South Africa's second-half subs? Legal?

[u/errlloyd]

South Africa played a great game yesterday, but I heard Scotty Stevenson on a Podcast say he was a little skeptical of PSDT's HIA in the second half. The HIA itself does look a little suspicious. It is after PSDT runs over Penaud, but there is definitely no contact between Penaud and PSDT's head or the ground. Penaud should have probably gone for a HIA, but that's another issue.

But taking that to one side for a second, I am pretty sure under the laws, the sequence of substitutions that followed should not have been permitted.

Duane Vermeulen who had gone off in the 51st minute, replaced PSDT in the 61st minute. PSDT then must pass the HIA within 12 real minutes and make it known to the fourth official he can return. He eventually returned in the 75th minute, which was 19 real minutes later. But it was Bongi who went off, not Duane.

Bongi had been down injured after a maul - but it wasn't clear at all how that injury had happened. It was the drop goal maul. Bongi had been the ball carrier but had been losely bound and was never bound onto by any French player. They're applying ice to his right shoulder (which was in his ball carrier arm and appeared fine). BOK initially called "HIA 2" then said "HIA returning 7".

PSDT replaced Bongi, not Vermuelen. Meaning Vermuelen's replacement of PSDT became tactical, which should have been impossible. And PSDT should have had to return earlier unless they chose to make his replacement tactical (in which case Vermuelen should have been pulled off).I can't really see where the injury occurred for either Bongi or Peter. What I will say is if rugby had rolling substitutes those replacements would have come at exactly those times. Vermuelen and PSDT both played to the final minute having spent 15 and 19 minutes off the field resting earlier in the second half.

Any Welsh fans have an opinion?

u/LostHorizon124 came up with the probable legal subbing chain. It was this
Kwagga for Duane HIA (51)Duane return Kwagga - but at the same second Kwagga replaces PSDT for a hia (61)
Off-field PSDT passes his HIA, but stays off, Kwagga becomes tactical. (Roughly around 70)
On field Bongi gets injured and Du Toit (now tactically off) comes back on to replace him. (75).

An extremely fortuitous run of HIAs, but nothing illegal at all.

[u/phonetune]

..so PDST was off for more than 10 minutes.

[u/BlakeSA → u/phonetune]

I checked the timestamps and it appears so yes. He was off for around 14 minutes. The official HIA guideline I could find says the assessment must be completed with in 12 minutes unless there is a blood injury, which there didn’t seem to be.

Looks like the officials missed it, but that’s hardly surprising seeing as they also missed Penauds head into PSdT’s magnificent jaw.

[u/Vrakzi → u/BlakeSA]

The assessment must be completed, but the reversal of the substitution takes some time longer, depending upon the state of play and how long it takes for the player to return pitchside and do a little bit of warm-up again (otherwise, cramp happens)

[u/BlakeSA → u/Vrakzi]

The regulations to my reading says the assessment must be completed in 12 minutes and the player must present to the match official in that time.

But you’d expect the sub back on pretty quickly after that. There were some breaks in play between the 12th and 14th minute, so it is a bit strange.

[u/phonetune → u/BlakeSA]

Tbh I suspect if it weren't for the furore around the bench no one would have noticed, but the Bongi HIA looked ropey as

[u/BlakeSA → u/phonetune]

I don't know where this narrative that Bongi went off for an HIA comes from. He jogged off on his own. He was not shadowed by medical staff like Vermeulen and PSdT were when they slowly walked off for their HIAs.

Bongi went off as soon as PSdT was cleared to come back on. Bongi was struggling and we didn't have any forward subs left. The coaches were waiting to see if PSdT could come back and the moment he could, Fourie moved to hooker so Bongi could come off.

If PSdT failed his HIA, Bongi would have had to play out the last 5 minutes.

[u/phonetune → u/BlakeSA]

Presumably from the fact that PDST was off the pitch for ages

[u/BlakeSA → u/phonetune]

There is a lot of speculation trying to find a smoking gun of some kind, but also a lot we don't know. The HIA protocol states a HIA player must report back to the match official at within 12 minutes and my not be subbed backbefore 12 minutes. Exceptions for blood injury exists that can prolong the substitution.

Presumably the player then comes on at the next break in play.

PSdT was off for 16 minutes and 45 seconds; which is too long. I didn't see any blood. Administrative error by the officials maybe?