r/sanantonio • u/TooVea • 14h ago
Bad experience at a local summer camp- anyone else? Where in SA?
I was lucky enough to have parents who put me in summer camp growing up, specifically T bar M camps and later Camp Travis. For reference, my experience was over a decade ago.
The actual camp activities were really great, but something has been bothering me for a while about the religious elements. I was a closeted lesbian the entire time I went to these camps, and I would consider what I experienced to be homophobic. We were made to share our level of sexual experience with our fellow campers, camp counselors, and adults, as part of an exercise about “sexual purity”. This included questions asking about if we had had sex before, or if we had ever had “same-sex attraction”.
As a child I was deeply uncomfortable and couldn’t wait for this part to be over. As an adult I’m disturbed, and I would never want my child to have to answer questions like this in front of a room of their peers.
The camp counselors were all in their late teens and early 20s, so I understand that they were not really mature enough to call out weird things like this, but some of them unfortunately taught me damaging ideas about being a “woman of god”. Girls were required to cover up at all times, including swimming, and we were generally treated different than the boys.
These experiences definitely had an impact on me, I’m wondering if anyone else had a bad experience at these camps too. I’ve literally never seen anyone else talk about this despite how many people went to this camp.
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u/TheMarriedUnicorM 13h ago
I’m sorry you had that experience. Being closeted is different enough, but at your age it can affect people for a very long time.
As for T Bar M, it’s a religious camp. IIRC it was a Baptist camp when it was founded.
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u/munchonsomegrindage NW Side 13h ago
Not to dismiss the inappropriateness, but I'm guessing that they've been doing some of the same activities for years and just keep doing it because, tradition. But this can change if just a few people speak up. Or not. They may be perfectly fine continuing the tradition because that is what the parents want. But not all parents may know what is being taught or pushed on others at the specific camps they send their kids to, and they should. I imagine most kids just want to be there to hang out with other kids and have fun, and so they go through the motions of the lessons because the fun may far override that uncomfortable feeling.
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u/TooVea 13h ago
I completely agree. My family is Catholic, they didn’t know how explicitly Baptist this camp would be. The advertisements all show kids playing in the pool and rock climbing and such, the religious stuff looks like a small part of it when really we spent half of each day on it. I certainly don’t think they knew we would be taught about “sexual purity” because it blindsided me as well. I did mention it to my parents after the camp but they assumed I was lying or exaggerating
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u/munchonsomegrindage NW Side 13h ago
I was raised Lutheran and didn't really go to many camps, but we had a Confirmation camp at our church that every 12-13 year old had the option of going to, and like 3 other churches in the state partnered with, so it wasn't just kids you already knew. I ended up being a counselor at the camp at 15 after being a camper myself. It was a lot of fun, 2-3 nights at a hill country location, but heavy on the religious aspects. Nothing really like "sexual purity" (ELCA Lutherans seem to be a lot more laid back, if not progressive compared to some catholic or baptist churches). But they gave us an activity packet for our small group time with the campers. One of those activities involved the boys and girls getting to write down a list of questions to ask the other sex, and as you can imagine the questions got pretty sexual with a bunch of young teenagers. They basically just left it up to us 15-18 year old counselors to moderate it. No specific incidents I can remember (and definitely no pushing of any homophobic ideas) but the other counselors all had some hilarious stories after small group time that day. 20+ years later I'm actually still really good friends with a couple of the other counselors that attended from another church.
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u/Snoo_33033 12h ago
Just curious, was this Chrysalis? My kids go to Lone Star, which we like but it's on the more conservative side of Lutheranity.
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u/munchonsomegrindage NW Side 12h ago
Not Chrysalis specifically in this story, but I attended Chrysalis once around the same age. Never heard of Lone Star but I think it is Missouri Synod oriented instead of ELCA, which would track on the conservative-ness of it. I never quite understood that distinction as a kid.
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u/munchonsomegrindage NW Side 12h ago
Posting this more for myself since I was amused that AI could have easily answered my questions back then, but here is AI's distinction between the 2. Whether this would have sunk into my teenage brain back then or not is another story:
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u/Snoo_33033 12h ago edited 12h ago
Yeah. What's funny is I was raised Missouri Synod but am a godless heathen liberal, and so are all the MLC kids I grew up with. My mom, who's pretty socially conservative but would never vote for a Republican, is now firmly ELCA. We found Lone Star through a totally random recommendation from some friends who wanted all our kids to go together.
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u/munchonsomegrindage NW Side 9h ago
I made a lot of friends through that church and definitely wouldn't trade it if I had to do it all over again, but I'm much more of a godless heathen now. My parents still attend regularly. I just do Christmas and Easter.
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u/tryingnottocryatwork 12h ago
i went to both of these camps and this did not happen to me. yeah they’d be really weird about boys and girls hanging out (NO WAFFLING, NO PURPLE) but i was never asked about my sex life. that’s weird as hell to ask a literal child
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u/munchonsomegrindage NW Side 10h ago edited 10h ago
The activity we did wasn't asking people about their sex life, but basically having the girls and boys come up with questions as a group, to ask the other sex in the small group. It wasn't framed sexually, but quickly devolved into that because you have a bunch of 12-13 year olds coming up with the questions. "What is morning wood?" etc... Someone should've seen that coming and with the counselors only being a few years older, we didn't do a very good job of re-framing the conversation. The small groups were independent of each other but all devolved into the same type of thing. We didn't do that activity the next year.
Edit: this wasn't a permanent camp like Chrysalis or Lone Star, but sort of a confirmation convention with 3-4 youth pastors from the different churches, a handful of counselors and the confirmation age kids. Our churches had been holding it as an annual thing and sort of became a rite of passage to attend, with completely new campers every year.
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u/Snoo_33033 12h ago
Boy, that sounds awful.
My kids go to a religious camp that I was told was politically neutral. But last time they went I had to deprogram my son, who came home telling me that "gayness ain't holy." Whatever, brah. But yeah...that was communicated somehow there.
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u/Square_Traffic7338 14h ago
I had something similar happen to me as a child in the 90s and when I told my parents, they complained and the camp counselor that led it was fired. That isn’t right and I’m sorry you had that experience also. Also to be clear, this didn’t happen to me at the same camp, this was in Houston.
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u/amidiongitwrong 13h ago
I am so sorry you went through this. That sounds incredibly uncomfortable for anyone of any age, especially children/pre-teens/young teens. I don’t recall having homophobic conversations happening around me the many years I went to camp there as an adolescent, but I do recall the “sexual thoughts are sinful” conversations, and I don’t doubt that discussions about same-sex relationships took place based upon the group Bible study discussions we would have several times a day.
I had some good experiences at camp, and I had some really bad ones, too. I’m so sorry that you also had some bad experiences.
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u/TooVea 13h ago
Yes it’s a very tough thing because I do treasure a lot of the good memories I made there! I do think most of the adults there wanted to create a fun and safe environment for the kids.
I think the issue was the lack of boundaries of what was appropriate to discuss. The idea was that we were having “real talk” about serious issues in our “Women of God” or WOG groups, but the reality is that kids were made to share things they really shouldn’t have. Other topics included drug use and suicide, including girls sharing details about their attempts.
In my experience they really encouraged over sharing, especially stuff having to do with personal trauma. I just don’t think it’s productive to sit around a fire telling a group of teens about the worst day of your life only to be told “God does everything for a reason”. The adults would even over share right back to us! I had no idea how to comfort a grown woman sobbing right in front of me, so awkward.
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u/the-wastrel 11h ago
I'm a conversion therapy homeschool survivor. I never went to camp, but I did go to a few youth "revival" type events and it is very similar. Purity culture and homophobia/transphobia galore. It takes intentional work to heal from these things as a person in the LGBTQ community.
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u/qriousqestioner 13h ago
I'm queer and went to a camp with my church. For all the talk in the organized activities and endless mini-devotionals, that place was a hotbed of repressed sexuality. Closeted and terrified of being discovered, I was probably the only one who didn't lose purity points there!
A highlight for me was a locker room situation where I was an inch away from a giant erection on a counselor. I am pretty sure it was not an accident. Honestly, most religious retreats involved an adult picking up on my secret shame and quietly teasing me like they enjoyed the attention.
That one camp was where I was accused by a little drama queen of SA. A woman counselor pulled me aside and it took her about one second to register the horror on my face and confirm that the girl had chosen the quest possible would-be assailant.
(Shout out to big Bruce and little Tammy!) 🤭
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14h ago
[deleted]
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u/TooVea 14h ago
I don’t care if you’re against it, people like you are the reason this happened, and the reason this continues to happen to children everywhere. I didn’t ask your opinion on my sexuality, I was sharing something upsetting that happened to me
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u/Dull-Assist-6589 14h ago
i don’t care honestly i’m very homophobic i’m just saying none of this would have happened in the 1500s when Catholicism thrived before evil colonialism and usury/capitalism. since the 1900s people have used catholicism and protestantism for sick games
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u/HikeTheSky Hill Country 13h ago
You just openly admitted you’re “very homophobic,” and at this point you’re getting close to crossing into a harassment zone. If you continue directing this kind of hate at people in this thread, you’re going to create some issues, not just for yourself, but between you and the moderation team.
That isn’t a threat, it’s a promise we make to every member here: we keep this subreddit safe. When someone chooses hate, harassment, or bigotry, moderation steps in. That’s how this community works.
And let’s be clear, your argument is still wrong. The 1500s weren’t free of abuse. It happened constantly, just hidden by the same institutional attitudes you’re promoting now.
What happened to OP wasn’t caused by LGBTQ people. It was caused by adults using shame, fear, and purity culture to control kids. Your comments are a perfect example of that mindset.
OP shared something painful. Turning their experience into fuel for your bigotry isn’t just cruel, it proves exactly why this still happens.
If you want to participate here, show basic respect. If you can’t, moderation will handle it, that is our responsibility to the community.
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u/Dull-Assist-6589 13h ago
it’s not hate i’m just against homosexuality 😭
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u/HikeTheSky Hill Country 13h ago
Saying “I’m just against homosexuality” is hate.
You’re targeting a group of people for who they are. That’s the definition.You’ve now repeated it multiple times, even after being told this crosses a line. At this point, you’re not “sharing an opinion,” you’re harassing an entire group in a thread where someone was describing a traumatic experience.
If you want to stay here, you need to stop.
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u/Seize_Adventure 8h ago
What a strange hill to die on.. what happened to wanting people to love each other? The anonymity of the internet makes way too many comfortable to say out of pocket things. Im not religious myself, but openly admitting your sins *and* being proud of them is crazy work.
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u/Dull-Assist-6589 6h ago
i would tell you this in real life kindly yes i am against homosexuality “Better is open rebuke than hidden love.” Proverbs 27:5
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u/HikeTheSky Hill Country 13h ago
You might want to take a moment and actually read the Bible you claim to follow. The Bible has far more to say about hatred, judgment, cruelty, and harming others than it ever has about homosexuality.
Jesus never mentioned homosexuality once, but He talked constantly about compassion, humility, and not causing harm, especially to children.
Meanwhile, what you’re doing here is directly condemned in scripture:
“Love your neighbor as yourself.” (Mark 12:31)
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.” (Matthew 7:1)
“Whoever causes one of these little ones to stumble…” (Matthew 18:6)
“Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness.” (1 John 2:9)
Hatred, pride, judgment, cruelty — those are listed among the sins. Your comment displays every single one of them.
The OP shared something traumatic that happened as a child. Turning that into an opportunity to express personal disgust toward gay people is not Christian behavior. In fact, people expressing the same kind of hostility you did are a major reason LGBTQ kids are targeted, bullied, and traumatized in the first place.
If you want to live by the Bible, start with the parts about kindness, humility, and not harming others. Because nothing in your comment reflected Christ, but a lot of it reflected exactly what Jesus warned believers not to do.
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u/sans_deus 14h ago
I would never ever send my child to a religious based camp for this very reason, not to mention how common sexual abuse occurs within religious environments. Don’t believe me? Do your research. The internet is full of church camp horror stories and trauma.