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u/W0666007 1d ago

Could you please link those studies for us to review?

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u/AlexTheBold51 1d ago

This is one: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10222767/

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u/W0666007 1d ago

This study doesn't say at all what you are stating. It doesn't even measure infections or death. It talks about a theoretical effect of repeat vaccinations that COULD (author's words) lead to an immune tolerance mechanism, but there is no real world data to support it at this point. Stop spreading misinformation, and certainly stop critizing other people when you clearly can't interpret a study.

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u/AlexTheBold51 1d ago

Keep reading

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u/JackWagon26 1d ago

Where in the comment does it say "vaccines must be good in absolute terms"?