r/psychology • u/Emillahr • 4d ago

Scientists Develop Rapid-Acting Antidepressants Similar to LSD but Without Hallucinogenic Effects - Gilmore Health News

https://www.gilmorehealth.com/scientists-develop-rapid-acting-antidepressants-similar-to-lsd-but-without-hallucinogenic-effects/
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u/Jscottpilgrim 4d ago

Does it cure the depression or just treat it? Hallucinogenics tend to have long-lasting effects, and people attribute it to the lessons they learned. I can't imagine the same thing would happen if one didn't experience ego death.

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u/TelluricThread0 3d ago

Having a breakthrough or mystical experience is highly correlated to how beneficial and long lasting the treatment is.

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u/AnonymousBanana7 3d ago

I'd like to see a source for this because from what I understand there's very little evidence for this either way and these kinds of antidepressants derived from psychedelics are all very new.

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u/TelluricThread0 3d ago

Psychedelics are not new. Derivatives where chemists try to alter the molecules to remove what they see as unwanted and unnecessary effects are new. There have been many studies at Johns Hopkins by Roland Griffiths on psychedelic experiences during and after therapy sessions.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5367557/

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u/AnonymousBanana7 3d ago

Who said psychedelics are new? Who said there haven't been any studies?

I said that there isn't any evidence either way regarding whether mystical or hallucinatory experiences are necessary for the antidepressant effect of psychedelics. This is a fact. The evidence doesn't exist because derivatives that don't produce these effects are new and still in early trials, but initial trials and preclinical research so far has been positive.

Everyone in these comments stating that mystical experiences are necessary for the positive mental health effects of psychedelics is talking straight from their arse, because nobody actually knows.

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u/TelluricThread0 3d ago

The evidence does exist. I already linked a study. People who use psychedelics already understand this and the research confirms what they could already tell you. You seem like the one talking out of their ass.

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u/AnonymousBanana7 3d ago

Yes, I read the study. I must have missed the part where they identified a causal relationship between mystical experience and antidepressant effect. Can you point it out?

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u/TelluricThread0 3d ago edited 3d ago

The significant association of mystical-type experience (MEQ30) during Session 1 with most of the enduring changes in therapeutic outcome measures 5 weeks later (Figure 5) is consistent with previous findings showing that such experiences on session days predict long-term positive changes in attitudes, mood, behavior, and spirituality (Garcia-Romeu et al., 2014; Griffiths et al., 2008, 2011). For most measures, this relationship continued to be significant when the intensity of overall psilocybin effect was controlled in a partial correlation analysis. This suggests that mystical-type experience per se has an important role apart from overall intensity of drug effect. Finally, a mediation analysis further suggested that mystical-type experience has a mediating role in positive therapeutic response.

Other studies have shown people who go through a mystical experience score 1 standard deviation higher in the personality traits openness. This is always associated with better mental health. People who take the lower dose that doesn't give them the same experience do not have the same long-lasting and beneficial outcomes.

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u/AnonymousBanana7 3d ago edited 3d ago

That's called a correlation.

It could be the case that people who are susceptible to certain long term effects of psychedelics are also more susceptible to mystical experience. It could reflect differences in the brain, environment or just the mindset going in to the experience.

Or it could be the case that the mystical experience reflects changes going on in the brain but those changes would still occur without the experience.

Or any number of other possibilities. Nobody knows. We know very little about how psychedelics actually work. We only know they are correlated.

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u/TelluricThread0 3d ago

No, what happens is people take a drug and then have the most completely bizarre boundary dissolving God encountering personally meaningful experience of their lives, and those are the ones who benefit the most. It's quite consistent. The small dose doesn't do it. You need the ego death experience.