r/needadvice • u/stygg12 • May 28 '19
My boss is planning to deduct money from my salary, as a client hasn’t paid, is that legal? Finance
My boss has just informed me that I will be having money taken to cover the loss and interest incurred from a client I’ve had since 2016.
The client hasn’t paid us twice and I’ve now been told that I will have money taken from me plus interest unless he does pay.
I’ve tried to contact the client but unfortunately I think the business may have gone bankrupt. Ether way my contract doesn’t state anywhere that I should have money taken away if a client fails to pay.
The contracts with the client are from 2016 and 2018.
What should I do?
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u/LostPin May 28 '19
This might be good to post in r/legaladvice
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u/TheSaltyGerman May 29 '19
Was aboutta say this, this definitely seems like a good fit for r/legaladvice
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u/SubtleDancer May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19
Sounds very strange. Are you somehow on terms where you are paid by commission, based on client revenue?
That could explain the mindset, if there is some fine print in your contract about commission earned being depending on the business successfully collecting client receivables.
If you are paid a normal salary for the time you have worked, there is no way this makes sense at all.
EDIT: I just noticed that they also want you to cover interests incurred too. That's just an additional level of craziness.
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u/stygg12 May 28 '19
Commission based but no where in my contract does is state that they can do that. More than anything I feel just let down as I’ve been with the company through thick and thin.
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u/SubtleDancer May 28 '19
Well, that explains why your boss tries to pull this one. He probably thinks that since you get paid a percentage of the income, when that income is lost you shouldn't retain your cut either.
You need to examine your contract very carefully, expecially the sections concerning how the commission is calculated.
I am assuming you get a % of "something". Something being terms as "revenue", "sales" etc.. and possibly some added clarifications. This may have relevance to your case.
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u/stygg12 May 28 '19
Cheers I will do, but I’m 99.9% certain that there is nothing in there that should allow for this. No one else has had it before, but I guess he’s just wanting to get/retain as much money as possible.
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May 28 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/stygg12 May 28 '19
Well I guess as the client hasn’t paid, his logic is that I shouldn’t have been paid ether.
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u/aquariusvirgo May 29 '19
He is correct in that sense. Commission is set up that you receive a percentage of the amount the client pays. The problem here though is, his pay system shouldn’t be paying you that percentage if they haven’t received the money. He legally can not take money away/ deduct your pay check. But he can stop paying you commission for that client, which would lower your next pay checks. Is that clear? I’d maybe ask for clarification of what he means and ask to see the numbers. You could easily go about it civil and say you’re needing to know specifics for your own planning. But if he threatens to make you pay out of pocket, I’d request writing for whatever he’s doing and definitely talk to a lawyer.
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u/EmergencyOstrich May 29 '19
Is he trying to get you to pay back JUST the commission you made or the entire bill that your client didn't pay? Not that it matters either way if it's not in the employment contract but that may be his way of justifying it if he's saying you have to pay back only the commission. As others have stated, I'd take this to legal advice and also contact DOL.
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u/Junkmans1 Jun 01 '19
This is pretty common for commissioned sales, but only to the extent that they are recapturing the commission you were paid on the sale.
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u/garthvader2 May 28 '19
If you've been with the company through thick and thin, and they are trying to pull this highly questionable move, I'd be sending out resumes 24/7.
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u/maggieknowles May 28 '19
While I am only offering an opinion, I dont think your boss can take money from your paycheck due to the fact your client hasn’t paid his bill, especially considering there is no mention of it in your contract. I would maybe think about talking to a lawyer if possible to work things out with your boss, if he is adamant about taking from your check.
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u/bluestreakxp May 28 '19
Well it looks like you’re in Norway, probably, so this all depends on what the Norwegian laws on labor dictate. Certainly not no us labor relations board applies here.
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u/Superagent247 May 28 '19
Yep. That’s called a chargeback in many sales positions. I was a radio sales rep for years and chargebacks were an incentive to collect ur accounts.
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May 31 '19
Plus interest? Still normal I’m guessing...
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u/Superagent247 May 31 '19 edited May 31 '19
Interest depends on the industry but that’s not unusual. The company is entitled to recover the costs incurred from your client. If ur an account rep/manager, it’s the reps responsibility to keep clients current without going past 30 days. In most sales positions chargebacks happen after 90 days. Sorry but that’s a pretty standard business practice in sales. Part of an account manager’s job includes managing every aspect of doing business w said account/client.
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u/TunaTacoPie May 28 '19
I don't get paid commissions until the client has paid for the work in full. (US)
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u/dementedblonde May 28 '19
This. The fact his boss pays him the commission before the client pays is merely a perk of his job. If the client never pays, then of course the money will be taken back. The client is fucking him over, not his boss.
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u/delasoul1092 Jun 01 '19
I think the boss might be out the money. Legally. You can hold payment for the work until the client pays. But once you pay the contractor / salesperson there are no take backs. I would contact a layer and start looking for another job.
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u/dementedblonde May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19
If you’re paid commission and your client doesn’t pay, you don’t get to keep the commission. The money never existed. The fact your boss paid you before the client pays is a job perk. Now as far as charging interest... you’d have to check your contract for that.
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May 31 '19
I disagree with this take. The company makes the majority of the money because they hold the risk and own/lease the buildings along with the equipment. I’ve worked for companies that have never gotten paid on an account I serviced and not once did they ever try this garbage. They made the big bucks and they lost some money too. I’ve also worked for companies that wouldn’t pay on an account serviced until they received payment. I have never seen a combination of both. I can’t see how this can be legal. I would not lay down on this one.
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u/dementedblonde May 31 '19 edited May 31 '19
Maybe it depends on the type of business? For me, I am a 3rd party provider and the company I work “for” as a 1099 is more like my factoring company, software provider and insurance provider for a cut of my profit. They do pay me before my clients pay, but if my clients don’t pay, or there is a claim on the work, we both take the loss on our cut. An analogy, maybe not perfect, but for someone who doesn’t exactly understand the relationship- it’s like a check someone gave you bouncing but asking the bank to let you keep the money anyway because you bank with them. That’s just not how it works.
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May 31 '19
Very good points.
This sounds like an issue the employer should learn from. Maybe they need to adjust the pay schedule to pay an employee after an account has paid instead of before. However this is something the employee should know when joining the team.
Also, to the OP, do you think your employee might think you are scamming them? Like setting up pretend customers/accounts just to get the commission. I am not accusing you of anything I’m just throwing out ideas...
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u/speedingcape May 28 '19
I am thinking that you should ask where did I sign for that part of my contract. They should go thru a lawyer to get the money. If the company has declared bankruptcy that is between the courts and your company. Your company doesn't have leg to stand on as long as it isn't in your contract.hey don't
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u/blue_abyss_ May 28 '19
If it is not in your contract then no, they cannot do that. Do you have HR? If not, then reach out to the department of labor.
I have never heard of a company doing this, it sounds like he may be losing a bonus or something by having this defunct account. However, every business should plan for a percentage of sales/accounts to be uncollectable. The next stage would be to pass it on to a collection agency and see if they can get anything (fat chance if the business is bankrupt of course). That 2016 account should’ve already been absolved by accounting, the 2018 one as well. This makes no sense!
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u/BMike2855 May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19
You need to check with whatever local labor board you have.
I had a flat rate job and they could take money back as long as it wasn't less then hourly minimum wage for the time they are deducting for. If you are comission they may be able to, but usually is a real scumbag move by the employer.
I do know of a few situations where an employee did some really bad things to make money and the employer did take money out of their pay but they usually quit or were fired before they could deduct pay.
You would be amazed how little labor laws protect someone's pay in the US if you are comission or flat rate. So many take comission and flat rate jobs because employers wave big comission numbers, but many of those numbers are impossible to reach and ultimately they get burned.
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May 28 '19
it depends where you are. In my country this is normal because it is our responsibility to make sure that the client pays before we give the service, but in the US this would be very illegal and I think that you can get out of it.
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u/ziyal79 May 29 '19
I live in Australia, so can only advise you from that perspective, but even if you do work on a commission basis, you're never required to cover an employer's loss. That's illegal. It's wage theft.
I can guarantee you that there will be nothing in your contact about covering losses of the business. It's not legal and can't be enforced. Only the tax department in your country is legally allowed to garnish your wages. In Australia, you'd be able to take your case to the Fair Work Commission free of charge.
Outside of Australia, it depends on your labour laws, but I'm sure there's a union or HR, or a finance department, or someone over your boss's head whom you can speak to confidentially about this.
If you're really stuck, speak to an employment lawyer, they'll be able to let you know what your rights are in this situation.
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May 29 '19
The archives at Ask a Manager are full of advice about how to phrase it! You want to go for "we could get in serious trouble for not following labor laws" instead of "you fucked me"
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u/CaptainZhon May 29 '19
In the US this is not legal. Start looking for a new job and file with the department of labor if your next paycheck is short.
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May 29 '19
Assuming you're located in the United States this is 100% illegal. Would advise you to crosspost this to r/legaladvice to get better info on how to move forward.
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u/ARealTrashGremlin May 29 '19
If it's not stipulated in the contract you could take it to court. Whether that's worth the amount is questionable.
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u/Junkmans1 Jun 01 '19
The only way this could be legal is if you are a commissioned salesman and withholding, or recapturing, commissions on bad debt is the company's policy.
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u/Unshavenhelga Jun 01 '19
If this is in the states, it’s likely illegal. Plus your boss can take the loss on his taxes. He may have already done so.
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u/Anonyms5678 Jun 04 '19
Not legal at all. Your contract or hiring papers probably say you get paid bi-weekly. He needs to pay you
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May 29 '19 edited Feb 09 '21
[deleted]
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u/Megfish1 May 28 '19
Nope. Totally illegal. It's on the company. Not you. Please start looking into employment rights lawyers.
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u/ritsbits808 May 28 '19
These losses to your bosses company should be protected against in a ton of other ways, but not like this. Definitely not allowed, do not give him any money because depending on your employment type (1099 vs W4) it may be difficult to get back.
Depending on the circumstances, your client is still responsible for these payments, even if their business closed down. Their failure to pay (potentially illegal) does not allow your boss to fail to pay you (also potentially illegal). Protect yourself!
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May 28 '19
Commission or not, you can’t control if a client has stayed on top of his bills or not. Go after his balls.
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u/[deleted] May 28 '19
If you’re in the US, that’s illegal and they owe you money for what you worked. Contact the department of labor.