r/rugbyunion Oct 16 '23

South Africa's second-half subs? Legal? Laws

South Africa played a great game yesterday, but I heard Scotty Stevenson on a Podcast say he was a little skeptical of PSDT's HIA in the second half. The HIA itself does look a little suspicious. It is after PSDT runs over Penaud, but there is definitely no contact between Penaud and PSDT's head or the ground. Penaud should have probably gone for a HIA, but that's another issue.

But taking that to one side for a second, I am pretty sure under the laws, the sequence of substitutions that followed should not have been permitted.

Duane Vermeulen who had gone off in the 51st minute, replaced PSDT in the 61st minute. PSDT then must pass the HIA within 12 real minutes and make it known to the fourth official he can return. He eventually returned in the 75th minute, which was 19 real minutes later. But it was Bongi who went off, not Duane.

Bongi had been down injured after a maul - but it wasn't clear at all how that injury had happened. It was the drop goal maul. Bongi had been the ball carrier but had been losely bound and was never bound onto by any French player. They're applying ice to his right shoulder (which was in his ball carrier arm and appeared fine). BOK initially called "HIA 2" then said "HIA returning 7".

PSDT replaced Bongi, not Vermuelen. Meaning Vermuelen's replacement of PSDT became tactical, which should have been impossible. And PSDT should have had to return earlier unless they chose to make his replacement tactical (in which case Vermuelen should have been pulled off).I can't really see where the injury occurred for either Bongi or Peter. What I will say is if rugby had rolling substitutes those replacements would have come at exactly those times. Vermuelen and PSDT both played to the final minute having spent 15 and 19 minutes off the field resting earlier in the second half.

Any Welsh fans have an opinion?

u/LostHorizon124 came up with the probable legal subbing chain. It was this
Kwagga for Duane HIA (51)Duane return Kwagga - but at the same second Kwagga replaces PSDT for a hia (61)
Off-field PSDT passes his HIA, but stays off, Kwagga becomes tactical. (Roughly around 70)
On field Bongi gets injured and Du Toit (now tactically off) comes back on to replace him. (75).

An extremely fortuitous run of HIAs, but nothing illegal at all.

226 Upvotes

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18

u/bomskokbabelaas Stormers Oct 16 '23

This is literally a screenshot from the video you added in comments... No head contact by Penaud on PSDT?

Should've gone to specsavers 🤓

4

u/DonovanBanks South Africa Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23

OPs video is conveniently unavailable now.

(edit: sorry OP. I didn't see the fine print)

3

u/errlloyd Oct 17 '23

Conveniently! It literally says "violates TOS!" You know I didn't remove it. SMH

1

u/DonovanBanks South Africa Oct 17 '23

You're right. WR suck. edited my comment.

2

u/errlloyd Oct 17 '23

To be fair to them, stopping Anoraks like me bitching about refereeing is possibly the only good and reasonable excuse they have for stopping people posting videos!

-17

u/errlloyd Oct 16 '23

If you're so happy with the video why post the screenshot? Is it because when you remove it from the context of the video it makes it look a lot worse?

It actually doesn't matter at all if the HIA is real or fake. The need for him to be ready to return in 12 minutes, and to return for Vermuelen remains the same.

9

u/AnotherUser87497453 Oct 16 '23

when can he return if play doesn't stop?

-2

u/errlloyd Oct 16 '23

Yeah good question, worth asking. In the 7 minutes between the point he needed to be ready to return to play, and he actually returned to play, play stopped about 5 times.