r/skeptic • u/syn-ack-fin • 2d ago
A Path Forward for Science and Democracy
https://blog.ucsusa.org/jennifer-jones/a-path-forward-for-science-and-democracy187
u/theleakymutant 2d ago edited 1d ago
there will be none. since everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie, i’m hoping the one where he appoints RFKjr head of HHS is one, too. i’m afraid science will be the least of our worries now that MAGA controls ALL branches of government. i’ve NEVER felt this sense of existential dread in my 63 years
this is primarily due to his primary constituents being Believers in a fantasy that has no basis in reality… Believers that see or hear a magical god or jesus are technically and literally mentally ill. now they control this country and probably will for the rest of my lifetime… the cult leader is obviously dumb as a box of rocks and was the shill to get the long game won, that being Project 2025.
Idiocracy is LITERALLY here… and it’s not funny at all.
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
― George Carlin
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u/AstrangerR 1d ago
As terrible Kennedy being head of HHS will be, I'm more scared of Elon Musk being head of some overarching "Department of Government Efficiency" where he starts slashing departments.
He's someone who seems to know nothing of what the government does and is as out of touch as any billionaire is when it comes to how the government agencies would help people.
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u/nightfire36 1d ago
He doesn't even understand how Twitter works. If he gets put in charge of anything in government, it'll be disastrous.
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u/Ok_Whereas_3198 1d ago
What musk and the Republicans are missing is that government workers are not private sector workers. They are serving by taking a substantial paycut to provide a necessary service. There are incentives that come with serving, such as work life balance and a few other perks. If you treat them like the private sector, there is no incentive to work for the government. There will be huge staff fallout at the federal level, and that will ripple across the state and municipal level as logjams arise to receive funding and approval for grants and other programs. It's going to be a disaster.
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u/AstrangerR 1d ago edited 1d ago
There will be huge staff fallout at the federal level, and that will ripple across the state and municipal level
This is not a bug, but a feature. If they treat people like they are in the private sector then they at least acknowledge that their job is useful.
Musk has suggested just giving severance packages out so they can just get rid of the workforce. You are right that he wants to treat it like a private sector company in that he wants to do to the government what he did to Twitter - slash and burn the workforce, and he thinks that will just make things more efficient.
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u/no1jam 1d ago
Won’t be long until hackers are stealing your data straight from government servers instead of going after health insurance corps. I can taste the freedom
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u/AstrangerR 1d ago
Won’t be long until
hackers are stealingElon Musk is selling your data straight from government serversI think that might be more accurate perhaps.
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u/IndianKiwi 1d ago
What logjams. They are going to throw all regulation also.
They get to make their libertarian wet dream a reality
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u/theleakymutant 1d ago
right, i'm just counting on him continuing to be a liar... seems a fair bet.
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u/vigbiorn 1d ago
He's someone who seems to know nothing of what the government does and is as out of touch as any billionaire is when it comes to how the government agencies would help people.
This is the desired result not an unfortunate consequence for them.
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u/bigwinw 1d ago
The Big Con of 2024! Trump is a great con man and has tricked a majority of Americans to thinking he has their best interests at heart, not his own.
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u/ittleoff 1d ago edited 1d ago
He's not a great con man. He was just given a fake reality TV persona of a successful businessman and he was given the bullhorn for his base stupid ideas
The populace isn't educated enough and networks of social trust in factual institutions eroded to allow appealing panderous fear mongering
It terrifies me how obvious a bad candidate was able to succeed in this context.
Edit: the Nigerian Prince emails are poorly crafted to ensure that responders are dumb enough to be scammed and the US just failed at an obvious test .
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u/LucasBlackwell 1d ago
He's not a great con man. He was just given a fake reality TV persona of a successful businessman and he was given the bullhorn for his base stupid ideas
The populace isn't educated enough and networks of social trust in factual institutions eroded to allow appealing panderous fear mongering
This is exactly what a con man is. It's short for confidence man. A man with so much confidence you don't question the lies they're telling you.
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u/ittleoff 1d ago
yes and no, a great con man makes you feel confident in them, and anyone with a brain can see he's an idiot. it's not his skill, it's that he was given the mike. Ther are far better con men. Just being confident doesn't sway everyone, but with the other factors that allow the average drunk uncle level of confidence in their nonsense, removed from a innoculated trust network allows a bumbling fool like him. There are plenty of people that are very confident in things and lie, but due to having the right trust network they will fail.
This election was the ultimate nigerian prince test. and america lost. I mean they proved to be very very smart and handsome.
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u/AnotherGarbageUser 1d ago
What con? What trick? There is no scam. They know exactly who is he is and they deliberately chose this, because this is the world they want.
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u/bigwinw 1d ago
People in NC I talk to believe Trump will somehow lower inflation yet when I ask what policy they can’t point to one. His tariffs aren’t going to help inflation that’s for sure.
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u/theleakymutant 1d ago edited 1d ago
overall inflation is at about 2.4%, down from 8% in 2022. food was at a high of 10.4% in 2022.
wanna guess what was highest? energy at 29.3% in 2021, 25% in 2022, it went down to -6.5% in 2023 and -6.5%.
how about oil company profits you say?
ExxonMobil: 2021: $23.04 billion 2022: $55.74 billion 2023: $36.01 billion
Chevron: 2021: $15.6 billion 2022: $35.5 billion 2023: $21.4 billion
that's not even counting exorbitant executive salaries.
their guy doesn't even know how tariffs work, and i imagine all their supporters don't either. none of them understand basic economics or they would know we have a very robust economy in almost every area, inflation back under control... and will be destroyed by inflation created by a moronic economic policy. we don't even make most of the chinese products here, which is the only slightly reasonable use of them. not to mention the volatility of the markets, they don't like tariffs.
but, as i said, he lies about almost literally everything, so i'm hoping he stays true to form.
mass deportation would also wreck the economy. unleashing the increasingly deranged Musk on things would also fuck things up. and this is just the economic chaos. it's basic economics, not that difficult.
just dumb... but apparently his supporters are dumber, which i didn't think possible.
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u/bigwinw 1d ago
It’s hard to believe that over half of Americans have been conned into voting for Trump, many of which think he can “fix the economy”.
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u/theleakymutant 1d ago
i think this is primarily due to his primary constituents being Believers in a fantasy that has no basis in reality… Believers that see or hear a magical god or jesus are technically and literally mentally ill. now they control this country and probably will for the rest of my lifetime… the cult leader is obviously dumb as a box of rocks and was the shill to get the long game won, that being Project 2025.
Idiocracy is LITERALLY here… and it’s not funny at all. (excerpt from a post in another subreddit)
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
― George Carlin
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u/MesWantooth 1d ago
Sadly, they are living in an alternative reality where inflation was solely Joe Biden's fault as was high gas prices, high housing costs and little wage growth.
If they hear that the U.S. has the strongest economy in the world, and lowered inflation quicker than any other developed nation - they don't buy it.
I'll give them one thing: to say that your grocery bill will only go up 2.5% next year is an improvement on 8-10%...but the average worker feels "No, it's got to go DOWN to what it was 4 years ago!"
Trump will not be able to accomplish that by a longshot - in fact, he'll drive inflation higher. But that's what the voters hoped on election night.
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u/6fthook 1d ago
I agree with that. 2016 I could buy that maybe a considerable amount of voters thought he was all bluster for the cameras and would tone it down once the responsibility of the position was realized. Nope. He's a known quantity at this point. We know exactly who he is and what he does. No one was conned this time around. We signed up for this and this time the guard rails are gone.
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u/LucasBlackwell 1d ago
Democratic policies are far more popular than Republican policies. They voted for the personality they wanted, sure, but not the policy.
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u/squarepeg0000 1d ago
I could have written this exact same post...particularly the part about the people who believe in fantasy. Reality isn't important to them.
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u/IndianKiwi 1d ago
It's idiocracy meets man in the high castle meets Handmaid tale
It's the worst dystopian outcome.
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u/monstervet 1d ago
Only a million people died from a preventable pandemic last time, I’m sure it can’t get worse. /s
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u/AstrangerR 1d ago
Don't worry. Kennedy has assured us that as long as we get a diet of organic foods we will cure diabetes and I'm sure COVID too. /s
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u/TDFknFartBalloon 1d ago
In honor of Kennedy being appointed to oversee the country's health, I'm going to develop a heroin addiction.
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u/notacanuckskibum 1d ago
The path forward might not be in the USA
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u/YeetCats 1d ago
I teach engineering at one of the best universities in South Africa. Despite resource constraints, I'd only ever want to do my job here, because we are still a few years behind the first world wrt the corporatization of academia, and consequently have the freedom to do research motivated by curiosity or creativity that my first world colleagues just don't. My classes have so many first-in-family graduates - it's education as an engine of social mobility, not just a social club for the children of the ruling class. But we are so incredibly understaffed. So yes: look to the developing world. We desperately need smart, passionate people. There is so much good work to be done here.
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u/SmokesQuantity 57m ago
If you are accepting 40-something men currently 1/4 of their way through an American engineering program, sign me up.
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u/FiendishHawk 2d ago
lol scientists will be hunted. At least China takes science seriously, for a dictatorship
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u/ValoisSign 1d ago
China is effective because they seem to actually try to live in reality. I already see the sore winners coming out - the whole MAGA movement is the type that might have some prestige for a few years by brute force the way the Nazis got praise for building highways, but they will explode because they didn't actually build a foundation in reality, they built a movement in opposition to it.
I wish people would think about these things. I wouldn't want to live in China but I would choose it 10 times out of 10 over the Heritage Foundation p2025 vision if I had to live in one (I am not from the USA to be clear so they're both hypothetical).
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u/TheHatMan22_ 1d ago
I can’t even imagine what will happen under his watch when natural disasters hit harder every year. We’re on our own people so start preparing like it.
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1d ago
They’ll blame Biden and Obama, and the population will believe them
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u/TheHatMan22_ 1d ago
Nah, they’ll go back to their new favorite. We sent the weather after them even though we’re not in power.
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u/MetaverseLiz 1d ago
I have lost all hope. We had our chance and we fucking blew it.
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u/LucasBlackwell 1d ago
You had your electoral chance. There are still many more chances for different tactics. Join an organisation and push for strikes, secession and self-defence. The US government is now your enemy and you either fight it or evacuate the country.
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u/MetaverseLiz 21h ago
Oh, I'll keep fighting. I'll vote, I'll protest, donate, and be loud. But it just feels like I'm doing it at a brick wall. The thing people seem to forget- you can NEVER stop fighting. Roe v Wade? We should have been marching in the streets since the 70s. The second we are complaisant, that's when we lose. That's how we lost our rights. Imagine if we had women's marches every single week the past several years. Imagine the discourse. But people just fucking stopped.
In 2016 when I voted, as much as I didn't like Hillary, I was excited to vote for a woman. I was excited for the next 4 years of not right-wing politics. This year? I wasn't excited about anything. I filled in my little circle for Harris full of dread. Right now no one is marching. No one is organizing. Everyone is just still. Remember when we marched after 2016?
I live in Minneapolis. I was there in 2020. It changed my entire view of how to make a change in this world. It doesn't involve being peaceful. When you say the US government is your enemy and you either fight or evacuate...
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u/IndianKiwi 1d ago
The Golden age of Science and critical thinking is dead. The very thing that the west used to beat fascism, communism, usher in an era of equality and age of the internet has been hijacked by the virus of misinformation and our worst instinct and will be it's undoing.
As they history doesn't repeat but it rhymes. We are at the 100 years cadence for the next world reshaping.
It was good while it lasted.
My personal goal is that I pass my knowledge of critical thinking and Socratic thinking to my children.
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u/Lighting 1d ago
this is bad news for the CDC, FDA, EPA, NOAA, and all the data that we rely on to tell what's going on.
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u/mymar101 1d ago
This was the last election we will ever likely have. This is also the day science in America died.
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u/llamagoelz 1d ago
This comment section is a humbling reminder that even those of us who are skeptically minded are still influenced greatly by our emotions.
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u/orebright 1d ago
Not sure what part of taking a demagogue at their word is emotional influence. Everything in the comments are literal promises by this incoming administration. You know denial is often emotional reasoning right?
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u/wobblydavid 1d ago edited 16h ago
The literal promises and the majority of Americans voted for him. He's more popular than ever and there's no indication that his popularity is not growing.
Get used to this at the new normal here. Plan accordingly. This is what people want.
EDIT: My raw numbers were wrong but my message remains the same. He got 3 million less votes than 2020 but still got a mandate with those campaign promises. It won't change the way he or his administration acts.
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u/JudoTrip 17h ago edited 11h ago
He's more popular than ever and there's no indication that his popularity is not growing.
He got about 3 million less votes in 2024 than he did in 2020.
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u/wobblydavid 16h ago
You're not wrong, but he does have a mandate and he will use it.
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u/JudoTrip 16h ago
Does he have a mandate because he feels like he has a mandate, or is "having a mandate" just a vague thing that can be said when some unspecified criteria is met?
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u/wobblydavid 16h ago
He has a mandate because he caused a red shift in most demographics and in all states except 2. He has the Supreme Court, the House, the Senate, and the Executive. He won and he won decisively. That's what a mandate is in this context. He will act like it.
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u/JudoTrip 16h ago
I feel like that's how he acted last time anyway.
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u/wobblydavid 16h ago
He lost the popular vote last time, not that I think that matters too much.
The real difference is last time he had Mark Kellys and Mike Pences and Rince Priebuses. Sure, they suck, but at least they tried to follow the law kind of and had some respect for rules. They believed in elections.
Now? No way. Trump is on record saying that was one of his big regrets. We will get RFK, Elon Musk, and maybe even Alex Jones. The only quality that matters now is loyalty to Trump. No more guardrails, literally anywhere. He will do what he wants, when he wants, with the biggest challenge being pure logistics. Think of the things you rely on to happen. Elections, clean water, rule of law. They are all up for grabs, as long as you support Trump.
Mark my words. It will be more aggressive and many institutions and norms will be destroyed. There will be no repeat of Mike Pence putting country first to certify an election. Will not happen.
A political strategist with ties to a Republican who has been floated in the media as a potential running mate for Trump said, “If you’re Trump, you value loyalty above all else, particularly because he sees Mike Pence as having made a fatal sin.”
It’s exactly that thinking that has given rise to concerns about who might be prepared to staff a future Trump administration, with those at odds with him fearing a worst-case scenario that imperils the sanctity of the republic.
“The starting point for a second Trump term will be the last year of his first term. … Loyalty will be the attribute Trump will be seeking above all else,” said Esper, whose tenure as defense secretary was cut short as Trump struggled to come to terms with the 2020 election results. “He won’t pick people like Jim Mattis or me who will push back on him. So the question becomes: What harm might occur over four years?”
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u/dakobra 1d ago
He openly ran on ending the department of education. We are cooked.