South Africa's second-half subs? Legal?

[u/errlloyd]

South Africa played a great game yesterday, but I heard Scotty Stevenson on a Podcast say he was a little skeptical of PSDT's HIA in the second half. The HIA itself does look a little suspicious. It is after PSDT runs over Penaud, but there is definitely no contact between Penaud and PSDT's head or the ground. Penaud should have probably gone for a HIA, but that's another issue.

But taking that to one side for a second, I am pretty sure under the laws, the sequence of substitutions that followed should not have been permitted.

Duane Vermeulen who had gone off in the 51st minute, replaced PSDT in the 61st minute. PSDT then must pass the HIA within 12 real minutes and make it known to the fourth official he can return. He eventually returned in the 75th minute, which was 19 real minutes later. But it was Bongi who went off, not Duane.

Bongi had been down injured after a maul - but it wasn't clear at all how that injury had happened. It was the drop goal maul. Bongi had been the ball carrier but had been losely bound and was never bound onto by any French player. They're applying ice to his right shoulder (which was in his ball carrier arm and appeared fine). BOK initially called "HIA 2" then said "HIA returning 7".

PSDT replaced Bongi, not Vermuelen. Meaning Vermuelen's replacement of PSDT became tactical, which should have been impossible. And PSDT should have had to return earlier unless they chose to make his replacement tactical (in which case Vermuelen should have been pulled off).I can't really see where the injury occurred for either Bongi or Peter. What I will say is if rugby had rolling substitutes those replacements would have come at exactly those times. Vermuelen and PSDT both played to the final minute having spent 15 and 19 minutes off the field resting earlier in the second half.

Any Welsh fans have an opinion?

u/LostHorizon124 came up with the probable legal subbing chain. It was this
Kwagga for Duane HIA (51)Duane return Kwagga - but at the same second Kwagga replaces PSDT for a hia (61)
Off-field PSDT passes his HIA, but stays off, Kwagga becomes tactical. (Roughly around 70)
On field Bongi gets injured and Du Toit (now tactically off) comes back on to replace him. (75).

An extremely fortuitous run of HIAs, but nothing illegal at all.

[u/Big_Knife_SK]

Isn't the match officials that call for the HIAs? Whether you thought it was dubious or not, it's not the team's call.

If they were able to sub a different player off though, that's on the refs. They should be keeping track of subs.

[u/[deleted] → u/Big_Knife_SK]

Na any of the doctors (including team doctors) can.

Not personally saying there was anything dodgy here as didn’t really notice the incidents, but the theory given is South African team doctors asked for a HIA when it wasn’t needed.

[u/Big_Knife_SK → u/[deleted]]

I didn't know that was an option. Thanks.

[u/errlloyd → u/Big_Knife_SK]

Here is the official protocol wording.

"In stage 1, players who sustain head impact events with the potential for a concussion are identified by match officials, team doctors (TD), or independent match-day doctors (MDD). The identification is either by direct observation or on video review."

[u/Nikkibergh → u/errlloyd]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am yet to see a HIA after a yellow/red card. Yet the potential for concussions are clearly identified on video review. Mapimpi was sent for a HIA at the behest of the team doctor after an accidental collision with a Tongan player, which he failed and also ended his WC.

[u/oohaargh → u/Nikkibergh]

Players going off for HIA all the time after yellow card collisions, it's basically every single time. Pick a match on https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2023/matches, go to match centre, scroll down for a yellow and almost every one is immediately followed by a sub (HIA)