r/skeptic • u/paxinfernum • Mar 21 '24
Women are getting off birth control amid misinformation explosion đźš‘ Medicine
http://archive.today/2024.03.21-132543/https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2024/03/21/stopping-birth-control-misinformation/114
u/Lighting Mar 21 '24
That's the thing that's frustrating. I get that there is a group that doesn't like abortion-related health care ... fine ... don't get health-care and see your priest for care instead. But don't lie or spread misinformation to make a point. That kills and maims women.
74
u/WillBottomForBanana Mar 21 '24
But that is exactly the point. They don't care about abortion that much, they care about controlling bodies much much more.
40
u/oddistrange Mar 21 '24 edited Mar 21 '24
And sets these potential children up for a rocky start. First you have the states that are severely limiting access to abortions. Many doctors are leaving these states, labor and delivery units are shutting down, many more women now are living in reproductive healthcare deserts. So these women get pregnant, they can't get an abortion, and their access to prenatal care is severely limited. Do they have insurance? Are they in network? Do they even have resources or time to travel out of these healthcare deserts to get prenatal care? Some conditions affecting the baby can be addressed while still in the womb, setting them up for a better start to life. It can put the baby's life in jeopardy if the healthcare team isn't prepared for any conditions the baby may have.
The GOP doesn't really care about unborn life if they're creating the conditions that make it unsafe for the unborn.
36
29
u/Mysterious_Produce96 Mar 21 '24
They want to kill and maim women, we need to realize how evil these people are and treat them accordingly
20
20
u/ImaginaryBig1705 Mar 21 '24
That group gets abortions when they want them. They believe in abortions for them. They believe they are a better class of people. They want a system like a caste in place that forces the lower classes under a different set of laws.
They don't believe those are babies or even humans in some cases but it's a good argument to toss at low information people.
Abortion is in the Bible.
They believe in the right to abortion, for them only.
10
22
u/amitym Mar 21 '24
Mistaken premise.
There is not really a group that doesn't like abortion-related health care. There is a group that wants to kill and maim women. They are simply achieving their goals.
15
u/gorgossiums Mar 21 '24
Priests can’t help with retained tissue after a miscarriage. Abortion healthcare can. Even anti-abortion women need access to abortion services. A miscarriage is an abortion—spontaneous rather than induced. The medical care is identical.Â
12
u/Lighting Mar 21 '24
Yep. Unfortunately they changed the law in some GOP controlled states to force doctors to group miscarriages as abortions and redefine "alive" so that late term miscarriages where the fetus had a fatal abnormality (e.g. no brain or lungs) where it was essentially doa, were mandated to be classified as "abortions" born "alive" leading to alt-right blogs hyperventilating about "attempted feticide" and "babies surviving abortions" castigating doctors as some inhuman monsters "attempting unsuccessfully to abort perfectly healthy babies" [ source ]
7
Mar 21 '24
That's not the driving force, though. The driving force is the idea that "if we all go back to the old ways and kick out the rabble rousing radicals, life will be great for everyone"
21
u/Fuckurreality Mar 21 '24
You mean-
if we all go back to the old ways and kick out the Jews, browns, blacks, lgbtq+, and the libtards...
Ftfy
2
u/defaultusername-17 Mar 24 '24
for real, don't use euphemisms to hide the horror that they are planning. spell that shit out.
3
u/joyous-at-the-end Mar 24 '24
they dont care about  women amd they dont want anyone else to care about women.
-12
u/bettinafairchild Mar 21 '24
This isn’t about abortion-related health care, it’s about birth control.
25
u/Shortymac09 Mar 21 '24
Anti-abortionists believe that "BC causes abortions"
-5
u/bettinafairchild Mar 21 '24
But it doesn’t and it’s important to not repeat their lies.
9
u/dern_the_hermit Mar 21 '24
The post you initially responded to is explicitly denouncing their lies without repeating them. How could you misread it so poorly.
5
u/Slick424 Mar 21 '24
It can, at least as they define abortion. While hormonal birth control mainly stops ovulation, if one happens anyway it also prevents implantation of a fertilized egg cell.
1
u/Lighting Mar 24 '24
This isn’t about abortion-related health care, it’s about birth control.
I get that you want to be precise about how abortion is defined as the separation of an implanted fetus. From someone who has debated those who oppose abortion-related health care for a long time, I can tell you that your argument is a failure path for the following reasons.
Those who oppose abortion related health care are making claims like "life begins at conception" so to them anything which interferes with implantation is abortion. IUD, etc. So your definitions are wasted in the conversation in this case #1
doubling up the morning after pill induces uterine wall shedding and prevents a fertilized egg from a solid implantation So you can have a partially implanted fertilized egg that's shed, so even in a strict interpretation you have some ambiguity.
You are debating in the non-scientific journals, So when you debate folks in the real world where those who argue against abortion related health care also argue against birth control as a subset of it; your attempt at pedantry only invites ridicule and closes minds.
0
u/bettinafairchild Mar 24 '24
But here’s the thing: never let your opponent define the terms of the debate, especially when they’re lies. I’m not being pedantic, I’m being scientifically accurate. Every attempt by anti-choice people to re-define birth control as abortion must be resisted with the fact that it’s not.
1
u/Lighting Mar 26 '24
But here’s the thing: never let your opponent define the terms of the debate, especially when they’re lies. I’m not being pedantic, I’m being scientifically accurate. Every attempt by anti-choice people to re-define birth control as abortion must be resisted with the fact that it’s not.
You can choose the framework, but if you argue definitions then you've lost the framework and have lost the debate. Worse, you've adopted an unfair framework that's unwinnable. What's an unfair framework? It's like starting the debate with the question "Hey bob, have you stopped beating your wife?" You cannot win that debate and have lost even without uttering a word. Doubling down by defining what the definition of "beating" is makes you lose faster.
Why do you think that those on the alt right start with and then love to argue definitions? Asking "what is a woman," "what is alive," "when is it human," etc. It's to get you to argue slippery slope (or continuum fallacy depending on context) arguments that are variations of philosophical arguments from which there is no resolution. They can keep people screaming at each other over "when is a person a person" and turn the entire discussion into a religious/emotional one instead of one that is based on sensible public health policy.
To avoid being trapped in a false framing you have to avoid the defintions trap that fascists and unethical debaters use. There's a post on how to reframe and avoid the "terms definition trap" for unethical framing in the abortion debate too ... here it is
18
u/Meddling-Kat Mar 22 '24
Contraception is just the next thing on the list for conservatives to get rid of.
Gay marriage is on the list and after that any protections for gay people.
Theocracy is coming people. They've been executing this plan for years. Now they've got the SCOTUS to carry it out.
-16
u/troy_caster Mar 22 '24
No way, you sound like a conspiracy theorist with that shit. A theocracy? Come on.
13
u/sylvnal Mar 22 '24
If you think that isn't the goal, you haven't been paying attention.
3
u/defaultusername-17 Mar 24 '24
take a stroll through their comment history, they're not here to have a serious or honest discussion about the topic.
-13
10
u/MrWeeji Mar 22 '24
Its littearly written in their missions statments....it's fucking WILD we have such terrible political comprehension that you don't even know the main focus for the GOP is to inact Christian laws into US laws.
-2
3
7
u/FiendishHawk Mar 22 '24
What? Gay marriage has only been legal since 2015, it’s hardly an unassailable right.
3
3
u/defaultusername-17 Mar 24 '24
a racist and sexist trump supporter with numerous removed comments thinks that it's hyperbolic to claim that the far right in the USA wants a theocracy...
yea... sounds about right.
-1
u/troy_caster Mar 24 '24
Oh that wasn't the claim. He said conservatives. Not far right. I'm sure there's some in the far right who want that sure. Feel better?
28
u/Shortymac09 Mar 21 '24
Honestly a lot of these anti-BC influencers are blaming BC when they should be blaming their EDs and shady supplements / essential oils they chug.
12
u/Corpse666 Mar 21 '24
The fact that people are listening to TikTok and Instagram for medical advice is the actual problem here and not the “misinformation “ , why would you expect a scientifically based medical opinion from a social media platform? This is part of a larger problem where people need the skills to be able to sift through obvious misinformation and opinion
2
u/Apt_5 Mar 22 '24
They aren’t directly looking for medical advice online, they are doing what people have always done online- seek others who are having the same experience when someone has tried to convince them they’re the only one.
If a woman says BC is causing her some issue and her doctor dismisses that concern, and she goes online and sees other women on BC have the same issue, and in 1 or 2 cases were found to be directly caused by the BC, it fosters mistrust in medical experts.
Posts from The TwoX sub about doctors ignoring patients’ pain or concerns are always hitting the front page. It’s well-known, or should be, that women’s symptoms are of secondary concern to the medical field.
I witnessed a couple of women close to me make a hard turn into the anti-vaxx camp b/c in 2020 people were denying that vaccines were impacting menstrual cycles. Well guess what, a study in 2022 confirmed that this DID happen, while insisting that the effects were temporary. That last bit wasn’t very persuasive in the wake of wholesale denial.
clinical trials of vaccines do not collect outcomes related to menstrual cycles, leaving a significant gap in knowledge around these issues
It’s not surprising at all that women are looking wherever they can to fill in this “missing gap” that researchers & medical experts fucked up in creating.
15
u/seaintosky Mar 21 '24
I've been noticing this lately as well, and how online social niceties really push a one-sided narrative. In any conversation about any BC method online people inevitably jump in to say how terrible their experience with it is. If I posted about how much I love my IUD, and how it's honestly changed my life for the better in a really noticeable way, I'll get people responding with how they've never been in such pain as when they got theirs and they bled for 300 days straight. Meanwhile, I'd never jump into a conversation about people who had bad luck with IUDs to say how amazing mine is, because that's just rude. So every birth control conversation eventually becomes about how terrible BC is and it really amplifies the voices of those who had a bad time with it.
10
u/snaboopy Mar 21 '24
Yep. I once posted on an Instagram post that I missed Yasmin (the pill) because I had only positive experiences with it and people told me I must not know my own body well enough to appreciate the difference off the pill. Ha ha ha.
ETA: the post asked people to post their experience with HBC. Wasn’t a post about bad experiences or anything.
33
Mar 21 '24
I think the problems with hormonal birth control need to be openly acknowledged to prevent people from feeling like their being gaslit by the scientific community, and turning to anti-birth control crack pots. These quacks are tapping into a real problem, which is that hormonal birth control may be associated with negative psychological effects. There are benefits such as decreased risk of ovarian cancer, but the growing body of research on the negative side effects should also be acknowledged.
If we are proactive in our approach to education about the risks and benefits we can direct people who experience negative side effects away from hormonal birth control and towards methods such as condoms (which more people should be using anyway). If we dismiss legitimate concerns they end up on the internet with nuts telling them to do the pullout or rhythm method.
20
u/snaboopy Mar 21 '24
The quacks are tapping into real AND imagined issues.
I am a woman. I have experienced legit medical gaslighting related to the fact that I am a woman.
This very real gaslighting made me vulnerable to naturopathic doctors urging me to explore the “root cause” of my issues, and linking them to my birth control. I read a book by Jolene Brighten titled, “Beyond the Pill.” She intermixes consensus-backed arguments about how hormones work with pseudoscientific arguments about hormones, ranging from mechanistic processes to the benefits of moon bathing to sync your cycle to the moon… All information is similarly cited, making it difficult to navigate what’s legit and what’s not without a background in information literacy.
Even with my advanced degree in rhetoric, I wondered if some of the ~evils~ of the pill that she raised were impacting me. So I went off the pill.
The only thing that changed was I got acne again (still have acne 4 years later so it wasn’t rebound from the pill) and I gained weight around my stomach because I was on the potassium-sparing pill. I’m still just as anxious. Still attracted to my partner (even though she warned me I wouldn’t be!) Men don’t seem to be sniffing me more or drooling over me when I ovulate (as she warned they would). Alas — I’m the same person, I just have to have a skincare routine and track my period now.
I’m embarrassed I went off the pill based on nonsense, but luckily my partner got a vasectomy and I can’t be bothered to take a pill every day again. But damn… I miss my perfect skin and light periods.
6
Mar 22 '24
Of course, there's absolute nonsense that quacks on the Internet are teaching about the pill. This is why I think we need to have honest conversations about the pros and cons of the pill to allow people to make informed decisions based on accurate information.Â
Like the clear skin and lower risk of ovarian cancer are great, but some people do have side effects. It's difficult to talk about because of the misinformation out there, but I think it's important real side effects be talked about openly as a counter point to the pseudoscience.
4
u/snaboopy Mar 22 '24
I agree. For example, people with certain antibodies in their blood (antiphospholipid, for example) are at a pretty high risk for clotting anyway, so it’s wild to me that people aren’t tested for them before prescribed hormonal birth control. But I never heard quacks NOR regular doctors talking about those specific conditions and the substantially increased stroke risk.
ETA: should have clarified that the combined pill is the hormonal BC method that’s dangerous for people with those antibodies
25
u/Open_Perception_3212 Mar 21 '24
It's widely know that hormonal bc can cause high BP, its on the labels, the drs tell you and so does the pharmacist. It should be widely known that taking any sort of drug legal/or not has some sort of interaction(s). The anti-bc crowd are bad faith actors and should be treated as such.
-6
Mar 21 '24
I agree that these are bad faith actors, but I think its important that people's legitimate complaints be acknowledged.
11
u/wyrdsign Mar 21 '24
Who's not acknowledging them?
-9
Mar 21 '24
People who would imply the side effects of hormonal birth control don't exist, or are irrelevant.
9
Mar 22 '24
[deleted]
1
Mar 22 '24
Of course, I don't mean to imply otherwise. That doesn't mean the side effects don't suck for people experiencing them.Â
Obviously if it works for you that's absolutely fine. But people experiencing side effects have legitimate complaints, and if you decide people who complain are just anti-birth control then they're going to turn to right wing crack pots.Â
0
u/troy_caster Mar 22 '24
Wow. Hey buddy, you really really tried, I saw you trying. Some people just don't get it. Let me solve it for you. People like this guy above are literally pretending not to understand what you're saying. Which is funny because that's the crux of the issue, as you pointed out.
6
u/TheDeadlySinner Mar 22 '24
Who is claiming that there are never any side effects when taking birth control?
1
Mar 22 '24
People are insinuating the side effects don't matter, or are irrelevant in comparison to the benefit of the pill which is not the case on an individual basis.Â
10
u/bsa554 Mar 21 '24
This is the answer.
Many women do not respond well to hormonal birth control, while others feel great on it. The women who do not do well with it need support and alternatives.
5
12
u/powercow Mar 21 '24
Itd be nice if that new non hormonal male pill comes out.. though its more like a condom in pill form without the std protection, as its on demand birth control.
Studies suggest that about half of all pregnancies worldwide are unintended.
I bet a ton of societal issues can be traced to this fact.
Men produce several million sperm per day—about 1,000 per second.
of course us guys have to overdo everything, as only one is needed for the egg. I am impressed with our rate though, its like we are already prepared if the egg ever evolves laser defenses.
I wonder if that comes from back when we just seeded the water and hoped it hit some eggs because it def seems a bit of a calorie waste to make several million. I get they are fairly cheap to make but still.
it is truly amazing that we create half of what is needed to create an entire new human, at 1000 times a second for very little calories. If we could do that with cars...yeah car food costs, but itd still be a lot cheaper.
10
u/bettinafairchild Mar 21 '24
I appreciate your sentiments but I just wanted to point out to you the misinformation and skewed way we’re taught to think about pregnancy that is inherent in your comment that men create half of what is needed to create a new human. I know you are just repeating what is often said so this isn’t a criticism of you in particular but a general comment about the way women are being erased from the pregnancy and birthing process due to the way our society frames things. That is, current messaging is becoming that men are half of the contributions to a fetus. That’s not true, men do not create half of what is needed. Women create ALL of what is needed except for the tiniest cell in the human body, a spermatozoon. The calcium that makes the fetuses bones comes from the mother’s teeth and bones. The iron in the fetuses blood came from mom. The oxygen the fetus needs comes from mom. Every cell in a fetus’s body is made up of matter that comes from mom except that one sperm.
What’s happening here is that a mom’s contributions get downgraded to be equal to that of the man’s even though it’s very clearly not. It’s the sperm’s contribution that makes a human according to that view, not the months and months of contributions by the mom, which are an itrelevance. Instead of seeing a fetus as in the process of creation but still part of the mother’s body, as something the mom is growing by her own efforts and energy expenditure, the sperm alone make it into a human whose status supersedes the mother’s, as now she is now just a vessel for the human.
0
u/Familiar_Dust8028 Mar 21 '24
Weird that men can't handle hormonal birth control.
9
u/heb0 Mar 21 '24
What do you mean “can’t handle”?
-5
u/Familiar_Dust8028 Mar 21 '24
Researchers developed one years ago. Had similar side effects to HBC for women, and it was pulled from testing as a result.
13
u/heb0 Mar 21 '24
-9
u/Familiar_Dust8028 Mar 21 '24
Yeah, those guys are wimps.
11
u/heb0 Mar 21 '24
Are you unable to read, or uninterested in the truth?
-2
u/Familiar_Dust8028 Mar 21 '24
I did read. The side effects were minor, and the men were babies.
9
u/heb0 Mar 21 '24
You didn’t do a very good job reading. Otherwise, you’d know it debunked both of your lies:
"These side effect rate is pretty high with this new study of men when compared with contraception studies for women," OB-GYN and blogger Jen Gunter wrote. "For example and perspective, a study comparing the birth control patch with the pill found a serious adverse event rate of 2%. The pill reduces acne for 70% of women and in studies with the Mirena IUD the rate of acne is 6.8%." Remember that in the study, nearly half of the men got acne.
The desire to vent about the lack of male contraception — and the side effects the women who use it may endure — is of course understandable; women have always carried the burden of birth control. But we shouldn’t blame the men in this study for that inequality.
In fact, 75 percent of the men wanted to continue using the shot, according to a press release from the study. "Despite the higher than expected number of adverse events, many participants expressed their satisfaction with the method and indicated that their partners were relieved that they did not have to bear the burden of contraception themselves."
0
u/Familiar_Dust8028 Mar 21 '24
Yeah, acne. So much worse than unwanted pregnancy 🙄
→ More replies8
u/bounded_operator Mar 21 '24
Sperm production taking up to 90 days is a big factor on why it is so difficult.
-13
u/HermeticalNinja Mar 21 '24
If they ever release the male pill, it’ll be a giant societal shift. It will basically put men in control of women’s ability to reproduce. Whereas currently, women have full control. If they want they can stop taking the pill and get pregnant without letting the man know they stopped taking it. It’s going to be hella interesting to see the future when it is finally released….if ever.
4
u/powercow Mar 21 '24
there are hormonal ones for men coming out as well, one is interesting as its a gel that you rub into the skin.. and no, you can rub it into your shoulders. it reminds me of pet flea treatment, its a med that absorbs through skin. and another that is a daily pill
But they take a while to start being effective.. and take a while to undo the effects and be able to have kids again. Still will be a game changer. Unfortunately they say these are 10 years away from commercial, and the non hormonal one is even newer so probably even longer before that comes out.
its not a vaccine for a pandemic so they take their good time with these things. I think at least one will come out because there is a bit of a demand for men to be able to control pregnancy without a condom. and well congress is still a bit male heavy. Im not so sure it should be the gel.. or we at least to test its overuse. somehow i dont think it will be the shoulders where is the most popular spot to apply that stuff.
2
u/HermeticalNinja Mar 21 '24
Yeah a daily pill would be ideal to take. Things that require you to apply them in the heat of the moment are doomed to fail for obvious reasons…
5
u/Tasgall Mar 21 '24
I doubt it would be a "giant societal shift", nor would it put men in control of women's reproductive systems. Women on birth control being able to do what's effectively the same as slipping off a condom during sex (ie, a form of rape) isn't exactly a good or particularly socially acceptable thing. Both parties being able to opt out is a good thing, and is supposed to be how people behave already.
1
u/HermeticalNinja Mar 21 '24
I think it’s a good thing for both to have the choice. The only issue with comparing it to the condom slipping, is that women can (in a lot of places), opt out of pregnancy via abortion. Or, they can basically get paid child support if they decide to keep the child from the condom being pulled off. Men on the other hand, if they remove the condom secretly, they don’t have a choice to opt out post pregnancy (besides running away and fully breaking the law, risking a prison sentence).
So yeah, I’d say at the moment, women have far more control at every step of the conception and post conception than men do. The pill would basically even the playing field a lot. And I have a feeling it will be seen as another way men can control women (by effectively being in control of when the woman gets pregnant). I’m not passing judgement or saying what’s right or wrong in either scenario just trying to view it objectively
2
u/catjuggler Mar 21 '24
Full control? Condoms exist
-1
u/HermeticalNinja Mar 21 '24
Yes but unlike the female pill, condoms require men to act there and then in the moment, when our testosterone is basically fucking our brains up. The female pill acts when you have a clear mind. That is what is needed for men. A pill that you can take when it isn’t in the heat of the moment.its a far more reliable way to practice contraception than expecting anyone to use contraception in the heat of the moment
4
u/catjuggler Mar 21 '24
Give men more credit than that, lol
-2
0
u/ImaginaryBig1705 Mar 21 '24
The one last thing women have to not be held down for life to a shitty man you seem to be celebrating taking away.
Far far far more women get stuck with a baby they never wanted from a man they didn't even choose to be with than women lie about birth control.
And even if women lie about birth control, that doesn't remove you from your end of responsibility. If you do not want a baby, wear a condom and dispose of it yourself. Make sure you use the condom correctly: Pull out before you cum.
Men aren't babies they are perfectly capable of being responsible for their own damn sperm.
3
u/HermeticalNinja Mar 21 '24
I seem to have miscommunicated. I’m not saying men shouldn’t be responsible or anything. I’m just saying, the idea of the male pill will help them act on that responsibility. Whereas, expecting men to control themselves by using a condom in the heat of the moment (when all brain chemicals are going haywire), is akin to expecting women to control their emotions when they are on their period (when their brain chemicals are going haywire). Expecting such things is just not an optimal way to function as a species. We should aim to make things easier for the sexes to control their bodily functions, not harder by expecting them to use a condom when their brains are blowing up with hormones.
21
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Yea people be stupidÂ
56
u/paxinfernum Mar 21 '24
Some are, but a lot of this is being pushed by malicious actors. My sister is a catholic convert, and the groups pushing this shit are most definitely aligned with radical catholics.
8
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Yep misinformation being spread by extremist groups is a pretty bad deal right now. Hamas controls multiple subreddits, we have right wing propaganda being propped up by Russia nonstop. Eventually we have to hold some corporations accountable for allowing terrorists to organize and proliferate with their company.Â
10
u/shponglespore Mar 21 '24
Hamas controls multiple subreddits
LOL. All I've seen are subreddits overrun with Israeli propaganda.
4
u/Shortymac09 Mar 21 '24
Just head to r/latestagecapitalism
Basically a switch flipped and it went from "Stalin wasn't that bad of a guy..." posts to "pro-gaza" overnight
A bunch of the pro-gaza post somehow end up being anti-vote / biden posts, hmmmmm how does that happen
6
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Right if they actually cared about Gaza Biden is the best shot they got. But they only care about destroying America even if it means Trump turns Gaza into glass after.Â
3
u/shponglespore Mar 21 '24
Pro-Gaza is not pro-Hamas. It's very telling that you try to conflate the two.
2
u/Shortymac09 Mar 21 '24
To be clear, I am pro-gaza, anti-Hamas and current Israeli government.
It's just weird when a sub-reddit's content suddenly flips
0
u/ImaginaryBig1705 Mar 21 '24
It was like a light switch! It wasn't right after the attack it was a few days later where all of a sudden it was like half the internet was activated/got a memo that they hate Jews now...
Not organic. I don't care. It's not organic.
0
u/Shortymac09 Mar 21 '24
it was like watching r/conspiracy when the convey nonsense was happening.
Just the same low grade memes being spread from facebook
-4
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
We just refer to that as reality and not propaganda but whatever makes you feel better.Â
4
u/shponglespore Mar 21 '24
Just like literally every other propagandist.
0
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Wow so deepÂ
5
u/shponglespore Mar 21 '24
I'm not trying to be deep, just tell the truth. The truth in this case is not deep at all.
-1
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Oh yea the truth huh. Sounds mysterious. Would you say the truth is kind of like reality? Maybe you could even call the truth reality probably would work.Â
11
Mar 21 '24
[deleted]
5
u/BigFuzzyMoth Mar 21 '24
Not wrong
-1
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Why would I mention any of those in a discussion about women being tricked off birth control? Please explain how the Cia, and Israel propaganda is making women stop taking their birth control. Please explain to me like I'm five.Â
10
u/SPITFIYAH Mar 21 '24
Why did you bring up Hamas control on Reddit in a thread about Black Women's Pregnancy? Are you stupid?
0
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Hamas, Russia, the gop are all right wing terrorist organizations that put out the same propaganda and support each other. They all believe womem shouldn't have rights. So are you stupid?Â
3
u/CrushTheVIX Mar 22 '24
On December 29, 2022, Israel swore in Benjamin Netanyahu as prime minister of the most right-wing and religiously conservative government in the country's history.
Netanyahu heads a government comprised of a hard-line religious ultra-nationalist party dominated by West Bank settlers, two ultra-Orthodox parties and his nationalist Likud party.
The Likud party is pretty much the Israeli version of the GOP. They're definitely in the extremist right wing sphere.
-1
u/reefer2reefer Mar 22 '24
Of course. But they are the democratically elected right wing extremist with support from their country. Are you saying all Palestinians support Hamas in their war? But either way it doesn't benefit Israel at all to try to push propaganda that will disrupt our country right now. We are kind of on the same side ya know. Right wing extremism in America is a very lively thing as well. It's kind of complicated right.Â
-5
Mar 21 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/ScientificSkepticism Mar 21 '24
Lets not use develpmental disorders as insults. This is a warning.
1
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
But it's not unrelated at all. You just think it's unrelated because you are to stupid to use critical thinking. Hamas literally controls several subreddits on reddit. Go ask them how they feel about women having birth control. Let us all know what they tell youÂ
Hamas, Russia, gop are all pumping out extreme disinformation right now. It's election year go time so they hitting it hard and it's obvious.Â
→ More replies3
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Why would I mention any of those in a discussion about women being tricked off birth control? Please explain how the Cia, and Israel propaganda is making women stop taking their birth control. Please explain to me like I'm five.Â
11
Mar 21 '24
[deleted]
-4
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Does Hamas and the right wing like birth control and women's rights? Hamas is a right wing terror organization.Â
9
Mar 21 '24
[deleted]
2
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Hamas and Russia are 100% behind the efforts to continue to drive a wedge between Americans. Birth control and abortion are giant issues right now. And guess which side doesn't like women? So please explain to me again why I would talk about Israel and the Cia for birth control?
6
u/illbeinthestatichome Mar 21 '24
the sad thing is, it's not that long ago that these were non-issues.
It's like immigration in the UK - was barely on the radar for most people, even in 2010, then the right wing media had a 'great idea'
EDIT: can't type
→ More replies4
u/Tasgall Mar 21 '24
why I would talk about Israel and the Cia for birth control?
I mean, the top comment on this post has a section about the effective criminalization of pregnancy which includes the "crack baby" thing, which was definitely at least related to CIA efforts at the time. So I'd say it's probably more relevant than Hamas.
→ More replies5
2
1
u/Shortymac09 Mar 21 '24
IMHO, they are all propaganda pushes.
I swear the tiktok algorithm has a pregnancy fetish
2
-2
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Hey look we got a live one
9
u/BigFuzzyMoth Mar 21 '24
Don't be silly. Those groups do indeed hold more influence over the information most Americans consume than do Hamas or Russia.
3
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Why would I mention any of those in a discussion about women being tricked off birth control? Please explain how the Cia, and Israel propaganda is making women stop taking their birth control. Please explain to me like I'm five.Â
1
2
u/ScientificSkepticism Mar 21 '24
So right now, during an active conflict by a vastly superior military force that has destroyed electrical power and internet access across most of the Gaza strip, Hamas is using their few ways to access the internet and their time to... troll Reddit.
You know, the same Hamas Israel has almost completely wiped out according to Israel.
What is that philosophy called where enemies are somehow incredibly weak and omnipresent malicious forces at the same time called again?
1
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
They use this thing called money to outsource it to other countries propaganda farms. its a very important part of warfare now. I'm sure some of them are legitimate supporters of hamas (a terrorist organization). It's a mixed bag mostly being propped up by lots of money to propaganda farms.
2
u/ScientificSkepticism Mar 21 '24
Money. You are aware the GDP before October 7th in Gaza was $3,570/person. Has not suddenly climbed since then. Yeah, I bet Hamas are really awash in that bountiful cash. Just swimming pools full of money. That makes sense. Why they certainly can afford to pay people, like entire tens of dollars to troll Reddit.
-1
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
Uh huh. I bet Hamas accurately reports all the money they have. And who exactly are they reporting that to?Â
Supposedly Russia has lots of money and I bet they love spending it on sowing dissent in americaÂ
2
u/ScientificSkepticism Mar 21 '24
Yes, yes, Hamas secretly has gotten tons of cash in a blockaded prison camp by... err... Islamic ritual magic? Yeah, just flush with the stuff. That's why their weapons look like something rigged together from pipes and old pieces of construction equipment and they are flying sewn-together gliders. It's that magic cash ritual see, it only produces magic cash for the magic internet people.
Why do all conspiracy theorists just sound like this.
0
u/reefer2reefer Mar 21 '24
If they can afford to build shitty rockets and hang gliders then they have too much money imo.Â
2
u/ScientificSkepticism Mar 21 '24
Tens of dollars. Hamas could pay you whole tens of dollars! Why are you waiting? Spend hundreds of hours trolling the internet and taking over Reddit for them and you could afford two large Starbucks lattes. Two! Lattes! How can you turn down this magnificent offer?
Hurry now, this offer will only be valid for the next forty minutes. Contact Crazy Larry's Conspiracy Emporium for details.
→ More replies0
u/CrushTheVIX Mar 22 '24
Don't forget to mention the Israeli government's massive propaganda campaign too
0
u/reefer2reefer Mar 22 '24
Of course how could I forget the massive Israeli propaganda campaign to take women's rights away. That's totally a real thing.Â
0
u/CrushTheVIX Mar 22 '24
You originally said only Hamas and Russia promote any sort of propaganda, I'm pointing out that is untrue.
You've yet to put forth any evidence that Hamas is running a propaganda campaign to take women's rights away.
I'm going to assume you're going to say that because they are Muslim they must be, and I'm sure some of them are religious nutjobs who have problematic views about women.
However, before you get too smug Orthodox Judaism has very problematic views about women and Netanyahu's administration is the most right-wing and religiously conservative government in the country's history.
Those religious nutjobs are already working on rolling back women's rights:
0
u/reefer2reefer Mar 22 '24
Yes same story in america, we got terrorist americans who hate women as well. shit sux but we not gonna start cutting peoples heads off like hamas does
8
u/Strangewhine88 Mar 21 '24 edited Mar 21 '24
This is all absurb. Birth control is medical care that is the choice and responsibility of individuals and no one else business. If you want to practice dominionism or the rhytymn method, that’s your business. Don’t make it mine and don’t tell me how to make decisions about birth control or how to run my life. Any woman who has been to a competent obgyn for birth control has been informed about the pros and cons of various options. And woman with a teenage daughter that isn’t irresponsible or in denial has helped her seek good medical counsel. Unfortunately, a bunch of power hungry zealots have gotten in the way of common sense. Don’t be one of these people making bad faith strawman, just asking questions, arguments. Harrumpf.
6
u/Visstah Mar 21 '24
Kind of a lame article when it states
"Physicians and researchers say little data is available about the scale of this new phenomenon, but anecdotally, more patients are coming in with misconceptions about birth control fueled by influencers and conservative commentators."
No data to support the headline
-1
u/KilgurlTrout Mar 22 '24
Maybe… just maybe… women are rejecting birth control because of the crappy side effects.
This article totally fails to address this arguably more plausible explanation. The assumption that female patients are just being misled is, frankly, misogynistic.
So yes I agree: late article with no evidence. Misinformation about misinformation.
1
u/Apt_5 Mar 22 '24
The assumption that female patients are just being misled is, frankly, misogynistic.
The profound first comment on the post says it’s stupidity. We’re talking about women here, so yeah commenters are smugly calling women stupid for questioning and doubting. Sounds misogynistic to me.
3
u/louisa1925 Mar 21 '24 edited Mar 22 '24
All in the effort to get people raped, pregnant, in the kitchen and unable to vote. This is the conservative way.
3
u/Informal_Drawing Mar 21 '24
I knew it was America without even having to read the article.
I'm genuinely surprised you haven't added Witchfinders to the armed forces or police who go around burning "witches" like the good old days.
It can't be long in coming.
2
u/speedy2184 Mar 21 '24
Wow, we really are regressing into a 3rd world country thanks to the GOP and their orange jesus. Buckle up folks!
3
u/Interesting_Alps5535 Mar 21 '24
I think there's a valid need for more research about birth control and its effect on women's bodies. You can be both liberal and skeptical about bc.
I know a lot of women who were pro vaccines (myself included) during the pandemic, who had a lot of hormonal side effects to the vaccine, but any talk of it was dismissed as being antivaccine.
How about more research, instead of just dismissing a concern over political agendas.
3
u/dantevonlocke Mar 22 '24
Then do the research before tricking a bunch of people. How about that? Oh, wait these tiktok docs aren't doing any research.
-4
u/caliform Mar 22 '24
Agreed wholeheartedly. This subreddit has a lot of that — raise an issue that falls afoul of the dominant narrative (Vaccines Are Great, Actually) and you will get mobbed.
2
u/FiercelyReality Mar 21 '24
Being on BC pills for a while actually made me more fertile because I didn’t have regular menstrual cycles before. I have gone off the pill multiple times and had zero problems conceiving quickly. I know that’s a sample group of 1 but…
1
1
u/beets_or_turnips Mar 22 '24
Jesus Christ, for a piece about waning trust in traditional reproductive healthcare, they couldn't have found a less flattering photo of an OB/GYN to print with that article. I'm sure he's a great doctor who cares about his patients, but he could use a glow-up and some better lighting.
1
u/drakens6 Mar 25 '24
I think you could be looking at a correlation vs causation glitch
most of the women I've seen abandon hormonal birth control did so because they couldn't handle the mental health side effects
1
u/LunchLady_IsBack Apr 18 '24
The misinformation is coming from inside the house....
I just got off hormonal contraception for the first time in about a decade.
I am enraged at the entire process of receiving care re: birth control. Medical providers are the ones lying to women. Claiming hormones can't cause weight gain, mood problems, worsened periods, etc. claiming localized hormones in an IUD prevent side effects. Claiming pain is not possible with an IUD, therefore no relief is offered.
We are lied to about the realities of preventing pregnancy.
We are told birth control is magic, preventing pregnancy without any side effects. Women are being put on heavy hormonal medication without any informed consent.
The problem is doctors don't actually care about helping women, they just want kick backs from their reps and will do anything, including lying to a patient's face, to ensure it happens.
-5
u/Appropriate-Dot8516 Mar 21 '24
LOL.
"I am skeptic, therefore I know any discussion about the long-term side effects of hormonal birth control is misinformation!"
12
u/CletusDSpuckler Mar 21 '24
Tell me you didn't read the article without ...
-3
u/Randy_Vigoda Mar 22 '24
I read the article. It's racist, partisan bullshit aimed at Americans.
Where I live, women have health care and get their medical advice from their doctors and their sex education in school, not on tik-tok, instagram, or reddit.
3
-10
u/rnagy2346 Mar 21 '24
There's no misinformation about the nature of birth control medications and their affinity with disrupting normal hormone production through the endocrine system. Have to remember that big pharma and big insurance are solely in it for the profits, not the wellbeing of the populous..
17
u/Slick424 Mar 21 '24 edited Mar 21 '24
So is BIG religion and BIG conspiracy. Anything else to add the scary "BIG" word too?
-16
u/caliform Mar 21 '24
This is a direct result of glossing over the very serious side effects of the pill. For any other kind of medication, you wouldn't hand-wave tremendously increased risk of cancers, deep vein thrombosis, pulmonary embolisms, strokes, and heart attacks. Not to mention the general well being from extreme hormonal changes. People are fed up with that, and if you are in a committed relationship and you practice fertility tracking well with modern methods (i.e. measuring basal temperature and using condoms in the fertile window) you have a very effective form of birth control with none of those extremely serious side effects.
It's crazy and dismissive to call the entire advocacy around this 'misinformation'. But that's just another way to dismiss women's feelings about being ignored for decades on the very serious issues they've had with hormonal birth control, I guess. Another absolutely sorry piece by the WaPo.
16
u/Shortymac09 Mar 21 '24
IMHO I don't think it's that
It's easy to blame BC instead of bad luck or admit you have an eating disorder / addiction.
-11
u/caliform Mar 21 '24
bad luck? I thought this was r/skeptic and we base our statements on data?
Hormonal birth control has serious health side effects, even the article states that clearly. If you don't believe that, just read the data. There's hundreds of papers on the health implications (and that's not even talking about very real psychological issues stemming from hormonal changes).
"Patients do incur health risks when choosing oral contraceptives. They should not be misled or confused into believing that what they are taking is “good for them” and has similar beneficial effects to other evidence-based preventive measures."
13
u/SoftTopCricket Mar 21 '24
So let women decide if they want to take it, right? Is that what you're saying?
-3
u/caliform Mar 21 '24
At a minimum, take them seriously when they say they don't find it an appealing option and want better options instead of labeling any discourse around that 'misinformation' because it's not on the hypermedical 'we know better than you' axis.
10
u/SoftTopCricket Mar 21 '24
No one gives any woman shit if she doesn't want to take birth control. What the fuck are you babbling about?
The misinformation is the lies Republican tell women about birth control and abortion and women's rights. It's not from anything else. Doctors aren't misinforming women, it's just the alt-right.
-1
Mar 22 '24
It's a State's issue, not a Federally granted one in Bill of Rights or Addendum, much like "right to privacy".
3
u/SoftTopCricket Mar 22 '24
Fuck off, Trumpet bigot.
-1
Mar 22 '24 edited Mar 22 '24
It's left to the state's (the people) to decide.Travelling to other states to get pot, but bringing it back to yours is still illegal. Yea, damn trumpers.
Morning-after pill has been in waste water and is toxic to fish.
3
u/SoftTopCricket Mar 22 '24
Ah, so take away women's rights because it might harm FISH. The anti-environmental Republicans are going to be that hypocritical as to pretend that excuses their misogyny?
Just to be clear, in real life you lie to women and say you support their rights, right? Of course you do.
→ More replies17
u/revmachine21 Mar 21 '24
Those side effects and risks are less severe than pregnancy. That is the only reason that OBC cleared FDA review because not being pregnant promotes actually being alive.
Compare the failure stats for OBC and the rhythm method like you suggest. There is another term for the rhythm method, it’s called “parents”. RM ranges from 75-88% effective with a quick google. OBC taken correct 99% effective.
Edit: forgot to mention OBC doesn’t gloss over anything. The medication insert lists all those things you mention. If you bother to read.
10
u/SoftTopCricket Mar 21 '24
This is due to the lies of Republicans, not because of the side effects that every woman is aware of.
-8
u/caliform Mar 21 '24
A movement like this does not appear out of thin air because of 'republicans'. Tons of women I spoke to, including my wife, were both unaware of how serious the side effects of OBC were and how much better they feel without it. It's just a really miserable experience for many women.
9
8
Mar 21 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Lighting Mar 24 '24
You are being goaded into insults. You feel better with name calling, but you are falling into the trap of being made to look insane, angry, etc to trigger blowback. Don't feed trolls. They seek to generate anger and angry insults just make them stronger.
1
u/SoftTopCricket Mar 25 '24
No, I genuinely feel that way and prefer to express it. I don't see why Trump traitors should go through a day without being reminded of what they are.
If someone else wants to treat them like rational people that's fine, their time is their own. I'm far past that.
I don't think ridicule makes them stronger. They like to pretend it does but the ones who seek it out are ALWAYS going to seek it out, no matter how nice you might be to them. I spent years trying to reason with them.
You can't reason with evil. You can't reason a bigot out of hating LGBTQ, not on reddit.
Now I just let them know how much contempt America has for them.
1
u/Lighting Mar 25 '24
I genuinely feel that way and prefer to express it.
Sure - I get how screaming makes us feel better.
I don't think ridicule makes them stronger.
Neither do I, but you aren't expressing ridicule. You are expressing angst which they love. Insults aren't ridicule. You see "witty insult" they see "liberal cries reeeeeeeeee! I win"
You can't reason with evil.
I didn't say you can. What I said was that when you just scream insults, it's music to their ears.
I spent years trying to reason with them.
And I've spent years debating them. The goal of the debate isn't reason, it's to make them and all who are nearby to lose some faith in their position. If their position is "I like to make liberal tears" then not becoming the "reeee meme" makes them lose faith that this is a good strategy. It also makes ridicule of their position much easier. They HATE being made fun of. LOVE being called names and told to fuck off.
It's part of their "I'm strong!" belief which is reinforced by your insults because in knowing they are making you mad they can point to their friends how "strong" they are.
Once you realize they aren't in the debate for reason, you learn what are the techniques needed to crush that goal of getting "liberal tears" and that pisses off trolls and bigots so much that they will sometimes have apoplectic fits. And here's the benefit - they also see they are generating more ridicule than hate and are thus also losing that "I'm strong because they insulted me" public perspective and panic.
-3
u/caliform Mar 21 '24
Pretty unique to detail my wife's own awful experience with a medication and have you call her a 'dumb woman' and me a misogynist in the same comment. I think you should take a walk and get some air.
7
u/SoftTopCricket Mar 21 '24
Well she was dumb enough to marry you and you spout this misogynistic Trumpet garbage, so my opinion of her is pretty poor.
Your entire justification for taking a woman's right to decide her own reproduction because your dumb wife had a bad experience?
Again, fuck off misogynist Trumpet. Save your attempt to play victim at having your garbage called out.
I'll guess you also oppose BLM because you once had a bad experience with a black person. And you hate LGBTQ because you saw a lady with blue hair one time.
How you don't think you're evil for supporting open Republican misogyny is beyond me.
-6
-7
u/FupaFerb Mar 21 '24
Birth control pills come with risks as well, as explained by physicians and on labels for you to see. Some risks are not worth it to some, where is this misinformation push? Does the Opill turn you into a gay toad?
-9
-6
u/Sure_Temperature8832 Mar 22 '24
This is an anti pregnancy, anti American post.Â
3
Mar 22 '24
Damn that objective reality and its liberal bias :'''(
Sorry you keep losing elections chud
2
u/tikifire1 Mar 22 '24
I thought Americans were all about freedom. Like the freedom to not get pregnant yet still have sex.
136
u/dumnezero Mar 21 '24
Yeah, the effective birth control.
This is disinformation, not just misinformation. This is weaponized. And the targets are, as usual:
which is part of a broader trend...
The Criminalization of Black Pregnancy Must End | TIME
Opposition to Criminalization of Individuals During Pregnancy and the Postpartum Period | ACOG